concise and less emotional than me.
concise and less emotional than me.
I think you should read my post again, or stop twisting to your benefit. I never said I was going to cancel my seats. Considering it? Yes, but so that I can take advantage of what I suspect will be the more affordable option of buying tickets on the secondary market.
So if you think I'm less of a fan because I still plan on going to all of the home games, just not buying the tickets through the athletic department, then so be it.
And no, not because the team is bad... that's merely a factor. Maybe you shouldn't have stopped reading after I begged the question.
If you're honestly just looking for a more cost effective way to attend every single game, then I'll take back what I said because that's not what I inferred. Maybe it's because other posters who have made similar posts (like Mgrowold has about a dozen times) have said they won't be going at all, or only to a few games.
I also don't see this being much of a cost savings for you. Maybe short term, but still only maybe. As soon as we hit a year with MSU and OSU at home and we're good - you might be in big trouble.
You're one of those "have to have the last word" guys, aren't you?
And if I'm not mistaken you have let me know after each of my 12 posts on the topic how I must not be a "real fan" or words to that effect if am giving up my seats out of disgust at the product being put on the field.
From the warm of Southern California.
Well the good news is somebody is going to get four wonderful seats in Section 3 - Row 27 starting next year. The view is fantastic and other than the stupid 12 year old behind us who comments on every play our seat mates are great too. The guy to my immediate right played on the 65 Rose Bowl team and he is pretty upset too FWIW.
So if you and Brew Mom are on the waiting list you've just moved up four spots!
seats 17 and 18 in row A, Section 20. I like my location but could use 2 more.
at least he has passion for the game and he'll probably never give up his seat.
Definitely financial decisions excluded from my comments. I've considered letting mine go, because I actually go to So few games anymore. But my family in Michigan enjoys them and when I do go, I enjoy the people (same ones for 20+ years) around me.
I am just so cranky with these threads.
I will remove myself for a while again... This is too much.
So you're bitching about other fans givng up their tickets but then admt that you no longer go to many games? Ok.
follow the vocal minority out of the stadium...
buh bye. I need two more next year anyhow. never have one problem selling them for the past 25 years. Through the RR years. .never. one. problem.
You predicting a "collapse" is assinine.
I hate how this team is preforming. I'm pissed too.. but jesus, strong people and organizations go through adversity. This shit is ridiculous.
Nice. I was merely pointing out a possible scenario, hoping to generate a thoughtful discussion and hear what other fans think.
But, hey, I can trade personal insults and profanity with the best of them.
discussions are so profound and thought provoking. .. And unusual.
Bitching about bitching.
So instead of ignoring the thread since you have made it clear you're sick of the topic, you ... commented on it, and in a snide fashion. OK.
This just actually made me laugh out loud.
How do you not have a problem selling? I have 4, but can usually only use 2 at most due to kid's sports but I'm lucky to get $20 for the akrons, CMUs, Minnesota, etc.
That's just a simpleminded throwback at fans who want to or will give up their tickets. There are so many more things at play in 2014 than there were in 1975 or 1985. Ticket prices, the price for the right to buy the ticket, ridiculous start times every week, the marketing of the brand that now is commonplace in Ann Arbor, the wow factor, HDTV's, the product on the field isn't the same, the overall gameday experience isn't the same. Don't make it as simple that someone that gives up their season tickets isn't a fan, that's just garbage.
The continuing rise in prices can price people out of the ability to maintain their season tickets. It's already expensive as it is, especially if you have a block of four seats. My family had to give up our season tickets for the Blackhawks a few years back because we got priced out of it when seats went from $35 a game to $90 a game in less than 7 years. Now we go to 4 or 5 games a year as that's all we can afford to pay. As I'm in Chicago and not Michigan, it was never practical for me to get UM season tickets in the first place, but now that they keep raising the prices there's less motivation for me to ever get them for more than 1-2 games a year from Stubhub. So when some people cancel their season tickets, don't call them fair weather fans. They may just be broke instead.
I don't think "Mom" was talking about that situation. There is a big difference between getting pissed off about the coaching staff not living up to your expectations and simply not having the money. I think she was going after the boycotters, not those who are being price out.
Based on your comment and her comments further down on the thread I realize now that I had misunderstood her words and she was not calling out people priced out of the market.
I just wonder if DB will realize before it's too late that he's pricing longtime fans out of the market for season tickets, and stifling futher growth of the fanbase. I'm a 2nd gen alum and have every intent of my son being 3rd gen alum of our great university. But if the prices keep skyrocketing for tickets it'll be a long time before I can get him up to Ann Arbor to go to a game. When I make trips back to AA I don't typically go to the cupcakes, I like to see an actual game. Plus, with NW now in the other division for the Big Ten, it'll be a long time before he's able to see Michigan easily on the road. I'm already looking forward to the 2019 game @ UW, as he'll be almost 8 then.
I kinda touched on this above, but there's a difference between canceling them for financial reasons and for performance reasons. Based on the original post, it seems like that poster wouldn't be considering canceling his tickets if we were 8-1 right now. That's why the fair weather fan stuff comes in.
Not renewing and/or buying tickets from the athletic department is really the only way for fans to have their opinion voice heard from those that matter. I would argue those that are giving up their season tickets are a bigger fan than those who are afraid to (because they may not get them back).
I applaud the fans who are giving up their seats because they are unhappy with the direction of the program. If the Big House is full and DB is getting his attendance and advertising money why is there a reason to make a change?
DB is a businessman, and I believe the almighty dollar is the number one factor behind his decisions.
You can see this happening in other sports. Your point here
If the Big House is full and DB is getting his attendance and advertising money why is there a reason to make a change?
is spot on. You can see that happening with the Cubs for example. For decades under the ownership of the Chicago Tribune, there was zero incentive to field a winning team as the Trib viewed the team as a programming and advertising revenue generator for its TV affiliations with WGN and CLTV, because they filled 3 hours a day on the network 162 days a year. After the Trib sold the team to the Ricketts family, we finally got owners that realize you need to field a winning product, and finally the fans have realized it too as the attendance has finally started to drop as the team rebuilds and sucks worse than normal.
the PSD is tolerable - for now. Plus, we like the people who sit around us (no dicks), and it's a short walk from the gate where we enter the stadium. As bad as things seem now, the RR years were worse and we want to support the team. Obviously, things could change, but for now we'll continue to plunk down the money.
I got my permanent season tickets in 1996. I had just graduated law school and didn't have to wait on any list. You see, people didn't renew their tickes after the 1995 season that had a 9-4 record and features losses ot MSU and PSU. We got new people in the section after that season as folks found the 8-4 record of 1996 to be unacceptable. People thought that the new coach should be fired and didn't want to support what they felt was an unacceptable football team. A few months later, you couldn't get anything for a reasonable price and the waitlist was a mile long.
I would encourage you to think longterm. If you don't want to go, you can generally find someone to take the tickets off your hands. However, you keep them as your tickets.
If you are selling OSU tickets, please do the rest of us a favor and avoid stub hub. Sell (or give) them to Michigan fans so that we don't have 2009 all over again.
moving around an bargining every year, more power to you, go for it. But if you think you're going to want to be back when the team is really good (under this coach or the next) you might want to think about it. Now the whole attending events live thing is a decreasing problem across the board of all sports and events, so it may never really be a big problem again. But you should definitely be thinking about what you want to do not just next year, but years to come.
Me, them painting the seat numbers has made the two seats on my side to the end of the row one, and I don't think it's been sold half the time and is not a season ticket now. So I'll probably see if I can pick it up. Never had enough people regularly going that if I wanted a spare I couldn't find seats elsewhere, but starting a family I might like to take them down the line. And not wanting to leave the people I'm around in the Stadium, or pay the really big donation prices, I'm happy where I am. So this might be a one time opportunity to increase my allotment in my spot. So I'll use it for now to invite people I could never invite before till my kid gets older. Heck, even if it's empty and creates ass spaced that's better than the law firm that would give them away to opposing teams clients and make me sit next to them the whole game. Besides, if it's open that much, I can always do the MGoBlog "spend a game with M-Wolverine" giveaway.
For what it is worth, there is an FAQ for Preferred Seating Donations (HERE).
The final question is in regards to what will occur if you do not want to pay the PSD. The very carefully phrased answer is:
"As a donor and season ticket holder, you have the first right of refusal on your seats. We will work to accommodate any move into a lower PSD level or adjustment of seats on a case-by-case basis. We cannot guarantee that all requests will be granted. Please contact the Athletic Development department at 734.764.7131 for more information."
Please reach out here on mgoblog.
I paid $2650+ for 4 seats in Section 20 (around the goal line, ~40 rows up). Except for ND, this year, I couldn't sell an extra or a pair for anywhere close to face/paid/greater than $40 each. The dynamic model is selling tickets for less than I paid (Akron) including the PSD, and there were still thousands left prior to that game.
Anyone who thinks there's a waiting list, or hundreds/thousands of people/families interested in obtaining season tickets (replete with PSD payment), please, continue to keep that public face, insistent that my fandom is in question.
I have earned Fandom Endurance Merit badges over the years, paid PSD's, been a season ticket holder over 20 years. I have some number of Victors Club points that put me in the upper quartile/quintile of all Victors Club donors.
And yet...I'm being charged a premium price for an inferior product. I get the following:
HD screens with Dave Brandon, stupid costumed students and a few young kids, few actual replays (let alone game stats that are current to the action on the field)
Play calling that is average at best
Rawk music from dog groomers
Splashy videos telling me how my donations make life great for the rowing team, or womens field hockey
"New traditions" that don't take hold, in a sleazy, marketing-driven attempt to replace ACTUAL traditions.
How does all that make my Saturday great?
At the end of the day, I'll buy tickets on the spot market, either StubHub or some other avenue (mgoblog ticket spreadsheet), and spend the $2000 I save on Wings tickets or some other more satisfying endeavor.
See what I did there...still a fan, still supporting the team, my team. Just not getting fleeced by Dave Brandon and his band of henchmen. Thank you, no, I'll be happy to keep my money in my wallet for the next couple years until ticket prices normalize, and become more reasonable to the games actually being played on the field.
Amen. And thank you.
Seconded (or thirded). That post should get sent to Dave Brandon's office in a frame.
I've been reading of your increasing dismay in full agreement.
Gamedays aren't the same, and my patience/willingness to put up with the lameness is hitting my breaking point.
I'll continue to attend games, but not for $95+/seat fir each and every game.
You sound like a guy that is convinced that there is no way Michigan will ever miss a bowl game.
You left out the infantile sky writing messages over opponents stadia.
but larry makes some very good points. been a season guy for 33 years. now taking the children to the games and visiting with family down there the night before. the football is fun because we are a football-playing house so there's more interest than just the scoreboard. but the scoreboard sure has been bad lately, and that music is going to degrade my hearing and what little intelligence i have.
I am also going to suggest that real Michigan fans don't judge the voracity of other Michigan fans. WTF?
(see what I did there?)
Sorry to be grouchy, but as a third generation legacy, double-degreed alumnus, 42 year season ticket holder (football plus hockey), and current faculty, having my my fan-ness questioned makes me want to fucking smack someone. Aren't we all on the same side here?
You are. Some jerk (ahem) making a crack won't change it.
I do agree w the articulation of wolvinLA tho.
Things are gonna be better, even if they won't this year. They will.
hmmm let me guess: Ross?
If/when you give up your season tickets don't do so just by failing to turn in the form. Call development/victors club and tell them exactly what your grievances are and why you're giving up your tickets. The bottom line is clearly what matters to the ad, and when they see people are giving up their season tickets, the reason why will hopefully spur positive change.
3:30 games destroy the whole day unless one lives and dies for football. I'd like to get home before 9 or 10.
Seemed like in '11 we had almost all noon games, and the past couple years have been almost all 3:30 games. Is this a TV thing?
Yes, it's almost entirely a TV thing. By contract between ABC and the Big Ten, Michigan controls the game time of the homecoming game, but the rest of the schedule is essentially determined by ABC/ESPN with some input from the AD for night games. Brandon has essentially zero control whether a game (other than homecoming) is at noon or 3:30.
in the sense that it's the fans only real source of power in displaying their disapproval of unchecked ticket price increases.
i don't necessarily agree with any notion that boycotting season tickets shows a demonstration that you are not satisfied with the AD's performance in hiring coaches or the coaches' performance, or etc.
i do support the notion that this team is boring to watch, and has a high likelihood of being boring to watch next year, and paying ridiculous prices to watch a boring team play makes as much sense as running power into 8 defenders in the box.
i don't think that is being a fair weather fan, either. i went to every game while in college, and my freshman year coincided with RR's first year. the team sucked, and it sucked kinda, but we weren't boring to watch. denard made every game tolerable--there was something worth watching. this team is literally the most boring team i've ever watched. i still watch them and get depressed and etc. but i don't think you're a fair weather fan if you don't want to spend the money--even if it's not an issue of being outpriced by rising costs--to watch this team next year.
Whether individuals want to bail or not, I think that the sentiment is widespread.
Dave Brandon can, if he wants to, quietly sit back and say, "I'll sell the place out; uhappy season ticket holders can do what they want to..."
But he has to know that his patrons are not fools, and even if he has a big pool of people who want to see games, the numbers tell a bleak story; season tickets (which used to be the best bargain for spectator sports in the entire state of Michigan) are now a losing proposition.
You can clearly, easily, get tickets for any game that you desire, for less money, by not getting involved in season tickets with a PSD. The season ticket holders are getting a very bad deal compared to the market, and are subsidizing the athletic department in a very, very big way.
I don't know about the rest of you taxpayers, but my State of Michigan tax break for my PSD has gone to zero.
Next season will be the first one in several lifetimes when we have neither Michigan State nor Ohio State on the home slate of games. No Notre Dame.
This is a massive fail on the part of the Athletic Department. I haven't decided yet whether I will now give up on Michigan football. But I like the idea that those who are making that decision (a reasonable one, I think) are speaking out about it. If I could take a year off entirely, and get my current seats back in 2015, I'd do it.
I'd like to figure out what my tickets cost, and were worth, this year.
My PSD was $2400. My ticket subscription was something like $1875 (I don't have the renewal form handy; I'll correct it later if I can). Total = $4275.
I sold my Notre Dame tickets for $2000. I think I was very lucky to get that much for them. $4275 - $2000 = $2275.
My own rough estimate for market pricing for the rest of them are as follows. (Amounts are for four tickets, net; estimated net ticket prices in parentheses.) I haven't gone back to Stubhub to check on historical recores for actual sales for four seats together in an attractive row in Section One. These would be "quick sale" prices.
That works out to about $1600, recouped in sales, if I had blown off the entire season and sold all of my tickets. Which means I am losing money, just trying to resell all of them, even with the spectacular sale of the Notre Dame game for $2k.
It is a bad deal you are offering, Mr. Brandon. I am glad that you are advertising "Dynamic pricing," because it calls to attention what a Big House of cards you are building. It is not reflective of the marketplace. Your football season ticket holders -- your bread and butter -- are getting a rotten deal.
sell the ones I don't want to friends or people I know. You'll never recover the PSD cost. This isn't Bama or OSU. My family has had tickets in the stadium for 57 years. My brother gave his up three years ago and I am giving mine up after this season. Between the PSD, parking and the high cost of simply going and enjoying the day, it's not worth it.
I don't have to fight to keep my space everytime I sit down, I can go to the fridge during a timeout and not miss a thing, never wait in line for food, drink or the bathroom and I will save over $2,000. Can't beat it with a stick.
I'll go back when there is a game worth going to. The OSU game will be a beatdown and I won't put them on StubHub.
I have purchased six season tickets in the end zone for several years. I go to a couple of the bigger games and sell the rest. Usually I have been able to break about even. But now that is no longer the case. The donation and ticket costs have outstripped the value. This is probably for many reasons. I think younger people do not want to be anywhere their phones don't work. The stadium is a very uncomfortable place to sit for four hours especially as americans have gotten bigger, much bigger. The on field product is weak compared to 1969-2007. I wish the team well, and even Dave Brandon well as he competes in the big business world of college football. But I will contribute to the University in other ways than as a season ticket holder beginning in 2014. The stadium has become a playground for the well off. I'm not sure with the way the US economy is going that there will be 114,000 people well off enough and willing to fill the Big House going forward.
I'm in still. I save up during the year. I don't know why, I just am. Buying tickets is my one splurge.
I have to imagine there will be ample promotions to sell season ticket packages between now and next season. A crappy end to this year + a terrible home slate next year = lower demand. I would hold off and wait for a better deal. I think it's inevitable that the University caves a bit
Same thing happened in 2009 coming off of the 3-9 year. We bought tickets to the PSU game that year direct from the athletic department, they were in row 30 and right on the 25 yard line, so clearly they were someone's former season tickets. I'm sure the AD will be running a lot of promotions for tickets to next year's awful slate of games, but the only one I plan on getting tickets to is @ ND as long as I can find them for <$300 a seat.