PSA: 5 P5 teams have better record than Harbaugh @ Michigan

Submitted by huntmich on
I've mentioned this in a couple threads already but I feel it needs broader distribution. 20-6 is good enough for sixth best record in the P5 over the last two years. 3 of the 5 teams with better records were playing in the playoffs this year. This was with the same squad that went 5-7 and didn't go bowling in 2014. For all of you giving Harbaugh mediocre grades for his short tenure thus far, please keep in mind what has already been accomplished by this coaching staff essentially immediately. http://www.sportingnews.com/ncaa-football/news/michigan-florida-state-o…

Muttley

January 1st, 2017 at 3:25 PM ^

They know it's too soon to trot out the Fire Harbaugh threads, but give it time.  At present they just say "Harbaugh needs to be held 'accountable'."

It's what they do.

allintime23

January 1st, 2017 at 3:23 PM ^

Anyone complaining is out of their mind. Look at the quarterbacks he's had, not to mention the offensive line he inherited. Every day that he's here this program is getting better and I'll say it again, this team will compete for a conference title and playoff spot again next year.




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Erik_in_Dayton

January 1st, 2017 at 3:26 PM ^

OSU went 51-15 in the five years before Meyer took over. Seven of those losses came in 2011, when self-inflicted wounds sunk their season...Harbaugh inherited a program that had gone 38-25 over the previous five seasons. Harbaugh is more than halfway to those 38 wins after only two seasons.

Yessir

January 1st, 2017 at 3:31 PM ^

0-2 against our rivals the first year. 1-1 this year with an OT loss.  Theres no doubt we are heading in the right direction. 1 of our rivals will be in the rear view mirror for years to come.  If we out recruit them in our state, how are they going to have the talent to compete? 

It might sound negavite to some but I can't wait for him to have the guys he recruited fill the roster.  I remember McShay saing that at SOTS and Coach politely corrected him saying all these guys are our guys.  But I can't help myself thinking things will be even better in another year or 2. 

Go Blue!

In reply to by Yessir

Gucci Mane

January 1st, 2017 at 4:41 PM ^

Harbuagh could very easily be 3-1 vs. our rivals. If that was the case things would feel a little different. The problem some people have is they already view Michigan as elite again. Their are a lot of fans who think it's national championship or bust IN YEAR TWO ! That says a lot about how wildly successful Harbuagh had been imo.

BroadneckBlue21

January 1st, 2017 at 11:01 PM ^

And those same fans are unwilling to give Harbaugh the credit for making UM elite again. They are stupid, quite bluntly. If they played or watched enough football, they'd understand how even th greatest coaches made mistakes during big games and didn't win them all or even win quickly. Millennials, perhaps, who don't understand how hard one must work to be great. Or just selfish dumbasses who get mad because their team isn't Bama status right away.

Outside of the 97 championship team and the 2007 team, these past two years were two of the best in the last 25 years, since Wheatley and Howard graced us with their talents. Why? Because we were crawling out off a seven year crater.

MichiganMan20

January 1st, 2017 at 3:27 PM ^

Tremendous improvement in just 2 years. Though this season was disappointing, I never thought we were the best team in the country so not winning a national championship isn't a huge surprise. We will compete at the highest level under Harbaugh, it's only a matter of time.




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robertkuss

January 1st, 2017 at 3:28 PM ^

Sporting News dumb as hell

Name 5 schools out of all of college football , wow what percentage is that ?

alabama -Great Team

clemson -Good Team , see you next year when watson gone.

ohio st-they looked great , getting rolled . overated

oklahoma-crap team -crap conference

stanford-they stink now , on the downfall , wait till next year . 

 

and all the others? 

where are they ? 

 

McSomething

January 1st, 2017 at 3:37 PM ^

The day and night improvement in such a short timeframe is impressive. No, the team is not where we want it just yet, but getting it there at this point was practically impossible. The teams that are ahead of us still had a several year head start, and yet the gap has already closed considerably.

SeattleWolverine

January 1st, 2017 at 3:39 PM ^

Why is so hard for people to acknowledge that the program is on a positive overall trajectory, but also that the way this year ended was a significant missed opportunity? Both are true. Coaching is way better, recruiting is back to top 10 classes, culture has been fixed, off the field is fine.

 

But also, if you've been following Michigan football for decades, you know that there are ebbs and flows with talent, seniority and schedule. And that you have to seize on those years that come along every 3 or 5 or 10 years when you have the opportunity. This team was good, extremely experienced and talented enough. No, probably not good enough to beat Alabama, that's not realistic. But good enough to win the B1G and make the playoff. Sometimes it doesn't work out...and it's quite reasonable to be disappointed when that happens. So just let some people be disappointed and you can be content with 10-3 and it's all good. 

 

 

huntmich

January 1st, 2017 at 4:10 PM ^

We are both seeing different sides of the same coin. I made this post because it is very easy to forget how impressive the monumental task of righting the Michigan football ship has been. In 2014, there was no reason to think this team would compete for anything. Harbaugh saw the talent and developed it immediately, turning them into B1G contenders in a single season.

Yes, I have a beef with some playcalling. But that has been the case with every coaching staff in the modern era. It is also the case with other elite programs. See MSU v OSU 2015, for example.

In regards to the 'striking while the iron is hot' mentality, there is no reason to think that our recruiting prowess will follow the ebbs and flows of previous staffs, which resulted in 1 special opportunity every 3-5 years. Harbaugh has shown an ability to connect with recruits in ways that his predecessors did not, and he is following it up with results on the field. I think it is safe to expect top 5 classes from this staff for the foreseeable future. In such a case, the loaded 2016 team becomes the norm, not the exception.

This season started with promise and ended with disappointment. I just wanted to put our journey in some relative context.

snarling wolverine

January 1st, 2017 at 5:46 PM ^

I agree that this year ended up being a missed opportunity, in the sense that we could have easily won every game on the schedule.  But I disagree that this year represented some incredible combination of talent and schedule.  We had to play the rivalry games on the road, as well as at Iowa, a historically tough place to play.  And while we had a superb defense, our offense featured a lot of middling talents, outside of Jake Butt.  The OL was shaky and the skill-position guys (Speight, Smith, Darboh, Chesson) were OK but not really game-breakers.  We'll likely have improved talent in the future.

I also disagree with the notion that we'll only have an elite team once every several years.  The way we are recruiting, it's going to happen more often than that.

SeattleWolverine

January 1st, 2017 at 6:23 PM ^

There are gonna be cycles no matter how talented you are. Usually they parallel QB cycles but sometimes just with overall senior talent. Clemson will have to re-group without Watson, as FSU had to do without Winston. Sometimes you can clearly see it coming, like when we lost everyone on the offense after 2007 or 2000 etc. 

 

Our recruiting is fine but not a juggernaut and it's no better, probably slightly worse than what it was from the mid-80s to mid-00s. We still went through the period down years eg 1984, 1987, 1993, etc (not coincidentally, those were the years right after Smith, Harbaugh and Grbac graduated). Maybe our coaching will be better, but definitely premature to say that at this point. 

 

Now, on occasion, you get a little lucky and exceed your cycle. OSU, which is probably the 2nd most talented program in the country, was in a rebuilding year this year but managed to scrape out close wins over us, MSU and NW or this could have easily have been an 8-5 or 9-4 season for them. Occasionally you can buck the trend with a little bit of luck but generally not how it works even for the most talented schools. Or maybe you do a little worse if your QB gets injured etc. Alabama right now is more or less the exception to the rule. Even like an Alabama, they are basically having to make up for QB weakness/inexperience with a superlative D. Most schools can't cover up a big weakness like that, we couldn't with OL. But Alabama is pretty much at a Manifest College Football Destiny level at this point as they prove Crimson Tide exceptionalism. Fuckers. 

snarling wolverine

January 1st, 2017 at 9:35 PM ^

Experience doesn't hurt, but it's not necessarily the difference-maker fans think it is.  Here are this year's four playoff teams, ranked by senior contributors (out of 128) by Phil Steele:

Washington - 42

Clemson - 101

Alabama - 116

OSU - 128

Incidentally, Washington only had four senior starters per Steele, so I don't know why they are even ranked that highly.

The bigger issue is having enough talent, and that shouldn't be a concern for us going forward.

 

bcnihao

January 1st, 2017 at 6:18 PM ^

I agree with the points you made.  And I disagree with the Jed York-ish sorts of comments that some posters have made about Harbaugh (and the players) when disappointment set in.  That shouldn't be hard to understand.  Just like, one could be (and should have been) disappointed with the final play of the 2015 MSU game, without voicing extreme and personal insults about O'Neil who had one bad play in that game.

BroadneckBlue21

January 1st, 2017 at 11:08 PM ^

I was disappointed, because I thought we could be in next week's game from before the season. However, there is disappointment and the outright whiny bull that insults how great Harbaugh has been simply because of the quickly inflated expectations. Yeah, we could have seized more, but the trash talk from fans after the loss--and even during the first half--those people don't deserve respect. My team is getting beat: Harbaugh sucks. That line of thinking needs to be heavily criticized because that line of thinking has no validity--just pure emotionallack of thought from self-centered people.

bacon

January 1st, 2017 at 3:39 PM ^

Harbaugh is a great coach. I'm not sure who is complaining, but it doesn't bother me personally. Harbaugh himself probably wouldn't gove himself a good grade. He expects excellence and doesn't settle for less.

Hard-Baughlls

January 1st, 2017 at 3:46 PM ^

And the fanbase needs to have some patience and perspective.  No, Harbaugh is not God and not without flaw, but he is an elite coach and turned this ship around completely in 2 years.

Even more impressive...when have we actually been blown off the field?  Once, is all I can remember...last year's OSU game where we had D-line injuries exploited, and frankly, they had an all time team of upperclass NFL talent.

Just think about this, and now add in a dominant Harbaugh O-line that can close games out with a power running game...

5 of the 6 losses...

1) to Utah by 1 score in Ruddock's debut in which he missed 3 sure TD's downfield

2) The MSU fluke last play punt

3) 1 point road loss at Iowa (IMO, this was the most disappointing loss of the Harbaugh tenure-one we blew)

4) The OSU officiating debacle, double OT bs loss

5) An epic game where we came back with great heart against a solid FSU squad.

So, yes, we've been on the short end of some heartbreakers, but this team is already competing at a very high level, and is 1 or 2 recruiting classes away from finishing off those types of games and competing with Bama.

 

snarling wolverine

January 1st, 2017 at 5:51 PM ^

I would agree with all that and just add that our most disappointing loss (Iowa) came to an 8-4 team on the road, at night.  We should have won but it wasn't necessarily the complete shock result it has been portrayed as.

 

UrbanLovesMacaque

January 1st, 2017 at 3:52 PM ^

5 points from being undefeated?  I'll take it even if the losses were very disappointing.  And a muffed punt leading to another loss last year.  Could be 24-2.  Sure, "coulda woulda shoulda" but there's only been 1 game where Michigan has been clearly outplayed so far.  Can't wait for a full roster of Harbaugh's recruits and some QB consistency.  The future is bright and I wouldn't want any other coach for this team.

BlueMan80

January 1st, 2017 at 3:54 PM ^

I do remind myself that two 10 wins seasons in a row is pretty good. It's been done with players he inherited. He's going to get his chosen QB on the field soon. That is going to be great. Vector is point up.

DonAZ

January 1st, 2017 at 4:03 PM ^

I've been thinking about this topic for a little while now ... what programs truly are in a good position, what programs are on the fence, what programs are receding, and which are just tire fires.

Alabama is clearly the cream of the crop.  They're a win factory at this point.

Ohio State, despite their loss yesterday, is in a very good spot.

Clemson probably is, depending on how they transition after Watson.  Dabo Swinney is doing a great job there attracting talent.

Florida State -- they'll compete each year.  Fisher is a good coach.

Washington -- as long as Petersen is there, they're the new Oregon in the Pac-12.

Michigan -- I'd rank them with FSU and Washington ... challengers to Alabama regency.  Not yet there, but working towards it.

Florida -- I'm not so sure McElwain is the guy.  Maybe, but the jury is out in my mind.

LSU -- Good, but not great; will live in Alabama's shadow.

Georgia -- will play second fiddle to Florida, Alabama.

Miami (YTM) -- I like Richt, he'll do okay, but won't challenge for the top.

Texas -- Herman is a good hire, but he's got a mess on his hands.  We'll see.

Oklahoma -- I sense Stoops is a spent force.  10-2 ceiling in a poor conference.

USC -- no shortage of talent, but man what a mess that program has been.

Stanford -- Will dwindle.

Notre Dame -- They seem to be drifting aimlessly.  I see chaos in their future.

Michigan State -- Done.

Wisconsin -- Meh ... B1G west but who cares.

Nebraska -- May compete for B1G west occasionally, but otherwise they're done.

Beyond that ... a bunch of programs that may occasionally do okay, but their trend lines simply does not project solidly.

We are back

January 1st, 2017 at 4:11 PM ^

Last season everyone said 8 wins would be great, this season it was 9 1/2 would be great. We are exceeded expectations both years and the Michigan fan base feels like it's CFB playoffs or bust. That's how you know we are back!!




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CoverZero

January 1st, 2017 at 4:21 PM ^

Pros:  Harbaugh has done wonders turning the program around from recruiting, perception, talent development, brand marketing and value and general play on the field.

He also runs a clean program with integrity...and can be fun to watch as well.

Cons: Harbaugh still has a way to go in terms of his in-game coaching decisions.  In critical games, there has been a stubborness to stick with certain offensive players (RBs) and plays which repeatedly failed, and were very poor calls/strategies in those particular situations (MSU punt formation last season, Iowa offense, OSU offensive calls, FSU offensive calls in the red zone, this season).  At other times, the team has come out flat and unfocused in games where one would think that they would be sky high. 

He maximizes the players abilities overall, but could do a better job of putting the offensive players in a better position to succeed during games.

 

huntmich

January 1st, 2017 at 4:26 PM ^

As I said, the offensive playcalling was an issue with Hoke, RR, Carr, etc, as far back as I have been watching Michigan football. It is also not something that is isolated to Michigan. Alabama has bad offensive games with poor playcalling. OSU has bad offensive games with poor playcalling. It is an area of improvement.

Don

January 2nd, 2017 at 8:41 AM ^

There was plenty of bitching about Schembechler's playcalling during the '70s when we were losing games to OSU in the early part of the decade as well as in all the bowl games we were losing.

And a good portion of the criticism had merit, too—Bo was never an offensive innovator, and believe me, there were plenty of games in Michigan Stadium where I and the fans near me could predict play calls in advance with alarming accuracy.

Leonhall

January 1st, 2017 at 4:25 PM ^

Oklahoma is done competing for titles for the time being. USC will be back; Texas will be back. I even see Miami becoming better. Like someone said yesterday; Harbaugh got us from a tire fire to solid; that happens quite a bit to blue blood programs. What is more difficult is now going from what we are now to elite.




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SeattleWolverine

January 2nd, 2017 at 12:13 AM ^

Why is Oklahoma done? I mean, yeah, they have a little bit of that later in the tenure feel w/o that cutting edge from when Stoops started, not like how they were in 2000 or 2003 or whatever. Their offense is not as unique as it was when Stoops started. But they were in the CFP just last year, they still won their conference this year, have top 10 recruiting class consistently, and are in what is clearly the weakest of the Power 5 conferences. 

 

Texas has massive potential but is is going to take a while to rebuild that program, and their boosters are prone to messing it up due to impatience.