Like the article states there is absolutely nothing stopping them from going back on their word, but we'll have to see. Found it interesting to say the least.
Like the article states there is absolutely nothing stopping them from going back on their word, but we'll have to see. Found it interesting to say the least.
theres a chance if they left it would be to a lockout...i dont see a reason to leave unless an agreement is reached
...But none of them would GET 1st round draft pick. The only person on the face of the earth that thinks Pryor's a first round pick is Pryor
Man I hope you're right about that.
and after that is capped osu will have a plethora of 5th year seniors
Are they really sorry that they did this, or are they just sorry that they got caught? My money is that they are just sorry that they got caught. I didn't think Pryor sounded very sincere or remorseful.
It doesn't matter.
I still want to beat them
Sent From TWoolf on the 23rd. He was notified of the suspensions (#2 and #3) and his response is #1!!!
He is hungry. Can't wait to see him back!!!
Tressell must have made them an offer they could not refuse.
Or they just decided they wanted another pair of gold pants to sell.
You forgot bitters in your Manhattan
I always had respect for Tressel because he had shown what look liked intregrity while he has coached in Columbus. It's apparent that I was unequivocally wrong and osu is the cesspool everyone has said it is.
I'm curious about why you think this reflects poorly on Jim Tressel. Care to explain?
I'm not one to insult anyone's intelligence so thank you for doing it for me.
I'm actually curious. I totally understand if you just want to go with blind derision of a rival - that's cool. But don't pretend that you have an argument and try to skirt explaining it if you don't.
You aren't understanding so I'll explain (not meant as a dig). As a Michigan fan I don't like OSU. Hate is too strong for anything in life so there is no hate from me. I have always admired Tressel because he seemed to care about his players on a level outside of football. To expand on that an example, although not him, is how I saw Tressel.
For the OSU game Rich held Hagerup out of the game and he wasn't even allowed to travel with the team. This shows that Rich has extremely high integrity and cares for his players outside of football. Teaching Hagerup that football is secondary to following the rules is a tremendous effort to show that he cares about his players more than football players and wants them to become moral men. This is how I viewed Tressel.
To have the NCAA suspend five players for the first five games for breaking the rules it is easy to see that this is a serious infraction. If Jim had any integrity whatsoever he would suspend those players for the Sugar Bowl as well. Although it is not on the level of Dantonio it is still an action which shows that football is more important than development from boys to men in the eyes of Jim.
I see your point of view, and I think I understand where you're coming from. This is my point of view:
Jim Tressel has one of two options: he can play the guys or he can sit them. Now, if he decides to sit the guys then, in effect, they are serving a one game suspension because most of them will just go pro, completely circumventing the NCAA's ruling. There are obviously pros and cons to this; as you say, it shows the players that the coach will take steps to punish players. However, it also shows that the NCAA has, esentially, no power to punish players who break the rules. Now, there is also the matter of whose rules were broken here. Certainly any NCAA rule should be considered a team rule - that essentially goes without saying. On the other hand, it's a steep argument to make that the players did something that hurt themselves or the team or...well, anybody. Personally, I'm don't think that the players should be allowed to play in the bowl game, but it's my opinion that the NCAA should suspend them for the game - not the team. Why? Well, because they haven't done anything to hurt the team. They broke an NCAA rule. The NCAA should have the spine to enforce their own rules. It's not Jim Tressel's responsibility to enforce the NCAA's rules in lieu of the NCAA doing their job.
That's why I think that this is the best compromise that he can make. Assuming that the players keep their promise (big assumption, of course) then he's doing a couple of things. He's telling the players that they have to pay the price for breaking the rules (by forcing them to take their NCAA medicine) and he's not usurping (or supplanting, whichever you prefer) the NCAA's authority to enforce their own rules. Now, I totally understand that some people would see this as a circuitous, self serving route to getting the guys to play in the game. I would, however, point of that I'm actually in favor of the NCAA suspending the guys. I do not, however, think that the team has any duty to do what the NCAA refuses to do - especially when this rule is arguably unethical and illogical (although that's another discussion). So I think that Tressel is making a reasonable compromise (again, assuming the guys actually honor their promise).
So I'm not going to argue that you're wrong or anything. Opinions are inherently subjective. I do, however, think that there are good arguments to be made on both sides.
I believe that the players did hurt the team and also the University. Suspensions for what should be 38% of the 2011 season from starters will most definitely hurt the team. However, I don't agree with the rule but it is a rule and has to be followed. A statement that was made above is a certain possibility and would negate this quid pro quo between Tressel and the aforementioned players. That can be broken quite easily and this would set a precedent for juniors to were they could break NCAA rules if they had decided to go pro and forgo their senior season.
FWIW, Chris Spielman thinks that JT will suspend those players for the Sugar Bowl. He mentioned he has done that in that past bowl game. He went to say that JT will not make an announcement and probably suspend them or not allow them to start.
I would say his failure to promote an atmosphere of compliance.
Just out of curiousity, if he had sat the guys for the bowl would you say anything different? Bear in mind that I already know the answer to this question.
No. I wouldn't. Just because he hypothetically sat them for the bowl game doesn't mean all of a sudden an atmosphere of compliance was met. Not unless Pryor sold an award for a time machine.
So, if I understand you correctly, you are not actually responding to my question about why asking the guys to return and, you know, actually serve the suspension reflects poorly on Jim Tressel. You're just reiterating the talking point that you've been trying to bait me with for the past week. Well, I guess everybody needs a hobby.
We have yet to see if they do return. Don't count your chickens until they hatch. Pyror might go to the draft. He and the others could make big money for their families. Isn't that why they sold their awards in the first place? I am saying this infraction reflects poorly on Tressell because of a failure to promote an atmosphere of compliance. If he is cleared by the NCAA then I am wrong, but they should at least investigate it. From his and the AD's own mouth, they admitted not informing the players enough about the rules about selling items such as the ones they sold. That sounds like a tacit admission of failure to promote an atmosphere to comply, hence it reflects poorly for the job Tressell is supposed to do. Be a responsible coach.
Yes. Suspension comes down from the ncaa, what is said to the players. I could understand the 5 games for next year being sufficient penalty if this happened this summer. This happened 2 years ago. The investigation is done. Suspensions should begin immediately. This is a farce perpetrated by the ncaa and upheld by osu. Tressel turns out to be similar to his buddy, St Mark.
Dantonio's actions are much more severe than Tressels because one team had players commit violent crimes followed by one of the perpetrators getting behind the wheel impaired while all the osu players did was sell a couple of the awards they had won. Dantonio will always be in a league of his own.
Tressel and Smith were very clear that these kids sold things to provide for their poor families in these tough economic times. Now Tressel is denying them a chance to earn a decent living by requiring them to come back to school for another year in exchange for playing time in a bowl game. That's just heartless, man.
I thought he guaranteed a lifetime supply of lint rollers.
Personally I am happy they're coming back because I want to beat the Bucks with Pryor as their QB more than anything...especially in his senior season.
Of course the players were willing to give Tressel their word. Their word has no resale value, and cannot be traded for a tattoo.
Funny how OSU's AD said the items were being sold due to financial hardships being faced by their families....wouldn't going pro really help these "hardships"?
Also the NCAA and OSU keep stating that the players did not have proper education on these rules when the items were sold. They sold 2008 championship rings. When did did become "educated" to these rules, why wasn't it brought to the NCAA's attention then and not when the tattoo parlor got raided. Hopefully the NCAA is doing alot of interviewing with Thaddeus Gibson.
I would like to see the families' bank statements to verify the money went to the families.
Per 11 Warriors, Tressel said that if these kids hadn't committed to return next season, they wouldn't have made the trip to New Orleans. So, a group who sold their trinkets to a tattoo parlor and lied about it to the NCAA has now given "their word" to the Vest. Sounds like a way for both sides to save face. I'd be willing to put good money that at least two see their "situation change" after the game and opt for the NFL draft. Just more PR and handling out of Fort Tressel...
Jim Tressel says the players facing five-game suspensions next season would not have traveled with the team to the Sugar Bowl if they had not pledged to return in 2011.
Well, I'm glad Tressel got Pryor to promise. I'm sure he's a man of his word, especially since these guys could be playing their last game for draft status above anything else.
How can anyone possibly trust these players right after they sold their football souls for a few bucks?
I can just hear it now: "everybody lies..."
Ehh, trust has nothing to do with selling their trinkets. If they lied about it when asked, then sure, but they didn't lie about it. When asked they all admitted they sold their things.
The fifth game of the suspension was for lying to the NCAA when initially asked about selling their trinkets. AJ Green was suspended for four games for selling a jersey, but he was truthful with the NCAA when came knocking. This "pledge" has everything to do with saving face and nothing to do with whether the players are coming back next year.
5th game was for waiting so long to tell anyone, not for lying. Maybe you can spin this into a lie of omission, if that makes you feel better.
You know, my friend has been making that sound as a joke for months now and it's been bugging the crap out of me from where it is from, thank you.
You don't know the story I guess.
There's a sidebar to this story that I found interesting. When either four or five OSU guys submitted their draft-rating paperwork, the OSU press (the Dispatch, the OSU blogs) immediately set to work, analyzing the story, quickly determing that only one of the guys was a likely draftee, etc. Just basic, solid reporting.
Now, when Mike Martin of Michigan does the same thing, the Free Press, in a Mark Snyder story, does a quick few paragraphs that make it sound as though Martin has essentially delcared for the draft. And leaving the reader to think that Martin was leaving the program as soon as the Gator Bowl game was over. Supplying none of the other cautionary information as to what the draft paper work actually signifies. Naturally, MGoBlog's readership essentially reported the story better, on a message board, than the Free Press' Michigan beat-writer did, in a published story.
I just think it's great that he made them promise to come back if he let them play. I heard Spielman last night during whatever bowl game was on, say he thought Tressell would bench them and not let them play. But I guess that was before he made them that offer!! Great guy
If they pledge to come back, the NCAA should give them PLEDGE PINS, and then sell replicas, they could make a small fortune.
It is now being reported (Mark May, ESPN) that this info has been known for over a year. Just a coincidence that the "punishment" comes down to be osu's 5 least important games.
If it looks like a rat and smells like a rat and scurrries like a rat -- it's a rat!
Link? I skeptical, since Mark May has never reported anything about anything in his entire life. He's not a journalist or reporter, he's an "analyst" - which apparently means that it is his job to go on TV and stir up shit with his "expert" opinion.
He said it during halftime of the bowl games yesterday.
But, here's some more info.
Oh, I misinterpreted what you said. I thought you meant that OSU had known about the sale for over a year (and that doesn't appear to be the case). The players knew about the violation - and that was already out there in the public domain. I mean, that's the reason why they got a 5 game rather than just a 4 game suspension. Maybe Mark May reported that wrong, I dunno. It wouldn't surprise me, since he's basically a worthless asshole.
Last night during the Baylor game the commentators were debating whether Tressel will play the 5 players who are suspended to start the season. Their reasons were as follows:
1. Send a message to the team that he will not stand for similar actions... COUGH yea right COUCH!
2. Hopes that the NCAA sees this and in return lessens the suspension to something like 3 games, in time for Big 10 play.
What are the chances this actually happens?
...when I see it.
Before this news, I still thought highly of Jim Tressel and did not believe that there was anything he did that led to the players' selling their trinkets or anything he could have did to prevent this.
But to me this is a dick move. I get that many argue that Tressel is a man of intergrety for making sure they are punished for their actions by sitting them out of the Sugar Bowl if they didn't plan on coming back.
But am I only the one who thinks it wrong to make these kids make a decision when media/fans have been calling them selfish, only to tell Tressel they weren't coming back and disappointing their teammates again as they wouldn't be able to play in the Sugar Bowl.
To me, this was a selfish act by Tressel. Sure you can say that they Tressel didn't pressure them in anyway. But for anybody who has ever been on a team or in the military, will tell that the worst thing to do is disappoint your teammates.
In the end, these kids should be making their draft decision for themselves, which I don't think happen.
That's just comical. What choice do they have?
"Coach, I'm thinking of leaving for the NFL, because after you establish other players in my position during my suspension, I won't have nearly the production I had this year and my stock will only go down."
"Well then son, I'm going to keep you out of the last hallmark game of the season so you don't have the chance to show your stuff again on a national level."
"Ok coach, I'll come back"
come around speaking dollars.
This puts the appeal front and center. If it's anything more than 2 gms. (maybe 3 tops) it's not worth it for TP to stay.
Let's see...the OSU AD said the young men sold the items to help their families through a financial hardship, but now the young men are pledging to forego the upcoming NFL draft to return to college next year! Hmmm...on one hand their families are having a financial hardship - and on the other hand the the players are foregoing the instant millions from the NFL draft? This just doesn't add up. Seems to me the statements by the players are making their AD look less than honest here, or should I assume their families are no long experiencing financial difficulty? It really doesn't matter to me if they stay or go as I am totally consumed in keeping up with Michigan business, it's just that I know the difference between cool rain and warm piss.
What they are really saying:
"The only way to get the media off of our backs is to say that we are coming back, but we are lying to you because the AD wants us to. Most of us have already talked to agents, and none of us plan on actually setting foot in a classroom again, or even having our "tutors" do it for us. We are gone as soon as that plane lands back in Columbus."
He can say he did his best to make sure they were punished. He has an excuse not to sit them for the Sugar bowl (even for say the first quarter)....
The players are the losers on this deal because going back on their "pledge" would be a slap to Tressel and the program. Thus their character would further be called into question and lower their draft stock.
Thus, Tressel puts added pressure to force them to return.
I'm glad Pryor's coming back. He sold the gold pants. Ever heard of karma. We'll get em next year. GO BLUE
Yeah I'll believe that. Everybody steals, everybody kills, I'll stick around to play half the season next year. What a crock of shit. I hate Terrelle Pryor.
pryor has no future in the nfl. bust written all over him
You gotta be a first round pick to be a bust. His best shot at NFL success is a mid-round pick to a team with an established QB to learn from (Manning, Brady, Roethlisberger, etc.), not as a first round franchise saver.