This team has a positive vibe hopefully this game was fluke well find out next week at uconn
Post Game video from Angelique (Lewan, Gardner, Hoke)
no fluke...we played like shit from beginning to end
as in this level of performance is a rare occurence, which is likely to be the case.
We have good coaches, good kids, we seem mature, we say the right things, it just hasn't translated consistently on the field yet. I think it's because most of our talent is real young. We have a few guys that are older and good like Garnder, Lewan, Schofield, Q-Wash, etc. We have a ton of young players and every year each recruiting class is better than the last means we continue to stay young. Unfortunately I think it just takes literally 4-5 years to get both talented AND experienced. Most of our experienced players aren't super talented and most of our talent is young. We just have to be patient. We are still a good team, just not an elite team, and won't be next year either. It's frustrating that we just aren't quite what we expect yet, but that's the reality.
I've heard Taylor say similar things in the past. Nothing ever changed after his words. Words are just words.
he can offer. He and his teammates will have a chance to respond starting next week.
I think you might be reading a little much into it. Devin seems to be a quieter guy and Taylor's been the leader of this offensive unit for a little longer, so he's probably a little more comfortable being vocal.
I think you are reading way too much into it.
I think that is just a difference in their personalities. Devin is sick to his stomach and Lewan is straight out pissed and needs to hit something probably.
Who cares if he's "pissed?" He was probably pissed at halftime, too, when it was 7-3 against the worst team in FBS. A lot of good that did in the second half.
I think the captains really let the team down today...letting the team come out flat and letting this thing drag out. i would love to see them have a great week of practice and fire on all cylinders against UCONN but this was very scary. The coaches need to take accountability for their positions, but there needs to be significant leadership from the players. Was nowhere to be found this afternoon
Do you have examples of lack of leadership?
Not to be an ass, but this is always annoying to me. "The team was soft," "they didn't show up," "they weren't yelling at each other so they clearing don't care."
We only know that they didn't execute. We don't know how leadership did or didn't play into that. We don't know how coaching did or didn't play into that.
Sure, we can infer things. But I saw no lack of leadership today, but rather severe lack of execution.
Well, ok, we'll have to agree to disagree.
I'm of the strong opinion that leadership can create the correct attitude in a team, create a work ethic. However, as a coach, I live it: leadership of one individual cannot make another individual a better player by itself. At some point, every man on the team is personally responsible for their performance.
Sure, players can improve under the guidance of veterans. But those vets cannot prevent the other players from making mistakes. They cannot put in extra hours in the weight room for them. They cannot make plays for them.
I agree with that. As a leader you have to hold teammates accountable. We expect our leaders to do that. However, we hold players accountable to effort and work ethic and team rules and things like that.
Come game-time, it's each players' personal responsibility to do his job. At some point leadership has to give way to personal responsibility.
I guess we can all argue forever when that point is.
As a coach, I completely disagree with you. When my team performs poorly, 99% of the time it is the fault of my seniors and leaders. This is, of course, if it isn't my fault as the coach. Once those kids begin playing, there is only so much I can do as a coach. If I believe that I have prepared them as well as I can possibly can, then any failure once the game begins lays at the feet of the leadership of the team.
At this point for the Michigan football team, I believe the majority of the coaching staff has earned the benefit of the doubt. Aside from the stupid-ass reliance on the dinosaur punting formations.
Have you ever had a predominantly young team? I would generally agree with a veteran team, but do you really hold captains responsible for freshmen having bad games? And I'm not talking about coach speak "you need to prepare better" kind of stuff that you bring up in front of the team.
Behind closed doors, do you really account freshmen/sophomore mistakes to the upperclassmen not leading well enough?
I'm coaching a team right now that doesn't have the greatest leadership. Not bad, but more lead by example guys. One's an all-state player, so at the high school level, that's not a bad guy to have as a captain, but he is just a quieter, more reserved guy. He plays his balls off every game. When the freshmen and sophomores make freshmen and sophomore mistakes, I certainly don't blame my All-State player who is playing at a great level.
Yep, my last two years my varsity has been full of freshmen and sophomores who are much more talented than the juniors and seniors. I expect the older kids to lead by example, and do not expect to fall back on the talent of the younger kids. I might have been lucky, but those older players have stepped up and helped guide and mold the younger, more talented kids. Even when it means the younger kids are taking their spots on varsity. So I believe a great deal in leadership from players, especially when my team chooses those leaders.
So...um... I think we're on the same page?
Sure the leaders guide and mold underclassmen. But those underclassmen aren't going to be perfect. My point is that even with excellent leadership from upperclassmen, underclassmen are going to make underclassmen mistakes. And those mistakes aren't something you should hold the upperclassmen responsible for; so long as they are leading and enstilling the values you expect them to.
Maybe I are confused. Do your underclassmen never fuck up? If so, please, sell me your snake oil.
Derrrrrrrp. Why do Lewan and the other captains not have an invisible brain link to the underclassmen!? BLAME THIS ON THE COACHES!
See, this kind of characterization always drives me crazy. Tom Brady's Patriots laid an egg against the Ravens in the playoffs last year, and his team didn't perform well down the stretch. He's a leader of that team, correct? But they didn't execute, so does that mean he lacked leadership? Of course not. You can only do so much as a player; sometimes guys just don't play well. Trying to divine more from it because of the result minimizes the myriad of factors in the process.
Ok then. You're still wrong
and his unit was a glaring weakness today. If the Oline had come out and fired off the ball and given Fitz some holes, that would have shown some leadership. Maybe we are arguing 2 sides of the same coin, but lack of execution means nobody stepped up and made plays (Leadership). I thought Lewan played pretty well, but his sidekick on the left side was abysmal. Leadership would have been getting his fellow Olineman to execute better. It just looked like apathy from EVERYONE out there, and the captains are the ones who should step up, make a play, and set the example
You are really good at this mind reading thing. Like scary good. What is it like inside the minds of all these kids?
are you disagreeing with any of my points? I guess I expect Lewan to improve the play of those around him by setting the example. That did not happen as the Oline was pretty weak today. I guess I should ask you what your defintion of a captain is, if not to set the example, inspire your teammates, and get the most out of them.
I thought Lewan played really well today in my admittedly relatively uneducated opinion. What makes you think that he can literally play the game for several other inexperienced players?
that Lewan didn't improve the players around him? The OL was weak today; without him, perhaps they would have been far, far worse.
The answer is that you don't know because you can't know.
the play of his teammates? ...Well like you said, they were pretty bad today. That's partly on him IMHO as the leader of the group and a captain.
Maybe if you had cheered more effectively from your couch they would have played better as well. Probably all your fault.
I'll take responsibility. I will cheer with much more gusto from now on and also improve the cheering of my wife as well- as a leader should improve those around him
The OL was bad. But how can you know that Lewan did not make them better?
Let's say that the OL play today was a 2.5 out of 10. Perhaps without Lewan they would have been a 1.5. That means that Lewan improved them, i.e., made them better, because 2.5 > 1.5.
Are you saying that you know that without Lewan that the OL play would have been AS BAD (e.g., a 2.5), meaning that he didn't improve them?
If so, how do you know that? How COULD you know that?
The oline played poorly. Lewan individually had a good game. But part of his job is to make the unit as a whole 'good' - (at least in my opinion). not really sure what you are trying to argue here.
I am arguing that:
- You have no idea whether or not Lewan is a good leader.
- You have no idea whether or not Lewan improves the play of the players around him (or not).
- All you know is that the OL played badly.
- And you conclude from that fact that Lewan is a bad leader.
- And that is a logical fail.
- Because Lewan, like any leader, can only do so much.
let's ask TL is part of his job is to make the Oline better. Hint: he will say yes. As long as the Oline plays poorly, he will and should take some responsibility for that. That's what leaders do...
For instance, if one of my Marines makes a poor decision, he will be held accountable. But so will I, as his leader. Not only do I need to do the right things, but I need to inspire those under me to do the same things.
It's clear we disagree (somehow)- but if the Oline plays poorly, TL bears some responsibility for that, and he would tell you the same thing
TIL that coachspeak is very serious business, especially when it's coming from players.
"We didn't prepare. This is on the seniors, this is on the leadership of this team, and extremely poor, poor leadership. Especially on my side. Being the one offensive captain on this team, I put that offensive performance on myself."
"This is the seniors' fault. This is the captains' fault. We will not come out like this again."
I'll let you guess who said those things
Have you ever played competitive sports? Have you ever been an offensive lineman? Seriously, you think that Taylor can make the players on the o line better in the midst of the game? This is not basketball where he can draw the defense to himself and drop dimes all day long. He can help the guys prepare in the weightroom in the offseason, he can help them prepare by helping them become students of the game watching film, he can give them advice on the sideline, and he can encourage them during the game. I think it is pretty well establishedhe has done some of these things (I have no clue what he does on the sidelines during games). He cannot make blocks for them, he cannot read the defense for them after the snap. That defense had 10 in the box at times today and we have guys making their 3rd starts. The game was ugly, but to say the leadership was lacking tells me you have never been on the sidelines of a football game. I didn't see any blow-ups on the side line or players pointing fingers at one another, or any other self-destructive emotional outbursts. That IS a sign of LEADERSHIP. They stuck together through adversity and didn't implode completely. They laid an egg today, they didn't execute, they came out flat. Akron laid it all out on the line and played way over their heads. These things happen, they preserved the victory, it was a valuable lesson for the young players, hopefully next week we see a more focused and motivated football team.
When has he said simiar things?
Guess you just want team leaders to stay quiet?
Unless you're part of the team, you have no freaking clue how much Taylor has helped the team through his words. Maybe they would have been a lot worse without his leadership. The man is doing everything he can to help the team -- he gave up millions of dollars to come back and help the team, and all you do is complain about how "words are just words"? Come on, man. Don't be a douche.
Hoke has said that this team is led by its leaders. He is amongst them. Coaches, senior, and captains are to blame. Pretty simple.
I can agree with that as long as the statement is amended to include every single one of the other players that were on the field today.
between taking or accepting responsibility and being responsible.
The leaders of the team need to take responsibility for the performance of the team. It doesn't mean that they are actually entirely responsible for it. Everyone has to contribute. It is, after all, a team sport. Probably it is THE team sport.
You are a douche la rue.
I'm going to have to pull a wikipedia and put a [citation necessary[ for that statement.
I want to give the team the benefit of the doubt and say that this was just one of those games. Every team seems to have them at some point where they just play down to an opponent that has no business being on the same field as them, like LSU against Towson last year. We also know what this team is capable of when they're on their game.
But we'll know for sure next week. If we have another performance next week like we did today, I'd say we have a ceiling of no more than 6-7 wins, and the road would start going downhill with an upset next week. But I'd love nothing more than to see the boys come out next Saturday night with something to prove and just blow UConn right off the face of the Earth.
That DL is no joke. I'll take stalemaking that line. Today, however, was horrendous.
Yawn, heard it before from this group. Hey, you ain't Tebow. These same type of statements were made many times during the RR years and a few times last year (notably after Nebraska). Words mean nothing, actions mean something. Perhaps they should put away their Friday night party pants and concentrate on winning.
They did win...
Thanks, I'll tell everyone I know!
- They did win. That is an action that means something. Ok, they didn't play well. I suppose you've always done your best over the course of your life?
- Taylor Lewan gave up millions of dollars to return for his senior season. That is an action that means something.
I keep hearing about a party but no answer to my queries. What is that about?
There was a party on campus last night that undergraduates attended. I am not in Ann Arbor, but I would bet one trillion dollars that this happened.
Can confirm. I live in AA. Saw some parties. Went to some bars. Did not see a football player.
I'm never said the players were at a party. My point is that us knowing about a party on campus is worthless. The idea that we as fans are entitled to know the activities of these 100 students 24/7 is absolutely ridiculous.
Sorry, my sarcasm gets really thick after a game like this where people go completely out of their gourds and I have nothing better to do than read the board... :)
I attempt to bite my tongue(fingers?) and not go crazy reading all the irrationality and argue with the madness. I fail at times and get sucked in every now and then.
This feeling is a big part of why we love sports. Without days like this the big wins wouldn't feel nearly as good.
As always, they stay at a hotel.
That's what I thought. Thanks.
You're a real piece of [radio edit].
Herm is just having a really grumpy old man day
He isn't Tebow; he might actually play in the NFL for more than a season.
Am I the only one not seeing the videos?
You are not. They do not show up on iOS devices (think that's the issue for me)
Yeah, I'm on iPad/Safari. Able to watch on the Detroit News site.
Just got to watch the video. Seemed like genuine disgust from Lewan and embarrassment from Devin. I think they won't come out flat next week.
How you won, just if.
If I were a member of that team after the game, I would be very afraid of Lewan. I imagine he was ready to rip someone's face off after that "embarrassment," as he put it. I have confidence that he will get his OL in order and that Devin will watch film and fix some of his issues.
On defense, we need the DL to be better. They were not able to get a pass rush going and they weren't doing a good job establishign the LOS and keeping the run contained. Wonder what Mattison does going forward.
People's skill set is not going to change from 1 game to the next. If it's a matter of the team playing flat that is one thing but some people here need to accept UM has some MAC level talent at some positions, sorry it is difficult to accept. I am not picking on Heitzman (just using him as an example) but his offer sheet was almost all MAC teams (so was Jake Ryan's but I digress, every so often a player supersedes his offer sheet by a large amount). Heitzman is our starter. Compare that Noah Spence being the starter at OSU and Tuitt at ND. I dont care how "inspired Hietzman" gets the probability is he will never be a better player than those guys. Sorry. Maybe he will be better than this week's level of play but what does that mean. And I am saying that to the whole team and especially the lines. A walk on is challenging for good amounts of playing time on the D line (Glasgow). A walk on is a starter on the OL. (yes I know Kovacs). But no matter how peeved I was when I played sports, I didnt get 20% better the next game nor did my getting peeved, make everyone around me better even when I was a captain. God bless these kids for taking responsibility and being upset but what does any fan expect from them? To walk in happy? And what do they expect it to translate to? I am sure practices will be more intense and they will come out in the UConn game firing - in fact I expect a big win next week. But that doesnt take away talent issues.
My iPhone 5 almost never shows the videos people embed on this site. Dunno what the issue is, but it is certainly annoying.
That is because you bought an electronic device based on a marketing campaign. Next time, don't do that.
I'm an iPhone owner, but even I lol'd.
Mature a little and stop trying to do it all/too much.
He could do more damage than a lesser QB who took less on.
It's not a question if watching film. It's an issue of being responsible.
They have played presumeably one good team. The win against ND could have been a very emotional effort just as we saw with Akron today.
No doubt Michigan line play on both sides of the both have been atrocious. Granted they are young but one would think they are strong. Yet, the offensive line of Akron must have been laughing thier asses off watching the Michigan line try to rush the passer.
Our offensive line today was a house of cards. Tom Brady could have been back there and he would have had a bad day. At least DG can run.
Hoke said it best they are not a top ten team. It is questionable if they are a top 25 team.
ND is losing to Purdue right now . .. 10 - 0
I would say that the people who went right to the Internet to vent should at least watch these - they should provide you with some insight into how aware of its own status this team is. Watching these does give me a positive vibe in the sense that this is a team that exists in a culture that is conducive to learning and recovering from an ugly win such as this. They are all too aware of the mistakes and weren't making excuses or trying to explain it away. That is what makes you confident that they will address what they saw in that game as best they can.
This is no time for rational thought, my friend.
" That is what makes you confident that they will address what they saw in that game as best they can. " Agreed. But the larger question i what can be addressed. You could put me into a basketball game and coach me up all day but I am still my height and skill. I am using an extreme example but I think this now falls on the coaches. They know now with these 3 games what they have, so they need to scheme around it. Yes players will get incrementally better but you are not going to get leaps btw now and Nov. We are not a manball team on offense despite the hope nor will be for at least 2 more years since next year's OL will be younger than this year's. We are not a manball defensive team either. Mattison needs to take more risk to get pressure on the QB and yes that exposes us to big plays more but good teams are going to tear apart this defense with this philosophy - OSU NW and Nebraska all have better offenses than ND (or at minimum the same) and you cant count on Vince Young showing up at UTL 2 to win all those games. But I get your larger point, my larger point is "as best they can" only can take you so far - you need raw talent and some of these players simply dont match up to the top level of the Big 10... which is not a great conference in football right now. Hence they are being neutralized by MAC talent.
about DG saying that the bad game almost ruined M's championship chances. I've grown really fond of this guy in a short time, but he and the team need to dial back the big talk and concentrate on getting better week to week.
And (could be wrong but) I think that DG was was a mite casual out there today, and therefore a little behind on a lot of his throws. A tiny bit more urgency, please. We are not the anointed, we are a work in progress. What you see, Week Three, is to a certain extent what you are going to get with line play--both sides of the ball. Derrick Green in for one play and running into the brick wall of his own O line kinda confirms this. We have some tough games ahead of us; progress will be incremental, not miraculous.
Going further, Gardner said the team's goals were for the national championship.
It might have been him simply misspeaking after a disappointing showing.
But your point is spot on ... play every game well and wins will follow. Then, if things fall right, the B1G championship follows. Only then can you start talking about NC.
Do you want him to say that they expect to lose a couple games before they are even played, and therefore the goal isn't to get the NC. Realistically, this team isn't ready to reach those heights yet, but that doesn't mean your mindset isn't to win every single game. How dare Devin and the team be confident that they are going to win every game on the schedule. Now there is a fine line between confidence and overconfidence, which was certainly evident today. As we saw last year with ND reaching the NC game, anything can happen and just because is highly unlikely it doesn't mean the team should set their goals lower.
I expected him to echo what Hoke always says ... that is, the team's goal every year is the Big Ten championship. Hoke never addresses the NC question ... he always points to the Big Ten championship. That was my key point.
I suspect Gardner's comment was simply a slip of the tongue.
But ... if it was a reflection of some kind of dream of marching to a NC, then it would have been a telling indicator of some misplaced bravado. And to the degree today's game poured cold water on that, then good. It needed doing.
Hoke's point -- and I agree 100% with it -- is make the goal the Big Ten championship. Achieve that and then talk about the NC. Because sure as hell if you don't achieve the first you won't get to talk about the second.
Ten schedule, your already out of the NC picture. How many times did they seem to happen with Carr's teams in his last several years? I really don't understand your comment, the goal is to win every game which requires a team to be confident in their ability entering each game. Is this team good enough to realistic think they will go undefeated from a fan's perspective? Not yet. That doesn' mean that it shouldn't be the goal before the season starts though. You have to win the non-conference games, before getting to any conference games. That has to be the mindset, otherwise you end looking past non-conference games and having performances like we got today.
I just thinking your reading way too much into this, the goal is to win every game. Gardner was simply expressing the fact that his played today amost cost his team the oppurtunity to do just that.
I said up front I thought his comment was mostly likely a mis-statement. I think Devin meant to say Big 10 championship.
In simple terms -- a team who thinks they're good enough to march to the NC is a team that's likely to overlook a game like Akron. But a team that understands nothing is given to them is a team that goes out and plays every game as if everything is earned and nothing is entitled.
difference between confidence and overconfidence. Being overconfident today does not mean that you shouldn't be confident heading into each and every game. We are just going to have to agree to disagree, because as I said the non-conference schedule comes before the Big Ten title. If your goal is simply winning the Big Ten, those non-conference games may take on less significance, therefore the tendency to overlook them. You can't argue that overlooking non-conference games didn't become a problem in the latter stages under Carr. I don't want to return to that again.
I have agreement and disagreement with portions of what you wrote. But it's late. As you say, we'll agree to disagree.
Devin played a near perfect game. Against Akron he played horribly. That is the wild card in all this. Unfortunately the play of both lines has been mediocre to poor for 3 games. This is not going to change. As teams scout us they will take advantage of these weaknesses, as they are glaring. It will take a lot of heroic performances from Devin and many fewer like today if we want to have a good season this year.
Of the Hoke Shrug?
Hoke's recruiting and Mattison's turnaround in 2011 on the defense were nothing short of remarkable. Michigan is recruiting better than they ever have in the modern era. With all of that being said, Hoke is a glorifited recruiter and clearly gets outcoached whenever there's a formidable coach on the other side. Of Hoke's 22 wins (including today), 17 have come at home. We've won 5 games away from Ann Arbor in 2 years including the Sugar Bowl. Hoke and Mattison are D-line guys and yet is easily our weakest unit on the defense. We can not get pressure unless we bring 6 guys on an all out blitz. That is disturbing. Similarly, O-line is the weakest unit on offense. FItz gets met in the backfield EVERY time he touches the football. There have only been a handful of carries where it can make the LOS untouched let alone 4 yards downfield. Mattison has yet to hold a team under 350 total yards this season. I really think the game is starting to pass him by. Mattison did great with the 2011 turnaround but the game has passed him by.
Holy Hell. I don't even...never mind it's not worth it.
Go grab a beer, take a timeout and return to us when you have a better attitude...
That might be because we are slowly rebuilding the talent level in A2 one year at a time? Two full classes signed one in 2012 and one in 2013. Young, athletic talent, not experienced. You can not replace experience and you can't magically teach it all you can do is wait for it to occur. This is where we are since the start of the 2007 season, and why we have not seriously challenged for the B1G title since 2006. This team went 8-5 last year, and they are not suddenly going to 13-0. This is going to be a slow and painful process with some gains and some brilliant plays and some oh my God moments like pick 6's and getting beat deep by wide outs and safety derps and what not. Inconsistancy is the hall mark of young teams. Grow up, understand where you are in the process, and be realistic. 9-3 seems about right. We are at least 1-2 years away from having the talent level that people like you associate with the brand name of Michigan football.
All of this freaking out is just pathetic. This is still a team that beat a good ND team last saturday. And maybe we should give those Akron kids a little more credit.
With all of that being said, Hoke is a glorifited recruiter and clearly gets outcoached whenever there's a formidable coach on the other side
Really? You think Brian Kelly outcoached him last week? I think most people would agree that Kelly, despite being a jerk, is a good coach.
But a win. Akron did almost everything right, and hard to deny that we were really out coached. Everyone will have lots of specifics to look at and get better at. Two biggest issues I saw were Gardner/ball control and Wile. No Bo-like option to bench the guy who is not getting better at ball control, so this will be a real coaching challenge. Get him to markedly decrease while not killing his confidence. Wile situation seems to me to be a "next guy in" solution.
On D, give the start to whomever was doing what they were supposed to. Depth should help here. And light a candle to the Blessed Mother of Returning From ACL Injury ASAP.
We Won but sure felt as Lewan stated....a loss...so Woss.
I say we never ever scheduled a team that starts with letter A!!!! Alabama, Applacian State, Akron...please lets move onto Connecticut.
Go Blue! I am still a fan.