Post game thoughts IU
Bad shooting and hero ball. That is all.
By all the fouling Michigan did in the final 2 minutes. At one point late in the 2nd half, fouls for the half were pretty close and both teams were in the bonus. Biggest reason for FT discrepancy besides that was IU going to the basket more aggressively than Michigan. Burke and company were launching too many perimeter jumpers.
I can't find the stat, but I could have sworn in the 2nd half when they said "Indiana will be in the bonus the rest of the way" the graphic showed Indiana with only one team foul.
six of those fouls on us, which IU converted into 12-12 from the line, were intentional on our part and came during the last 1:42 of the game. They "won" the battle insofar as they made their free throws down the stretch but its not like there was a big disparity in the number of fouls called or drawn until the end.
Missed Morgan defensively...gotta learn how to play in a hostile environment.
Eh, I know what you mean but Mitch made a FEW plays that Jordan wouldn't have made. Kinda missed Jordan but I don't think he was a difference in the game that was played tonight. Just my humble opinion.
I know it. But I feel while Mitch makes the hustle plays, Morgan tends to stay home and boxes out, rebounds, etc.
I just feel like Zeller got a lot more easy looks than he deserved.
True. Now that you say that I think we did give Zeller a couple gifts on Orebs/put-backs that maybe were a factor of Mitch being the Big Man versus Jordan being in there.
Those two Zeller dunks off of missed Oladipo layups struck me a place where Morgan probably would have made a smarter play. I think overall though, the dropoff from Morgan to Horford was very small.
Saying that Zeller got those put back dunks b/c of McGary is completely incorrect. The guards were getting beat off the dribble, and McGary was doing the correct thing by sliding over and providing help defense. By doing this, of course, he leaves Zeller free. Someone else is supposed to rotate down to pick up Zeller, but a lot of these were bang-bang plays and there was no time for anyone to rotate down and put a body on Zeller.
So you are left with a bit of a catch-22. The Indiana player has a step on his defender, and if Belein tells McGary not to help, he will be able to take a high percentage lay-up/close shot. On the other hand, if McGary goes over and helps, he makes the shot much tougher by contesting it, but he leaves Zeller alone for a potential rebound.
I don't know of many coaches who would tell their big men NOT to help on a guard who has penetrated. You'd rather make them take a tough shot (which McGary did successfully multiple times) and risk the offensive rebound than allow them to take the easier layup when they have a step on their defender.
So I wouldn't blame McGary for that at all, and I think Morgan would have been doing the same things were he in the game. And if you look at it, at least a couple of those O-Rebs went RIGHT to Zeller, they couldn't have been more perfect if they were passed to him intentionally. It happens like that sometimes when you allow penetration....tough to blame the big guy for something he doesn't have control over.
Help D has to be there. If they're not, people would be asking, "where's the help, we're getting killed off the dribble!"
Yep. Mitch made some awesome hustle plays out near halfcourt, but he failed to put a body on Zeller way too many times.
See my above, probably too long post. McGary was bruising with Zeller all night! Knocked him down several times, was generally pretty physical. What do you want him to do, let Oladipo get a lay-up or dunk?!? McGary has to leave his man to help, it is not his fault that he has to do that.
Next time a big guy gets a put-back dunk in any game you are watching, before just automatically saying "Wow Big Guy X didn't box his guy out," rewind the DVR and watch why his man left him. Sure, it could be due to a mistake, but most of the time it will be because he had to help on penetrating ball handlers, as McGary did multiple times tonight.
I know that was true some of the time. Sure, if he's in position he needs to rotate and deny penetration. But there were a few plays where he wasn't in great position to help out and left Zeller anyway. He did nothing but take himself out of the play when that happened.
I respectfully disagree :)
It doesn't matter if you are not "in great position to help" or not, especially if you are the closest help defender available; missing a help rotation on defense makes coaches very angry. One of the plays I remember specifically, Zeller and McGary were on the weakside block. The Indiana ball handler (I think Oladipo) drove baseline and looked like he would have an uncontested layup or reverse layup. Mitch is not in great position to help there, but he is still the closest help defender to the ball. SOMEONE has to help there, and I very well may be wrong, but I think that guy is McGary for that play. I for one would rather have McGary make the initial shot tougher rather than just give up the deuce.
Zeller was smart, he dove right behind McGary, as he should have done, and picked up the easy one-handed flush when the ball bounced right to his side of the rim.
There were a few longer shots where Morgan was helping off though where he got under the basket and didn't move Cody back out of the way. Or whoever was down by the basket, thus they got a few easier rebounds than if he had positined himself better on those longer shots. I don't know if this is what the other poster is talking about, but I did see this. It wasn't the end of the world kind of stuff, but he's still got some work to do on positioning on some shots. So it's not necessarily about the help off, at least what I saw. And again, that was only a vew few times, which is going to happen every once in a while anyways.
Yeah, I noticed that, too, and I agree. It seems like McGary is more active than Morgan, but he has a tendancy to stray a bit at times, while Morgan is more solid and "stay-at-home".
To me, that is a separate issue than rotating to provide help on a ball-handler attacking the rim. Giving up easy layups drives me nuts and I always want my big men to help and contest at the rim. Well....in a perfect world, no opposing guards would get into the paint to begin with.
On that play, though, THJ was long enough to force Oladipo into a very difficult contested reverse layup. McGary's help didn't fundamentally affect the shot to any degree. Now, that's a really difficult split second decision for a freshman, but I think it's fair to say that McG's first instinct is to help and at times that can unbalance the defense.
That is tough to say. THJ does have some nice length, but Oladipo was pretty much at or past his shoulder, right? Coula been a foul, or maybe you are right and he could force the miss.
I do agree that McGary's first instinct seems to be to help, but I also suspect that the coaching staff encourages helping, too. McGary has been consistently helping on penetrators all year, and I'd think that if Belein didn't want him doing that, he'd either tell him to stop, or bench him when he did it.
I didn't think he ever got his shoulder past and that THJ was contesting. At any rate, it's a split second decision. At least he went strong with the help when he went, rather than sitting in no man's land.
True, you never want to half-go, half-stay. Whatever you decide in that split second, just do it. And Mitch did.
When he was supposed to most of the time. The guards closed out poorly, gave Indiana the middle forcing our bigs to help.however, Mitch did help unnecessary like 1-2 times which led to dunks. Our problem is defensively, we are average at best. Tough to win on the road when you are average defensively.
I disagree...the guards got beat baseline quite a bit and McGary attacked the shot...no one came down and helped on Zeller
I didn't count how many times we were beat middle or sideline, nor do I know what coach B teaches, force baseline or middle, all I can say is that are close-outs were sloppy and our weak side defense and rotation was too slow.
four buckets that were not O-Reb dunks. MM was fronting Zeller and/or trying to steal the ball when IU lobbed it into the post. This worked to prevent IU from having much in the way of post entry pass-initiated offense. Zeller only had one make that came as a result of a traditional post move (that pretty little fall-away shot) and he had no assists where the ball goes in and he kicks it out to an open man after the D collapses. Zeller's taller and has a great post game so using MM's quickness to try to deny him the ball seems like a reasonable course of action. Unfortunately, that strategy drew MM out of position for defensive rebounding and help defense several times. Pick your poison against a team as good as IU - Michigan just didn't knock down enough shots to keep up, unfortunately.
I don't understand how people disrespect Jordan so much. It's crazy the lack of respect he gets from Michigan fans. He was the difference. That and GRIII not ever showing up for the game. They should have just left him out. Unfortunately they couldn't since they didn't have Morgan, so they need Horford and Mitch at the 5. Otherwise, they could have taken GRIII out for one of those two while Morgan was the the 5. At least one of them could have scored ONE freaking point in the first 20 minutes.
I don't think people disrespect Morgan. I think he is greatly appreciated and is probably the best overall option at C. You know what you are getting out of him and he plays solid. McGary and Horford provide more explosive options but less tested. However, I think the point being made was that we did miss Morgan but that wasn't the difference in the game. On a lot of those uncontested dunks Zeller was making, it was the guard allowing penetration and McGary or Horford having to help with no one moving down on Zeller, as mentioned by another poster above. Maybe Morgan would not have helped on that last dunk and been able to box out Zeller but having Morgan wouldn't have made much of a difference since he probably would have helped most of the time. There was an offense rebound or two that Morgan probably would not have given up but the difference was probably Stauskas and GRIII having really bad games and Michigan settling for too many jumpshots and missing the open jumpshots. We could have been leading at half if we hadn't gone 1-9 from 3, with many of those being wide-open looks. If we are missing open jumpshots it is tough to beat elite teams. Stauskas not being able to manhandle Hulls was probably where we really lost out. That was a match-up we needed a win on and we didn't get it (10 versus 11 points but Stauskas shot 3-10 and Hulls shot 3-5). However, it was a close game and anything really could have been the difference maker.
Zeller doesn't get as many dunks off the offensive glass if Jordan Morgan played regular minutes.
Nooooooooooooooo, this is not right!!!! I'd have to go back to the film to verify, but my imperfect memory is telling me that all of Zeller's put back dunks happened when McGary rotated to help on a penetrating ball handler! Morgan would have done the same thing! It's proper defense!
I don't think anyone is disrespecting Morgan, he is a very solid defensive player and a key member of the team. No reason to pile on Mitch for rotating on defense, though!
It'd be easier for Mitch to stick on Zeller and allow the ball handler to get the easy lay-up. Then casual observers would call out the on-ball defender for allowing the penetration, and no one would be criticizing McGary for "leaving" Zeller.
Can you tell I used to be a big man? :)
I don't think anyone is piling on Mitch. Just saying that Morgan seems a bit better in those situations. No fault in how Mitch played for pkaying in an insane environment against a fantastic team. Especially since he had to be extra careful not to foul since Morgan was out. If Morgan could go, I think Mitch would have been a bit more agressive and not so tempered. Not that he wasn't pushing Cody around some.
The point is that Mitch made the right plays in coming in to stop the ball handler at the expense of putting himself out of position for the rebound. Given the options of letting them score on the drive or the putback, I'll take the putback every time.
I totally agree, you have to play help side defense, and then someone needs to rotate to help down on that putback as best they can. Now, usually those putbacks are so fast that it's insanely hard to do, so I'm not faulting anyone. They just got a lot of nice, lucky opportunities. Sometimes the ball just bounces the wrong way(or other words IU got a lot of bounces). Not much you can do about that, other than give your best effort and keep on playing.
You create your own luck. Dribble penetration = good things.
What happened? Did you shrink?
Haha, a little bit the opposite of that...
Where I think Morgan is undervalued, and I noticed this for the one offensive set he came in, is that his screens at the top of the key are more solid and effective than the younger guys. He anticipates where he needs to be to make contact better and makes sure to stay set through the contact with the ballhandler's defender. Mitch often releases a fraction of a second too early allowing the on-ball defender to come over the screen without much difficulty. Makes it tougher for Trey to play his game, IMO.
I agree that McGary was leaving his picks too soon, and I agree that Morgan is a better screener. But it is on the ball handler to rub his guy off (that's what she said, I know) the screener's shoulder. Screener can't move unless he wants to commit a foul.
Yes, he's undervalued in terms of the screens and his general fluency with the offense. He's also undervalued on defense. Both JB and Burke have referred to him as the defensive glue who makes sure guys are in the right spot. I think he would have helped more than Horford tonight.
is pretty masterful in his picks. Several times I noticed McGary leave his just a moment too soon. McGary had a great game, though. The point is really not either/or but that we just needed Morgan, too. Still, Morgan out has shown how much more McGary and Horford can do--big silver lining, hopefully, down the road.
Magna cum laude from the Caron Butler University of How to Finish Games
Burke is the truth. I will miss him. GRIII needs to come back next year to erase the bad taste from this performance. Oladipo is a douchenozzle. Officiating was pretty even no matter what people say.
The officials weren't bad but this statisic indicates Indiana was given a bit more foul calls in shooting situations.
It was like 7 FTs to 16 before we started fouling at the end.
was pretty fairly officiated. I mean, as good as we can expect to get playing in a road game in this conference.
for being in Bloomington the refs had as good a game as possible (only exception is the ridiculous Oladipo continuation 3 point play - which if it was a continuation meant he took 4 steps to the basket !!!).
Bottom line - Staukus is a FRESHMAN. The 2 biggest games of the year he's so geeked that he is lost out there. He had 3 wide open looks from distance in the first 7 minutes that he NEEDS to hit at least 2. The perimeter was available, but IU didn't need to be concened since we were 2 for 11. Hitting those shots may have opened up the inside for GR3 - who could also be described as a freshman in this game. If GR3 is outmatched by Wadford - then he's not ready for the NBA ... so at least he'll be back. On the other hand Trey can start in the NBA right now ... 90% chance he's gone after this year.
DAMN IT - we need to win one of these BIG GAMES !!!!!
But think about it. IU attacked the basket a lot more than we did and posted up Zeller and Watford frequently. We mainly settled for outside shots. There were a couple of times where I thought we got fouled inside with no call (Horford definitely did on one play) but overall I wouldn't expect us to have as many FTs the way we played.
Indiana was so much more aggressive than Michigan was that that count isn't shocking at all.
No Morgan. That's the difference in the game. Then you add the fact that GRIII forgot to show up and Michigan wins by 15 if those two things change. The good news is it's not a huge deal. We'll likely swap places, then come out wanting to prove that they're still the best through this next tough stretch. I don't see us losing another game in this stretch now.
The good news is they played almost as bad as they could have and stil didn't really lose by much. If you account for the home court advantage, it's probably a break even game without our best low post man. Plus no GRIII for the entire game. To me, this just showed exactly how good they are when they come to play. Still the best team in the nation when fully healthy, in my opinion.
Not only no GRIII, but not much Stauskas either. I think he ended up in double figures because of that late three, but he had a rough day.
Correct, plus Mitch didn't necessarily do a lot of damage offensively and he was in for a significant amount of time with the absence of Morgan.
McGary and Horford combined for 14 points. That was about the production we usually get from the 5 position.
Not bad I guess, but with the others not hitting as much or even shooting as much, I guess I figured that would mean they should shoot a little more.
Stauskus at this point has not shown himself to be a big game player. He missed wide open shots on the offensive end, but worse, he frequently played space on the defensive end in transition vs playing a man. Just not a good defender...just has lapses in ooncentration IMO
JB also said he after the game that he is really sick. Not making excuses, but that could play into it a little bit.
I heard that after my post. That probably contributed, no doubt about it. Still though, I want to see him have a great game against MSU, IU, or OSU
If my aunt had a cock she'd be my uncle.
GRIII got shut down, it is what it is. Indiana is good. that is all.
Not really sure where this comment in coming from or why you worded it like that. I do not agree though that GRIII was "shut down." There's a difference between someone getting shut down and someone just literally doing next to nothing on offense, so you don't really even need to try and shut them down. GRIII hasn't ever really been fantastic on offense. A lot of his points come from alley-oops and fast break points or a size mis-match. Which wasn't going to happen with Watford. I think GRIII could have had a better game, but the game plan doesn't really revolve around him. He actually seems like a 4th option sometimes. Especially when they're trying to get the 3 ball going with Stauskas.
GRIII still has a lot to work on in his game. He's crazy athletic, so that's how he gets a lot of his points. But, Indiana has a lot of very good athletes as well, plus good low post defenders, so it's much harder to get points off the fast-break or back door alley-oops like a lot of GRIII's baskets come from. I do think GRIII will develop a better game overall as the season wears on, and then we'll see how he does. But to say IU shut him down isn't entirely true, when he wasn't really even try to do much at all it seemed like.
As definitely missed and GRIII was bad but to say we are 15 points better than them at Assembly Hall, I think you are looking through maize and blue glasses. Could we have won? Maybe...will we win at Chrysler? Probably but I doubt it will be by 15.
Oladipo should watch out next game. There might be a Graham Brown-esque screen coming his way
That is all.
That new Sony receiver can't get to the U.S. soon enough.
He'll be in Ann Arbor on Tuesday, don't shoot the messanger.
Robinson and Stauskas were invisible most of the game. It happens to freshman on the road against one of the best teams in the nation. We will be fine.
Stauskas just looked off his shot. GRIII looked completely lost out there. He was slow and hesitant on both the offensive and defensive side of the ball. Thought JB should've pulled him for a bit so he could try and regain his bearings.
we have no other player like him on our roster. No real backup especially in a game like this with Watford at PF. Maybe you go big with Horford at PF, but I think our best chance was keeping GR III in the game.
GR III's performance is another reason why I continue to be amazed by the draft projections on him. I think he has the potential to be great, but he is nowhere near ready for the NBA right now.
I have been very loudly stating that GRIII was the best player on our team and wondering why he wasn't featured more, but I was wrong; he has the talent but he really needs to convert that into a higher level of play.
Maybe he was sick? IDK but he was horrible tonight.
I am fine with Stauskas being off of his shot, but he needs to be better on D. He gives up alot more points on D when then he gets on O in big games. If you are going to huff and hollar bc you think you are the top dog, you need to prove that in big games. he didn't again, so he should probably stop barking and just play
Can't start big games like that. While I did not expect a win in Bloomington, I expected a better start than that and it was all-too-similar to the Ohio State game.
Play like that in the tournament and I don't care how big or small the school you play is - you'll be out in a hurry. I expected more. I don't' care that they tightened the game up, they should have never let it get so out of hand so early.
But in both losses, we also rallied to tie it in the second half - only to revert to the "Shoot a 3 ASAP" mindset right after. It wasn't just the big initial deficits. Against Ohio we did nothing but shoot 3's out of our halfcourt offense the last five minutes of the game, and we had a similar stretch today during IU's 11-0 after we tied it at 40.
I said it in e live chat. The kids played like kids. With GRIII doing nothing and Stauskas practically nothing it's tough to win on the road against a team as good as IU. Morgan out hurt too. I must say though they played well given those factors and almost stole a win.
We were okay
It's a rationalization to say that this is the kind of loss that you learn from, but this is the kind of loss that you learn from.
Especially that it's the second time it happened. I think it was partially jitters of being #1 in the nation, and being way too overhyped about the game. Trey Burke is the real deal, but he needs to settle down because some of his shot selection is really questionable.
And crean with the team the team the team. Zeller with zero fouls? Frustrating game all around.
Hard to believe that was not a foul when Zeller went body surfing on (Horford).
That team has no class because Crean is a tool. He makes Tom Izzo look rational
The no call on Zeller shoving two guys out of the way to get to a ball near the end blew my mind. I mean, what the fuck??
Are you talking about the loose ball where he split Burke and Stauskus to pick it up just before the side? Because that was clean and just great hustle on Zeller's part.
that should have been a foul on Zeller. He may have split the two, but he also ran Stauskas over at the same time.
That being said, the officiating did not cost Michigan this game. A couple bad calls here and there, but I thought it was fair for the most part.
Great Hustle, yes. A shove, yes. He definitely should had been called for something there
help this young team grow stronger but they will have to respond quickly and BEAT OHIO!
Shot selection by our guards was beyond awful. Way more live by the three die by the three than in any other game this season.
As good as Trey Burke is, he looked for his own shot before looking for anyone else.
Referees were awful. 17 free throws for Indiana before we needed to foul, to our 7. It was awful.
Tom Crean is creepy. He looks like a villain from a horror movie... Or Dwight Schrute
I am bitter now
Not everyone can be as sexy as Stamos.
GR3 and Stauskas looked like freshman playing in a big game. Frustrating to have two of your biggest weapons turn into liabilities/non-factors. I expected IU to win, so the final score wasn't a big suprise. It was just a frustrating game. Also, I hate Tom Crean. He is my least favorite Big Ten coach, and there is some stiff competition in that category. Also, the Oladipo dunk at the end was a douche move.
Will start by replying to a few notions already posted but GRIII didn't have a "bad" game. When you look at his past performances this year not much was different than what happened tonight. He isn't a player who is "revolved" around in the offense. He's a bit of a clean-up guy, if you will, and there wasn't much room for clean-ups. That's putting it in a simple way, I will say. He was quiet, for sure, but unless Beilein starts making up plays for him not much wull change from the type of role he is already playing, including tonight.
understand your point, but GRII had almost no offensive impact, rebounding, or getting open cutting to the basket or elsewhere. He cleans up b/c he finds space and out-athletics others. He couldn't do that today. That is on him, and I expect him to do better on Tuesday.
Agree 100% GRIII did not have a good game, but I'm not sure he's at fault. The offense doesn't flow through him much, especially when we're executing pick and roll stuff - which seemed like 70%+ of our offensive sets in this game. There was a lot of one on one stuff with little offensive flow, perhaps by design to exploit supposed mismatches. He also excels in the transition game - another facet of the game that was dormant throughout the entire match up.
He'll bounce back, as will Stauskas.
Sorry, but he had a bad game. He was shooting 58% from the field coming into the game but went 1-6 tonight. He also grabbed only four rebounds in 40 minutes (his season average is almost six a game) while also struggling mightily on defense. On top of it all, he seemed a step slow going for loose balls. The environment seemed to get to him.
Not that the Michigan players needed any extra motivation for the rematch, but Oladipo didn't think that one through.
In the post-game interviews, Oladipo went out of his way to apologize and talk about his respect for UM. He said he was running on pure adrenalin at the time and made a really bad choice.
I know he makes a good villain but Oladipo is actually a really nice, classy guy. It may not make the loss feel any better, but I feel like the UM-IU series this year is one characterized by both intensity and mutual respect.
A lot of IU fans were also quite upset by the play. I would expect that Oladipo already chatted with a few of the Michigan players and apologized.
or he crapped in his pants like a freshman. Stuaskas has to work harder to get free shots. Rest of the team was fine. Revenge will be sweet come March.
Actually, just listened to the post-game press conference and Beilein said Stauskas had the flu and wasn't able to practice yesterday. Maybe affected his game today. Nothing said about GRIII.
We missed too many bunny shots early. Stauskas didn't shoot well from three. Burke took a lot of bad shots. Glenn Robinson wasn't much of a factor.I credit IU for hitting their free throws. I thought the refs weren't bad considering where we were playing at.
We should be able to take IU next time.
for the Victor O. continuation 3-point play that was not in the act of shooting, and he traveled after getting fouled (which inherently tells you that he was not shooting when fouled).
I've definitely witnessed worse reffing jobs in Bloomington.
Oladipo's dunk as time expired was classless. Hardaway was not happy about that and I think it will be remembered next time around.
Defense was atrocious and the offense was terrible. Give IU credit as they took away back cuts and didn't give many open looks. Regardless of officiating, IU was better and Sparty played them better here
Huh? Black hole? C'mon. He missed a few shots but he played the role of a pretty good scorer, of which he is. Defense was bad at times I agree but to say Burke was a "black hole" or "bad" in anyway, I respectfully, totally disagree.
His shot selection was beyond bad today. He was trying to do to much which made him not as effective as he is usually
in his defense, he chucked a few towards the end, but overall, he wasn't getting any help on offense from anyone. so i would rather have the shot in burke's hands.
- I thought overall the refs did well. To be honest, I was expecting a lot worse. The fact that we got the charge calls that we should have actually surprised me. Terrible And-1 call that should have been travelling, and at an extremely unfortunate time of the game. I thought we should have had a couple And-1 calls go our way that didn't.
- Surprised it was actually that close when you look at the stats. IU beat us significantly in FG%, 3pt FG%, FT's, Rebounds, and even assists. And, GRIII was Casper the friendly ghost. Stauskas was nearly as invisible.
- Guarantee that not all of these things will happen when IU comes to AA. I'm already looking forward to the rematch.
- IU already lost a game at home. We have that advantage over them.
- Cody Zeller is now my player of the year, although I want Burke to win and I know he has plenty of chances to take it. But this game by Zeller made me a believer. And I don't like that.
- Burke, heroball. With that said, IU's defense was taking some of our players out of the game, and in some ways, Burke had to do what he had to do. However, if he would have been able to drive and pass, maybe they could have gotten into the game, right? It could have changed the game completely.
What else do you have?
Agree with quite a few of your points. Burke is still POY. I know that's very homer but if you were to know me I'm far from a homer type-fan. Trey has showed up in every game, including tonight, where Zeller has not. Tyler had a hell of a game tonight and that can't be denied but I still give the nod, easily, to Trey Burke.
I think GRIII lack of movement was often predicated by the pick 'n roll game that dominated our offensive sets. You don't want GRIII slashing into the lane as Burke and McGary/Horford/Morgran are setting up the pick plays, or Burke going 1 on 1 into the lane. This lack of offensive motion occurs frequently under similar scenarios in most recent games. I don't think GRIII is being lazy on offense...I think it's somtimes a symptom of our offensive sets.
Right now, GRIII's main offensive contributions arise from garbage clean-ups, the transition game, and occasional drive-and-kick jumpers. I'd like to see this change going forward, as I think he's underutilzed in our normal offensive flow, but we have 4 legit scorers on the floor. It's a nice problem to have.
but if GRIII isn't going to go after those put backs on O, he damn well better get back on D. And there were a few plays where zoeller beat him down the court. a couple hustle plays here and there can be the difference between winning and losing. outside of mcgary, we had very few plays where we outhustled IU for the ball.
I was expecting Zeller to be better at getting his own shot this game...his points seemed to come off of easy put-backs and wide open dunks. Points are points, but he didn't play as polished as I expected him to. Definitely not POY
That is exactly how Zeller plays. He only put up 11 shots total in the previous 2 IU games, which means he wasn't getting those put back shots. He RARELY looks for an offensive move to get a shot.
By FAR - his best game at IU yesterday. He can look just awkward at times and be a non-factor. Does not have the consistency of Trey.
The prospect of Donnal, Irving, and Walton coming in, especially if GR3 returns, makes me think that next years team may be better. I think in these big games, we rely on Burke too much whereas next year we will be able to spread things around more.
I'm pissed at him too right now, but we will reeeeealy miss Burke.
I'm not pissed at him by any means. I think we will have more turnovers next year with Walton at the helm, but I am counting on McGary, Levert, Staukus to improve from this year and everything I have seen from Walton makes me feel that the drop off won't be as great as people think.
We will be going from a POY candidate to a Freshman, there has to be a drop off. I am just hoping that Walton will be almost as good as the Freshman Burke.
Agreed. It was like 2 years ago when our offense was basically D-Mo on the pick and roll for a layup, slip to Morgan for a dunk or find and open Hardaway for 3. When Burke came in last year, we had lots of ball movement but as he became comfortable with the pick and roll we're running that same offense again. Works better with Morgan. He sets the best screens on the team. McGary is learning though. Horford is a work in progress.
We have great talent coming in, but if we lose Burke and Hardaway then that's some major leadership being lost. Also, Burke and Hardaway are go to players. I don't see anyone right now that is near being a go to guy yet.
Probably also glad Denard is gone too....
Burke is the best point guard in the nation. Even if Walton is solid, it will be a step back at the most important position.
Not saying they fall off a cliff, but to suggest they'd be better without Burke is a bit of a stretch.
This team will both learn from tonight's loss and adapt to play a lot better when the Hoosiers visit the Crisler Center. Besides, playing Ohio and Indiana on the road have prepared this team for the intensity they will see in East Lansing.
It's OK to lose a few games early, as long as they don't lose later in the season. Most of all, this team needs a few games like this to be fully prepared for the NCAA Tournament. As long as they stay in the 1-2 seed category, they will be fine.
Just don't understand why we started settling for jumpers. That being said i think we keep getting better and hold serve back at crisler against IU. Burke has a score to settle. Also Beat Ohio!
McGary and Horford were both playing well inside with limited chances. I think it would've been worth a try.
They got clean up buckets. Neither one has a real post game to speak of.
There's always a catch 22 when it comes to post touches, we really don't have a back to the basket type of big, Morgan has some decent moves but doesn't finish all that well and Horford is a bit of the same. In our offense it's not necessarily efficient to throw the ball to a big that's more than 8 feet from the hoop because they aren't great 1 on 1 players offensively.
the combo of mcgary, horford and morgan did fine tonite. they played almost even with zoeller, stats-wise, an all american. this game was clearly on GRIII and Stauskus who were outperformed by watford and hulls by a wide margin.
Horford and McGary aren't the most talented scorers in the post. That and there was no such thing as a Zeller foul.
For jumpers because we have zero post presence and last night there was some 7 foot white dude standing in the paint waiting to disrupt our shots.
I'm sick of them running ball screen after ball screen at the point until the shot clock runs down and they have to make a contested play. Where did the drive and kick go or any other basketball play for that matter? It's the same thing they did against OSU and it just doesn't work. They need to penetrate and at times it looks like they don't even try to.
Maybe tell him to just have the team dunk on every possesion.
First, I love your username. But anyway, I'm not saying they have to do anything like that, but doing the exact opposite the entire game doesn't help either. It was almost like they didn't even want to try to get inside at times. Just my thoughts.
This confuses me about the offense. JB is known to for his motion offense and while I understand that he's ventured away from that the last few years, it seems that Michigan has nowhere to go when Burke is being effectively defended. It's too much Burke looking to get his own shot when in a traditional JB offense he would back it out and spread the floor and show that he can think three passes out.
This really is my biggest concern about this team. JB is going to have to figure out a Plan B for Burke when a team is slowing them down and forcing them into a half court game.
you do realize that IU has an all-american 7 footer standing under the basket on D waiting for anyone to drive to the hoop? he altered countless shots tonite. hence, all the misses in the paint tonite. we just needed to hit those open 3s. stauskus, thj, and griii were brutal shooting outside shots tonite.
Plenty of chances down 4 and tied in the second half to take control. Young team couldn't quite do it on the road. Not sure where some of the complaints are coming from. Plenty of iu turnovers and held under 70 points before the ft spree at the end. If Stauskas is a sophomore or junior I think we win by 10.
Ugh. Menh. Pfft.
I'm glad the next game is as soon as Tuesday so the bitter taste of this game will be gone shortly.
Much one on one and settling for jumpers when we got back into the game. Tough to watch. Hope we can figure it out.
Gotta start stronger, can't force dumb long threes, freshman need to grow up quicker. But the biggest one might be learning how to retake and own the lead. With this game and the OSU game, they were great at sticking to a gameplan on the comeback, but once they tied it or got close, they went off the rails.
All in all though, not concerned. Its a really young team that'll still learn and get better in time for the tourneys.
Frustrating in many ways, but I'm actually not worried at all. We played the team that will take over the #1 ranking in a tight game despite terrible 3-point shooting and being on the road. Get Morgan back, make our open 3s, and start a little smarter, and we win. I'm betting on us in the rematch - it always sucks to lose, but this one doesn't really get to me.
I don't understand the people saying Burke played well. He made some great plays, but I thought overall he really hurt us on both ends of the court tonight.
If you came away from that game thinking Burke hurt Michigan I can see how you have problems understanding people.
He was 9-24. That's 37%. He rarely passed the ball and killed our offensive rhythm every time we got close. Explain to me why you think he had a good game. Sure he had a better game than the freshmen, but he did not play well.
Who was he supposed to pass to? The guy who went 1-5 from 3 (0-4 before the final minute) and was 3 for 10 overall? Oh I know, the guy that was 1-6 all game and scored 2 total points. McGary had a decent game but Michigan doesn't normally play through him. Trying to put the game on his shoulders in Assembly hall would probably not have worked out well. To say Burke's number are bad suggests there was a better option and the stats don't bare that out. You find me an offensive rhythm stat that suggests Burke was a problem in this game and we can continue this debate. Was it Burke's best game? No. Was he any part of the reason that Michigan lost? No.
I certainly don't pin the whole game on him, but I don't agree with your position, if you're suggesting that our point guard should basically ignore two of our four main scorers. Even if they start poorly, you have to have confidence that they can snap out of it if you can get them some looks. I don't mind Burke taking a lot of shots, but I don't like to see him shoot threes so early in the clock. Work the ball around and then if the shot comes open later in the possession, OK.
That is a fair assessment. Burke could have and probably should have worked the clock a little better to try and find guys better looks. However, this is two games on the road where Nik has struggled mightily. He had that wide open three where he stuttered and bricked it. He seems to press a little more on the road and I'm sure Burke has noticed this and lost a little confidence in him. That doesn't mean he should ignore him completely, but there's not much Burke can do when the best shooter is that cold.
So your view is that when your teammates are struggling, just stop passing them the ball? Just stop running the offense and go 1 v. 1? The doesn't seem like a very good recipe for success, and it certainly wasn't tonight. I've already found you a stat. Burke took 24 shots including 12 threes, and didn't make very many of them. He took one third of the teams shots. Sure, he kept us in the game at times, but he also kept us out of it at times.
Burke took one third of the teams shots because he and THJ were the only consistent producers. There's nothing wrong with limiting a guy's touches that's struggling. Stauskas was struggling. THJ had a good game and Burke kept feeding him, hence the 8 assists. Just out of curiosity, if Burke had kept feeding Stauskas and Nik kept struggling would you then blame Burke for forcing the issue when it clearly wasn't working? There were quite a few problems with the offense tonight, but to say that Burke was the primary issue seems a little off.
Someone mentioned above, our offense in this game and Ohio looked terrible, lots of standing around at the three point line and watching. Johnny B. needs to get more motion going, I just thnk we stand on the 3 point line too much or just dribble too much and wait for a potential pick and roll, where's the motion?
You seem to be leaving out the 8 assists he had which is pretty damn good considering how stauskas and GRIII played.
He played better than Stauskas or GR3, but he took too many shots. He was our main source of scoring for this game and made some key plays for us that can't be overlooked.
If you shoot the ball 24 times, you're going to be your teams main source of scoring. Unfortunately for us, he only made 9 of them.
Nobody else was doing anything so what did you expect him to do? If the other guys aren't doing their part somebody has to keep us in the game. Without him we get blown out.
You are right. Without him we get blown out. With him playing unselfish basketball, we might win the game.
I don't mind Burke shooting a lot, but I dislike seeing him completely monopolize the ball on a possession and then shoot a contested three. That happened too often tonight.
Took a few bad shots but without him, we get buried. Our problem continues to be defensively. Another team shoots too high of a percentage. We are average at best defensively, you can't be average on defense and win on the road. We cannot give up 20 points in the first 4 minutes and continually rotate too slow and close out poorly.
Agree that Burke is great when he lets the game come to him, and while he had a game high in points, he was around 30% shooting because he kept forcing the issue. In the two biggest games on the road, he has really gone away from looking to create opportunities for the team and has forced bad possessions, I mean at one point trying to force a drive against 3 players on a pick and roll just made no sense.
Several comments on the leadership from Hardaway and Burke which they do provide to a certain point, but they also seem to be two of the players that will press to hard at times as well.
Robinson has been very good, but they need to get him into some situations where he can create and make some plays. He is the most athletic player on the team, and seems to only be out there to get out on the break and try to go for offensive rebounds. He needs to use his abilities to get to the basket more often. I just do not see a top 10-15 player in the draft at this point unless he can start making that transition and creating some additional shots off the dribble, etc.
They also need to work a bit more on getting ball movement vs. relying on the pick and roll for the majority of the possessions, IU had multiple open shots in the beginning of the game with wide open looks due to the extra pass.
Another area is pressure on defense could be brought up a few notches. I thought that Lavert should have gotten a few more minutes for either Stauskus or Robinson as he appears to try to defend with some urgency and attack the basket more often.
Still a long ways to go, but both this game and the OSU game were within reach with a bit more control from Burke. He needs to trust his team to make things happen through his creating open shots with his ability to drive and create vs. trying to take over.
My limited impression is that Michigan has had trouble playing its best style of team basketball in tight situations on the road. That is, against Indiana and Ohio State after closing to a tie. Of course, the road is a hard place to play.
Here's the thing about GRIII: People talk about how he's "physically ready" for the NBA. Scouts talk about him. He's good, an asset to the team... but if he goes pro the closest analogy I can think of is Marvin Williams.
Of course, if we win a title like Williams did, I don't care. GRIII is a fabulous player, but he's raw and could really use another year here. NBA players don't go 0-fer in the biggest game of the year.
I think we definitely shouldnt fill Oladipo's twitter mentions with links to Meatspin. Definitely shouldnt do it...
It's already been said but Oladipo's dunk was classless...FWIW Tom Crean's reaction as he was going in for a handshake and heard the dunk was a head turn with an expression that said "What the fuck are you doing."
Too bad Crean turned around to be a giant douche himself by quoting Bo after beating Michigan.
This was tasteless and a shot in my opinion, not a casual or uncalculated move. He is a dick and I hope we rattle their fucking molars when they come to A2
Looked to me like he was trying to shake the refs hand and got brushed off.
Obviously upset. I felt like Burke was forced into the position of doing everything. I don't know, it just seemed like the world was on his shoulders. We'll get em at home.
I think Burke forced himself into that position.
I do not agree
So what do you think? Did God make him circle around high ball screens until the shot clock ran down to 5 and take a contested step back 18-footer?
Watching Nik miss everything all first half and GR3 all game long did. That, couple with no back to the basket type post player (or philosophy) is going to force your PG into that position.
Quick question since I didn't watch the whole game: Did Morgan play and, if he did, was he hurt again? I hope not, because we need him down the stretch.
He tried to give it a go. Got in for maybe 2 minutes and then didn't play again.
He played a couple of minutes in the first half...but didn't start...he was going to be limited.
grew up tonight. We needed to get off to a strong start (didn't), limit Oladipo from taking over the game in spurts (nope) and keep Zeller off of the offensive boards (nada).
Those were the keys to the game. Most important thing now- beat Ohio.
Blah blah blah. Everyone said that after the ohio loss and they were just as unpoised tonight. Indiana was just a better team.
I'm not overly disappointed. It's so hard to win on the road in the B1G, especially at Assembly Hall. Burke and McGary played extremely well, but GRIII was nowhere to be found. A little upset about that, but he's a freshman. It happens.
We shouldn't drop any lower than 2-3, and we'll be fine as long as we don't go out and lay another egg against OSU on Tuesday. Being back in front of the home crowd against your biggest rival that gave you your first loss of the season may be exactly what this team needs to get back on track. They should come out angry and fired up, ready to make a statement. We can count on Crisler being a madhouse come 9pm Tuesday night.
I hate losing to those bastards down there. I have so much angst piled up. Fergodsake I was 15 the last time M won a game in that he'll hole. Creen looks like he should be in Sam Bernstein commercials.
Also, I think having Morgan out hurt us a little more than I expected, although our bigs played decently. Still, I think Morgan could have done better defensively against Zeller.
I screamed so much I have to sleep on the couch. Wife not happy. I need a life.
No excuses. She needs to understand!
damn...we need to learn to stop being "star struck" at the beginning of big games on the road. No reason to panic but something that must be done with such a young team.
We'll take care of , and next time in AA.
Toughest game on the schedule
The Ohio State game is arguably more important for the B1G title and a #1 seed. No shame in losing to Indiana in Bloomington, but a loss to OSU at home would seriously dent both of those goals. How the team responds to tonight's loss will tell us quite a bit about them, moreso than against the cupcakes they played after the OSU loss.
This is the stretch that is tournament prep; hard games against hard teams. Consistency over the next two weeks is key.
Glad to have another calm and collective mind around here. I don't mean that as a shot at most others around here, I'm not particularly taking this loss too well at the moment either. Life goes on and so does the College B-ball season and we all need to realize that. This was a loss from the get go and Tuesday night is a "should-be-win", in some ways more important than tonight's loss. Go Blue.
The thing I like best about college football is that every game matters. You only get one shot. You lose a big game and you are most likely out of contention for the National Championship for the year.
Um, never mind. Heh, heh.
and we did not. If you let a margin get away early, it's hard to make up late, and their inside presence was more productive in terms of points (though the low foul calls on IU is suspicious).
the most frustrating part was actually when we tied it up. Tie it up and then...give up 11 straight? Have to be better.
I do think that with Morgan in Zeller wouldn't have had so many putbacks.
going to be the Trey Burke show, he at least has to show up.
You've got to be kidding.
I actually agree with him. A lot people here seem to just look at the high point total and the three to end the half and conclude he was great. He wasn't. He shot horribly and tried to do way too much. His distribution in the last 9 minutes was nonexistent.
only 37.5%... and literally almost every play was a clear out for him. He was trying to play the hero and run the show. We lost because we didn't play solid team ball tonight. It was the Trey Burke show.
We shot poorly, they came out on fire. Then we beat them in the last 30 without our starting center for the most part. I'm pretty sure we'll be fine.
One of the youngest team in the nation in one of the toughest places to play in the country. This will happen. Need to beat the Buckeyes on Tuesday and at least one of Wisky/Sparty. Preferably both. And then win the return matchup at the end of the year and the inevitable seeming Big Ten title game. These are the two best teams and whoever wins the Big Ten Tournament is getting the Indianapolis region. Be a big advantage for us if we can get it.
If we have a start like we did tonight come tourney time, we won't get past the first round. I don't care who we're playing.
We had a start like we did tonight and tied the game with over ten left against one of the five best teams in college basketball (us, them, Florida, Kansas, and Duke w/ Kelly). Then went insane for the key stretch afterwards.
Your point is ridiculous.
Yeah, if we start like that we'll definitely lose to Alcorn State in the first round... even if that were true, why in the world would we start out playing a 15/16 seed in (most likely) Auburn Hills as poorly as we did playing #3 Indiana in Bloomington?
Not sure how this is going to go over with the rest of you, but Glenn Robinson III has no business going anywhere next year. I think he has a lot of potential but there's no way he is near being ready to play at the next level. He is at his best rebounding and put backs, open jumpshots from other people's penetration, running the floor for easy transition baskets, and playing off other people. His individual offense is quite undeveloped. Don't get me wrong, I think he still has a bright future but he has alot of work to do if he wants to play in the league. The league is all about individual offense and your ability to get your own shot that's not what he does well right now.
I made that point (sort of) above. I mean, if he is a lottery pick, he may as well go for it, but he is not in any way prepared to contribute to an NBA team in a serious way yet. That's okay, a lot of young guys aren't. But he needs time to develop.
It's not that there isn't a place for a hustle guy, someone with athleticism that will grab rebounds and make put-backs, but I don't think he will find that easy to do in the NBA.
It's nothing against him. He's a good player and a lot of fun... but then I hear people say "Top 15 draft pick" and I wonder if they're watching the same guy I'm watching.
I agree with what you're saying. This reminds me of a couple years ago and even last year when thinking about Tim Hardaway Junior. Yes, he has NBA potential but he does not have NBA quality play right now. Which by the way I still think that about tomorrow away. He just turns the ball over too much and is not as consistent with this game. That's why Trey Burke looks so good out there because his one-on-one game is that much better than everyone else's. Not hating on any of these kids as they are still kids but it's just an honest assessment of where I think there.
I would like to see some screens off the ball for some easy dunks rather than 100 screens for Burke. He was the reason we were in the game, but he also took too many shots. I'm not sure who that falls on, but I know nobody was moving off the ball a lot of the time. I don't know if that was a result of Burke not giving it up and guys getting lackadaisical or if Burke was shooting so many because they weren't moving. I can't imagine Beilein wanted the entire offense to consist of Trey jacking up step-back jumpers every possession though.
I love the swag, but if you want to flash a 3 sign or stare down your entire home crowd whenever you do something sweet, you better be able to be a functioning basketball player when on the road. My god those two guys have disappeared at ohio and indiana. Again, I like their games, and it's tough to expect much more out of 18 year olds, but if you want to act like JJ Reddick at home, you better man up and act like JJ Reddick on the road....or at least do SOMETHING.
I've always thought Robinson is pretty stoic on the court actually and could probably get into it a little more. He is known for putting up quiet points after all. Not sure if he deserves the criticism for that, although he wasn't very active tonight. And I also don't think we can blame Stauskas too much for poor shooting. We expect a lot of him but he was still a freshman in the biggest game of his life thus far.
I'm concerned about all the minutes he's putting in because we don't have a real backup for him at the 4 if we want to maintain the floor spacing offense. He's regularly playing 35+ minutes and we're up at about the number of games he would be accustomed to playing in high school. I know these guys play year round with AAU, but there's a different effort level there. Hope he's not hitting a wall, but he looked really tired tonight.
I'm concerned about all the minutes he's putting in because we don't have a real backup for him at the 4 if we want to maintain the floor spacing offense. He's regularly playing 35+ minutes and we're up at about the number of games he would be accustomed to playing in high school. I know these guys play year round with AAU, but there's a different effort level there. Hope he's not hitting a wall, but he looked really tired tonight.
burke, TJ and mcgary showed up. Everyone else got worked.
Horford was OK.
In the two losses (one in person, one from the couch) we tied both games up in the 2nd half, but just couldn't take it from there.
We need that killer instinct to close. Plain and simple. If we want to run deep in the tournament and/or win a title, you have to be ready to get punched in the mouth yet respond like nothing ever happened.
We will learn a lot more on Tuesday with our first big game at home. Regardless, our defense needs a lot of improvement, in both effort and ability. I feel like the on ball perimeter D is subpar (foot speed?) and it's hard for us to match up anywhere around the block with only one guy with in at a time with the size and strength to be effective. It's hard for me to say how good we actually are right now when I think about our potential and what we can be on the best night. Personally, I think Tuesday is a must win.
Positive thought: Robinson's chances of coming back next year are on the rise.
I really don't agree with all of the people getting worked up about Oladipo's dunk at the end. Yeah it was kind of a dick move but when you are in college and just beat the #1 team in the country, you earned the right to have fun. Why are people calling him c*nts and other things like that? You don't even know the kid.
You're on board with it being a "dick" move, but not with "c*unt". You're sexist.
And he's a classless asshole.
No, you don't do that at the end of the game when you are winning by a good margin. It was classless and Oladipo knows it.
Particularly when the other team has stopped guarding.
You're right. I don't know the kid.
But until I find out he promised a kid with cancer that he would dunk as the clock expired, he's an asshole.
generally difficult to win basketball.
Deer Antler Spray award to Stauskas and GRIII tonight. For the second time in a huge road game, they both went out and looked like deer-caught-in-the-headlights. You'd think they were true freshmen or something.
Look forward to the rematch. We'll be fine.
I noticed toward the end of the game when IU was at the free throw line, that we had 4 freshmen in there at the line (McGary, LeVert, GR3, Stauskas) and Albrecht was back there as the PG (before Burke came right back in)
Point being, we have 5 true freshmen that are significant contributors to our (currently) #1 basketball team. Worse things have happened to us than this. Our future is bright
I think the 2 fouls in the first possession really impacted the team. Burke was clearly hesitant for a while after that, Horford got pulled and I think it was a key factor to the early run.
Overall, I don't think the officiating was bad. IU was more aggressive and earned their extra FTs.
Play another close game or two, and these guys will start learning. Road games against top teams can only help in the B1G race. Losses are expected, wins are bonuses. As of now, only UM (Minny), MSU (Wisky), and Wisconsin (IU) have quality road wins.
Didn't get enough players involved offensively, relied to much on burke. Didn't move well offensively or defensively at times, allowed easy baskets by Zeller. Too many possessions one pass and a shot, no flow, movement kills this......
I love McGary's energy and hustle but twice he left Zeller to "help" on a drive to the basket that had zero chance of going in, so of course when the ball comes off the rim there's Busted Nose to clean up the miss.
Box out Zeller and Michigan rebounds that ball, down two points.
I missed what he did at the end
Threw down a windmill slam after the buzzer expired rather than acting like he'd been there before.
Hopslam. Oh wait I thought this was a drinking thread
I'm on number 4.
We didn't shoot well and they did. We missed Morgan's D in the post. We have a young team with plenty of time to improve. Go Blue.
Burke took way too many poor shots. Needed more penetration and less jump shooting.
Like the mental toughness that they showed, just like in the OSU game in coming back. But they did not play smart.
Not only were Stauskas and GR3 invisible on offense but they were used on D too. Played freshman which is gonna happen. Oh well.
I don't have all that big of a problem with Zeller's putbacks. He's a beast and they are 6th in OReb so giving up about 35% on those is not unexpected or that bad.
Officiating was horrible. Seen it so many times at Indiana it is just a running joke.
F Oladipo. And someone please make Vitale retire.
Bit of bad luck as Indiana isn't going to hit 88% of their 25 FTs very often. We never drove to the rim for easy 2s in the endgame, just more 3s, not a good idea.
Missed about 5 shots right at the rim too in the first half which was part of how they built their lead.
You play bad and you lose sometime. I think the bigger concern is that when we run into adversity Burke does the heroball thing and runs clock down and then shoots a 3. Not a winning strategy against other top teams. Need to run the offense like normal.
It's what makes me a little worried about the tourney. This team is talented and can play with anyone but in a tight game heroball could be the undoing of this team in the tourney.
This is a 4 game stretch where we knew going in that 2-2 was a likely outcome. The OSU game is more important than this one because we need to hold serve at home. Beating IU in Bloomington would have been awesome but was not critical to us winning the B1G as long as we can do our thing in AA. Can't lose both games to OSU, IU or MSU though, which is why Tuesday is so important. Win the next 2 games and we'll be OK.
care if Burke had 20+ points... He shot only 37.5% and distributed it terribly. His shot selection, like almost every game now, was terrible again, and just about every play was a clear out for him. If we are going to win a BIG Championship, let alone a National Title, we need to learn to play smart, team ball. It's not I on... It's WE ON. Tough loss, but let's come back and beat Ohio on Tuesday... and Oladipo is a douche.
Nobody was moving on offense tonight so he didnt the opportunity to distribute like he normally does.
Dear Hockey Bear: Y U NO BOMB ASSEMBLY HALL???
Michigan is a GREAT team. I think they did extremely well responding to Indiana's insanse first 8 minute flawless run. IMO they improved because they responded fast and brought that 13 point deficiet down to 4 at the half.
I think Michigan needs to learn how to stop huge runs and stop being so flat to start games. I think in our 2 losses this year, that is what killed us.
Michigan has the talent, the coaching, and the players to learn from this and become better. Please remember that this is still a VERY YOUNG TEAM. We are still at top 4 team after this loss (I believe Kansas will be ranked 5th after their loss).
If Michigan can learn to stop early runs like Ohio and Indinia have done against us. We will the tourney. Seriously, that is the only thing holding this team "slightly" back imo.
We rebounded from the deficiet WAY faster than we did against Ohio against an Indiana team team that played LIGHTS OUT.
Michigan will learn from their mistakes and will make a HUGE tourney run from this. Indiana WILL be scared to play us the last game of the season.
It seems to me he forces a lot of shots, and he just is not a great shooter. I get nervious when he takes a key shot. GR111, I know he had a bad night but he has got to hustle down on D.
You need players who want the ball when things are tight. He and Burke were the only ones who did tonight. Stauskas got taken out of his game by a guy he had 6 inches on that had his ankles broken by a Butler walk on. GRIII just looked tired and had no interest in attacking Watford on the rare occasions he had the ball.
0 for 2 vs quality opponents on the road? Minny is overrated.
Yet minny beat state. Would you say state is garbage?
Yes he had some mistakes defensively tonight but but he is a guy that's only going to get better, and I think a lot better. He is consistent because his work ethic is consistent. At this stage of his career his game is very dependent on being an energy player and he does very well with that. I think as he gets into a college weight room and then continues to work on his game with some finesse he is going to be very very good.
Overall I'm not too bummed this is not a bad lose! Living 40 miles from bloomington I'm gonna have to hear about how iu knocked off another no 1 team! If history repeats itself the last no 1 team they beat won the national title so I'm hoping!!! Slow start really hurt us and horrible shooting from behind the arc! I've watched iu play several games and outside of put back dunks and a couple of three foot shots Zeller is overrated. Think we beat ourselves tonight! Let them enjoy no1 for the week! On to the buckeyes lets bounce back home and stay in hunt for B1G championship we'll get iu at home and that will shut up the idiots here where I live!
didn't handle the environment early better. Thought they had learned that lesson at ohio.
They actually outscored IU by 4 after that start.
Hard to beat a team that starts out shooting 100% (Arkansas!).
The more I watch this team the more it sticks out the Trey Burke will be gone at the end of the year. Other than that, everyone should come back because they are not ready.
Player of the Game (Michigan Edition) definitely goes to McGary... Dude played his butt off tonight, and gave the most effort on the court by far.
Hull hit key shots while Stauskus and GRIII did not. That was the game to me. Those two have to play better.
But if all these "learning experiences" don't become "lessons learned" soon, we're going to be looking up in the standings. But win 2 of the next 3 and we're still in the hunt. Show we've learned something and pull off all three and the rest of the conference can start worrying.
It's going to be sweet to stick it to Indiana at home the last game of the season to win the Big Ten title.
We have to play a little nastier and with a little more attitude on the road. Overall I think the boys competed well. Michigan was always going to lose games in the B1G. Indiana travels to Ann Arbor in a month. We will see what happens then. Beat Ohio.
Lose at that place. Beat ohio.
was terrible everywhere... have to play better and smarter team ball. I'm expecting everybody to be back and ON for the OHIO game Tuesday... 87-59 victory at home. Go blue.
Anyone freaking out on this is pretty ridiculous.
I rather NOT have #1. Huge target and provides extra motivation for the team you're playing against. Like Trey said, "They don't hang banners for being #1 in February".
The only thing this effects is the B1G picture. Luckily, crean can't win on the road mixed with them playing at ohio, at state, at wisconsin and at Michigan which I all see as losses for them, takes them out of the title picture. Possibly. Unless there is a 4-way-tie-fushion-cuisine for the title.
Michigan just has to take care of business the rest of the way, ESPECIALLY AT HOME, and I think they will win this championship. Maybe outright. That's what I'm focused on. Anything after the B1G Championship is icing on the cake for me at least.
Yes I know basketball isn't just about winning the conference title but winning them is not easy. To me, winning a conference title ALMOST trumps that of a national title. You have to get hot at the right time and win 6 in a row for a national title. In a conference, you have to weather the storm over 18 games. Not something Michigan has done very often which is why I value it the way I do. Especially winning it in a conference like this.
Oh, and also: BEAT OHIO
IU doesn't have to play @Wisconsin this year. Which is extraordinarily fortunate for them since Ryan has beaten Crean like 11 times in a row.
They do still have to go to Minnesota though FWIW.
Ah my bad. I must have read the schedule wrong when ESPN put it on screen for 2 seconds.
And really, all you have to do is be a top-four team to gain a one seed. Not worried. Our hardest four games are now behind us, and if we can win at home, we shouldn't have a hard time winning the B1G championship!
Sucks to lose, but the team played well after the initial surge.
Burke was really good as usual, would like more dribble penetration and dish from him.
Impressed with McGary, he is really turning it on.
Robinson showed tonight he isn't ready for the next level yet. Unable to create his own shot, but still shows a lot of athleticism.
Looking forward to Tuesday.
impressed with Burke on the bigger level of play... Sure he had 20+ but only shot 37.5% and took 24 shots (12 threes). Tried to play hero in a game that needed to be won by the team.
It certainly wasn't the most efficient 25 points, but he did have more points than FGA which isn't inefficient either. And he had 8 assists. Trey wasn't the problem, our third and fourth leading scorers going 4/16 from the field for 12 points were.
Also a little food for thought: the last #1 ranked team to lose at indiana was kentucky last year.
Didn't kentucky win something in April?
Let's see how the team grows and develops after this loss. A very young team found its footings and bearings and came back and made it a pretty close game on the road against a top 3 team where no Michigan team has won since 1986.......Let's see how we do Tuesday night against OSU, and move on from there.....Saw 4 freshmen on the floor a few times, learning how to play on the road in the B1G......We missed Morgan a lot tonight, and he should be back for Tuesday. Beat Ohio, and move on.
The death of this team will be on the glass.
If they would've worn the new all maize uniforms, this board would be going insane with Adi-hate.
Indiana played really well and deserves to be the new No. 1.
that were made as a team both in transition and in the half court showed greatness in the potential of this team, but we lost because most of the plays made down the stretch didn't attempt to unleash that potential. As long as we develop and utilize all aspects of the team, we will be fine... but if we try crap like we did tonight, it may end up looking like the game against Ohio in the tournament last season. We have to stay focused.
Young team learning to play on the road. Looked better than the OSU game and will continue to grow. Watch out NCAA tourney!
Im frustrated, but I wanted to chime in and say, this is such a great problem to have. 5 years ago, we went 10-22. I remember the year we finally got back to the dance and how excited I was. Now, we're EXPECTING a number ons seed. Amazing.
Snowflakes? This game really didn't matter, I have to keep telling myself that. It's hard to fight the ESPN & BTN hype machines. It comes down to who in that top tier of teams is going to steal a win on the road or who will drop a game they shouldn't at home. With our team being so young, there's a lot to like. McGary was solid. Horford looked good. I think this Morgan injury could be a good thing (if it's really only minor) because Horford and McGary continue to get better. Robinson and Stauskas are too young to really judge, just had bad games.
My only concern is that we opened the game poorly in our two big road games thus far. This team needs to come out angry and borrow some swagger from the Fab 5. Here's to hoping we trash Ohio State on Tuesday and win by 50 at the Breslin Center when that game rolls around. Can't sleep on Wisconsin either, but I won't blame you if you did, so boring to watch.
Anger and swagger won't do shit for us if we don't shoot better. We shot like crap against OSU and shot little better tonight.
Side note, did anyone realize Burke is a III? So we have Trey III and Tre III. How sweet is that?
Burke's real name is Alfonso Clark Burke III. So Trey is just his nickname
In 57 minutes against OSU and IU, Stauskas is 3-13 overall from the field and 1-8 from the 3 for 10 points total. That doesn't help much on the road against good teams. When you combine that with Robinson's disappearance tonight and Morgan's near-absence, you've got a really steep hill to climb.
Dude plays with heart and hustle. He busted it all over the court. Horford didn't impress me very much. There were a lot of times he seemed to want the ball out of his hands as soon as he got it. Also, love McGary looking for the outlet after most rebound. Beilien wants him off the bench for the energy he gives. In our 2 biggest road games to date, we have come out and been out-hustled and somewhat punched in the mouth the first few minutes. Let McGary start the game and provide that boost of energy from the get-go. In the end, Go Blue!! Still have a good opportunity to win regular season and tournament championships. Looking forward to March/April!!
He had some nice rebounds and was a factor in the paint- both on offense and defense. He just needs more PT to gain some experience and composure. The only problem was the offense looked stagnant at times because they insisted on the high ball screen anywhere around the perimeter. It also doesn't help when Horford/McGary/Morgan play the role of Graham Brown and are the swingman at the top of the key. IU was able to pack the lane in those instances.
I don't understand why GR3 got 40 minutes in that game, he wasn't effective at all. They could have went with a lineup of Horford and McGary for rebounds and inside presence and Burke, Hardaway, and Stauskas on the perimeter. Try Levert more or something but don't keep him in the game when the stage was obviously to big for him today. Oh and Olidipo is a douche and Crean is very annoying even more so than Izzo!
Agreed. See what he said to the announcer on court after the game? My brother in-laws preach "The team, the team, the team". Love that the harbaugh bros channel Bo.
Things Bo taught him but rips Bo's program after Bo had passed, great character.
No shame in losing to a top 3 team on the road. Gotta bounce back quickly and get ready for Ohio. Michigan has two losses - both to top 15 teams on the road. No need to panic yet. Put these teams on a neutral court and Michigan may very well win it.
Correction: Two Top 10 teams on the road come tomorrow
Stauskas apparently has the flu, couldn't practice yesterday was lucky to go today, according to Beilein in the post game.
So yeah, one starter out, another not at full strength. In Assembly. We're fine.
Stauskas and GRIII didn't play like their usual selves. Had we gotten our usual production out of them, this wouldn't have been close.
But they are freshmen, playing on the road, in one of the toughest places to play. It's completely understandable that they were off their game.
In March, this experience is going to be useful to both of them. Sometimes you have to falter first in order to gain your footing.
I thought the biggest problem besides the lack of interior defense, is that there is no inside-outside game. There were very few open shots and if Burke wasn't shooting in the second half, it seemed like no one else would. Robinson disappeared and Stauskas couldn't get a decent look all night. It just seems like when a game is tight, there is very little offensive flow. And every team seems to pressure our shooters all over the court now.
The team played hard and it's tough to win at Assembly Hall, but I think we definitely had a shot until the last two minutes. Gotta win on Tuesday. Go Blue!
looked like the crowd was overwhelming for GRIII. On defense I saw him standing directly under the net when IU was passing the ball around the perimeter. We looked flat and Burke has to drive to the hoop more. The crowd definitely overwhelmed this team.
Against really good teams we have looked timid on the road. I think ultimately we will be helped by having to play a couple brutal road games come tournament time. I guess the one thing that becomes apparent on the road is the youth of this team, especially with Stauskas and GR III. I would love to see THJ, as the elder statesman among the starters, take more control during those times.
Far from me to second guess our Coach (he has proven himself to be pretty stinking good after all), but I wouldn't mind him running more offense through THJ early during road games, when the team seems to be a little nervous. THJ seems like he is fairly unflappable. Then again, maybe the idea is not to use him as a crutch and allow the team to progress so we aren't dependent on any one guy.
Trey Burke did great to keep us in it. You can tell that fire is there to win, even if he doesn't show it on his face. Can't wait to see him on Tuesday. I expect him to be lethal.
This loss stings a little, but it is tempered by knowing that we now have a program that can compete with anybody and will for a long time.
we can still crush duke
Apparently anyone can crush Dook.
One silver lining is that, coming off of this loss, the team will be really fired up at home vs. Ohio State. I would NOT want to be the Buckeyes this Tuesday.
(As opposed to those every other days of my life that I don't want to be a Buckeye, obvs.)
And we win this one. We started off 1/10 from 3, a healthy amount of those open looks that just missed. This team played well enough to win but they just didn't have the cards. I'll take it.
Also, IU was shooting 100% the first several minutes of the game.
I'm not as annoyed about this loss as I was about the Ohio loss. Assembly Hall is one of the toughest places to play in college basketball, especially for a young team. What we are witnessing is Beilein pulling a rabbit out of a hat with a talented but inexperienced team that doesn't have a whole lot of depth. These are the types of games in which Beilein's magic reaches its limits.
Still very impressed with this team. They're playing way over their heads, and that's all due to Beilein.
I disagree. I think it is a young team that is learning how to win and scratching the surface of what they are capable of doing.
I think that's why he meant. They're already playing at a level they normally wouldn't get to at this point in the career if not for excellent coaching. Another year of experience and the team could be scary good.
Our theoretical or hypothetical B10 champ was to be the team that defended its home court and lost road games only to contenders. Maybe not now. Indiana lost at home already. OSU and MSU have road losses to non-contenders. Until Michigan loses at home or loses on the road to a non-contender they are still in the driver's seat. I say recalibrate because all other contenders already have demerits, Michigan just lost to the only contender with a home loss, and has only one chance left for a break-out win, at contender MSU. I hope I can sleep now with that off my mind.
You can't hold that against us. We've only played 2 "Top Contenders", and they were both on the road.
MSU still has Minny, us twice, IU again, Wisky, and @OSU.
OSU still has at Crisler, twice against IU, Wisky, @Minny, and @MSU.
IU still has a return trip to Crisler, plus @MSU, twice against OSU, and @Minny
By comparison, we have OSU, IU, and MSU at home, with only trips to Madison and the Breslin as our tough games
... we are in the same league as anyone in the country (unlike football and Alabama, say). We didn't play well - maybe Indiana is better, maybe home court, maybe the refs - but we had our chances.
The sequence I remember is Burke nailing a deep three to pull to within 3 ... and then promptly losing IU's best shooter in the corner and having Hall stick the 3 to push it back to 6 and kill our momentum again. That's just losing your head in the heat of the moment - I'm sure that everyone was told not to help off that guy - but it really was the one thing we couldn't do there.
IU benefited from having a useful "default" on offense - post to Zeller or clear a spot for Oladipo - and we didn't. All the screens were contested and the passing angles were defensed, and IU re-routed penetration right to the big shot-blocker. They were very good.
Hope the rematch goes better, and we beat OSU!
followed by Beilein going to the 1-3-1 for the only time in the game and Hulls nailing a 3 from the corner. IIRC Hulls snuck along the baseline from the opposite corner and nobody really noticed.
Though a few mins were left, that play was the dagger.
For those who said that we probably win if a few more baskets go in, the numbers actually support this. We attempt an average of 56 FGs per game and make an average of 28, but in this game, we attempted 70 and made 30, so we weren't getting much return on the extra attempts. It's a similar story with three-pointers - our average in-conference is 7 for 18, and in this game, we went 7 for 23. Definitely, a few more of those go in and this could be a different result.
It's difficult to be upset though - an away game in a conference that is #1 in almost every measure of conference power is going to be a tough game. One glaring stat might be that it took us 70 shots to get 73 points, so if they can fine tune the things which make Michigan's offense ruthlessly efficient, you make a few more of the shots mentioned above and you possibly win this one. The other glaring stat is that Indiana went to the line literally over three times more than we did, with almost one quarter of their points coming off FTs - that ratio is tough to overcome.
In any case, you take what you learn here and hopefully roll it into a win at Crisler on Tuesday in what is possibly the most brutal stretch of the schedule.
I don't know how many of those last 14 consecutive free throws were intentional, but it seems like they ought to be in a separate category. At a certain point our only hope was to swap threes for free throws in the hope that they might miss one. There is a free throw advantage for any team that has such a high average margin of victory, I should think.
IU and OSU beat us because they played defense something we don't do well we kept leaving shooters open for 3 pointers and we got punked inside the paint. All that we played we played on the road is crap Belien just don't know how to play defense