a terrible blight on our fine country
Post game thoughts IU
Bad shooting and hero ball. That is all.
By all the fouling Michigan did in the final 2 minutes. At one point late in the 2nd half, fouls for the half were pretty close and both teams were in the bonus. Biggest reason for FT discrepancy besides that was IU going to the basket more aggressively than Michigan. Burke and company were launching too many perimeter jumpers.
I can't find the stat, but I could have sworn in the 2nd half when they said "Indiana will be in the bonus the rest of the way" the graphic showed Indiana with only one team foul.
six of those fouls on us, which IU converted into 12-12 from the line, were intentional on our part and came during the last 1:42 of the game. They "won" the battle insofar as they made their free throws down the stretch but its not like there was a big disparity in the number of fouls called or drawn until the end.
Missed Morgan defensively...gotta learn how to play in a hostile environment.
Eh, I know what you mean but Mitch made a FEW plays that Jordan wouldn't have made. Kinda missed Jordan but I don't think he was a difference in the game that was played tonight. Just my humble opinion.
I know it. But I feel while Mitch makes the hustle plays, Morgan tends to stay home and boxes out, rebounds, etc.
I just feel like Zeller got a lot more easy looks than he deserved.
True. Now that you say that I think we did give Zeller a couple gifts on Orebs/put-backs that maybe were a factor of Mitch being the Big Man versus Jordan being in there.
Those two Zeller dunks off of missed Oladipo layups struck me a place where Morgan probably would have made a smarter play. I think overall though, the dropoff from Morgan to Horford was very small.
Saying that Zeller got those put back dunks b/c of McGary is completely incorrect. The guards were getting beat off the dribble, and McGary was doing the correct thing by sliding over and providing help defense. By doing this, of course, he leaves Zeller free. Someone else is supposed to rotate down to pick up Zeller, but a lot of these were bang-bang plays and there was no time for anyone to rotate down and put a body on Zeller.
So you are left with a bit of a catch-22. The Indiana player has a step on his defender, and if Belein tells McGary not to help, he will be able to take a high percentage lay-up/close shot. On the other hand, if McGary goes over and helps, he makes the shot much tougher by contesting it, but he leaves Zeller alone for a potential rebound.
I don't know of many coaches who would tell their big men NOT to help on a guard who has penetrated. You'd rather make them take a tough shot (which McGary did successfully multiple times) and risk the offensive rebound than allow them to take the easier layup when they have a step on their defender.
So I wouldn't blame McGary for that at all, and I think Morgan would have been doing the same things were he in the game. And if you look at it, at least a couple of those O-Rebs went RIGHT to Zeller, they couldn't have been more perfect if they were passed to him intentionally. It happens like that sometimes when you allow penetration....tough to blame the big guy for something he doesn't have control over.
Help D has to be there. If they're not, people would be asking, "where's the help, we're getting killed off the dribble!"
Yep. Mitch made some awesome hustle plays out near halfcourt, but he failed to put a body on Zeller way too many times.
See my above, probably too long post. McGary was bruising with Zeller all night! Knocked him down several times, was generally pretty physical. What do you want him to do, let Oladipo get a lay-up or dunk?!? McGary has to leave his man to help, it is not his fault that he has to do that.
Next time a big guy gets a put-back dunk in any game you are watching, before just automatically saying "Wow Big Guy X didn't box his guy out," rewind the DVR and watch why his man left him. Sure, it could be due to a mistake, but most of the time it will be because he had to help on penetrating ball handlers, as McGary did multiple times tonight.
I know that was true some of the time. Sure, if he's in position he needs to rotate and deny penetration. But there were a few plays where he wasn't in great position to help out and left Zeller anyway. He did nothing but take himself out of the play when that happened.
I respectfully disagree :)
It doesn't matter if you are not "in great position to help" or not, especially if you are the closest help defender available; missing a help rotation on defense makes coaches very angry. One of the plays I remember specifically, Zeller and McGary were on the weakside block. The Indiana ball handler (I think Oladipo) drove baseline and looked like he would have an uncontested layup or reverse layup. Mitch is not in great position to help there, but he is still the closest help defender to the ball. SOMEONE has to help there, and I very well may be wrong, but I think that guy is McGary for that play. I for one would rather have McGary make the initial shot tougher rather than just give up the deuce.
Zeller was smart, he dove right behind McGary, as he should have done, and picked up the easy one-handed flush when the ball bounced right to his side of the rim.
There were a few longer shots where Morgan was helping off though where he got under the basket and didn't move Cody back out of the way. Or whoever was down by the basket, thus they got a few easier rebounds than if he had positined himself better on those longer shots. I don't know if this is what the other poster is talking about, but I did see this. It wasn't the end of the world kind of stuff, but he's still got some work to do on positioning on some shots. So it's not necessarily about the help off, at least what I saw. And again, that was only a vew few times, which is going to happen every once in a while anyways.
Yeah, I noticed that, too, and I agree. It seems like McGary is more active than Morgan, but he has a tendancy to stray a bit at times, while Morgan is more solid and "stay-at-home".
To me, that is a separate issue than rotating to provide help on a ball-handler attacking the rim. Giving up easy layups drives me nuts and I always want my big men to help and contest at the rim. Well....in a perfect world, no opposing guards would get into the paint to begin with.
On that play, though, THJ was long enough to force Oladipo into a very difficult contested reverse layup. McGary's help didn't fundamentally affect the shot to any degree. Now, that's a really difficult split second decision for a freshman, but I think it's fair to say that McG's first instinct is to help and at times that can unbalance the defense.
That is tough to say. THJ does have some nice length, but Oladipo was pretty much at or past his shoulder, right? Coula been a foul, or maybe you are right and he could force the miss.
I do agree that McGary's first instinct seems to be to help, but I also suspect that the coaching staff encourages helping, too. McGary has been consistently helping on penetrators all year, and I'd think that if Belein didn't want him doing that, he'd either tell him to stop, or bench him when he did it.
I didn't think he ever got his shoulder past and that THJ was contesting. At any rate, it's a split second decision. At least he went strong with the help when he went, rather than sitting in no man's land.
True, you never want to half-go, half-stay. Whatever you decide in that split second, just do it. And Mitch did.
When he was supposed to most of the time. The guards closed out poorly, gave Indiana the middle forcing our bigs to help.however, Mitch did help unnecessary like 1-2 times which led to dunks. Our problem is defensively, we are average at best. Tough to win on the road when you are average defensively.
I disagree...the guards got beat baseline quite a bit and McGary attacked the shot...no one came down and helped on Zeller
I didn't count how many times we were beat middle or sideline, nor do I know what coach B teaches, force baseline or middle, all I can say is that are close-outs were sloppy and our weak side defense and rotation was too slow.
four buckets that were not O-Reb dunks. MM was fronting Zeller and/or trying to steal the ball when IU lobbed it into the post. This worked to prevent IU from having much in the way of post entry pass-initiated offense. Zeller only had one make that came as a result of a traditional post move (that pretty little fall-away shot) and he had no assists where the ball goes in and he kicks it out to an open man after the D collapses. Zeller's taller and has a great post game so using MM's quickness to try to deny him the ball seems like a reasonable course of action. Unfortunately, that strategy drew MM out of position for defensive rebounding and help defense several times. Pick your poison against a team as good as IU - Michigan just didn't knock down enough shots to keep up, unfortunately.
I don't understand how people disrespect Jordan so much. It's crazy the lack of respect he gets from Michigan fans. He was the difference. That and GRIII not ever showing up for the game. They should have just left him out. Unfortunately they couldn't since they didn't have Morgan, so they need Horford and Mitch at the 5. Otherwise, they could have taken GRIII out for one of those two while Morgan was the the 5. At least one of them could have scored ONE freaking point in the first 20 minutes.
I don't think people disrespect Morgan. I think he is greatly appreciated and is probably the best overall option at C. You know what you are getting out of him and he plays solid. McGary and Horford provide more explosive options but less tested. However, I think the point being made was that we did miss Morgan but that wasn't the difference in the game. On a lot of those uncontested dunks Zeller was making, it was the guard allowing penetration and McGary or Horford having to help with no one moving down on Zeller, as mentioned by another poster above. Maybe Morgan would not have helped on that last dunk and been able to box out Zeller but having Morgan wouldn't have made much of a difference since he probably would have helped most of the time. There was an offense rebound or two that Morgan probably would not have given up but the difference was probably Stauskas and GRIII having really bad games and Michigan settling for too many jumpshots and missing the open jumpshots. We could have been leading at half if we hadn't gone 1-9 from 3, with many of those being wide-open looks. If we are missing open jumpshots it is tough to beat elite teams. Stauskas not being able to manhandle Hulls was probably where we really lost out. That was a match-up we needed a win on and we didn't get it (10 versus 11 points but Stauskas shot 3-10 and Hulls shot 3-5). However, it was a close game and anything really could have been the difference maker.
Zeller doesn't get as many dunks off the offensive glass if Jordan Morgan played regular minutes.
Nooooooooooooooo, this is not right!!!! I'd have to go back to the film to verify, but my imperfect memory is telling me that all of Zeller's put back dunks happened when McGary rotated to help on a penetrating ball handler! Morgan would have done the same thing! It's proper defense!
I don't think anyone is disrespecting Morgan, he is a very solid defensive player and a key member of the team. No reason to pile on Mitch for rotating on defense, though!
It'd be easier for Mitch to stick on Zeller and allow the ball handler to get the easy lay-up. Then casual observers would call out the on-ball defender for allowing the penetration, and no one would be criticizing McGary for "leaving" Zeller.
Can you tell I used to be a big man? :)
I don't think anyone is piling on Mitch. Just saying that Morgan seems a bit better in those situations. No fault in how Mitch played for pkaying in an insane environment against a fantastic team. Especially since he had to be extra careful not to foul since Morgan was out. If Morgan could go, I think Mitch would have been a bit more agressive and not so tempered. Not that he wasn't pushing Cody around some.
The point is that Mitch made the right plays in coming in to stop the ball handler at the expense of putting himself out of position for the rebound. Given the options of letting them score on the drive or the putback, I'll take the putback every time.
I totally agree, you have to play help side defense, and then someone needs to rotate to help down on that putback as best they can. Now, usually those putbacks are so fast that it's insanely hard to do, so I'm not faulting anyone. They just got a lot of nice, lucky opportunities. Sometimes the ball just bounces the wrong way(or other words IU got a lot of bounces). Not much you can do about that, other than give your best effort and keep on playing.
You create your own luck. Dribble penetration = good things.
What happened? Did you shrink?
Haha, a little bit the opposite of that...
Where I think Morgan is undervalued, and I noticed this for the one offensive set he came in, is that his screens at the top of the key are more solid and effective than the younger guys. He anticipates where he needs to be to make contact better and makes sure to stay set through the contact with the ballhandler's defender. Mitch often releases a fraction of a second too early allowing the on-ball defender to come over the screen without much difficulty. Makes it tougher for Trey to play his game, IMO.
I agree that McGary was leaving his picks too soon, and I agree that Morgan is a better screener. But it is on the ball handler to rub his guy off (that's what she said, I know) the screener's shoulder. Screener can't move unless he wants to commit a foul.
Yes, he's undervalued in terms of the screens and his general fluency with the offense. He's also undervalued on defense. Both JB and Burke have referred to him as the defensive glue who makes sure guys are in the right spot. I think he would have helped more than Horford tonight.
is pretty masterful in his picks. Several times I noticed McGary leave his just a moment too soon. McGary had a great game, though. The point is really not either/or but that we just needed Morgan, too. Still, Morgan out has shown how much more McGary and Horford can do--big silver lining, hopefully, down the road.
Magna cum laude from the Caron Butler University of How to Finish Games
Burke is the truth. I will miss him. GRIII needs to come back next year to erase the bad taste from this performance. Oladipo is a douchenozzle. Officiating was pretty even no matter what people say.
The officials weren't bad but this statisic indicates Indiana was given a bit more foul calls in shooting situations.
It was like 7 FTs to 16 before we started fouling at the end.
was pretty fairly officiated. I mean, as good as we can expect to get playing in a road game in this conference.
for being in Bloomington the refs had as good a game as possible (only exception is the ridiculous Oladipo continuation 3 point play - which if it was a continuation meant he took 4 steps to the basket !!!).
Bottom line - Staukus is a FRESHMAN. The 2 biggest games of the year he's so geeked that he is lost out there. He had 3 wide open looks from distance in the first 7 minutes that he NEEDS to hit at least 2. The perimeter was available, but IU didn't need to be concened since we were 2 for 11. Hitting those shots may have opened up the inside for GR3 - who could also be described as a freshman in this game. If GR3 is outmatched by Wadford - then he's not ready for the NBA ... so at least he'll be back. On the other hand Trey can start in the NBA right now ... 90% chance he's gone after this year.
DAMN IT - we need to win one of these BIG GAMES !!!!!
But think about it. IU attacked the basket a lot more than we did and posted up Zeller and Watford frequently. We mainly settled for outside shots. There were a couple of times where I thought we got fouled inside with no call (Horford definitely did on one play) but overall I wouldn't expect us to have as many FTs the way we played.
Indiana was so much more aggressive than Michigan was that that count isn't shocking at all.