this may be of some local interest
Gosh, please win RR. While I think Harbaugh is a fantastic coach, I don't think I could stomach another system transition where we have this guy running off-tackle in a power-I set...
i think that a coaching transition would probably provide us with a coach who isn't stupid enough to run this guy up the middle on 3rd and 1, so if anything, that part of the game is a big improvement.
If only Vincent Smith hadn't been given the ball so often -- THAT was the problem.
Something tells me Harbaugh and one Stephen Hopkins could have a very good relationship...
You mean S-Train. Still wish this guy would wear 32. Every time I see him run it reminds me of Anthony Thomas.
Hopkins would be great in Harbaugh's system, not to mention that Toussaint, Shaw and Cox. Our tackles are pretty beastly too. I'm sure Lewan would excel in a pro-style system.
(1) If DB cans Rich Rod, there better be a shoe-in waiting to fill the void. This is not a time to hire a project coach.
(2) You better believe Harbaugh would love to be "the savior of michigan". If JH gets the nod, he's going to rob DB blind for it. They will have to shell out for Jim if they want to keep him away from the NFL. (this could be a factor when it comes to feasibility of signing him).
a bonus item:
I think Harbaugh could create a hybrid spread/pro style offense to fit to Tate (and maybe Devin?) I think the necessary passing skills are in place with Forcier, and Harbaugh could actually build an offense based on that ability. I highly doubt the transition on offense would be nearly as bleak as you might think. He would inherit weapons.
Your point about the hybrid offense is good however Devin will be the QB, Tate will be lucky to be the backup. Look at Andrew Luck's measurables, he is just a physically Mature DG. The way Harbaugh plays Luck would be very conducive to Gardner's skills. Forcier is not built to throw the ball down field and stay in the pocket while trying to see over our tall lineman in play-action, which is a huge staple of Harbaugh's offense. I really think Harbaugh could come in and Win 9 or 10 next year. We have a favorable schedule and a ton of experience coming back.
Why do you think Harbaugh can win 9 or 10 next year? Is he miracously going to fix the defense? If you think Harbaugh could win that many games, how many games do you think Coach Rod would win with his own players.
I love this - we've been watching this mess for three years. We know the players on D and what they can and can't do. And suddenly Harbaugh makes us winners by taking us away from the offense that is leading the NCAA? OK.
Not one post above this mentions Denard, one of the 3 most dangerous players in the NCAA. Whether or not we should fire RR, you people are losing your minds.
Denard's amazing personal statistics have done nothing for the win-loss column that Tate didn't do as a Freshman with a worse offensive line.
But that is the list. It's Harbaugh or Rich Rod comes back, end of story.
One thing Dave Brandon has done over his career is to have a strategic plan in place that implements his vision and makes his company competitive in the long run. Although I would really hate going through another coaching change, I think if DB can get Jim Harbaugh before he bolts to the NFL, he would probably be best for the program and the University in the long run. If DB can't get Harbaugh, I feel we need to stay with RR for fourth year.
Gary Peterson TCU
I think this is doubtful after the concussion incident.
...and it is not from all the beer yesterday or the game on Saturday. I just want Dec. 1 to be here so we can get all this settled.
To answer the question. Harbaugh would be #1 on the list and unless his ultimate goal is the NFL he would come back home. He has a profound love for Michigan and views it as the ultimate bastion of college football.
I also want Dec. 1 to be here so that this is decided.
Thanks for the serious reply - as a follow-up question, I have heard so many people say that Harbaugh considers Michigan to be his dream college job. What is this based upon? Also, I have heard that his family loves Palo Alto. Any idea on how this would factor in?
He grew up here, went to Pioneer; played his college ball here; loved Bo like a father; has always remained involved with the football program and the University; was deeply hurt when Loeffler got the QB coaches job over him because he wanted to be part of this program and he has repaired the bridges that were burnt with is comments regarding academics. In addition you have an AD with a direct lineage to Bo which would mean a lot.
Finally he has a huge ego and desire to be great. To paraphrase what Don Nehlen said as part of the RR hiring process and holds true in this case. "You win at [insert school here], you walk on water in [insert city or state]. You win at Michigan, you walk on water. Period."
"has always remained involved with the football program and the University"
"he has repaired the bridges that were burnt with is comments regarding academics."
When did he do this?
I don't want Dec. 1 to be here. That would mean the regular season is over :(.
oh pick me!
I think there are going to be disgruntled people posting on this one.
Yes, I imagine that many disgruntled people (of which I have recently become one) will be posting on this topic. Is there anything wrong with that?
Our program is going through a difficult time period. There is a lot of media speculation - as well as speculation from many in our fanbase, alumni and students - that our coach MAY be fired at the end of the season. Not sure why some people on this blog find this to be an inappropriate topic to discuss. For those that think thatb this topic is not interesting, I tried to make the title descriptive enough that you wouldn't feel compelled to click.
I was just thinking that maybe it's a bit too early to start speculation on who a possible replacement could be when we still have 4 games left. The loss is still very sore why pile on right now?
my flyweights just finished the season and only averaged allowing 13 points per game.
Is going to get ugly fast. I personally would imagine if RR gets fired it will be because the blue hairs finally formed up a lynch mob and put pressure on Brandon (first time they've stood in awhile). If the blue hairs are putting pressure on the AD (via donation holdouts or whatever) it suggests Harbaugh would be the obvious candidate due to his pedigree and interest in the job.
Beyond that you basically have the usual list of suspects any big name school considers taking a run at. Patterson, Muschamp, Peterson, etc. Also Michigan fans like to bring up Ferentz but I don't know about that one.
If we do make a move my only really dream would be to get Scott Loeffler back as QBs coach or OC.
(first time they've stood in awhile)
It's so easy to demonize anyone who is an alumnus and who is dissatisfied with this as a "blue hair". I hope you have great success going through the rest of your life personally attacking anyone who disagrees with you. You would be a perfect candidate for congress.
Personally, I have supported RR from the beginning and am torn as to what Brandon should do, but, if I conclude that RR should go, I shouldn't be personally attacked.
Actually it was a crack on the section of alumni directly to the right of the student section who is known for "DOWN IN FRONT" and never making any sort of noise on defensive series. I'm actually lobbying for RR to be fired in my diary so I'd qualify as part of the anti-RR group. I actually cheer at games though.
RR will get atleast one more year before he is fired. Honestly, as an "offensive" head coach, his job is to recruit, run the program, and make sure the offense is great. He's done all those things pretty well. I don't blame him on keeping GERG around as long as he does, before GERG came in we had what, 3 or 4 d coordinators in 4 years? A potential cause for our sucky d's could be because of this. It is time for a new d coordinator, someone who the players want to play for. He'll be expensive and have to improve the D to a respectable level. Inexperience is handcuffing us, but even the basics on D escape us, and exacerbate our problems on D.
FA endorses this post.
Not trying to be snarky, but in making this post, I tried to be specific that I was not writing to start a discussion as to whether RR should or would be fired. The entire premise is that IF he is fired, who would be a replacement candidate. There are bout 10 other forum topics to discuss whether he will or will not get fired or whether he should or should not get fired.
Also - and I am being a hypocrit to what I just said - I cannot agree that "Honestly, as an "offensive" head coach, his job is to recruit, run the program, and make sure the offense is great. He's done all those things pretty well" He has NOT recruited well on defense, at all. If he stays, he will find recruiting from the hot seat even harder. As for "run the program," this is up for debate, but I don't personally think that he has done a great job (NCAA violations). And, as for the offense, yes we are capable of running up gaudy yardage totals against crappy defenses (ND, UConn, BGSU, PSU), but we have gotten shut down by decent (MSU, to some extent Umass(!!))) and good (Iowa) defenses.
We rolled up over 500 against Iowa.
The Denard-led offense scored 7 points on 6 possessions. When the game was in contention, Michigan's offense was inept.
Games are 60 minutes long......and Michigan was down 7 with 3 minutes to go in the 4th quarter.
And then won...right?
I thought he said we were down by 7 in the fourth...
What more must the guy do for people to quit the Denard not our starter rabble. Every week he takes this team on his back, and he carries them as far as any one player can. He had 380 yards by himself, he had four touchdowns. He is the nations leading rusher, with a 155 qb rating, and most importantly he does it with the kind of grace that we expect out of a Michigan man, humble in victory, gracious in defeat. Never flamboyant, never arrogant, do you want him to part the red sea for you also?
I'd like him to heal his shoulder or learn to read Big Ten defenses with a pulse. Whatever it takes to complete a pass more than 5 yards down field.
I agree with you bluefrombirth... People have a hard time liking denard because he is different. I know i will be the bad guy for saying this but if denard was white he wouldnt have all this hate thrown at him.. There is still a portion of football fans no matter college or pros that believe blacks dont make good quarterbacks.. This is a bullshit stereotype to still believe in 2010 but its the truth.. Denard is the man and I only wish him the best but if they make the move on coach rod I can see Denard leaving with him.. For the people that thinks coach rod wouldnt have a job next year you're crazy and I think the place for him is Miami.
So now we're dogging Denard? Unfreaking believable.
Good thing the team with the most yards wins
I tried to be specific that I was not writing to start a discussion as to whether RR should or would be fired. The entire premise is that IF he is fired, who would be a replacement candidate.
The problem with that is a large percentage, whether majority or not, feel that RR should be fired no matter what. To them, this is the "Who is the next head coach" thread.
star a WHO IS THE NEXT COACH thread, so this one can be retitled the *IF* RR gets canned, who is the next coach -thread. see? then everybody's happy!
"The problem with that is a large percentage, whether majority or not, feel that RR should be fired no matter what. To them, this is the "Who is the next head coach" thread"
Who cares what they think? I'm not one of them and it's a relevant exercise to see who is, or isn't available. My pink ponies in a field of chocolate-dipped strawberries dream is for this team to win out while the defense learns to quit embarrassing itself.
But if that doesn't happen, the likelihood of change increases. I think it's safe to say that this conversation is relevant at this time.
There is just a head coach. RR knows more about his offense, but he is responsible for the whole product he puts on the field. Dismissing that the defense isn't on him too is making excuses for him that shouldn't be excuses.
I'm not calling for him to be fired (yet, at least) but the defense is just as much his responsibility as the offense, and not recruiting a coaching staff, like the one you claim we need, is on RR too.
Of course head coaches are responsible for everything, but most get hired on the strength of their previous performance on one side of the ball or the other. Usually, this is offense, because it is still the "sexier" side of the ball. Only when there is a total breakdown, like The Horror and The Debacle in 2007, or like the PSU game, is defense percieved as THE issue on a team. Otherwise, whether consciouisly or subconsciously, hiring decisions are made on offense.
I know everyone is pissed, but I'll bet there is nobody as pissed right now as RR. I would imagine that the coaches' meetings won't be too pleasant this week.
I disagree, a head coach has a bias to offense or defense. Whatever side they are not biased towards will be the side they delegate more responsibilty to that coordinator. RRod is not escaping 100% blame for the Ds, nor has he ran a A+ program. But he should shoulder more of the blame for a stagnant offense than a stagnant defense.
I wish RRod could of come in and continued what Carr was doing and improve on that, but when we hired him, we knew the first couple of years would be tough growing pains in personel and systems (square peg, round hole). The clock is almost out for him, but it isn't yet.
As for defensive recruiting, yea, it hasn't been stacked with 5 star guys, but its hard to judge recruiting classes when you must play players that are not ready yet. I chalk it up to a situatation similar to the MLB and MiLB. It's not often you find a player that can go straight into the highest level and play at a high level directly from college or HS. Just because a team rushed a player on the field, he should not automatically gardner a "bust" label when he doesn't do well. When they are a junior or senior, yes, but as a true freshman or a soph who should of been RS'd? C'mon. The lack of talent of the older guys is subject to a number of factors, and twoof them being the constant changing of the d system and the recovery from the Carr's final class.
He delegates but still demands a 3-3-5 and saddles the DC with an apparent lump of dog doo as a db coach.
I have heard this line of reasoning a lot and am just asking.....do we know that RR forced the 3-3-5 on GERG or is it possible that they discussed it and decided that given the likely problems in the secondary, this was the best way to limit the damage? If the system and the assistants are being forced on GERG while having him work with limited talent, it seems unfair. It's hard to argue that he has done a good job in any circumstances, but if you are hiring someone to coach half your team and delegating to them while you focus on the other half, you have to let them do their thing their way with their personnel (staff and players). I don't have much confidence in GERG at this point, but that seems a fairly basic rule of delegation if that's your style.
If this is "the best way to limit damage" then we need a serious re-evaluation. Does RR and/or GERG think the alternative would be WORSE? I mean seriously, how much worse could it be?
Don't disagree with your point, but that was not my point either. I'm just saying if RR wants to delegate control of the defense, he has to give the person he delegates to control of the defense including scheme and personnel decisions. I concur, the results on defense this year could not have been any worse.
The 3-3-5 is my single biggest criticism of RR. I still support him, but neither Shafer nor Robinson were 3-3-5 guys before they came here, and this scheme, while possibly intended to protect our secondary, just can't get opposing offenses off the field.
It's just basically allowed opponents to look like they're playing against their own scout teams.
This needs to be said more often. RR is THE guy, the buck stops with him. It doesn't matter what is wrong, he is responsible for it.
*this is not a fire RR post, I think we give him one more year, but I'm just pointing out that the ultimate responsibility for the on/off field product lies with Rich Rodriguez and we can all stop making excuses for a guy who is paid more than many of us will make in a lifetime to coach a football team every year kthnx*
My spin would be just slightly different. I think that RR is the Pres/COO and therefore, "is responsible for it.". But I think DB is the CEO and ultimately, "the buck stops with him.".
I don't know if this is a play on Starship Troopers or not but +1 anyway.
I am going to say I disagree with what I assume is your conclusion, that RR should be fired. I also disagree with the implication that the problems on defense are mainly caused by terrible coaching. I believe that inexperienced/suboptimally talented players are at least as much of a cause as coaching. However, as an RR supporter, I do think your comment about him being the Head Coach is a fair one. He has proven to me, at least, that he is one hell of an offensive coordinator. In order to be a successful coach at Michigan, the other two areas of his team (defense and special teams) have to be significantly better than they are today. Holding him accountable for that is absolutely fair and absolutely appropriate.
I agree with you for the most part, but some of the blame for the defense has to be placed on RR's shoulders. Not all of it. I understand the attrition we've suffered (and really feel we beat PSU if Martin isn't hurt) and that his focus is the offense. But I do think he focused on the offense a bit to the detriment of the defense so far in his tenure. I think he is a great coach and I want him around, but I can't exonerate him from the defensive failings.
Jon Gruden? Maybe? But, I think it would be Harbaugh
Please don't bring up Gruden. We laugh every time someone on NDNation brings his name up. It's equally laughable when it shows up here.
Throw my hat in the ring.. my experience:
3 Years Pop-Warner COY
2 Years Flag Football COY (as voted by my players)
2 League Championships
31 National Championships in Dynasty Mode
15 Heisman Winners in Dynasty Mode
...based on the fact that you were flag football COY "as voted by my players".
I often ask my kids who their favorite dad is. It's me. Always.
I'll stay away from any coaching discussion until the season is over. For now I prefer to cheer for the team and hope for at least a couple of more wins before this horrible season is over. I absolutely love our offense and I can't wait to see it next year, but our defense is painful to watch. This last bit I think we can all agree on.
I now see where all of those National Championships Alabama claims came from......
And pass up the opportunity to give the GERG a whirl?
Me not care who new coach is as long as him not named Rich Rodriguez who make me very unhappy for three years now me deserve so much better oh well off to Fraser's for more beer and fries yum.
Harbaugh is the only candidate I can think of right now that I'd want. And I definitely see him taking the job if offered.
and he has done an unreal job at Stanford. People should read a little on the progress. There is no question he would do an awesome job here. I like Rich and a strong finish would lead me to believe this is going places.
But there is no doubt Harbaugh is a great fit both tangibly and intangibly and there is no doubt he has the ability to win big here.
If alternatives are a consideration in Mr. Brandon's decision there is at least 1 excellent one out there.
If it were 2007, I'd have no problem hiring Harbaugh. However, here's the problem I see with hiring him next year. You are essentially throwing away the next 2-3 years while he rebuilds the offense AND defense. If you can wait for him to rebuild can't you wait for RR to build an average defense? That could be as soon as next year.
At this point, I don't really care what happens to RR. If he stays, fine, if he's gone, fine. But, I think that if he is gone, you need to hire someone that wants to run our style of offense or we aren't really gaining anything by switching coaches.
I think this is really important. What would take longer, to develop a new program in 2 years or to have built a solid defense by then? I think they're both possible, but doing it with the current staff in place has so many more benefits- longevity, recruiting continuity, salvaging a terrific QB, etc. Can't be overstated.
Harbaugh is assembling top ten recruiting classes at Stanford.
Stanford is in God's country. Gorgeous place to live. Quality of life, yada, yada, yada.
Michigan is stuck with a terrible roster on defense.
There is no way Harbaugh leaves Stanford for Michigan.
Brandon is giving RR a fourth year unless there is epidemic of quitting and he completely loses control of his program. I don't see that happening. This team is still unified.
Next year is the make or break season for RR.
"There is no way Harbaugh leaves Stanford for Michigan."
I completely disagree with this. I think Harbaugh would pack his bags tonight if Dave Brandon offered him the job. Let's not forget that Harbaugh was raised by the Michigan football coaching staff.
Take a look at the videos of Harbaugh at the following link. Does that sound like a guy who would drop Stanford like an ugly date as soon as DB texts him?
In particular, pay attention to what Harbaugh mentions about his high school football experience. There is NO mention of Pioneer or Ann Arbor, or the fact that his dad coached at UM.
Pay specific attention to Harbaugh when he unequivocally states that Stanford was his #1 college choice; the reason he came to Michigan is that we offered him a football scholarship, and Stanford didn't.
Wow, it is shocking that the head coach of Stanford would claim his loyalty lies with Stanford.
What's shocking is that so many are missing the underlying message in Harbaugh's statements.
Jim Harbaugh didn't have to come out in public with his criticisms of the academic integrity of the program that he played in, and implicitly of the coach he played for, especially after that coach was dead and couldn't defend himself. Harbaugh was already coach at Stanford, and his job of selling Stanford in no way was dependent on him trashing the integrity of his alma mater. He could have addressed those concerns privately away from the glare of the media, and a long time ago when Bo could have responded privately, in person.
Jim Harbaugh did not have to publicly assert that he only went to Michigan was because he didn't get an offer from Stanford. Unless you had an inner urge to diss your alma mater, there's absolutely no need to say that sort of thing, especially since nobody at Stanford would be demanding that you declare them #1 in your heart forever and ever.
Jim Harbaugh didn't have to assert publicly, as he does in one of those video interviews at the link, that Stanford was the only place where you can play top-level football and get a top-level education at the same time. There are plenty of alumni players at UM who know from personal experience that's just complete bullshit. Harbaugh's job security at Stanford didn't require him to make that assertion; it would have been enough to say that the combination of football and academics at Stanford is tremendous, which is true.
The fact is that Jim Harbaugh on many occasions has taken shots, some of them cheap shots, at his alma mater when there is absolutely no reason or need for him to do so. That does not sound like a man who's itching to come back to me.
Don, I couldn't agree more. Thanks for laying everything out. I don't understand the blue bloods and the old timers would want Harbaugh, considering that they hold Bo to be a deity. I rather get someone like Dan Mullen that can make his own history at Michigan.
On the record, I will say it again, I didn't like Coach Rod and his offense while he was at WVU and didn't like it when we hired him. As a person, I was a bit worried about past players and the whole leaving WVU behind in the way that he did. But I was wrong about him as a person, he never has made any disparging remarks about Michigan and he is more of a Michigan Man than Jim Harbaugh. As painful as it may for me to say this. I am not closing the book on Harbaugh but he would have to do alot in my book to come back.
It's almost like all the Harbaugh backers on this board have forgotten (purposely or not) that he publicly threw his alma mater under the bus for no apparent reason. Not even a self-serving reason.
And now that we're struggling and people want RR out, he's the answer?
No, thanks, man. I have dignity. Like Jamie Morris said: you lose my number, and I'll lose yours.
First, I apologize for the comment, it was pretty dickish. I agree with you that Harbaugh threw Michigan under the bus, but I disagree that the comments had no purpose other than venting anger at U of M. You could be right, but it's tough to get into the psychology of the situation.
I took the comments as indication that Harbaugh is first and foremost a jackass. Secondly, I think they were meant to be a recruiting tool, putting Stanford on a pedastal as the one place to get a great education and still be on a top-notch football team. If he's going for that angle, Michigan is the obvious target, all the moreso because he knows the program inside and out. Obviously it was a lie and obviously there are plenty of people pissed off at me (I being one of them).
However, I do think that the anger at Harbaugh all goes away if he becomes the HC and starts winning. I also think that Harbaugh would have plenty of incentive to come back. Michigan is simply a better gig than Stanford, for one thing. Certainly he has a ton of talent on that team now, but Michigan is the better job in the long run. Better stadium, better facilities, better support, larger fanbase, more national exposure, etc. And I still do think that he'd want to come back to his alma mater.
That being said, I would much rather keep RR than go get someone else. Whether that is going to be possible remains to be seen, but I'm waiting until the season is over to make any judgment on that front.
I have a source in the NFL that flat old told me the Stanford staff was packed and ready to come to Michigan if the wheels fell off this year. They were expecting to be here more likely than not in 2011. He told me this in August. I think the answer to the question of whether the wheels fell off was given to us quite clearly Saturday night.
and Woolfolk were my favorite players growing up. But this: "there's absolutely no need to say that sort of thing, especially since nobody at Stanford would be demanding that you declare them #1 in your heart forever and ever"
Yeah, contrast that from what Les Miles had to say about Michigan. OSU players used to get sick of how Miles would prattle on about "how they did it at Michigan". If Harbaugh loved Michigan as much as some on this board claim he does, he'd never have sold out and made those comments. They were unprompted and as far as I know, he's never publicly retracted them.
As far as I know, the only "positive" comment he's made about Michigan was a 30 second homage to Bo calling him after he got the San Diego job.
Harbaugh, just like Toomer and Law, is dead to me.
Do you not remember that whole incident of Miles insulting Michigan to steal a recruit from Carr? I can't remember what recruit it was, but I'm sure someone on the board can help me about with that.
Harbaugh is not staying at Stanford. He can say all he wants but all coaches say this. Urban Meyer. Tommy Bowden. Brian Kelly. They all say the same things
I'm not guaranteeing that he comes to Michigan, but he's not staying at Stanford. He might be their coach in 2011, but definitely not 2012. Keep in mind -- he supposedly almost took the Kansas job last year.
unless there is epidemic of quitting and he completely loses control of his program
That's key. RR hasn't "lost control" of this program. The players have bought in, they're disciplined and play hard. The offense is one of the best in the country.
They aren't up to snuff on defense, particularly the secondary. RR is aware of that. There's nothing he can do about it during the season and bringing in another coach isn't going to immediately solve it.
Please stop. Please. Let T-wolf come back. Let our defense mature. Let our offense get even better. Let our coach do his best. It isn't fair yet to call for his head. I know this isn't the point of your post but it might as well be. This talk makes me more angry than the loss on Saturday.
to say lets wait for next year is the common occurrence here. If T-Wolf was on this team now, do you really think we would be significantly better. Wake up. We can't stop the run or guard a WR period. Plus, next year, there is no guarantee that he is or will be what he was (look at Vincent smith who still hasn't recovered all his speed). We lose our top LB to graduation. Mike Martin may go pro. His body of work suggests that he can't win here and the defense has shown very little that it is capable of making a giant leap forward, which is needed to become a top team in the big ten again.
Besides, the point of this topic is if he is fired, can we actually replace him with someone that is capable of turning this around? If not, give him one more year.
1) John Gruden - Nuf said
2) Jim Harbaugh - Ditto
3) Tony Dungy - He coached Peyton Manning
4) Charlie Weis - I think he learned a lot during his last job.
Nick Sheridan - 20 yrs from now RR will be looking to retire after acomplishing everything imaginable at this level.
I love this game!
We're getting Mike Hart in 20 years!
ugh. hate this thread.
Jim Harbaugh - May come since he played here.
Kyle Whittingham - Young, proven winner
Gary Patterson - Won't leave TCU
Chris Peterson - Won't leave Boise
Gus Malzahn - Hasn't been a head coach - runs one hell of an offense though
Dan Mullen - Hasn't coached long, but may be good.
Wittingham isn't young - he's 50.
I'm sure there are a few 50 year old on this board that are now willing to fist fight you.
50 year olds know how to use the internets?
Yes. It just takes them longer.
Al Gore is 62. I think he invented it.
For coach age, he's not young!
suppose that depends on your perspective - he would look pretty young to PSU fans, and many other people for that matter
he's still a fetus.
Gus Malzahn is a very interesting idea. HE would fit the personnel
is someone who has never been a head coach at any collegiate level, only been in the college game for 5 or so years and is purely an offensive expert. That would be an even larger recipe for disaster. So get that thought out of your head now.
Basically as someone up above pointed out, our coach next year will either be Rich or Jim. That said, for the love of God, Rich, please beat Illinois and Purdue to make this stop!!!
Am I the only one here who remembers how Jim Harbaugh threw his alma mater under the bus, inspired Jim Carty's hit job on UM football in the process, and has a DUI arrest to his name? As good a coach as he may be, I'd much rather wait for RR to succeed, which I still do believe should happen. Damn if I'm not jaded as hell though.
You are not the only one that remembers what Jim Harbuagh has said about Michigan. I wonder after his comments why people think he still wants to come back. It's sad, he was my favorite player growing up, but I will never cheer for him or his teams again even if they are playing MSU or OSU.
one, desperate circumstances like the one we are in usually makes people look the otherway.
We have sucked for a while, and may not be a good team next year. Which top coaching candidates would want to come here? We have a guy who turned STanford into a powerhouse. Besides, there is a little truth in what he said. And he can say it because he has run a clean program with high academic restrictions at Stanford, and still won.
I understand there may be some truth in what he said, but why make it into a public forum. He knows enough people in the program, talk to some higher ups and do something about it. He called out in public, the entire University. You don't do that with a school you love. Just my opinion.
And why did he wait until after Bo went home to do that? That was a very classy move on his part.
(This seems particularly relevant, given last week's discussions about the underappreciation of Mo...)
If the school already fired the heir-apparent to Bo because he got drunk in public and was therefore "no longer fit to lead young men," why would the same school turn to a petulant man with a DUI arrest on his record and a history of throwing his alma mater under the bus?
is there any reason to believe that he would come here?
About as much reason as one had to believe that Roy Williams would leave Kansas to go to North Carolina, but only if Roy Williams had also grown up in Chapel Hill. So to answer your question, yes.
The resume of any potential replacement coach would indicate 2 things:
- experience with the spread offense (don't stop this train now)
- ability to bring in 5 upperclass DB transfers that excelled at their previous schools and somehow want to play at Michigan now.
That's really all that's gonna work.
I'll stick with my original choice: Dan Mullen. Only 38 years old, took over an awful program at Mississippi State and has been an outstanding recruiter and he has single-handedly turned the program around. Mullen coached with Urban at Utah, Bowling Green and Florida. And he can bring Manny Diaz with him -- young DC with Florida ties (FSU Alum).
I hadn't thought about him, but that's a good suggestion. '
His success at Mississippi State makes you wonder how much he was responsible for Urban's success.
Yeah, he focused primarily on the QB's: Alex Smith, Josh Harris, Chris Leak, Tebow. Honestly, he is a hell of a coach -- he won't last long at Miss State. I wouldn't be surprised if he wasn't plucked up soon, especially after Miss State's back to back solid seasons and now a win over Florida (at The Swamp).
I was thinking about Manny Diaz too.
The thing about Mullen is he's only been at schools that have low academic standards and lax off-field discipline standards. Diaz too.
IF this were to happen, I wouldn't underestimate Brandon's ability to target a good coach and recruit him hard.
Anyone know if Brandon owns a boat?
Bo Fielding Crilser should be the coach
And for the DC position how about his younger brother, Lloyd Moeller. Seriously people, enough with the Harbaugh talk. He is already said that he is not lookin for a job, and he has a chance to take over the PAC whatever now that USCheaters is in trouble. He can feild great teams without ever having to leave California. Why would he come to fractured fanbase that does not have the patience to see a product through its entire development cycle. Now is time to hold the rope, and cast our gaze back at the long blue line and see that our beloved program is one of tradition. The interesting thing is that tradition is not made in a couple of years. It is built over decades/ generations, what we need is to have patience. All in for Michigan, all in for RichRod.
My favorite candidates are:
Conventional wisdom is that Harbaugh is the only guy who would be interested, but I disagree with the covnentional wisdom.
I'll believe it when I see it in regards to UM hiring outside the family again. That being said, if a new hire is needed, Jim Harbaugh is the only inside the family candidate who would not make me cringe. I don't think Les Miles is a realistic possibility anymore, and i'll just leave it at that.
As far as the in the house coaches that would make a large part of the fan base who would make the masses go WTF? Trgovac, Debord, English, Hoke, and Loeffler? I think Trgovac and Hoke would be the most realistic, and Trgovac would make me less likely to hyperventilate.
My personal preference would be to keep Rich around, and have him reach out to a guy like Trgovac to come and be the DC in hopes that a move like that would help with the traditionalists, but the only way I see Trgovac coming here from the NFL is to be the HC. Dave Brandon would probably have to be heavily involved in that as well, to help the old and new mesh well together, but that's why they call them pipe dreams right?
I really like Trgovac but I'd rather he come as part of a new staff if it happens. If we keep RR I think we need to go hard for Casteel. Casteel produced some good 3-3-5 defenses (you have to take that with a grain of salt since he mostly had to only worry about looking good against Big East Teams). So bring in Casteel, he'll inherit a defensive that has some experience in the 3-3-5 and returning starters (although many of them will just be sophs). If the defense sucks under him then you have pretty definitive proof the system doesn't meet our needs and we know we have to hit the reset button in some fashion. If he produces a good defense then you pay the man and do you best to keep him forever.
with Trgovac you have this weird hybrid of RR's assistants possibly lingering around and the commitment tot he 3-3-5 which is not the system Trgovac honed his skills with. I worry it would just kind of be a mess.
My apologies,I should have stated my pipe dream more clearly. Trgovac would be in charge of the defense, and not just in name only. He would run the scheme, pick the players, and his staff. That would handcuff a lot of RR's power, which is why I think it is a pipe dream.
Trgovac in control means Gibson and others are likely gone. I have no idea how RR would react to that. After all RR had a major falling out with WVU over control issues. I have no idea how basically taking the defense away from him would play out.
Due to the low value of his stock right now he might have to bite his tongue and accept it but I worry he'd jump ship later once his stock was high again. If we're going to neuter him we might as well replace him now rather than waiting for him to rage quit or jump to another job later.
I think he's a great solution to the current problems on defense which would allow us to retain RR, but why on earth would he, or any other "name" DC, come to M in a year where it would certainly be, at best, a 50/50 proposition that RR would be retained for a 5th year? If Casteel didn't want to uproot his family when several years in AA were certain, why would he do so when it could well be one year and out?
On that subject, how/why did the new coordiators go to Illinois when Zook was perceived to be a lame duck? I know they were imposed on Zook, but does anyone know why they went? That's likely the best analogy.
I don't care who coaches this program next year; I have the whole offseason to worry about it. Right now, RR is the coach and this team still has 1/3 of the season to cash in on its promise. I spent 8 months worrying about how this team was going to play and if the coaches are going to stay; let me enjoy the 3+ months of actual football.
Damn you, making sense is not allowed this week.
Harbaugh would crap his pants at the opportunity to coach at Michigan.
And when push came to shove Les Miles chose to stay put.
Harbaugh isn't coming back.
Let's not sound like a bunch of Notre Dame fans who think our coaching job is this wonderful thing.
Michigan Football is radioactive right now. NOBODY with any sense or options wants to touch it.
I doubt very much if that's true. I think there are plenty of coaches out there who would jump at the chance.
The problem is the same problem that faces every AD: choosing the right one. Hell, RR may be the right one, but it's getting pretty hard to make that argument with confidence these days.
We'll get a good coach. Maybe not a great one, but we'll get a good candidate. Every program that fires a coach is theoretically radioactive. Texas, Alabama, Oklahoma -- you name it. But coaches are massively egotistical, highly confident overacheivers. That's why they leave their comfort zones and take chances going to schools where they have to compete for a national championship to be successful.
and that he actually needs to coach the defense. Preemptive insult deflection: look at his defense in his third year. Results and wins are the only thing that matters
Recruits read this shit.
I'm pretty sure the recruits place a lot more value in on the field performance than some rantings on the message board.
Also any recruit with a pulse had to except the mob to start forming up after PSU. It's not like they are going to shocked to find people complaining after a soul crushing loss.
Is there any chance we could keep our Offensive staff, can RR and can the defensive staff? I like the O and I really think it'd work almost just as well with Calivin McGee as it does with RR since CM has been working with him for so long I'd have to imagine he has a pretty good apptitude for a good offense. I know it's not really all that likely but I don't think you should replace all the pieces if some of them are working well.
Also, I'm getting a lot of slack from non UM fans saying our O is just one guy and give 0 credit to solid WR's, solid OL and the development of Denard, lame... (Even when I mention that Tate was tearing Iowa apart they don't even listen.) I REALLY REALLY REALLY hope DHart doesn't de-commit... (I know there aren't any indications of this right now but they are just 17 and 18 year old kids so I don't count on a commit until they sign on the dotted line)
It won't happen but we have a huge commitment in players with the skill set to run the spread and shred. And it is working. Nothing wrong with the offense. If we had a 60th ranked defense, we would be undefeated. It will take three years to change the player base to stock up with pro style guys. So if a new HC were smart, he would keep the offense as is with the guys who run it and recruit for it. The HC could then concentrate on what the hell to do with the defense.
I've never quite understood this need by coaches to run a "their" system, regardless of the skills of the players they inherit.
As much as we would love to believe it, there is no guarantee that Harbaugh would even accept the job here.
If you or me were in his position, it would be obvious that we'd be calling Brandon up ourselves to ask for the job, but Harbaugh has a lot to consider beyond the Michigan name and his Michigan ties.
That said, I don't know who I think would be a legit good replacement IN the event of a coaching change. Right now though, we don't have to worry about that.
That would be willing to come here and would be successful
2. Chris Petersen
3. Mike Leach.......I'm kidding, Gary Patterson.
As bad as our defense has been this year, our O has been outstanding as they are leading the big ten in scoring in ppg. Because of this I really don't want to revert back to a pro style.
My top two guys are:
Chris Peterson at Boise
Kyle Whittingham at Utah
Both run the spread O and have had great defenses.
Too bad RR cannot just become our offensive coordinator.....
Boise State does not run the Spread.
1. TRY! FIGHT! WIN!
2. Wayne Fontes
3. Durp Durp
lets get a coach on his way up. and yes, a lot of people here (in FL) think he is one of the main reasons for Urbans success.
for a second i misread your post as suggesting "MILLEN" for umich coach...
wow, got faint there for a minute...
If there is a change coming, please, let there be no "search." 1 man out, another in, keep as many recruits as possible.
The whole search thing is a recipe for recruiting disaster. If a change occurs this offseason - and I may be in the minority but I believe that there will be one - Brandon needs to handle it well, so that the new HC is ready to step in.
...when Saturday rolls around, please.
We met him in line at the Penn State Creamery and he informed us that his wife works there about once per month. He has amazing inside information which should totally help with recruiting--for example, he told us in confidence that Joe Pa actually dislikes the "Peachy Paterno" flavor that was named for him and instead prefers plain Strawberry.
Jay Paterno, PSU QB coach.
Just as surely as UC's next coach is Dan Enos.
bring in some ornery SEC Defensive Coordinator.....some guy who is too intense to have the people skills to be a Head Coach.....
dont tell me "not good to keep changing DC's", because when you are among the worst in the nation, it is REQUIRED that you change DC's.
I know a guy from Stanford and he says they would do NOTHINg to keep him. They won't pour $$ at football. He put Stanford football on the map out there and that's as far as he'll be able to take it. He could win the MNC here.
If it's not Harbaugh then the next coach MUST completely get, understand, eat, breathe, and sleep Michigan football and all the things that have gone on with it and all the things that will. And that includes putting Sparty back in it's place.
Well this thread became what we all thought it would be. I have no idea if Rich deserves a fourth year. Wannstache got a fourth year and made something of it so I guess anybody can deserve a fourth year.
I believe he deserves a fourth year solely because people in the Big Ten truly fear this offense. Joe Pa actually called a FAKE FIELD GOAL instead of kicking a field goal because in theory Michigan could score two touchdowns in 3 minutes. Would you have said that about either of the offenses we've fielded the last two years?
Here is what I have noticed. Offense atrocious in Year One, Inconsistent Year Two, Impressive Year Three. By year 4 or 5 this offense will be a machine. Starting in 2008 we have purged a significant number of Carr recruits and now we are in RR recruits country. Both quarterbacks are his most of the line is his, most of the skill players are his AND they have been in the system for two years or more. These are the results. They are great results. And honestly they could be even better.
The defense is where the offense was in 2008. RRod deserves one more year. A serviceable defense means a ton. And Mike Martin won't go pro. Mostly because there is a possible lock out next year and a rookie cap. There is very little incentive to leave next year rather than the year after.
To the coaching question it comes down to Harbaugh vs. RRod. I think Jim is more likely to go pro than come to Michigan but if you want to fire RRod than Harbaugh is your next best bet. If Harbaugh doesn't come the guy I really, really like is Pat Fitzgerald. More because even though they appear outmanned and outgunned often, they always play with discipline and give themselves a chance to beat anyone.
Joe Pa actually called a FAKE FIELD GOAL instead of kicking a field goal because in theory Michigan could score two touchdowns in 3 minutes.
I think JoePa called for the fake because we don't have a special teams coach and he also knew our defense = like going through butter with a hot corn on the cob
Most schools don't have a ST coach. The fact we don't have a dedicated ST coach wouldn't have factored into it; you are correct about the defense.
Who would our QB be in his system? Fact is, neither Tate nor Denard can consistently throw while standing in the pocket. Devin can, and he would be my first guess as to who would take over at QB, but really, that doesn't bode well. I'm terrified what switching back to a pro-style offense could mean for this program after seeing what happened in RR's first two years on offense.
Best candidate: Greg Robinson.
But after three years, the PSU game has me seriously considering the future possibilities at head coach. I was on the Harbaugh and Petersen bandwagons three years ago and nothing has changed.
I would probably add Pat Fitzgerald. Don't know enough about Mullen.
But I agree with several of the posters that we have to have a coach next year that runs or would feel comfortable running the spread. Otherwise we are destroying the only improvement that has been made since 2007 and setting us back even futher. If we can't get a "can't miss" guy who likes the spread I think we have to roll with Rodriguez for one more year.
I have no idea if it's real or not. It's hard to see how Harbaugh would ever say anything about a Michigan player, unless he recruited him.
I could Tate being the QB and DRob being a back or slot, ala Harvin at UF. Harbaugh would see the value of Dennard on the field and utlize him in any way he could. Any coach worth his salt would find a way to have him on the field.
On the "throwing his Alma Mater under the bus", well he is doing better with tougher academic standards at Stanford than either Michigan or ND. He obviously cares about Michigan and wants them to do it the right way, the way they did it when he was here. He may not have handled the situation well.
The DUI- everyone drive under the influence, right? /s
Cares about Michigan, enough to trash the school and the people who work for the school in public. If he cared about the school, do it in private. Everyone makes mistakes, but until he starts to handle the situation better, I hope he never comes here. And if he did, I will support him. But, I will never defend him unless he makes amends to all the people he trashed.
It's one comment and Jamie Morris (I think it was he who said he's never talk to JH again) and Harbaugh have made up, so as fans, we should also get over it.
Also, I attended (and paid a lot of tuition as I never recieved a scholarship) Michigan for 6 years, but Harbaugh was the QB, and his Dad a coach. You can't argue with his love for the school, 1 comment aside.
You are telling me to get over it. I don't care if he made up with Jamie Morris. Has he ever apologized to the University and the staff in Admissions and the Athletic departments. I paid tuition also, so I don't get you comment about that. Funny kind of love for you school to openly criticize and make other negative comments.
Interesting you are telling me to get over it, when your line is boycott the FREEP. Will you ever get over the FREEP and read that crap again. At least the FREEP never claimed to love the University of Michigan.
The most obvious solution is this:
HC: Jim Harbaugh
OC: Rich Rodriguez
QB Coaches: Tony Dungy & Barry Sanders (for the wildcat formation we use, of course)
RB Coach: Eric Dickerson
WR Coach: Jerry Rice
DC: Bill Cowher
DBs Coach: Deion Sanders (minus violations)
DL Coach: Rod Marinelli (to sharpen our shovels + bring outstanding will)
LBs Coach: Mike Singletary
What do you guys think?
If Rodriguez decides that enough is enough and he goes off to coach at Wazzu or Tennessee, I think either Ken Niamatulolo or Paul Johnson should be our next coach. Both are triple-option coaches, so they'll be able to utilize our offensive players well. We're in no position to transition to pro-style yet.
We're closer now to switching to pro-style than we were 3 years ago switching to read-option, belly-ball.
Denard may be a bit out of position for an NFL style QB, but who else? Also, I think Denard could be really good in a shotgun spread NFL O.
It doesn't seem like there are a bevy of realistic candidates.....