Possibility of recruiting against OSU backfiring?
We were going to recruit all of those guys really, really hard anyway. The fact that OSU sanctions may have made it a little easier to get them isn't really a factor. We were going after them.
If they are the type that would decommit for OSU because the sanctions weren't as bad as expected, then they were never going to play hard for M anyway, so... whatever.
That's how we feel about Kalis.
as "good luck" rather than "break a leg. No seriously, I hope it breaks and ruptures a tendon, you traitor"?
Then they wouldn't be Ohio State
Show me where I said this?
a guy choosing between two historically successful programs and deciding not to go to the one that has a potential host of sanctions coming its way? What did this guy owe you?
He didn't owe them anything. Even Kalis mentioned that he only lived in ohio for 2 1/2 years and was not raised an osu fan. He himself didn't understand the insane reactions when he decommitted.
This has not given the insane in this wasteland any pause in their hope that he suffers a life changing injury.
He doesn't owe me shit. I don't care were he goes--Michigan, LSU, USC--it doesn't matter. I want kids to come to Ohio State like Curtis Grant, all in, not half in/half out. If sanctions deter him, then he wasn't the right kid for OSU at this time, and him coming here and trying to gut it out would have been bad for everyone if his heart wasn't in it.
If they are the type that would decommit for OSU because the sanctions weren't as bad as expected, then they were never going to play hard for M anyway, so... whatever
Fans always say things like this, but I don't think there's anything to it. A lot of recruits have a very difficult time choosing between schools because they like a lot of them. The smallest factor can put one over the top. They'll play hard for wherever they end up.
But, the post speculates that the recruits may have really wanted to play for OSU and flaked ONLY because of the potential NCAA hits. That's a different case. If you were a buckeye at heart, you'd have a hard time putting everything into the Maize & Blue.
Keep in mind that I'm not criticizing any kid for making any choice. I hope they all find great success wherever they go, and they all have the right to change their minds as they care to. I'm simply saying if your heart is really set on somewhere, and you play for their archrival for reasons totaly and only beyond your control, that's going to affect how much you love playing.
Call me crazy, but I feel like they'll play hard for whatever team they commit to.
Yes they won't play as hard because NFL GM's and scouts will say things like "shows a lack of effort on the field, but that's okay he really just wanted to go to another school.". Please check what you're saying before you type it. Otherwise you might sound really dumb.
Guys like Kalis and Strobel, their spots weren't going anywhere. They could have waited and gotten a better idea of what the punishments would be, see how they do with Fickell, take some more visits, etc. Instead they chose Michigan. That means a lot.
I'm not worried about any of the Ohio kids looking at OSU. All of them seem to have made their choice because they preferred Michigan anyway.
Plus Kalis clearly mentioned in his follow up interviews that he was only a resident of Ohio for 2 1/2 years. That certainly was not a "lifetime" of cheering for tOSU.
Yet he commited to OSU when he was 14...
and then switching back to tOSU would make you a popular fellow in CBus
I guess it might play a role with a guy like Dunn, but I doubt Kalis would ever want to go back to OSU seeing as how the treated him on his way out.
"Coach, I'm just calling to let you know I've decided to go to Michigan State"
"Well, son, I certianly hope you find a lot of success out there."
At OSU,they do it the Buckeye way -
"I called coach Hoke from the 50 yard line to tell him I was coming to Michigan."
"I hope he tears his ACL."
The entire underlying premise of your post might be incorrect i.e. you are assuming because some tOSU message boards said Michigan's coaches were using the sanctions to 'negative' recruit, that this premise is true.
Its quite possible that these kids looked at the situation, the loss of an icon (to OHIO) of Tressel and simply started paying attention to Hoke, etal and they didn't need to threaten sanctions of whatever. The most difficult job for any recruiter (salesperson) is getting your foot in the door. One you are in the door, if you have a good product, you might just have a customer (commit).
I'm not too worried. Add to the fact that the NCAA didn't come out and say, "OSU is innocent, we have closed all investigations, there is nothing to see here. Please move along." They said, "Tatgate and tressal lying appear to be the only things involved with THIS situation." The overall situation will likely lay the foundation for how school's handle future serious violations - if the NCAA comes down lightly, then the lesson learned is 1) coach and student athlete take all the blame; 2) make sure coach and student athlete land very lightly on their feet in a better position. If the NCAA comes down hard, the lesson becomes - be honest and forthright with the NCAA and we will take mercy on the soul of your institution.
I haven't seen a higher negative count elsewhere.
(BTW most of the higher negative totals were big mod negs, like -10,000 or something like that.)
Clearly Q only posted with the goal of reaching - 1 billion points. Once he hit that, he was gone, never to be heard from again.
I wonder what he did...
Not enough I-G-A-N
not enough O-NO?
I doubt it. With the exception of Kalis, many of the rest of our recruits chose us over OSU. With Kalis, he committed to OSU at the beginning of his junior year -- it's likely he never considered M that seriously before. Now that he's chosen us, I think he stays. Tom even said that Kalis felt very bad about decommitting and didn't want to do it again. If the sanctions are light it will most likely lessen our chances at poaching Dunn, but I think the commits we have will stay committed. I'd be worried if I were MSU, though, as Se'Von Pittman's comments upon his commitment were anything but reassuring.
Why, for example, would Kalis go play for a fanbase from whom many were wishing an torn ACL on him? It's bad enough from where I sit. I can't imagine how pissed I'd be if I was in his shoes.
I'm pretty sure, though, that I'd be dreaming of beating them four times and shoving the ACL from a biology dummy up some asses.
have been negative regruiting?
sparty and the cooler poopers
not buying it. why would you? its kind of been in the news a little bit, yknow?
They don't find out on August 12th if the NCAA accepts their self-punishment. That comes in about November I think. From what Tom has said, it sounds like for sure if OSU has any kind of bowl ban, which is still possible/somewhat likely, that Dunn will look elsewhere, and we'd be at the top of that list.
probably be best to know either way as soon as possible, but damn if we arent short on non-QB skill players
not too worried about kalis. tressel is still gone, and despite what osu fans would have you believe, i dont think decomitting in his situation was shady at all
This topic is dumb.
The only recruit this could affect for us is Dunn, as light punishment would make it very hard for us to get him. We shouldn't be worried about any of our guys
I think we'll be just fine, thanks.
Wherever they go, I am sure these kids will play hard. This is what they've worked for, and I doubt they would waste that opportunity regardless of where it is. If they stick with Michigan, all the better, for many of these Ohio-based kids would look awesome in the winged helmets.
Further, if you were Kalis and aware of what the Bucknuts crowd was saying, would YOU show your face in Columbus?
Regardless of what has recently come out I still think the NCAA hits them with the repeat offender rule. They almost have to otherwise whatever credibility the NCAA had left goes up in smoke.
have to ask....what is a "true-blue Buckeye"?
interesting choice of words around these parts
Kyle Kalis also said he wanted to choose a program with stability, and to know he would have the same coach for his entire college career. Nobody knows who will coach Ohio State next year.
Yes because Michigan's coaching staff is stable?
When compared to OSU... yeah, it's currently far more stable.
At the end of the year, we know who our Head Coach is still going to be, and odds are the majority of the assitants will still be around as well. Now, if we compare that to OSU... well, there is a very different situation going on. We don't know who the head coach is going to be at the end of the year, and because of that we don't know which, if any, of the assistant coaches will be there next year as welll.
So, while Michigan's head coaching staff isn't as stable as say Oklahoma or Alabama... it is currently far more stable than OSU's
Buckeye fans want us to believe Coach Hoke is promising recruits a 3 year bowl ban. Can you imagine what this would do for his credibility?
Hoke -- Kyle, you don't want to play for Ohio...they will get a 3 year bowl ban at minimum. I promise you that young fella.
Kyle -- wow, I want to play in a bowl game Coach Hoke. I really like OSU but I think I'll decomitt and join you at Michigan. Are you positive there will be a 3 year bowl ban? You know, because this is a major life decision for me.
Hoke -- you bet ya son...3 year bowl ban at minimum!
Kyle -- OK Coach Hoke, based on this information I'm a Wolverine.
NCAA adds one one year of probation but no bowl ban.
Kyle walks into Coach Hoke's office -- WTF Coach Hoke? I thought you said 3 year bowl ban?
Hoke -- umm..well...you know..we're going to play physical...and we're going to have a toughness...uh, we're get to win multiply Big Ten championships....
Kyle -- see ya.
Do those morons really want us to believe Coach Hoke is lying to recruits knowing that they don't have to sign until after the NCAA makes its decision? Fucking idiots.
Especially since all the recruits have been talking about how honest and up-front Coach Hoke is about everything. But I suppose the OSU message boarders would like us to believe that Hoke brainwashed the kids and that they don't know what they are saying...
If Michigan can't recruit on its own merits, it's a sad day for Michigan football. Assuming Hoke gets Michigan back to its winning form, we shouldn't need to play on other schools' weaknesses.
Negatively recruiting against OSU doesn't give recruits reasons to come to Michigan; it gives recruits reasons to not commit to OSU despite their historically great program. The other half of the coin is to convince them that 'the alternate school to choose is Michigan because...' Fortunately, Hoke would not have the success he is having against OSU head-to-head unless he already knew this.
The whole "playing hard" thing sounds like a nonissue to me. I'd like to think that if a kid wasn't playing hard Hoke would bench his ass, regardless of how highly touted of a recruit he were.
Ohio is still facing serious NCAA sanctions because:
a) it is on record that their coach lied to the NCAA, to compliance (or was in compliance with compliance to look the other way...allegedly), to his superiors (or was in compliance with them...allegedly)
b) the Tat5/6 are on record for taking improper benefits and the details around this are well known.
Ohio also, if you recall, screwed over the NCAA in December, lied on compliance forms in September and was disingenuous about their "response" in March (remember the two games and stern lecture Gee was going to give St. Tressel?)
Ohio is going to face some sanctions and they will have to reflect the seriousness of these violations. They have also acknowledged that they are repeat violators. Finally, the NCAA will have to deal with the NCAA representation from the SEC and PAC Dozen (see angry USC mob) if the sanctions are not in line with the seriousness of the violations.
I see 5 scholarships a year for 3 years, a one year bowl ban and 'double secret probation' until the ESPN/Ohio Supreme Court Case is settled and ESPN and their boatload of lawyers gain access to the totality of the documentation.
At that point the NCAA will have to 'unleash hell' but that's likely a year or two out with the machinations of the courts, Ohio obfuscating and the World Leader hitting with the 'death by a thousand cuts' approach. Ohio opened the Pandora's box with how they handled this situation in December and March and the media won't stop circling. Raback that.,
He was asked about this very issue, and addressed it directly. He said the Michigan coaches don't even talk about Ohio State's problems, they talk about what Michigan has to offer. This whole paranoia that Michigan's success in recruiting Ohio players depends on what happens to the Buckeyes is ridiculous. The fact is Michigan always did great in Ohio, but when Tressel came along and turned his head to all of the shenangigans, and let the players tell the recruits all the extra stuff they'll get when they get there, that is what changed things. RichRod then de-emphasized Ohio, and that made it worse.
Hoke will do great in Ohio because he is a great recruiter. There's no need to negative recruit. He's a positive guy and he is a positive recruiter. What is really going on is captured in the comments of Tom Strobel: Kids are raised in Ohio to hate Michigan, but once he got up to Ann Arbor to see the place he realized how silly that is, and how Michigan is just a much better degree to hold than one from Ohio State. Hoke's strategy is to get Ohio kids to make the drive north and see what Michigan has to offer. Once that happens, we'll be fine going head-to-head with Ohio State on recruits, no matter who their coach is. And they won't be able to cheat anymore, or throw tattoo and bong parties, and Michigan will be back to attracting great Ohio players every year, as we always have -- because it's a better school with much more to offer, not because of the NCAA.
I have seen a couple interviews where Hoke has said they dont bring up Liar States issues to recruits. I tend to believe because to say that to the public and then go into a kids living room and lie would be something that would only hurt.
Recruiting will be affected by the NCAA decision no doubt about it but it wont change how Hoke is doing things. Hoke has recruited Ohio before and was succesful and he will do it again.
I dont think we will lose any current commits because of it though.
I also dont believe we will lose any because of a less than stellar season either. I am sure Hoke isnt sitting in living rooms telling kids all is well and we are going to win a NC this year. I am sure he is telling them we are building right now and you can help make something special. And you know what he would be right.
I'm sure there will be a couple of kids who will go back to OSU if it looks like they'll skate my on the worst offenses, but let's not act like OSU is going to get off without punishment for what happened with Pryor. Yes, they won't be nuked back to the stoneage (which was an idea I always thought was ludicrous), but Pryor+Tressel screwing up, along with whatever else the NCAA finds while investigating those accusations, is definitely going to lead to some significant sanctions. I'd be surprised if there wasn't at least a few scholarship reductions along with a year bowl ban, plus they'll have to go through this year with a new HC, a new QB, and some questions at other key positions like RB. Yes, OSU will probably survive to see another day, and recruiting against them will be more difficult than (some) assume it has been recently, but I still see the next coupld of years being quite neck-and-neck when it comes to recruiting in Ohio and the greater midwest, regardless of whether or not teams can point to upcoming/current OSU sanctions.
Regardless of the sanctions, anyone with half a clue can connect the dots, OSU is dirty, has been dirty and it will take years to wash it away. I have a little concern regarding Dunn, but either way this class could potentially be one for the ages. I believe Hoke and staff are recruiting in the positive, like true Michigan Men, judging from recruits comments. Go Blue!!