Is it just me, or does point shaving seem much harder to pull off in football as opposed to, say, basketball? You'd have to have some firm evidence for those allegations, because I'm guessing it'd be hard to detect on film.
Point Shaving from a BCS college
For it to work in football, you'd have to have participation on both sides of the ball. With basketball, you really only need the point guard and one other starter.
I doubt there is point shaving in football. Too many people would need to be involved for it to actually occur.
you just ruined the entire premise of "The Longest Yard"
Nelly does not approve
in dominating wins, a lineman could fail to maintain blocks or a qb/rb could fail to gain yards that consistently allowed the other team to come within the spread or over/under
or perhaps you have a young, turnover prone offense and a terrible matador of a defense running the 3-3-5
Haha, my first thought was "well, that could explain why Michigan can put up so many yards and so few points." Good to know I wasn't the only one.
I seriously doubt Michigan was in a place to do too much point shaving, though. I'm no betting wizard, but I think you generally need people to bet on your team to cover the spread to pull it off.
then the guy could just intentionally botch offensive or defensive playcalls
You could have a player fumble intentionally on the goal line.
It would be easier than u think. So many lopsided matchups in college with 30 point spreads. It's pretty easy to simply throw ur 2nd stringers in early, and call a game very conservatively once you have a 1 TD lead.
You only need the coaches involvement and maybe one player (the qb), to "lose a snap" here or there, or throw some wild passes.
it's in the kicking game. With spreads being 3 or 3 ½ pts etc...How many times have you heard an announcer make a comment about a missed FG or extra point coming back to haunt teams. Same can be said in Vegas or w/a bookie. Missing a FG as time expires can easily be attributed to nerves and pressure. The perfect combination for shaving and/or concealing motive.
I don't know, football is the ultimate "weakest link" sport. One player on defense could have a couple inopportune "bad plays" which result in touchdowns. A lineman could "miss" a block at a time that kills a scoring drive.
In some sense, basketball is harder. You need the best players to be in on it. If you have non-stars, you risk the star players having great games and risk your point shavers being benched. But, the reason I think you see more basketball scandals, is that if your best players are in on it, it's very easy.
I think that it would be pretty easy for a qb to manipulate the spread.
A couple picks in a game, a few failed throws on 3rd and 10, a couple fumbles on an exchange and you can leave 14+ points on the field no matter how hard your lineman, RBs, and WRs are trying.
As for defense or other offensive players, you'd need a group of players involved but I'd think it would be pretty easy to see such a schematic meltdown at play.
I challenge your premise that it's hard to shave points in football sir!
I'm probably the only one who will get this reference.
Good 'ol Scooter.
Anonymous sources are one thing. Anonymous facts? Seems pointless, but thanks for the "info" I guess.
How big of a BCS school? Are we talking something small like a Vanderbilt, or big like an Oklahoma?
Point shaving implies that people were betting on that school. It doesn't have to be, but my guess is that it's a school that regularly wins.
Not at all, after all, the two most recent point shaving scandals in the Big 10 involved Northwestern in football and basketball. That might have been during Northwestern's turn around in football, but they were god awful in basketball.
Like I said, it doesn't have to be, but it is MY guess that it's a school that's been winning. And yes, if they are shaving points, it means people are betting on that team.
What does winning have to do with "betting on that team"? You're not betting on wins and losses, you're betting on a line. You're betting against odds makers and the general public. The quality of the team has very little to do with weather money could be made by point shaving.
The team expected to lose will have to forfeit their game, while the team expected to win can just keep their games closer than what is comfortable. There is less downside to point-shaving when you are expected to win.
I think you are impoperly evaluating the values and concerns of a point shaving athlete. If you are the type of person who is willing to harm his team for personal benefit, you probably don't care much about winning.
I also think it's easier to shave points if you're on a bad team. If you're on a good team, you either have to shave points in games you're not favored to win by very much (thus negating your "forfeiting their game" argmunet) or games where you're heavily favored. If you're heavily favored, it's likely because your entire team is much better, meaning you'll have to do extra work to assure that you make up for any members of your team that play well. You also risk being pulled early in the game if it's a blowout. Finally, if your team is good and you are intentionally playing poorly, there's a better chance that you'll get benched than a guy on a poor team, since the better team is likely to have superior talent and depth. If you're a good player on a bad team, you probably don't risk getting benched even if you're playing poorly, probably don't have to worry about overcoming talented teammates playing well, and will probably get to play up until the final minute, regardless of score, allowing you more time to impact the final score.
Agree to disagree.
it seems to me that the team in question would have to be a really good team and that it was their offense that was involved. It seems like a great team would have a easier time pretending not to be able to score and stil win than pretending not to stop the other teams offense. this would mean they would have to be comfortable in their superiority and always be ahead of the other team
So this is simply you telling us you know something that we don't. Thanks a bunch! You don't really tell us anything without providing relevant information, ie, school name etc. but again thanks a bunch. BTW, my dad can beat up your dad.
Please be Dan Enos. Please be Dan Enos. Please be Dan Enos.
That would make sense since the OP specifically stated it was a BCS College and not university. Down with the Michigan Agricultural College!
with our Defense or kicking game the last 3 years, did it? I am pretty sure we have firm evidence to refute those allegations (because the film don't lie.....).
Unless you're going to mention the school, it doesn't do any good to tell us this information. All you are trying to do is get credit for knowing ahead of time what is going to happen. Being vague doesn't help that cause, especially when there have been rumors of this floating around for several weeks now.
I haven't heard any rumors, but then again I get 99% of my info from here. Do the rumors suggest which school, seeing as the OP won't tell us? (I guess the easiest way is to look at schools that win a lot of games closer than they're supposed to.)
Also, what was Yahoo's timeline for their next story? August or something, right?
I think the rumor was posted here, but then taken down. I know that this wasn't the first I've heard of it, though.
I think the Yahoo story was supposed to drop in early summer, so that could mean pretty much any of the future months.
I believe there are two coming. One was going to be in I think May and it was sort of big but not really. The bomb was supposed to come in August. I am guessing this is the bomb.
Please tell me you live in Ohio.
So you talked to a coach who coaches in the same state of the school that will be busted? That slims it down to 41 states excluding Alaska, North Dakota, South Dakota, New Hampshire, Maine, Rhode Island, Delaware, Vermont, and Montana since these states don't have a BCS school. Thanks for the info dude.
Also Hawaii, New Mexico, Nevada, Wyoming, Idaho, and Utah (since the Utes aren't participating in the Pac10 until next year).
Good call, sir. I was thinking FBS schools, not BCS. 15 states instead of 9.
Hey guys, I heard from a trusted source some BIG news that is going to come out about a current, future, or former Michigan football player. I can't say who, what, or when, but it will be a BIG story.
Just one hint so when it comes out people will know I am not full of BS the player in question is/was/will be one of the more popular players on the team.
And just when things were looking up for New Mexico State University.
You mean that App. St. and Toledo aren't real???!!! Thank God!
My guess is you talked to Toledo's head coach. If true, that means Ohio State would be the only option.
I like where your head is at, but Cincinnati, technically fits the bill as well.
His father played at Toledo though, he lives in Toledo and could be a possible graduate. They are close to the program because they attend games VERY often. I just looked through his posts.
I also have his address, phone number, relatives, etc. Yes, it's creepy. Yes, I wanted to know that fucking badly.
New information found. Preed1 is a graduate of Eastern Michigan I beieve, which also unfortunately puts Michigan in the mix. I still suspect Toledo though since he's probably closer to that program.
Good stalking, though, if it were Michigan, I think he probably doesn't post it here or would be a bit more cautions (i.e. using language like "allegedly").
I also didn't realize you were proposing a serious guess with Toledo. I thought you were just throwing a non-BCS school in Ohio so that Ohio State was the only potential BCS school, thus why I posted Cincy.
I texted him twice but he didn't answer :(
OMGROFLMAO! That's dedication boys and girls. The Michigan difference...
Also, please don't stalk me...
Good call on Cincy. I wonder what kind of red flags that might raise about Brian Kelly (as we get into complete and utter conspiracy theory nutjob territory).
I got from my friend. But I chose to dismiss it as either pointless speculation or wishful thinking.
I am not sure if the OP is any better. He is not better than Magnus who showed up here claiming he knew who the Michigan player (with the pervy roomie) was but couldnt tell us.
I know Magnus is just an attention whore, so I am just going to hagve to lump the OP along wiht him.
I can't be the only one who honestly doesn't want it to be OSU, can I?
I hope they get hammered for the Tressel situation, because over his coaching career that guy seems to have fostered an environment in which he's viewed as above reproach, so he can just turn his head while players make off like bandits and no one cares.
But, if OSU gets slammed too hard, that's bad for everybody. Even beyond the "I want to beat OSU at full strength" view, it's bad for the conference to have OSU's program get too sunk for too long. The Big10 needs a couple of elite level programs year-in, year-out to maintain their reputation as a big-time conference (and in the play-off-less, rankings-based world of college football, reputation is important). With Michigan down, it helps that OSU has kept up conference appearances.
If OSU gets hammered by the NCAA, and Michigan takes too long to rebuild, I could see the Big10 sliding into ACC-esque territory.
I think you're worrying too much. The ACC is the ACC because everyone is required by league rules to finish between 5-3 and 3-5 in conference. Even if OSU wasn't suddenly OSU anymore (it'll take a couple years after sanctions for this to be true, fwiw), there are enough top level programs to fill the void. Hopefully in three years time, we're a consistent top ten program again, Wisconsin seems to be a top program every other year, Iowa seems to be elite every three or four years, and then there's always Penn St.
I'm just a worrier, I guess that's why my friends call me whiskers.
I want their fans to be sad, embarrassed, enraged, whatever. If there's something shady going on, I want it all to come out, and I will laugh and laugh and laugh....
Honest to god even if it meant giving up The Game for a year or more because their program got the death penalty. I hate that place.
I agree since Toledo's head coach was on staff with the school down south
YAY! its not Toledo for once! ( i go to Toledo and it was sad to watch that program go to crap for a while when we got hit in basketball and football)
Scooter McDougal was a really good power back too. If he'd have put the time into recovering from knee injuries rather than being a dick, he could have been a pro.
Ok so if you know the coach what bcs program did he coach at?
Their new coach was at tO$U and was just hired in December 2010 and they played their Spring game last Saturday.
I heard this on the radio yesterday.... didn't sound like a institutional problem, just one player who is no longer there.
Bobby Boucher didn't graduate from high school!!!!!!!
is this a BIG story or a B1G story?
... is it a BIG story or a B1G story?
OMG! I call Soul-Mates!!!
You and ryanformayor are sooooo made for each other. Are you guys should totally MGoDate! Or at least start a band together
i dont know what to say.
How about "I do"!!!
It's our first MGoWedding!
I would like the chicken. Are you registered at Bed Bath & Beyond or Macy's?
Unless you're going with starting a band instead....
Both. But we also accept cash and michigan tickets.
You will look great if these allegations come to light on a major level, but if nothing comes of it, you never hear about it again. Win-win for you. Unless you're going to out who it is, or at least the school, then there's nothing to see here.
Man, I really hope I won money betting against this alleged team. I'll feel like an idiot if I lost cash betting on them
Allegedly Ronnie Harmon threw the 1986 Rose Bowl. That's not really point shaving, but it's relevant I guess.
If he did it, he had to have some help from some Iowa defensive players. UCLA scored 45 points, despite three turnovers and without their starting QB and RB.
tsio is at it again.
This board says there are legs to the rumours. I know nothing other than what I read there.
Bit of a sketchy message board, bit racist, quite sexist, but oh my god if Troy Smith threw the NC game... haha. Wow would that be wonderful.
looking through that degenerate forum. I love when guys use sports threads to dissolve into soft porn and anonymous racist crap. Now I wanna watch the OSU/UF game again to look for some of the things they pointed out.
If we're talking BCS colleges, Boston is the only one I can think of.
I agree this whole post is bulllshit no way can one player dictate a game unless it was a qb but even so play too bad and your ass is on the bench.
I would be really happy if it turned out to be an SEC school. I don't think I could handle it being tsio if it meant giving the SEC something to say back to our money/dirty recruiting allegations.
But if we beat Alabama in 2012 and drive by the wreckage of osu's program on the way home, I'll be happy anyways.
EDIT - Turns out that's probably not possible given what we do know. TO HELL WITH TSIO!
Ken Stickney aka "NevadaBuck" @ OSU
Follow the money.
What's the statute of limitations? Because my guess is Mike DeBord.