A point I hate to make about the basketball season
We have a good to great team that has some serious potential but we'd be kidding ourselves if we say we have enough depth.
I found it very scary that Mike Rothstein kept saying we will be good IF one of our 4 main guys doesn't go down. Hoping for zero injuries never goes well...the football team would be nowhere near as bad if Molk, Minor and Odoms weren't missing time and if Warren and Cissoko were 100% healthy.
So I am very cautiously optimistic about out bball season. We have a BRUTAL schedule and that automatically means that some guys are going to get banged up.
We will have the potential to knock off anybody and i mean ANYBODY on our day, but don't expect great overall results. If we make the dance I will be ecstatic.
November 11th, 2009 at 9:43 AM ^
But I don't quite think the problem with Cissoko is health... Unless by health you mean on the team. Just sayin
November 11th, 2009 at 10:29 AM ^
Hey brew - are you drunk this early?
November 11th, 2009 at 10:32 AM ^
Can only wish...
November 11th, 2009 at 10:42 AM ^
All I'm saying is I am sure Cissoko is very healthy right now sitting on a couch contemplating his future eating potato chips. But, he is no longer on the team. Therefore the problem with Cissoko is not health but the fact that he is no longer playing for M... Sorry if in my hungover state I tend to put words together that are comparable to the level of Charlie Weis' gameplan aka Dogshit.
November 11th, 2009 at 11:06 AM ^
Do'oh, that's my bad, I didn't see the reference to Cissoko or to football in the OP. Then seeing a reply talking about football gave me cognitive dissonance. I should have just actually read the entire OP.
November 11th, 2009 at 12:02 PM ^
Cissoko definitely had a shoulder injury this year.
November 11th, 2009 at 2:40 PM ^
yeah, he also definitely had an attendance injury.
November 11th, 2009 at 9:43 AM ^
and injuries don't play nearly as big a role as in football. Of course there is a chance, but it is not like a football team, where teams pretty much know that at some point most of the 2nd string will end up getting extended playing time due to injuries.
I wouldn't be surprised at all if Michigan trotted out manny, deshawn, zack, LLP, darius, etc. for the entire season, and none of them missed significant time. Same can't be said for a football team, where you know that at some point someone is going to miss a game or two (at least).
I guess in summary, a (serious) injury in basketball, requiring missing games, is a surprise...in football it is essentially the norm.
November 11th, 2009 at 12:00 PM ^
this is the case!
But you're right, while injuries play a smaller role in basketball it would be stupid of us to discount their possibility. Apparently Manny's hamstrings are bothering him a little bit, let's hope that problem doesn't grow.
Go Blue!
November 11th, 2009 at 9:44 AM ^
I would argue with Rothstein's view that there are four people we can't afford to lose. I think it's really just Sims and Harris that are that important. They survived last year with game managers at PG, so there's no reason to think that Douglass and / or LLP couldn't handle that. Novak is a good glue guy and a hustler, but I think they could survive his loss.
November 11th, 2009 at 9:50 AM ^
Completely agree. If Gibson steps up, and I think there is reason to believe that he could, we could even survive losing Sims for a couple of weeks.
November 11th, 2009 at 10:26 AM ^
sentence is "IF"... gibson has a hard time remembering that he has to play on both ends of the floor. on O he'll make a great play that will make you ask yourself if he really just did that, but then he forgets to get back on D. or he'll be playing great on D but will miss the easiest of shots...
November 11th, 2009 at 9:46 AM ^
been binge drinking and taking drugs since he got kicked off the team?
November 11th, 2009 at 9:54 AM ^
Are people seriously already panicking and acting like the sky will fall at any time? Jesus, let's play a couple of games before we start all these "what if" threads. Alot of posters need to just learn to enjoy the moment and quit worrying about the future all the time. We're #15 in the country, everybody played well during the exhibition game, and I couldn't be happier about Michigan bball right now.
November 11th, 2009 at 10:31 AM ^
Agreed
November 11th, 2009 at 11:45 AM ^
What the hell are you talking about dude?
November 11th, 2009 at 2:41 PM ^
have you forgotten that our past two head coaches were tommy amaker and brian ellerbe? it's just residual PTSD.
November 11th, 2009 at 9:58 AM ^
Injuries in basketball aren't really expected.. specially since most of our guys are smaller/lighter. You're watching too much football. Do not extrapolate the norms of one sport to another.
November 11th, 2009 at 9:59 AM ^
I agree we are in trouble if one of the stars go down. Which team in the big ten wouldn't be either. If state were to lose kalin they would be in deep crap if purdue loses hummel they are screwed so that basically apply to all teams.
November 11th, 2009 at 10:23 AM ^
This is the deepest team Michigan has had in 10 years. Manny and Deshawn are considerably better than everyone else. If they got hurt, the team would suffer--but they would not be replaced with walk-ons. Very little of value in your post. Sorry.
November 11th, 2009 at 10:34 AM ^
"We will have the potential to knock off anybody and i mean ANYBODY on our day, but don't expect great overall results. If we make the dance I will be ecstatic."
You do realize that our team should be much deeper and better than last year's team, right? I'm all for being cautious in our prognostications, but being "ecstatic" just for making the dance seems to sell this team short. I expect to make the tournament, will be happy if we make it, and will be crushed if we don't. I'll save "ecstasy" for making the sweet sixteen and making sweet love to Monica Belluci, not necessarily in that order.
November 11th, 2009 at 10:56 AM ^
This mindset can potentially lelad one to be pounding out "THIS IS UNACCEPTABLE!!!!" into the keyboard when they go .500 in the Big ten or something. They've made the tournament once in ten years. A return trip is the goal.
November 11th, 2009 at 11:03 AM ^
Good to see the crazies haven't completely taken over.
November 11th, 2009 at 11:26 AM ^
There's a difference between being positive about the team and expecting good things for the first time in years, and being a "crazy." I certainly won't use the dreaded "U" word if we don't make the tourney. At the same time, based on our performance last year, the fact that we haven't lost anyone of note and are adding some potentially positive pieces, we can be a little optimistic.
November 11th, 2009 at 12:41 PM ^
I dont know Fuzzy. Last year's team got worse as the big 10 season went along. I dont really think anything positive came out of it or real progress was made last year. We kinda lucked into the tourney because of a fluky OOC win in November. But, Beilein's team regressed all winter last season. Positive? Whatever. That's barely tolerable, IMHE
November 11th, 2009 at 3:02 PM ^
Hah, you got me. I'm a hypocrite because this year's football team is EXACTLY like last year's basketball team. Except for the fact where they're not at all alike.
Why am I getting crap for being optimistic about the basketball team again?
November 11th, 2009 at 4:33 PM ^
I disagree about the team getting worse as the big 10 season went along. Sure the win over Duke was unexpected, and a fairly big upset that looked great in March. However, the team was exposed early, like in the first big 10 game at home v. Wisconsin, when we essentially were out of the game for the entire game. Down the stretch this team actually played much better. In order they won at NW (remember NW had just beat MSU at the bres); they beat Minny at home in a must win game; lost a heartbreaker at Iowa; beat Purdue at home (huge win); hung in there against wiscy on the road; and picked up a must win over minnesota on the road; and then clobbered Iowa in the first round of the BTT. Not sure if that qualifies as a regressing team.
November 11th, 2009 at 5:30 PM ^
He doesn't actually think the basketball team regressed, he's sarcastically suggesting I'm a hypocrite because I've said that this year's football team has regressed.
November 11th, 2009 at 5:37 PM ^
Maybe not a hypocrite. Maybe more pointing out that you or I dont know shit when it really comes down to it about whether or not any team is getting better or worse. Fact is, some nimrods were saying the exact same thing about the hoops teams last winter, after the 1-4 Big 10 start gave way to something like 4-5, about regression and what not as they were Monday. I could not resist.
Its nothing personal. I save personal stuff for the nozzles in that thread that had just signed up that afternoon in order to just bitch and moan.
Yours is just one opinion I disagree with. At least in the severity in which you analyzed with.
Of course, there is also a chance I got you mixed up with somebody. Oops.
November 11th, 2009 at 5:30 PM ^
I was being satirical, specifically towards Dunlap.
But, thanks for standing up for our Hoops team, though. They deserve that kind of support. They, just like the football team, are working their asses off so we can have fun watching and talking about them.
November 11th, 2009 at 12:45 PM ^
If you don't think we lost anyone of note from last year, you weren't paying much attention last year.
November 11th, 2009 at 12:56 PM ^
CJ Lee might have been the most valuable 'role player' the program has had since Mike Griffith circa 1988-90.
November 11th, 2009 at 11:26 AM ^
Could I persuade you otherwise if I reminded you that WE ARE MICHIGAN DAMMIT!!11!! ?
November 11th, 2009 at 12:03 PM ^
with the team returning so many seasoned players, especially manny and sims, that includes 90% of the offense last year and the top 6 scorers...add in some talented freshman, i would hope the goal is not just to return to the tourney, the goal should be improve on what they did last year and make a splash in the tourney
November 11th, 2009 at 12:22 PM ^
There's a difference in who is holding the goals.
For you and me, two people who will not have an iota of impact on what the team does, there isn't a "goal", there's an "expectation level". Given Michigan Basketball's history, my expectation level is to make the tournament.
For the players, who likely hold aspirational goals, as that's often how these things work, I'm sure their goals are higher than just "make the tournament".
November 11th, 2009 at 11:50 AM ^
but I don't think depth is a major one. Maybe at PG, but they have many contributors returning (almost all actually) and some freshman talent. By mid-season, I expect that Michigan could survive a short to mid term injury to one of their major contributors and still make the tourney depending on the matchups during that stretch. They have some talent, probably not NCAA championship game type talent, agreed, but enough to contend in the upper class of the Big Ten.
November 11th, 2009 at 2:07 PM ^
The only contributors Michigan lost were Merrit and Lee. Their heart and leadership will be missed, but not much beyond that. On the flip side, Michigan gains Morris, Vogrich, McLimans, Cronin, and Morgan under scholarship. Morgan might not play due to his injury, but the rest certainly will. We also have Akunne as a walk on (or did I hear that he got a scholly?) who will probably see some minutes.
I, too, am "cautiously optimistic" but it's not because I'm concerned about depth.
November 11th, 2009 at 2:32 PM ^
McLimas may redshirt.
Vogrich has a long way to go and it is yet to see if he'll crack the rotation.
November 11th, 2009 at 4:39 PM ^
while I think morris is going to be a key cog in the system this year, the most important thing to consider when talking about pg depth is that Beilein's system doesn't require a pg that can drive and dish. It works better if you have that weapon in the arsenal, but it is not essential (i.e. last years team) and WVU elite 8 team.
November 11th, 2009 at 5:01 PM ^
I think 10-12 losses is pretty realistic for this team. Not sure we are the 15th best team in the country, I think we are exciting and entertaining but we definitely have some shortcomings.