this may be of some local interest
Please don't kill me for this, just read the article!!
I would suggest changing your post title to reflect the subject matter of the article (I'm assuming its a "CC" topic without reading it). Then give your "don't kill me" disclaimer in the post.
Just a suggestion.
EDIT: Browsed the article a bit, I just found this funny:
Stanford’s existing pro-style system was a natural transition for Harbaugh, but Rodriguez faced a greater challenge. Many of the players he inherited at Michigan were inappropriate for his innovative speed-oriented system.
As if it was an "easy" transition to take over a 1-11 team. I'm not saying whether Harbaugh had a harder task than RR, as there has been plenty of debate here about that before, but the language "natural transition" makes it sound like everything was just set up for him to come in and win.
It is easier in that it was a pro style to pro style transition where he didn't need to overhaul the offensive mentality, practice techniques and find players that were suitable to run the offense in a pool of unsuitable players.
How is that not obvious to you when you read something like that? The team did not perfom well before Harbaugh, but Harbaugh didn't have a QB who could only run a 5.2 second 40 when he needed a QB who could run a 4.5 second 40. He had players at his disposal who were capable of running his system. That is what the article says when it says "ease of transition." That is really not that hard to understand.
EDIT: You can neg me all you want, but your constant backing of the coach at Stanford and comment bias againt the coach at the University of Michigan is really grinding. Old act.
I don't want to argue with you, I get the point. My point was that in the paragraph that quote was located in, they were comparing the 3 year records of the two coaches. Basically concluding that RR acheiving that record was harder b/c of the change in style. As if there were not other factors involved in a 3 year record.
Also, those are incredibly large blanket terms, "pro-style" and "spread". Harbaugh's offense now looks nothing like what was run under Harris.
Like I said, I don't want to argue with you and it was "obvious", I just thought it was funny that they were comparing records based only on style of offense. Not to mention they didn't even mention defensive transitions.
I totally agree on that point, Stanford was dead before the new coach and actually had more wins the next season and got better every year. RR actually took the team to it's first losing season in almost EVER, but then again we did lose practically every important player we had to transfers, graduation or the NFL. Regardless the research in the article on this topic in particular and the logic is weak!
precisely because the AD felt the team had far more talent than a 1-11 record reflected, as they'd been 5-7 the previous year and were bringing nearly everyone back. That, plus everyone hated him. Harbaugh's job was helped enormously by Harris recruiting a Heisman-caliber running back (Toby Gerhart).
Claiming Stanford was devoid of talent as evidenced by their 1-11 record is not justified by the actual facts. Stanford's talent was about average from all I've gleaned - they were far from dead.
Have friends in the Stanford community, they hated Walt Harris, and had high expectations going into that season, 1-11 floored them, this from a guy who had just made Pitt relevant again, with a pretty high octane offense to boot.
"You are what your record says you are." ;-)
no??? I didnt either with all that damn crying!!! lol
Says the anonymous internet poster
Who is this guy Your?
I came here to kill you. But when I got here I saw you linked to a bleacher report article and now I want to torture you instead.
When you title your thread "Please don't kill me for this..." it's all fair game
drink bleach erreport
Not your best effort... unless that was the point... I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and say it was funny because of how not funny it actually was... +1 mgopoint.
Anything his avatar says is funny.
As soon as I saw the link was from bleachereport.com I hesitated to click on it. But I did because I am bored. It was actually a decent article and I agree with mostly everything written in it. We are a decent defense away, not even a good defesne, to be a 9-10 win team. I believe once we get a new DC we could win the Big Ten next year. You know the offense is going to be even more deadly next year. The possibilities are endless. Just hope DB makes the right decision and keeps RR.
Non informative title + bleacher report link = Bolivia
That's right, nmajali! For your post today MGoBlog is sending you and your new bride on a beautiful honeymoon to Bolivia and Negaragua! You'll get to meet the beautiful locals such as emo and bouje, but watch out for those nasty Spartan trolls!
All of this and semi-sarcastic personal attacks are yours for posting bleacher report on MGoBlog!
Mrs. Rodriguez is a decent writer.
I'm not being pro Harbaugh here, but what the hell does this sentence even mean? Could they have offered even one bit of evidence to back up what is probably the most gereic sentence ever written?
Harbaugh’s traditional, pro-style strategy is unlikely to bring any national titles to Ann Arbor.
I've heard it before here. People always say that Harbaugh's system will win 9-10 games a year and never a national championship, while RR's is guaranteed a NC. There is absolutely no logic behind that, considering Harbaugh is essentially a half of a football game (this year at Stanford) from playing in the NC game. I just don't buy that at all. Both coaches (RR and Harbaugh) could, but may not, win a NC.
The last time we won a National Championship (1997) we utilized a Pro-Style offense and the last time we challenged for one (2006) we utilized a Pro-Style offense. Frankly the style of offense does not matter as we have seen from the last 10 National Champions with a nearly equal mix of spread and pro-style.
Either offensive strategy can win, but you also need a complete team with good special teams and a good or excellent defense if you want to win it all.
Don't let your 5-year watching streak end. I went on my honeymoon and unknowingly "missed" the first game of the season a few years ago. I just happened to need a break from the beach and Bermuda sun and went back to the hotel room. Conveniently, I was able to catch a significant portion of that game. Sure, I'll never live it down but it was definitely worth it.
I watched two nights of the Stanley Cup when the Red Wings won it a few years ago on my honeymoon. It's my honeymoon too, so some nights we do what I want a.k.a. I watch hockey and she goes to bed early. Keep your pimp hand strong
HMMMM, its going to be hard to keep that streak going and keep the romance there, I will have to present it as a bonding opportunity, ya ya, that would be a crazy idea!!
Never (ok - rarely) a big sporting event before noon. If you can develop a morning game, the world can be your oyster !! Plus you'll be all relaxed for your weekend tee times !!!
Go Blue !
I hated that part in the movie. Ricky was going to be a star at USC. I blame Ricky's death on dough boy aka ice cube. Great movie by the way.
I blame the game.
going to stay eligible, and lets be honest, his game film was not all that. Also, Dough Boy did nothing but love his brother, sure they had some problems, but look at their mother. Dough Boy was the family enforcer, only reason Rick was able to say above the fray as long as he did.
It was a tragic event, but lets not go blaming Dough Boy here.
his 40 speed, as evidence aboved, was less than impressive and his legs were too stubby. sure he would be a decent signing day flyer if we missed out on somebody else but he isn't big enough for Pac 10, or Big 10, play.
Subject says it all :)
Either they don't know, don't show, or don't care what's goin' on in Ann Arbor.
who want to discuss the most important news (or the lack of it) that is currently affecting our program, your asinine thread with a
1. useless title
2. link to Bleacher FREAKIN report
is going to be thrown in my face. I will have no choice but to hang my head in shame and concede defeat.
In short, you just lost us the war. I hope you are happy in Bolivian.
I wasn't going to read the article, but then I saw not one, but two exclamation points!!1!
with my comment.
"John Lennon is dead Butters"
This article actually has a lot of good points... which is surprising for the bleacher report... I guess even a blind squirrel...
This line stood out:
A “Michigan Man” (or “Michigan Woman”) is simply someone who is a loyal and positive representative of the University of Michigan. Fielding Yost, the Wolverine’s greatest coach and ultimate “Michigan Man” came from a small town in West Virginia, just like Rich Rodriguez.
Just because I'm sick of the BS "Michigan Man" argument.
And Yost also came to Michigan by way of Stanford.
PS... I am in the camp that Coach Rodriguez IS a "Michigan Man".
If that wasn't completely clear, I apologize.
I've never cared for Bleacher Report, nor recommended an article. But today is the day, because I really like that article. For the most part, I agree with it.
- RR bldg a championship team. Agree
- JH wrong guy. Don't know this for sure. But, do think RR is a great coach.
- Witch Hunt over. Disagree. Won't be over for several years, if ever.
- Michigan Man myth. Agree. RR is a Mich Man.
- Anon blog posters have no cred. Agree. But Brian, Tom, myself, et al are not anon.
- Other coaches. Agree, but irrelevant.
- Future looks bright. Fully agree.
- Coach passionate about team. Fully agree.
- Team passionate about coach. Fully agree.
- Time to act is now. Meh. DB has to keep word, don't think this is huge.
I haven't read BR for a long time, but if this is a typical article, I don't see what all the grief is about.
I agree. While all of the points have been said before, this is a pretty good summary of why to keep him.
- RR bldg a championship team. Agree
Why? Going 15-21 in three years is not a normal progression along the way to a national championship program. Pretty much every coach who's won a national title over the past 10 years achieved a major breakthrough in his second year at that school. We're now reduced to hoping for the breakthrough to occur in year four.
I happen to think that with (if?) RR at the helm we will win a Legends Division championship next year (at least I hope, and think that is reasonable).
And you are basing that on what?
Hiring a Defensive Coordinator and changing the scheme up for the 3rd time in four years (not counting the mid-season scheme changes)?
The Defense getting a year older, freshman becoming Sophmores, etc?
Special Teams improving from from abject failure to adequate?
The offense making huge improvements again in the off-season so that they can carry the team for the entire season?
I am sorry but don't think the defense improving from piss-poor to merely acceptable gets us a divisional championship. Nor do I think this offense, even if it improves has shown the ability to be compeitive against good teams.
1) If Casteel comes, we wouldn't be changing schemes again.
2) Look how much better Avery got in the course of the season. I am excited by the potential of a lot of the freshman. Woolfolk will be back as well.
3) I got nothing except that Hagerup won't have a repeat of the first half of this season again.
4) The offense will have a 2nd year starter at QB (for the first time), who happens to be one of the, if not most, exciting players in college football. If the defense improves to a middle of the road scoring defense, the offense will score more than enough points to win a lot of games next year.
1) Big IF, very big if. Plus we have two guys (half the defensive staff) who coached with and under Casteel. You would think they would be able to impart their knowledge of the 3-3-5 onto this team. Even if Casteel is the DC next year a meteoric improvement is not guarenteed.
2) Yes the younger players will get better, but by how much? There are many freshman who look like they could be very good players. But, a new DC comes in, potentially more position switches...
4) Yes the offense will improve next year, but is it enough to not only be competitive against MSU, Iowa, Nebraska, & OSU but beat them. One player does not make an offense. Our RB's need to improve and the WR's need to be more consistent. Frankly a lot of things have to happen for us to get to 7 or 8 wins next year, let alone talk about championships.
are you going for? I'm not sure if you are
1.) Pointing out that there is very little hope next year to do well considering all the problems we had, so we should get rid of RR
2.) Pointing out that there is very little hope next year to do well considering all the problems we had, so we should keep RR and keep our expectations low
Just wondering, because, according to you, our defense is still going to be bad next year, because we are going to have a new DC, and our offense can't play against the big boys, and has a small chance of improving enough next year to do so. If this is true, are you saying that a switch of coach (DC and OC) would put us below .500?
Are you suggesting that Michigan change offensive coordinators?
but if we were to get a new coach, I am guessing we would get both a new DC and OC. If we keep RR, we will at most, get a new DC.
Thanks for clarifying.
The overarching point I am trying to make is that there is constant noise about how great this team is going to be next year if RR is retained and there is not much evidence to support that conclusion.
If RR is here next year, I think that the expectations in 2011 for this team are going to be very high and probably not attainable. I do not see a championship team next year, maybe in 2012 should the defense get fixed.
And in the interest of full disclosure, I would like to see Harbaugh roam the sidelines at Michigan Stadium next year.
Evidence of how good a team is going to be in the future is pretty much nonexistent. It's all speculation and educated guesses and I would be willing to say that there's just as much conjecture for how good next year's team will be as there will be for how bad they will be.
Also, I don't think anyone was confused on which side of the coaching fence you sat on, just like how everyone knows which side I'm sitting on. (Hint: It's not yours lol)
You say that you see at max 8 wins next year with RR, because our defense is not going to be good no matter who we bring in, and our offense probably isn't going to get much better either, since our wide recievers didn't play well enough, nor our running backs. If we bring in Harbaugh, we would have the same problems you said we have on defense, and the same recievers and runningbacks on offense, except, they would be learning a new offense as well. Does this mean you would expect a win total max of .500 if Harbaugh comes, but accept this because it will be better for the future?
1) Fair enough, I think it depends a lot on if the new WVU coach makes Casteel feel like his job is in jeopardy but it sounds like that may not happen.
2) I seem to remember players biggest jump in development is 1st to 2nd year (size being in 2nd to 3rd year) and a lot of these guys have very valuable experience.
4) Smith should look like he did in '09 and the end of '10. Shaw and Cox should be healthy. Hopkins will have a year under his belt and assuming RR stays Dee will be here but who knows how he will be as a freshman. The WR's will only get better since everyone will be back (including Odoms :) ).
I find it hard to believe that next years teams will do worse than this years team in terms since we won 7 games this year. Out of conference games shouldn't be too bad. ND under the lights, the atmosphere will be electric. I have no clue about SDSU, I have heard that they are pretty good but I really don't know. Lolphers. @NW might be tough. Home against MSU and I'm assuming MSU won't be as good as they were this year, Iowa '09 to '10 syndrome. Purdue..... Iowa loses Clayborn and Stanzi but Ferentz is a good coach so you can't really underestimate Iowa in any given season. Illinois, Nebraska, and OSU to round out the schedule. I still doubt that the team will be good enough to win against Nebraska and OSU next year.
And I want you to be right!
This year has caused me to take a more pessimistic outlook for next year. And truth be told, many times the special seasons come out of nowhere. 1997 as a case in point. Hope that happens again!
I'm basing it on being a Michigan fan and hoping that our team is good enough to accomplish this.
I do think we will at least be slightly better on defense and special teams. I also hope that our competition will be worse. Other than that, I agree with you. There really isn't much evidence to support that hope.
I'd be able to place the appropriate weight in your statement if you cited had some examples.
that most coaches win the national title in their second year, ala Tressel and Miles, or if they are just ok, their 3rd year, ala Saban. RR failed to win the national championship in his second year, and then again failed in his 3rd year with the program. Our best bet at this point is to cut our losses and hire Harbaugh. If he can't win the national title by 2012, then we'll just have to go back to the drawing board and find a real "Michigan Man". /s
I believe that our offense is going to improve significantly next year. They were already good. Next year, they will be a juggernaut. I believe that Robinson will be better, that our O-Lline will be awesome, that the addition of Dee Hart will help the running, and that the receiving corps is only going to improve as well.
On the defense, I believe we will see a huge jump in the secondary, and also a jump with the linebackers. I think, with Martin & Roh, the d-line will already be pretty good. I also think that our depth is only going to get better (Jake Ryan, and several of the freshman who red-shirted.)
I concur with the statement about contending for the Legends division championship.
Regarding playing with OSU & Nebraska, there is one thing suggested which I hadn't fully thought of, but had observed during the season. It seemed that once Michigan got down vs. a stiff opponent, they collapsed, to some degree. I actually don't think Michigan was that far from competing with several of the teams they played against this year. Next year, I believe they turn things around, and stay in games all the way through.
Completely agree with the fact that offense will be even better next year. Especially after noticing that no matter how electric our offense has been, we have dropped many easy passes, fumbled more than enough number of times, and thrown terrible interceptions.
I understand if you want Harbugh or you just don't like RR, but can you honestly look at Denard, the offense and 22 starters returning and think we are not going to get better next year? You sure are jaded after the last couple of years.
Also all of those teams that had their "breakthrough" in year 2 also had their QB and a ton of talent in place on defense.
Meyer-Leak was a 4yr Senior starter and Tebow was in as a changeup.
Carrol -C. Palmer was already there.
Tressel-Krenzel-he wasn't that great but Hawk,Carpenter etc...sure the hell were.
Miles-Come on Saban had the thing rocking.
Also, if that was your criteria why are we going after Harbaugh? He sucked in year 2.
Also, RR did turn WV around in year 2.
I just cant think of any.
Stop demanding actual results that matter from the coach. People on here get all worked up about it. Plus, I love how everyone assumes improvement by us, but disregards that other teams who have been outrecruiting us the last 3 years can improve too.
This blog is loaded with otherwise very intelligent people. The best of the best fans. Sadly, many of them seem to look at this football program like it is some start-up after the death penalty like SMU or something. Having standards and wanting to see them met doesn't mean a fan is ignorant. At the same time, arguing for the same path that isn't getting results, doesn't make a fan any more intelligent.
After 3 years of this, it is pretty obvious that the lack of any real urgency or standards by this coach in his approach to building this program has been a huge problem. Not sure if we are going to get Harbaugh, but the 180-degree switch to ultra high expectations of beating up our rivals will be known from moment 1 of his hire. He'll likely put his own ass to the fire in the first press conference. He knows this ain't UCONN or Vanderbilt.
The days of "were trying awful hard" and "our guys are working hard and improving" and the rest of the similar benign general cliches are done when Harbaugh comes in. Fine, it wasn't my bag anyways. I was sort of looking at envy at Dantonio running his mouth and his team covering the check for him by meeting his expectations the last 3 years.
It makes me sick to admit it too.
We're currently a paper tiger in football. If Rodriguez can turn that around, keep him. I just don't think the people that matter in the decision making process believe he can.
when you say things like " the lack of any real urgency or standards by this coach in his approach to building this program has been a huge problem." So you don't think RR has a sense or "urgency?" Honestly? You don't feel he has championship or winning "standards?" I mean, come on. These amorphous terms and his supposed lack of them does not really sound like legitimate argument. It sounds kind of ludicrous actually.
There is should be no problem with people not liking RR or advocating for Harbaugh, and I actually agree with you that some otherwise very intelligent posters here do seem to talk about M like we were starting from scratch with a program in kind of a shambles three years ago. But of the legit arguments against RR, "standards," "urgency" or "high expectations" are not to be found.
Those are basically my arguments for keeping RR, I am willing to double down on next year as I believe its going to be special.
but that may have been the best bleacher report article i have ever read ... still lacked pure evidence but it is an opinon piece and the bar is really low
Disclaimer : this is not my article, nor do I agree or disagree with it's content
If you don't even have an opinion on this article after having read it, why should we bother?
I like reading words
To see you read some words.
Uninformative Post Title...
By your powers combined, I AM CAPTAIN FAILPOST!!!
one of the worst ways to die? Radiation poisoning. It can all be prevented by wearing your CC suit.
1. What kind of man gets married during football season. (congrats BTW)
2. Honeymoon during bowl season? Did you not have faith in this team?
Eh... you used a crappy uninformative title, so I had to neg you for that. I would like to skip "CC: Surprisingly good article from Bleacher Report", but I ended up clicking here instead.
Why is it that people now assume Casteel is coming? Seems hugely unlikely (aside from the fact that RR staying seems unlikely). There's a reason Casteel didn't come in the first place. You think either he or M wants to piss off the state of WV again? And, by hiring Casteel, RR would create the impression that his success has always been contingent on Casteel. No way.
I agree that its a bit premature to assume that Casteel is going to be the next DC at Michigan, but I have to disagree with you on two points: First, I doubt that Michigan is really worried about pissing off WV in deciding whether or not to hire Casteel. Second, I don't think Rodriguez is worried about creating an impression that he cannot have success without Casteel. I could be wrong, but I highly doubt that is a determinative factor in the decision.
"Jim Harbaugh is the wrong guy" and later.... "Jim's pro-style is unlikely to bring any national titles to Michigan". Also, the comparison of records for the first three years is basically identical.
That record comparison is the lamest shallowest analysis possible. People who won't look any deeper are admitting they don't want to know why Rodriguez is in hot water.
Michigan isn't about slipping by UMASS, and getting rousted by it's rivals. It doesn't matter how gaudy the offensive stats look. Harbaugh has BEATEN more ranked teams in his league than Rodriguez has won conference games total. In fact throw out this year for Stanford and he had as many wins against ranked league teams as Rich has had in 3 years.
What evidence exists that Rodriguez is taking this anywhere in the league? People act like he is just too smart for the Big Ten and eventually he'll beat everyone in sight and win the whole BCS thing. What evidence exists that he'll do that at Michigan?
The program is going in another direction most likely because we don't crap in one hand and hope in the other with the Michigan football program. People who want to base the future on hope are being wreckless.
Harbaugh has also managed to LOSE to a bunch of terrible teams he should have beaten handily. It's dishonest to look at one side of the ledger only. Harbaugh looks pretty awesome when you only compare on issues that make him look better.
I didn't realize there existed teams that Stanford "should have beaten handily." Going 1-11 suggests even the San Jose States, Navy's, and Washington States of the world do not fit that category.
Considering his team was able to beat 40 point favorites USC in 07, I would think they were also good enough to beat 6 win UCLA (which they lost to by 4 touchdowns), 5 win Washington, 5 win Washington State, and 3 win Notre Dame. I guess as long as he beats USC, he can lose to 3 win teams all he wants.
Sorry - totally forgot about the transitive property. My bad.
With 19-20 starters returning including the quarterback for the first time you aren't even curious to see if they can finally turn things around? If you have that little faith in the players what do you expect any other coach to do?
This article presented nothing new in the way of being informative. Re-hashed, warmed over info that has been discussed in a pro vs. con format several times in forums that range from the legit (this site) to the absurd (other sites).
for your wedding. You're welcome. Oh, and when the game is on, tell her for every point Michigan scores above Miss St, you'll take her to that many chick flicks. She'll sit there next to you for the game and cheer with you.