Players (including Denard) were asked at the combine whether they're straight

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February 28th, 2013 at 7:09 PM
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Erik_in_Dayton
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Players (including Denard) were asked at the combine whether they're straight

I'm not sure how many people read the conversation we had last week (this week?) about sexual orientation and employment with the NFL, but a report from this week sheds light on that:

Prospects Nick Kasa, TE from Colorado, Le'Veon Bell (yes, that one), and our own Denard Robinson stated in interviews that they were asked, essentially, whether they were gay or straight during the combine.  The NFL is going to investigate at least one team, and it stated that league policy is that sexual orientation should not be considered in the hiring process.  The NFL-NFLPA collective bargaining agreement also prohibits such discrimination, and the NFLPA may conduct its own investigation into what happened at the combine. 

The NFL also said, “Like all employers, our teams are expected to follow applicable federal, state and local employment laws,”  though I'm not sure how much we can apply a generic statement like that to this situation. 

http://espn.go.com/nfl/draft2013/story/_/id/8995947/nfl-looks-combine-sex-orientation-question 

Anyway, this furthers what I thought was an interesting discussion and has nothing to do with the basketball team.  I also realize the flammability of this topic, but we did okay last time.  

 

 

 

It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future. -- Yogi Berra

                         

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February 28th, 2013 at 7:14 PM | If we (Score:1 Trolling)
Hokemaniac24
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haven't heard about Manti, then we know the real reason.

2013 will be the year.

February 28th, 2013 at 7:40 PM | I heard Manti Te'o's answer (Score:4 Normal)
maizenblue92
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I heard Manti Te'o's answer to the question of whether or not he was straight was, (laughs) "Yes, very near to it."

"I tried to but a pencil in the light socket but it was too wide and didn't fit so I used a paperclip."-Terrelle Pryor, Future Rhodes Scholar

February 28th, 2013 at 7:14 PM | Whether or not they were (Score:5 Normal)
RakeFight
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Whether or not they were fishing for sexual orientation, it is also illegal to ask someone's marital status in a job interview situation.  

February 28th, 2013 at 8:08 PM | They asked a Nick Kasa (Tight (Score:5 Normal)
willywill9
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They asked a Nick Kasa (Tight end from Colorado) if he liked girls.  I know what you mean, but there's definitely no getting around it.  They're wrong on every way imagineable to ask these questions.

Touchdown Michigan!

February 28th, 2013 at 8:51 PM | Besides being wrong (Score:5 Normal)
dnak438
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it's just stupid. Don't they have better questions to ask? It's a waste of the short time they have to interview players.

February 28th, 2013 at 7:15 PM | I personally think the teams (Score:5 Normal)
Hoke-a-maniac
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I personally think the teams shouldn't be allowed to ask. Also what does it really matter. If you can play football you can play whether you're gay or straight.

February 28th, 2013 at 7:21 PM | Well, actually, I think they (Score:5 Normal)
jtmc33
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Well, actually, I think they should be able to ask those questions of Tight Ends and Wide Receivers....

Class of '97: 4 Years -- 4 Four-loss seasons

February 28th, 2013 at 7:25 PM | Offensive line (Score:5 Normal)
BlueCE
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Offensive line

-------

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Discussions that aims to find facts, highlight different points of view and strengthen opinion.

February 28th, 2013 at 8:26 PM | Hm, what you personally think (Score:4 Normal)
andrewG
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Hm, what you personally think jives very well with what the law dictates.

February 28th, 2013 at 8:51 PM | While I agree that teams (Score:5 Normal)
1484
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While I agree that teams should not be able to ask a question like that, they are likely looking for something other than their sexual orientation.  They are looking for their reaction to the question.  If a player says "Fuck you, man!  Hell naw!" in a situation that requires tact (as open interviews in the combine do), then they will know that they may have a PR problem in the future. 

This line of questioning is common, no matter the field.  It's not the actual answer that is analyzed, but the response to the question.  That being said, I'm sure they could get the same result by asking something else that throws off or offends the players.

EDIT: To further reinforce my point, players that have not come out yet are unlikely to do so with a split second decision at the combine.  So if a player has been saying "I am straight" his entire career, it is very unlikely that he will change his tune in an interview.  I don't think the intent is to get an answer to the question, only to see how the player reacts.  In a way, they could actually use that question to decide not to draft someone who will get the team in trouble by going all John Rocker at some point.  If a player responds "I ain't no INSERT HOMOPHOBIC SLUR" they may be turned away from that play. 

Hail.

February 28th, 2013 at 11:34 PM | Doesn't change the fact that (Score:5 Normal)
andrewG
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Doesn't change the fact that you cannot inquire about someone's sexual orientation in a job interview without opening yourself to legal recourse.

March 1st, 2013 at 9:00 AM | Right, but this isn't a job interview. (Score:2)
lbpeley
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Let's all step back from ledge. This isn't a job interview. Oh sure, maybe de facto it is but by the letter of the law it most definitely is NOT.

March 1st, 2013 at 10:01 AM | I get what you are saying. BUT (Score:3 Normal)
Feat of Clay
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I think they could accomplish the same thing by asking something like "how do you feel about playing with [or rooming with] a teammate who has revealed himself to be gay?"  That is enough to find out which kids have a low sense of diplomacy about sensitive questions.  Your John Rockers will reveal themselves. 

 

Candace: No... That why they make smart word box for tell monkey hard brain-hurty things.
Phineas: Removing prepositions makes it more condescending.
February 28th, 2013 at 7:17 PM | I wish we were at a place in (Score:-1 Normal)
February 28th, 2013 at 7:24 PM | However odd it may seem... (Score:4 Normal)
Erik_in_Dayton
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You might well have a better claim for employment discrimination if that discrimination was based on marital status (as RakeFight noted) than if it was based on sexual orientation...though this is not legal advice. 

It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future. -- Yogi Berra

                         

February 28th, 2013 at 7:19 PM | Please explain how you would (Score:2)
denardogasm
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Please explain how you would argue that.

"Michigan Defense" is dominating everything, in every aspect of life. That's a rough definition.

-Craig Roh 10/29/2011

February 28th, 2013 at 7:25 PM | They would probably argue that people in relationships are in (Score:0 Flamebait)
February 28th, 2013 at 10:45 PM | Since 50% of marriages end in (Score:5 Normal)
MGoBender
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Since 50% of marriages end in divorce, I can easily argue that single people are in a more stable environment than married people (especially when you throw money in there).

CoE Class of 2007

February 28th, 2013 at 7:28 PM | Say a coach had a number of (Score:3 Normal)
JohnnyV123
Joined: 04/08/2011
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Say a coach had a number of good experiences drafting guys out of BYU (many of whom happen to be married when drafted) because they had a good work ethic.

Maybe they ask a guy if he goes to Church regularly because they have found in the past players who are dedicated to going to Church weekly are better leaders.

I would assume the worst but coaches can be weird. I mean this is still a process that has people drafted higher for running 0.05 second faster in a 40 yard dash and "measures" people on the Wonderlic test.

-Eternal guardian of the Prevent (you from winning) Defense

February 28th, 2013 at 8:16 PM | You continue to pull things (Score:5 Normal)
RedGreene
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You continue to pull things out of your ass and hope to find something that doesn't smell like shit.

Yes I got him a gift. He had a kidney stone. You piss a rock through your pecker, you deserve more than just a pat on the fucking back.

February 28th, 2013 at 9:44 PM | Your examples aren't (Score:3 Normal)
AnthonyThomas
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Your examples aren't instances of mutual exlcusiveness. Teams would need to prove that those players who went to church and were hard workers were hard workers because they all went to church. Assumptions don't hold up. 

March 1st, 2013 at 9:57 AM | I don't disagree with your statement... (Score:1)
Blue in Yarmouth
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but I think you are gving NFL coaches and GMs too much credit. I should state that I'm not lumping all into this group, but there are many NFL gm's that would pick a guy for far c=razier reasons than the above poster offers. I mean come on...Matt Millen anyone? 

Again, I think what you say is absolutely true, but I don't believe all GM's are as smart as you are and believe many of them make assumptions when choosing whether to draft players.

March 1st, 2013 at 12:15 PM | Maturity? (Score:3 Normal)
PM
Joined: 11/23/2008
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I have known many people who were not mature enough or secure enough as an individual to manage their life as a single person. In essence, they required a partner due to their own insecurity, so no, I don;t see single/married status as representative of maturity. Some guys may be mature enough to know they aren't ready to settle down... still have some wild oats to sew, and all that. The contrast is settling down too young, then cheating, etc. Now, having multiple kids out of wedlock may be a sign of immaturity, imo. Paying your bills on time and staying out of legal trouble provide much better indications of maturity in my mind.

This makes for entertaining discussion, however.

go blue

February 28th, 2013 at 7:17 PM | This is where I probably (Score:0 Normal)
February 28th, 2013 at 7:21 PM | This argument makes no sense. (Score:5 Normal)
bluebrains98
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This argument makes no sense. It would be one thing if the investment were somehow dependent on the person's response, but whether an actor or an athlete, sexual orientation, marital status or other personal details are completely inconsequential when it comes to their performance on the job. This is why it is illegal to ask those questions.

February 28th, 2013 at 7:28 PM | But they aren't (Score:2 Normal)
WolvinLA2
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But they aren't inconsequential.  Don't say the argument makes no sense just because you disagree (and I conceded that most here probably would).  What if a guy was an over racist?  Or a gambling addict?  I'm not comparing these to homosexuality, just that many things about who a person is can affect them as an employee. 

What if you knew that you star players were homophobic and would have a major problem with a gay player on your team?  I agree that the homophobic players would be in the wrong, but they are already on the team, under contract, and are the stars.  Wouldn't you, as a coach/GM/owner want to try your best not to draft someone who, for whatever reason, would cause a problem in your locker room, whether or not it was really their fault?

February 28th, 2013 at 7:31 PM | Your second paragraph (Score:5 Normal)
Erik_in_Dayton
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I'm sure that's what many would argue, and I do understand the logic in it.  What I ultimately think of, though, is the baseball players who wouldn't have been comfortable with Jackie Robinson on their team.  Someone needed to put Robinson's right to play above their comfort. 

It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future. -- Yogi Berra

                         

February 28th, 2013 at 7:56 PM | The race (Score:-1 Flamebait)
February 28th, 2013 at 7:56 PM | Please explain how (Score:5 Normal)
TheGhostofYost
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Please explain how homosexuality could be relevant to the profession.

February 28th, 2013 at 8:02 PM | I am (Score:0 Normal)
February 28th, 2013 at 8:06 PM | You said it wasn't apples to apples (Score:5 Normal)
M-Wolverine
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How could Jackie Robinson being black not be something that you could have made the exact same reply to back in the day?

"I love him, he's a great coach, he's a great mentor, he's a great friend. He's every single thing you want a college coach to be, and he does it flawlessly." -David Molk

February 28th, 2013 at 8:14 PM | For the record, I agree with (Score:2 Normal)
willywill9
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For the record, I agree with you 100%, but to make the case... you can hide being gay a lot easier than you can hide being black.  You don't have to ask Jackie Robinson is he's black.  In that sense it's not apples to apples.  If all of a sudden a player comes out, it creates controversy, and it could disrupt the locker room a couple of different ways.  And on the ideal team where your entire team could be okay with it, the media circus that would ensue could be an unwanted distraction.

Just some thoughts.

Touchdown Michigan!

February 28th, 2013 at 8:08 PM | The problem with this (Score:5 Normal)
TheGhostofYost
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The problem with this argument is that the only way it would impact the team is if people on the team have problems with homosexuality.  To cater to that kind of prejudice is not reasonable.

February 28th, 2013 at 7:57 PM | An interesting point... (Score:5 Normal)
Erik_in_Dayton
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It could certainly be a problem if an NFL player hit on one of his teammates, but that's no different than a situation in which a straight man hits on a female co-worker.  The problem is the act, not the orientation.

 

It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future. -- Yogi Berra

                         

February 28th, 2013 at 7:59 PM | Huh? What aspects to the functioning of a team? (Score:5 Normal)
M-Wolverine
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One irrational dislike is just like another. Robinson being black affected the functioning of a team filled with racists. Doesn't make it a good reason.

"I love him, he's a great coach, he's a great mentor, he's a great friend. He's every single thing you want a college coach to be, and he does it flawlessly." -David Molk

February 28th, 2013 at 8:08 PM | Seriously, (Score:5 Normal)
BiSB
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You know these "practical reasons why it could have a very real impact on team chemistry and the functionality of team roles" you mentioned? Those are some of the EXACT SAME REASONS PEOPLE GAVE TO KEEP BLACKS OUT OF BASEBALL. And to keep schools and the military segregated. Your argument boils down to the idea that some people are bigoted against a group, and therefore the solution is to keep that group out to the extent possible. And holy fuck does that piss me off. It's twenty-fucking-thirteen.

They no longer call me Bisbiño

February 28th, 2013 at 8:14 PM | If I weren't on an iPad I'd (Score:5 Normal)
swan flu
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If I weren't on an iPad I'd embed this gif http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/standing-ovation.gif

Tenim un nom el sap tothom. Barca, Barca, BAAARCA!

February 28th, 2013 at 8:15 PM | (No subject) (Score:5 Normal)
willywill9
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Touchdown Michigan!

March 1st, 2013 at 12:28 AM | BiSB you are correct but so is ijohnb (Score:2 Normal)
eury
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BiSB, your points are absolutely correct but I think you are misinterpreting ijohnb's point.

I think the statement is "I am not conding bigotry, I am merely acknowledging its existence and the reality that it would impact the dynamic of the team. It would likely cause a rift amongst the homophobics and the non-homophobics (which is exactly what happened with racist whites and non-racist whites during integration in baseball and the movie Remember the Titans starring Denzel Washington). This statement should not be interpreted as my opinion on whether gays should be in the NFL or out while in the NFL or anything of the like."

ijohnb even mentions that he is talking about reality, not necessarily the way things are:

"I am not talking what should be.  I am talking what is."

Just to put it out there, no, I have no dog in this fight (zing, but that's because niether one of you are making negative statements, unless I totally invented my own interpretation of ijohnb).

March 1st, 2013 at 9:36 AM | It's a tacit (Score:5 Normal)
goblue20111
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It's a tacit acceptance/codoning of bigotry when you're basically saying let's not rock the boat.

BTW, have you guys heard of this goddamn rabblerouser down in Alabama named Rosa Parks? Apparently she had the nerve to tell a hard working, WHITE, bus driver that she would not move to the back of the bus. Couldn't she have done what she was politely and kindly asked to do instead of causing such a fuss? Geeze. 

March 1st, 2013 at 12:41 PM | I agree but that's not the point..... (Score:2 Normal)
eury
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GoBlue,

I agree that saying "don't rock the boat" is condoning bigotry but that was not the point of my post at all and if your Rosa Parks joke is at my expense then you missed my entire point. 

There is a difference between making commentary on the current state of affairs and endorsing the status quo. My post makes no reference to reinforcing the current culture of bigotry in the NFL.

What my post is saying, is that because there is a culture of bigotry it would make sense that when gay players do start coming out, team chemistry may take a hit as the lockerrom could be split. 

Personally, I welcome the day where people don't have to put up a front because a portion of our population can't identify or understand their experience and has to resort to fear and hatred.

March 1st, 2013 at 12:27 PM | "I'm not condoning bigotry, (Score:3 Normal)
SituationSoap
Joined: 09/22/2012
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"I'm not condoning bigotry, I'm just recognizing and attempting to cater to it in the largest extent possible" is not a reasonable response.

 

I recognize that ijohnb isn't trying to enable bigotry, but the fact is that he is. Walls aren't broken down without shaking things up a bit, and that's going to upset some people, but that's their problem.

March 1st, 2013 at 9:32 AM | "Not because one is a trait (Score:5 Normal)
goblue20111
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"Not because one is a trait and the other is a choice"

I didn't think the people stupid enough to believe this discovered the internet yet.

February 28th, 2013 at 7:52 PM | Wrt your second (Score:5 Normal)
go16blue
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Wrt your second paragraph:

The same argument could be made for any workplace, though. Think about a restaurant, where everybody needs to be able to work well together to provide the best service. Or even an office complex, where if someone is disruptive and people dont get along as well productivity drops. If I run an Office Max and some of my workers are homophobic, is that a good enough reason to discriminate against hiring a gay worker? Because that argument could apply to any workplace with more than 1 worker. Fact is, the law is the law for a reason.

COYS and lets go Detroit FC!

February 28th, 2013 at 7:54 PM | Office max (Score:-1 Normal)
February 28th, 2013 at 8:34 PM | Inexact? Sure. (Score:5 Normal)
BiSB
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Pretty freeking close? You bet.

They no longer call me Bisbiño

February 28th, 2013 at 9:55 PM | Really? Showers? Just drive (Score:4 Normal)
AnthonyThomas
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Really? Showers? Just drive home and take a shower at your house if it matters to you.

March 1st, 2013 at 9:38 AM | Protip: not every gay dude (Score:5 Normal)
goblue20111
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Protip: not every gay dude wants to bang every guy they see. You're not going to suddenly look over and see the starting MLB with a boner in the shower. 

March 1st, 2013 at 2:10 PM | Yes (Score:2)
whitedawg
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That's an especially silly concern when you consider that any player that's going to be drafted has been in locker rooms and showering with other dudes for at least the last 4-8 years.  Whatever an individual player's feelings are, there is no way he hasn't learned to deal with them by now.  It's not like he's going to turn pro and discover some new creepy urges.

TL;DR: homophobes really haven't thought this one through.

February 28th, 2013 at 7:25 PM | Please tell me how a player's (Score:2 Normal)
russale2012
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Please tell me how a player's aunt's religion should have any bearing on whether or not that player can produce.

It's been a lot. Its been a roller coaster that for some reason seemed like it would never get good. But you know what? We kept fighting. It's like that old saying goes, "Those Who Stay Will Be Champions." -David Molk

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