I just read the part in Three and Out where JUB talks about how RR changed Carr's policy on players not attending classes during rivalry weeks (for those who haven't gotten to this part, Carr's policy was that players did NOT have to attend classes during a rivalry week, RR's policy was that the players DID have to attend classes). Has anybody heard what Hoke's policy is? I didn't know about Carr's or RR's policies until I just read that in the book, so I'm curious which way Hoke ruled on that one.
Players attending classes during rivalry weeks
It better be that players HAVE TO attend class.
That would include during rivalry week.
For what it's worth, I have a class with 7 football players and they all show up every day - including during ND and MSU weeks
They go to class.....if do did not, that could be "special treatment" for an Athlete....unless the Instructor allowed everone in class off during Big Games...
Hi Higbe, welcome to the MGoBlog board! I always enjoy your insight on Scout's!
here on MGoBlog? That would be wonderful.
Would love to have him here regularly, but its ok if he doesn't want to come during rivalry weeks.
Rivaly week is mainly an OSU week reference.
From the viewpoint of a former college football player and soon to be college professor: Attendance is optional. Then again, so are passing grades.
So much for the "student" in student athlete.
One of three tid-bits that changed my perspective of Coach Carr. Sad panda.
Fortunately for your faith in Carr, that was one of the parts of the book that was instantly marked as inaccurate by former players.
I'm not saying you're wrong at all, but do you know where you heard that? Was that firsthand or was there an article or something? I'd be interested in reading it if there is.
I apologize for my vagueness on the matter. I either read that on this website in one of the book summaries by 03 Blue 07 (I think that's the handle), or on the Amazon review, or on another Michigan website. I do recall at least 1 former player calling it ridiculous. I fear it's lost in the wash, sorry, but I do think taking that claim as gospel, at the least, is absurd and an affront to Carr.
I did think this was out of character for Carr, and to be clear I have a lot of respect for him. Just wondering if there had been some type of article from "Carr's people" (whatever that means) about inaccuracies in the book.
I have a friend that was in class with tom brady back in the day, he was always at class, don't believe everything you read.
So, what you are saying is that you didn't have a friend that was in class with Tom Brady back in the day and that he was not always necessarily class?
If his friend didn't have a class with Tom Brady, it is possible that aliens were attending the class. Neither Brady nor the posters friend has denied the existance of aliens in this alleged class.
Actually, that would explain a lot.
You would have to ask Kyle of the DeVry Institute. I'm not an expert like he is.
Carr told them not to go to class. I suspect that you have football players that go to class all the time just as in the student body and some who don't which also occurs in the student body.
And stuff like that and people wonder why Lloyd and Rich weren't buddies...
Howeva, why the heck would JUB fudge something like that? This has been re-hashed and re-hashed but what does he gain by documenting innacuracies about Carr and his beloved program?(other than $$$, which is powerful...but his integrity is more important....I would think....but then I thought JoePa had a ton of integrity before Monday)
I hear ya though, and I've tried to take that book with a grain of salt.
I have no idea why he would. Further, I don't think he in fact fudged it. I think he just took an anecdote and turned it into a fact which was later refuted by others. I don't think it's a big deal, and it's certainly nothing to drive a wedge between Michigan's prior two head coaches.
When I attended, I had quite a few athletes in my classes (Communications). The football players were always there and a couple even mentioned that they had to be there or they'd miss time in the games at Carr's insistence. Specifically, William Carr, Remy Hamilton, Mercurcy Hayes, Amani Toomer. The last two only missed one class, the Monday morning lecture after they were drafted (which was understandable).
The basketball players at that time were not so much into attendance. Louis Bullock and Travis Conlan were notorious for attending the first class, the midterm and the final. In fact, they both talked openly about having their girlfriends take notes for them each lecture at that first class. Those two young (fine) ladies were there every day, but those two were only there for exams.
Internally focused cool story, bro.
He showed up the first day, the midterm and the final...just like what you said about Conlan and Bullock...trust me I am sure of this, I never missed class and Maceo stood out in comparison to the average 5'8" student in that class.
Oh yay, that was the class that a nerdy kid tried to say a dragon was a phallic symbol and endlessly debated it in the small class breakout session...Maceo was not there to let us know what he thought of the dragon/penis analogy...strange days indeed
If Hoke's policy is anything but, 'go to class everyday', do you think he's going to tell anyone?
That is utter bunk. I attended the U from 97-01 and had a few football players in classes. They always came to class.
As an academic peer advisor for summer orientations, I know that football players' schedules were set up to not have classes on fridays in the fall term. This was because of the team travels on fridays for away games and has nothing to due with wanting to just give them fridays off.
Class attendance is overrated IMO. Regular students skip all the time. I don't mind if the players are skipping a class here and there. I did that while I was in school and I did fine (depending on the class of course). Now if they're skipping once a week, then it's a problem.
With that said, it's admirable if the coaches require attendance. It's always good to try and be beyond reproach.
<blockquote> Class attendance is overrated </blockquote>
I lecture at the college level currently and I take education very seriously. So I mean this from the deepest parts of my heart... You are wrong.
I appreciate where you're coming from but I think it's about how you learn and what kind of professor is doing the lecturing. There are some teachers I didn't get anything out of having them lecture.
We had this one lady for Witchcraft who basically used lectures to tell us why that week's readings were ALL TOTALLY BOGUS. This was all leading up to the last two weeks when we discussed her book and why it is totally superior.
However we had an excellent, utterly excellent GSI for that class discussion, plus just the right mix of pre-law history majors and pre-Burning Man women's studies majors for some good arguments. I went to lectures but spent them doodling and writing overly intellectual song lyrics. This is the class that caused an epiphany about biases and how they allow two people to construct two completely difference concepts of the world around them, whether it's two professors from different eras trying to apply the epiphanies of their times to making sense of the Salem Witch Trials, to what part of Danvers you lived in (the Salem Town, or by the road to Boston).
Some classes, if you just showed up and took decent notes, you almost didn't have to do the readings, because it was all covered. Others were just creating theories from the readings, and the class was only the professor's musings, which may or may not have been on the test.
I think we all skipped a class or two when bed was just that much more enticing. Regularly doing it, I can only think of one 8 am Friday discussion group where the TA was an idiot and it had no value whatsoever that more systematically missed it. So it's a case by case basis.
I was in a class with Mike Hart, Henne, and a few others (I think it was Sports and Daily Life in Ancient Rome with Potter). They came the first day and the next time I saw them was at the final. I think I heard that Potter was notoriously kind to athletes, although, I think he was just kind to everyone since his class was so easy.
and I'm pretty sure he rarely missed a class, or at least the section, if I remember. Probably all depends on the class.
Potter is the man. Had him for Roman Emperors in 2008 - easiest class ever. He got sidetracked about politics all the time and took every opportunity he could to promote Obama. It was really funny. Random, but he'd be the perfect Santa Clause.
Also I sat next to Ezeh during every class, he was a really cool guy. Carlos Brown would show up 2/3 of the time.
But I'm sure the coaching staff follows up on athlete attendance for discussion sections. I suspect - but I don't know for sure - that the athletic department has people who look for players in lectures.
I'm in a class with Jeremy Jackson, Will Campbell, and Michael Shaw. They are there in lecture EVERY day (including the Friday session), often very early. There's some academic advisor guy that checks to make sure that they are there every single lecture, too. So, I'm pretty sure that the coaches find class attendance pretty important (even big lectures).
I had a big lecture class in Fall '06 with about 30ish football players. Most of the starting secondary, a bunch of linemen, and a good chunk of the star WR's and RB's. Those guys never missed class, rivalry class or no. Even Adrian Arrington, who was having a decent bout of off-field issues at the time.
Now, they may not have been the most attentive students at times, and now and then they may have had a girlfriend sign them in at some of the evening film screenings (unless there were prominent linemen with incredibly girly, loopy handwriting). But they were there. Which was one of the reasons that little "policy" Bacon wrote about raised an eyebrow.
If John U. Bacon got this wrong, what else did he get wrong?
I do not care if players miss classes the week of the OSU game. If that is what it takes. I mean its been like 8 years or something.
I by no means had stellar attendence. So I would be a hypocrite to ask or expect much better from the players.
If they can balance school and football the other 11 weeks of the season, they can do it during OSU week.