cuz the NBA is a big fucking joke. I can only hope for failure.
The Pistons are a train wreck
"Look at me! I post in threads in which I hate the topic! Its cool to hate on the NBA!"
Get lost fucker. The NBA ratings were through the roof last year.
Lockout aside, the NBA is at its best level since the early 90s. So many awesome young stars to watch (DRose, Griffin, Durant, Westbrook, etc) while the old guard is still going strong (Duncan, Kobe, Garnett). Plus we finally have another villain team (the Heat) to root against.
Just like any other pro sport, the players can be overpaid babies. But the product on the court is amazing to watch.
witness all the upset fans during the strike, and then the sheer joy when the season was announced. /s
You are correct to criticize the guy posting on a thread he doesn't like, so I'm not criticizing you, but news flash: the NBA is really not that big a deal to most sports fans. There was more discussion in any one hour of the NFL lockout than a week of the NBA's.
Shut the fuck up and get the fuck out of this thread. You've added nothing to this discussion, except to troll those of us who care a great deal about the NBA.
If you read, you'll notice that I agreed with the poster in saying that people shouldn't complain about threads being posted, and took care to say so. Which is the opposite of trolling BTW. The guy said the NBA's ratings "were through the roof" last year, implying that the NBA is really popular and growing. I then expressed an opinion, an opinion which is pretty close to a fact actually, that there are only a few of you who "care a great deal about the NBA." Just because you don't agree with it is irrelevant. Other guys said the NBA is a joke and hope it fails, I did not. I'm just like a lot of sports fans who watch their team, but if the NBA started every year in January, wouldn't care a bit.
2004 was fun, but the NBA is my least favorite league in all of sports. Joe D has forced me to suspend my fanhood.
I think most Detroiters would agree when I saw that they are the least liked Detroit sports team. Not that people dislike them, just that everyone likes the Red Wings, Lions, and Tigers more.
At least in Detroit, but probably a lot of cities outside L.A. too.
K Thx Bye
As a die hard Bulls fan... Yes your roster is a complete mess. It looks like a kid went to the roster section on NBA2k12 and had a hey day. Makes little sense. Signing Tay made very little sense. Dumars has had a ton of misses since trading away Billups for an over the hill AI.
Prince shouldn't be taking minutes from younger guys, but they value his leadership apparently.
Stuckey is an odd fit with this roster, but he was also their best player last year.
Prince ( 4 years 27 mil) and Stuckey (3 years 25 mil) were signed to reasonable contracts that are tradable if Dumars wants to go in a different direction.
While the direction he seems to be taking the team seems questionable, re-signing these guys was the right move. Question is, will he make the subsequent correct moves of trading them when their peak is highest? They are unlikely to win a title without first bottoming out to get a star. Dumars hates that philosophy for some reason. He likes to rebuild with undervalued veterans. Understanding this philosophical constraint that Joe D has applied to his team construction process, we see that these moves fall in line.
His previous moves - (failing to trade Rip for value, billups for iverson, signing villanueva and gordon) - were bad. These moves are fine and don't kill their cap situation.
and he would not agree to the buyout and thus the trade was voided?
Why can't GMs just let guys walk? The Stones would have been far better served cleaning out the old guard and letting the younger guys establish themselves as leaders. Not re-signing Tay and Stuck would have allowed for more PT to evaluate some of the younger guys going forward. Is Daye worth signing long term? No IMO, but how can Joe make an accurate assessment when he's only logging 12minutes off the bench?
Has no one informed Joe D of the amnesty clause? He buys out Rip. OK. That makes sense if he subsequently amnesties one of the 78 horrible contracts we have. No? He's not going to amnesty anyone? He added three more bad contracts to the books? We're doomed.
IMO we should have let everyone walk, and signed enough guys to one year deals to reach the cap floor. Then you play the young guns, evaluate the pieces you have to see if they're worth moving forward with, and bottom out for a shot at a franchise guy in what will be a very deep draft.
Instead Dumars opted to put the Pistons in the worst possible place, the 7-12 range in the East. Not good enough to compete, not bad enough to land a franchise guy in the draft.
I think you are truly underestimating the horribleness of this roster. There is no legit scorer: Ben Gordon and Rodney Stuckey are not true scorers, they are at their best when they complement a true scorer. The low post defense is abysmal, and they have no depth. I guess I don't see the middling talent, I see one of the worst rosters in the league. I see three players worth keeping and that's it: Monroe, Jerebko (only as a backup PF) and Knight (and that's just because he's a top 10 pick).
Wow. I'm kind of struggling to respond. I feel like you missed every point I made.
The main one being this roster is terrible, blow it up, play the young guys to see if any of them are worth keeping and start over. I'm not sure how anyone could read all of my criticisms of Dumars, "We're doomed," let all of our free agents walk, bottom out and start over as, "Hey guy, things aren't that bad."
AFAIC, there is no one worth keeping on this roster outside of Monroe and Knight, but that's only because there really isn't enough data on those two guys for any conclusions to drawn about them.
And were in year three. You'd think new ownership would reinvigorate the franchise but it's stagnant. Greg Monroe and Brandon Knight are good pieces to start building but this lineup is a tire fire. Like you said there's no vision. How many combo guards and small forwards can one team have?
I think Greg Monroe is a nice role player and will prove to be in the future but I don't see him as a guy to build a team around. Knight we will see.
Yeah I definitely don't think he's a franchise center but based on what this team has, he's at least a piece. Nothing else on this team makes any sense at all.
While Monroe is not a franchise player, he is definitely more than a role player. He also was not corrupted by the mutiny and has a great attitude. I expect him to continue to improve and become a quality big.
With another solid big and a quality PG (maybe/hopefully Knight?) Monroe can become a very nice asset to this team. Not a focal point, but a very good player to play around a star.
Go in the bathroom and splash water on your face and then wipe with a towel. Repeat this loop until you remember that our beloved football team is prepping for the Sugar Bowl, the head coach just missed out on COY award, tsiO just got gut punched by the NCAA, and the Lions are on the verge of a playoff birth and sport one of the most talented teams in the NFL...........................oh, and it is almost Christmas Fergodsakes.
Just offering a suggestion.
Thanks for talking me off of the ledge.
To add, the Tigers just won the Central and made the ALCS and the Red Wings are a perennial power. We are very fortunate as a local fan base right now...
Greetings from Cleveland!
As a former Detroiter who (until the decision) was also a Cavs season ticket holder I can tell you that the Pistons are simply one of the 25 "Washington Generals" to quote our owner Dan Gilbert. The NBA is a star driven league and unfortunately for us....the stars ALL want to play in one of 4 cities and the rest of us can go to Hell.
I was hopeful the lockout would put some mechanisms in place to prevent this but sadly this did not happen. So prepare yourself for all the "stars" to end up in either Miami, New York, Chicago or Los Angeles while we fight over the scraps they don't want or can't sign.
Except Dallas won last year. And for like 4 years in the last decade the two best teams were Detroit and San Antonio. Look at OKC. It's possible to build a strong franchise in a small market with savvy management. Dan Gilbert is a terrible owner and I hope he never wins anything. Dumars seems to be a good talent scout with no big picture vision for this team and I don't see how it's going to get better soon so thats too bad. I'm still fine with the NBA.
And thank God Dallas did but would you like to take "the field" if I get the teams in those four cities for the next 5 NBA Championships? Lebron, Wade & Bosch have shown the rest of the players how to manipulate the system to play with their buddies in the cities they like. If you don't think that's the blueprint the rest will follow you are absolutely kidding yourself.
And what do you have against Gilbert? I absolutely loved his trashing LeBron and his comments to Stern that essentially blocked the Paul trade to the Lakers.
I don't know if I want to trash your owner that you like but since you asked...
Hes a spoiled child. He bought into the NBA at a high price (NBA teams were just like houses 5 years ago. Why not buy, the price keeps going up?!). He bought with full knowledge of how the system worked and then when the superstar that was already there left he threw a hissy fit. Lebron James doesn't owe Dan Gilbert anything. He should be allowed to do whatever he wants. This is America. The team is poorly managed. What good basketball moves have they made since he took over? When Lebron left, the franchise value tanked. Why? Because, he was the only worthwhile part of that team. Now Dan Gilbert is strong arming David Stern because he can't run his own business that he bought into with full knowledge.
LOL. sparty alum (Dan Gilbert) gets pissed cause Lebron leaves the "mistake by the lake," to go play hoops in south beach. hmm, play in cleveland or play in miami... geez george, what should i do? LOL.
Dallas has a superstar in Dirk.
Cuban is gunning hard for one of D-Will or D12. D-Will is a Dallas native to boot.
Oh boy, I LOL'd when you wrote "Dumars seems to be a good talent scout." He's awful, he was living off of one championship and a bunch of misses. He should have had multiple but he was too afraid to break this team up...then when they were clearly not good enough he held onto the pieces until they turned into worthless players. No one wants Tay anymore, nor Stuckey, nor Charlie V, nor Maxiell. They can't trade any of these pieces for anything anymore...and this team is circling the drain.
I cannot for the life of me understand why Joe didn't pull the trigger on the Josh Smith for Tayshaun and Maxiell trade that was offered. You had your ring and you had a chance to go grab a bonafide superstar and you pissed it away.
The whole era of the stars all playing on one team will not last especially with the cap. The Mavs won last year with Dirk and a bunch of good role players while the Heat had 3 of the top players in the league mixed in with 10 of the worst players in the league. It just doesn't work.
All you need is one star player and a bunch of above average role players and you can win championships. If you look at it the Pistons may seem like a wreck but they have the role players in place they just need that one player to put them over the top like a Andre Drummond would do if he were drafted.
If the lineup in the near future is PG Knight SG Stuckey SF Prince PF Monroe C Drummond/Sullinger we could potentially be a really solid team and compete with the so called "best" teams in the league because of there lack of depth in key places like the Heat at Center and PG, the Clippers without a true SG or PF/C, and the Knicks with PG, SG, and Center.
Okay smart guy, riddle me this: we cut maxiell, stuckey, Gordon, prince, Villanueva, and Wallace. How do we then play a season with 7 players?
We can't cut all of those players. I don't mind Gordon at all, I think he can be a very nice player off the bench. Ben Wallace isn't a problem, he's making minimal money, and he has one year left on his contract. Players like Wallace, aren't going to be considered a deterrent. Maxiel is probably a player that you could stomach keeping until his contract is up. But Villanueva, Villanueva is a special kind of failure. He plays a lot of minutes, and contributes little compared to his contract, and is awful in the locker room. He would have been my first amnesty buy out, and I'd have been happy to write him the check.
If we can trade any veteran assets for picks do it. Sign short term contracts to get to the salary floor, bank the luxury tax share and win 5 games this year. Get a top 3 draft pick in a high quality draft and draft a franchise big man. With a short season it's the best time to tank because theres less lost revenue from empty arenas. Build around that pick, Brandon Knight and use the salary flexibility you've created to sign a big free agent in a couple of years. That's how you build a basketball team. Short term pain for long term gain.
No one wants to come to Detroit unless the Pistons greatly overpay. That's why we end up with players like Charlie V and Gordon.
I think you're pretty off base after this year. BTW who cares? This was never expected to be a good year.
This team has a decent and young core in Knight/Daye/Jonas/Monroe. I think all these guys can play and the extra 'combos' potentially add depth and trade value.
I didn't love the Tay contract, but the Stuckey signing makes some sense. Give it another year and see how it turns out. There was so much sucess that it makes this lull inconceivable, but it could be fun to see this team develop.
Who said anything about our progress this year? I simply stated we have no direction for this team or franchise. Also, when did I say anything negative about Daye, Knight, Jonas, and Monroe?
In a lockout shortened season the team can develop those guys, get a good draft pick and make a move next off-season.
You're writing checks your ass couldn't cash.
E-pinion: You don't care about direction and want something to bitch about while upvoting your own posts.
I don't give a fuck about up voting or down voting anything. I'm not sure you quite understand NBA economics. What move will they make next year? Dumars moves have been panned league wide, because Dumars has locked us into contracts that will keep us in our current state for 4-5 years. The only time those players/contracts would get you anything valuable, is if they were expiring. Translation? You need to read the new CBA.
E-Opinion: You enjoy talking out of your ass.
You clearly do give a 'what' because you bothered to click the button.
Why are you reacting like this?
As to an earlier point, you stated that you never said anything negative about the guys I mentioned, but listed:
-Jonas Jerebko resigned for 4 years
-Richard Hamilton bought out
-Brandon Knight drafted
Damn. There's 2/4 + Hamilton who needed to go. I don't want to debate this anymore.
re-read the first sentence after he listed those things.. he said that he LOVED the Knight pick, and liked the Jerebko signing.
but...you have to have someone for the fans to come out and watch
the pistons stink on ice, but at least fans can root for Tay like they have for 10 years
you need someone to draw people to the palace, tom gores wants at least 5k in his new arena
(did you see the exhibition game? there were maybe 3k people... maybe)
The worst place to be in the NBA is in the middle. If you're not a contender you need to bottom out and try to get a superstar in the draft (especially in an unsexy city like Detroit). See Oklahoma City
he is just not that good, at least as a point guard. Prince's contract is for four years I read, and he is not overpaid for what he can contribute. They do have a lot of 2-3-4 players, hopefully Knight at point guard makes them better than Stuckey did.
Joe D says the Pistons are in need of another Big since Wilcox got picked up and he wants one soon. Kyrylo Fysenko looks to be the best UFA bench Center available. Plays about 10+ minutes , averages 3-4 rebounds, 5-6 points and 1 block a game. Pistons have more than $5m cap exemption to play with and would have the most young talent in the league to trade with if they get him. G Brandon Knight, G/F Austin Daye, F Jonas Jerebko, F Kyle Singler, F/C Vernon Macklin, F/C Greg Monroe, and C Kyrylo Fysenko would give Detroit a great foundation for the future, or great bargaining power in trade.
Note: Singer is playing in Spain at the moment. Surprising for a rookie to make the move to Europe when so many veterans just stayed home during the lockout. his first game he earned man of the match honors with 23 points, 4 rebounds and 3 assists. He decided to stay in Spain and play for Real after the lockout ended because he'll make more money than a second round drafted rookie and will return to Detroit for next season.
I dont think I will watch 1 game this year. NBA is a joke and I wish it was still locked out.
Why does the existence of something that brings other people enjoyment bother you? Noone is making you watch the NBA.
Who is Noone and why is he making us watch?
I'll watch the Pistons this year, but it will be through the gaps in my fingers as they cover my field of vision. This may not end well, this season. I am not sure what Joe Dumars is doing honestly - I hope there is some kind of long-term goal in mind, of course.
The economy is a mess, Hollywood has run out of decent movie ideas, and thousands of years with a pronounced lack of natural selection has likely doomed our species to eventual extinction.
That being said, I have faith in the pistons that they might just be bad enough to land a decent draft pick anyway. Yeah, I'm an optimist.
Hollywood is bullshit. I wish the actors were locked out. Only idiots watch movies. Smart people like me go to plays because we're superior.
Monroe, Knight, and Jerebko are good pieces. Maxiell is good off the bench and Daye has some potential to be another Tayshaun.
But other than that, just trade them away for players with expiring contracts and draft picks. The roster is just goofy and I have no idea what direction we're going.
See, I don't think the Stuckey signing was that bad - he's a reasonable price for a young player who has proven to be a good NBA player. Jonas coming back should help, and yeah Maxiell and CV are nothing great, but I'd rather hang onto the amnesty for a year and use it for a full-season player next year. This shortened season is going to be weird, but this is still a team with some continuity and a new coach who needs players. And while this draft looks good, I'm not sure that bottoming out would net them a truly great prospect - it feels like a draft full of 2-time All Stars, not some transcendent player (though I'll admit to not being super-knowledgeable about some of the projected high draft picks).
I don't think Dumars has been great at GM for a couple of years, but who around the
NBA other than Presti, Forman, and (maybe) Riley has been any good at really accumulating talent? It tends to be draft picks plus some luck, and maybe Joe D has been on a dry spell for a bit. But I still think he is a better GM than a bunch of other teams, and I expect this team to turn it around quicker than some expect.
I have to get this off my chest responding to someone actually saying they like how Dan Gilbert trashed Lebron. When the owner, after "the decision", comes out and talks about trying harder to win a championship because Lebron leaves means one thing to me. He obviously didn't try as hard as he could when Lebron was there. I didn't like how things went down, but when Gilbert admitted he didn't try as hard as he possibly could when Lebron was on the team, Lebron was completely off the hook. Gilbert is an idiot. How did the same team minus one player do last year?
There are two sides of Dan Gilbert IMO. 1) The guy who is trying to reinvigorate Detroit. If you're from Michigan, or just care about our state and our city of Detroit, you've got to respect what Gilbert is doing. I know I do. And then there's... 2) The douchebag Cav's owner. He's not a douchebag because he owns the Cavs, he's a douchebag for all of the reasons listed above. He's an awful owner and shouldn't ever have become an owner. I hated hearing the 'small town' owners bitch during the lockout because they were at a disadvantage. You bought the team knowing your team would be in Cleveland or New Orleans or wherever. If you don't understand the economics of the NBA and/or don't have enough money to finance a succesful team, then don't become an owner. Oh, and don't bitch about your star player leaving, hey Lebron, when he singlehandedly raised the value of your franchise exponentially higher than it had ever been before and actually had people from all over the world watching a Cav's game.
But then again, there are 2 sides to Dan Gilbert...
I really didn't want to post again on this thread but that second to last point is the one that really baffles me whenever I think about these owners. They're not stupid. They're all savvy businessmen. Seriously, it can't be easy to make a billion dollars. Then, they make a terrible investment (no money manager would recommend investing in the NBA) that is a total arrogance move. Who doesn't want to own a sports franchise? Look at Cuban, he wins the trophy. He can put that on his shelf and party with the players and act like one of the cool kids.
But the other side is the Dan Gilberts of the league. He wants to be Cuban but he can't put together a winner and so he claims the system is unfair and he should be able to make a profit even though thats never what it was about. Sell the team then. There's only thirty of them and there are other billionaires that would love to be part of the club.
But most of them made their money elsewhere, not in pro sports. Guys who assemble a winning team and know what to do in one area of business can easily get lost in others. Happens all the time, ever heard of New Coke?
I think you're referring to Cherry Coke.
Spot on assessment about Gilbert. But to be honest they really lost 2/3 of the roster and their coach. That team was a revolving door for the last 2 years. Ilgauskas was their starting Center and went to Miami and Varejao went down with an injury for most of last season, then Shaq left for Boston. Plus Delonte West (a key Guard for them, started the 09 season) left the same year as Lebron. Guard Mo Williams left that year for Toronto too, came back right at the end of the season. Guards Coby Carl, Cedrick Jackson, and Sebastien Telfair left, pretty much for retirement. Forwards Jamario Moon, Darnell Jackson, and Leon Powe stopped in Cleveland for maybe half the season before moving on, and Forwards Danny Green and Jawad Williams were just cut. Only players still with the team from Lebrons last season in Cleveland are Danny Gibson, JJ Hickson, Anderson Varejao, Mo Williams, and Antawn Jamison and Jamison was really only thrown in at the last minute before the decision. Plus last year was the first year under a new head coach.
Good assessment of the current state of the Cavs and why last year tanked so badly but I do feel the need to point a few things to the Gilbert-bashers:
1. His issue, and that of virtually all small market owners, is that the players have taken control of the league and basketball is dangerously close to becoming baseball where only a few teams can compete each year due to the disparity in talent distribution. Is that what people want? I would think everyone of the 25 small market teams would support his efforts to try and get parity back in place on some level.
2. If you side with Lebron please take a moment and read the new book "The Whore of Akron". Not only is it funny as Hell it also points out pretty clearly what life with Lebron was like around here. Yes he has a right to go anywhere he wants. And yes we have a right to hate him when he does so in a manner to inflict the maximum damage on a franchise (announce last day of free agent signing) and does it in a manner designed to humiliate an entire city on national TV. Fuck him.
3. Gilbert was willing and eager to surround Lebron with whatever players he wanted to have here. Unfortunately for us, he refused to tell anybody who he wanted and did nothing to help "recruit" free agents here as he has so aggressively done in Miami.
4. The Cavs practice facilities are second to none and where actually built to be close to Lebron's 40,000 square foot palace. Gilbert spares no expense when it comes to the team but that doesnt really matter cause there's no real nightlife here and it snows a lot.
Like it or not guys Cleveland =Detroit when it comes to the current state of the NBA. Both are unattractive, rust-belt cities with little or no "cool factor" when it comes to free agent movement. I LOVE the NBA and was a die-hard Pistons fan and Cavs season ticket holder but I hate seeing what I think the NBA is morphing into......Baseball 2.0.
Mo Williams is no longer with the team. They traded him for Baron Davis and IIRC the Clips first round pick. They've already amnestied BD and he is now a member of the Knicks.
JJ Hickson is on the Kings now.
I really need to know what getsomepistons.com has to say about this
It seems to me that a team can do fine in the NBA given one or two "superstars" and a solid rotation of role players going 8 deep. The problem with the Pistons is that it's all role players. No true point since Chauncey left, no go-to big since Sheed let himself go. Not that those guys were superstars necessarily, but they elevated a good team to a great status. Then for the past few years, I just keep thinking "STOP DRAFTING 2-GUARDS" and "NO MORE BIG WHITE DUDES" and I also have no idea where the team is headed. Dumars used to be a risk taker, and everything worked out for him. Now he's "just a guy" who's making the wrong reads, and the team has no identity. I'd love to see him turn it back around - remember when Lindsey Hunter and Mike James were good for 2 or 3 late-game steals in the full press? Then they'd hand it back to the starters. The Pistons need starters. A solid pass-first point guard and a big dude who can score 15+ a night shouldn't be too much to ask. There's my rant.
Patrick Ewing should sign with the pistons.
that there is a thread about the pissed-ons?
what about the winter meetings for baseball. alberquerque is out till all-star break because he surgery on his elbow.
the wings are playing like the wings, again.
It's the start of the NBA season bro. It's midway through the NHL season and outside of a 5 game stretch the Wings have been great this season. Just look at the stats for the Wings vs. Chicago and you'll see who the best team in the Central is. No one is going to talk about baseball in December. Don't read the thread if you don't like it.
pro tip: don't say "pissed-ons"
The pistons have been a train wreck for at least the last 3 years. Pretty much since Joe traded Chauncey and resigned Rip in the same day they were toast. That is not a plan, that is schizophrenia.
They need more guards.
To be honest I think signing Stuckey to that 3 year deal is one of the better moves Dumars has made this off-season. That contract isn't all that expensive for a contending team willing to part ways with a draft pick or a young player. This wasn't like trying to trade RIP and his awful deal the last 2 years.
I think Monroe, Knight, and Jonas are solid pieces to build around, but I think they need another Big that can provide Monroe with help down low. Just my 2 cents but I really like Frank at the helm of this team, he provides much needed discipline and defense, should be an interesting season regardless.
But they're our train wreck. Go Pistons!
No playoffs this year,but the team should be better than last year ...
The team is just garbage and needs to be moved. If you think otherwise go and buy a ticket and watch that trash for yourself in person.
MOVED?!?? You are out of your mind. New GM? Maybe. MOVED? That is insane. We sold that place out for like 10 years strait.
It's almost as if Dumars is telling the fans "we're gunning for that position just outside of the playoffs, but just good enough to not add a quality piece in the draft".
So youre saying they are going to do the very best they can with the very best they can get? Hmmmm yes that is troubling...
Just one more reason why the NBA is terrible. The incentives to do as bad as you can in a particular year are worth more than the incentives to well in every year that you can.
I'm not sure that they won't make the playoffs...
I do agree, however, that as far as immediate returns go, you want to finish as a top 4 seed (aka not first-round fodder for a higher-ranked team) or a bottom 4 team (for the best chances of acquiring a top draft pick.)
My solution would be have the entire draft lottery determined by ping pong balls, not just the top 3 draft slots. This way the best team in lottery wouldn't just look at the picks 1, 2, 3, or 14, but rather every pick would be available to them.
Maybe Dumars is thinking to deal Prince during the season or at the trade deadline for more.
Again, I downvoted you for upvoting your own thread. And I also think you're feeding the trolls who hate on the *OT NBA* by posting so frequently about the league.
I could justify all of those listed moves (even not amnestying Maxiell, who I've been disgusted with for a while now) in isolation, but taken collectively I understand why it appears there is no direction for the team and that we have a random assembly of talent.
I am most certainly NOT a Joe apologist, but my response would be that he's keeping a few vets around to bridge the gap while the youth on this roster grows.
This is a young team.
PG Knight is 20. FC Monroe is 21. GF Daye is 23. F Jerebko is 24. G Stuckey is 25. F Villanueva is 27. PG Bynum is 28. G Gordon is 28.
Tayshaun Prince is a healthy, versatile 31. You won't find many teams in the NBA without at least one starter in their 30s.
That under-28 eight man rotation alone could make the playoffs this season if coached properly. Remember that Kuester was an absolute buffoon and that Curry was a complete tool of a coach Monroe couldn't get in the game to start last season, Daye was played at PF, Jerebko was injured, Stuckey was forcing things at PG, Villanueva was allowed to chuck threes and shun rebounds, Gordon was yanked around and not given shots. Things could be different this season.
The Pistons will be fine. I'm at my list bits of patience regarding Joe Dumars, but this roster isn't as messed up as it looks.
Joe D.'s initial run of success came with Stackhouse, Cliff Robinson, Big Ben, Jon Barry, and Corliss Williamson. None of those guys was real exciting when we picked him up. Yeah, he made a big mistake by forking over a bunch of cash to Gordon and Charlie V., but I don't think Joe lacks an eye for talent. Being an NBA GM requires a lot of luck (see Danny Ainge), and finding that useful core of guys can be a crap shoot. I see Joe has having built two good teams (the initial run with Uncle Cliffy and Stack and the championship run with Rip, Chauncey and co.) and one bad one (Charlie V. and Ben Gordon). I'm not totally demoralized just yet.
But if we go 30-52 this year, I'm going to start to worry.
I would also worry if they went 30-52 this year, considering they are playing a 66 game schedule
I'm not a huge basketball fan to start with. I'm sonic appreciative: the crack of football pads against each other, or the sound maplewood makes when it strikes leather covering wound cork. The echoes of skates and playcalls and hits bouncing off ice and plexiglass and boards (or even better, floating into wintry night air!!!).
Close your eyes and listen to basketball and what is it? Grunts. Sneakers squeaking.
Meanwhile the crowd noise in basketball is too flowing. It builds on itself: Ah. AH. AHH. AHHH. AHHH..Oooh. ... ... ... Oh! ... ... Oh! Ah!. AH. AHH. AHHH. etc.
Contrast with football crowd noise: eeeeeeeuuuuuuuAAHHHHHHH!HHHH!H!!!! Or hockey crowd noise: ooooh, ooohh, oooohhhhhAAAAAAOohhhhh.
But I don't hate basketball. I just need to really like the team to watch it. I loved the Bad Boys as a kid--they were briefly my top thing until I saw a thing called Desmond Howard. And the same time those guys were operating was when Michigan had the '89 run, and then it was the Fab Five. Those were some teams, man.
When the Pistons are in a playoff run (who cares about the regular season unless you've got free tickets?) I get into it because there's so few players you end up knowing each of the starters like you know your quarterback. So it's a personality-based fandom, and when I can't get behind the personalities there's not much to root for.
There's no personality -- except for being whiners -- in the Pistons anymore. However the Michigan Basketball team is filled with it. I had to come to Michigan basketball late because I got to M in '98 and I couldn't root for Ellerbe or most of his guys, and then there was no reason to bore yourself to death with the "let's throw the ball around the perimeter a lot" games of the Amaker era when there was Chauncey and Big Ben and Rip and Sheed and Tayshaun
. Beilein, however? Novak? Burke and Hardaway and Horford and Morgan and Smotrycz and Douglass...they're a hell of a team to root for. They do things when you watch them that become great storylines.
They are why I have put my Pistons fandom into virtual hibernation. I don't even know the salary cap situation they're in anymore, and I used to always know the roster situation of any of my teams. I blame Michigan hoops; my basketball fandom is tied up into the guys, not the brand. There's nothing about Villanueva or Gordon that makes you want to particularly root for them. But you can't watch three Hardaway games without developing a mancrush. Or meet Bacari once. Forget the Pistons -- we've got Wolverines.
Funny. I've always thought of the NBA and basketball players as having the most personality of any of the major professional sports.
Let's put it this way: I've never heard an NFL, MLB, or NHL team's playoff hopes jeopardised because one player's chauffeur filled another player's Escalade with popcorn.
I also don't know of another sport where a team's owner sits in the front row and openly heckles players (Donald Sterling of the Clippers).
Not to mention angry letters written in comic sans, James Dolan, Mark Cuban, and Orlando's CEO was just fired last week for drunk dialing Dwight Howard at one in the morning and begging him to stay. Only in the NBA does that happen.
I'm not a die-hard NBA fan although I like to know what's going on with the Stones so thank you for the thread. That being said, I had downvote you for upvoting your own thread..it's an immune response.
Invoke an old, well-known concept of achieving victory; The Team, The Team, The Team. In basketball a team consists of 12 to 15 players, only 5 of which play at the same time. In the business world a modern concept of group dynamics says that when you change one member of the team, you change all the relationships between all the team members. Obviously the relationship to the new member changes the group dynamics. However, changing one member of a team also changes the relationship of each of the remaining team members to each other.
Let's say you have a team of 5 members. If you change member number No. 5 and keep the remaining members on the team, that changes not only the relationship the 4 remaining team members have with team member 5 (position number 5 ), but changing player No. 5 changes the relationship between players No. 1 and No. 2, the relationship between players 3 and 1, the relationship between players 2 and 4, all up and down the line. Having really cohesive teamwork becomes more problematical.
Jumping to the basketball endgame; when you substitute, you have a different team on the floor and different relationships among all 5 players on the floor. Each time you substitute multiple players, with different combinations, you have a different team. The typical basketball team has many different teams on the floor during a game.
Teamwork wins, however. If you have 5 players who stay together, work together, workout together, practice together, they become a better team. AND you don't necessarily need a star player to make it work.
Two annecdotal examples: The Piston had 4 players in the NBA all star game a few years back. None of them were starters, as I recall; and there was some speculation that they would be substituted in together. Charles Barkley, among others, opined that they would get killed, presumably because they had no star(power) among them. What happened. When they (4 Pistons and one other player) went into the game together, they built what I recall was a small lead into what I recall was a 20 point lead, to the dismay of Mr. Barkley. Why? I hypothesize it was because, unlike any other all star team. they had worked together, worked out together, practiced together, knew one another very well, and were extra "accountable" to one another.
Second anecdotal example: Winter olympics a few years ago. The Swedish hockey team won the gold medal. Why? Six or seven of those players were all members of the same NHL team, the Red Wings. They worked out together, practiced . . . . . You get the picture. They were a team, much moreso than any other national team in the olympics.
The only way the Pistons can win in the current situation, no star(s), good role players, is if every group of 5 players they put on the floor is as much of a team as can be constructed. I would like to seem them use team substitution. Contruct two 5-man teams and play them consistently, play them together, practice against one another, hold them accountable to one another, keep the units together as much as injuries will allow, major playing time minutes for both groups. I think it may be the only way for them to succeed this year.
They will position themselves for trades