Multiple outlets reporting sign-and-trade with the Bucks for Jennings, with his contract being 3 yrs $24 million. No word on what the Pistons are giving up. I'm not a fan of this move.EDIT: sending Knight, Middleton, and Kratsov. link:http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nba--pistons-to-acquire-brandon-jennings-in-sign-and-trade-deal-211830240.html
Pistons to acquire Brandon Jennings
If you're giving up Knight why not get Rondo?
Because they were never going to get Rondo for Knight.
or cause Danby ainge said no trade for Rondo at this time . Word around the league is Rondo will not be available till the trade deadline which would push the cost of him to go way up
Shrewd, but, man, do I feel bad for Rondo going into this season.
I heard Boston may literally be planning to tank because there is a Lebron-esque kid coming available for the draft next year and they want number 1. Anybody know who this guy is?
I know people love the idea of Rondo, but he's recovering from a pretty nasty injury that might alter his game. Also, and I know people love to gloss over this, but he played with between 2 and 3 HOF players for most of his "peak". And even with that, the offense usually struggled somewhat in scoring points. He's a good PG, but let's see him do ANYTHING without Garnett, Pierce, and Allen before we all bow down to the Rondo throne.
Now that I think about it the floor might already be clogged with J Smith at the 3 so adding Rondos broke jump shot might now be the best move. Jennings will stretch the floor better than Rondo
Not be the best move**
Think bigger. If we are giving up Knight, why not go for LeBron?!
If they wanted a PG...
WTF DIDN'T THEY PICK UP TREY BURKE????
Ugh, my head hurts.
Then my second thought was at least Jennings is still young and has shown flashes of ability at the NBA level already. That's just me trying to rationalize the perceived lack of competence this front office has shown lately in my humble opinion. Still feels like a borderline playoff team at best.
As much as I love Trey, I'm not sure he'll ever be as productive as Jennings is right now. Meanwhile, they added a shooter on the wing with the draft pick and now have upgraded PG for relatively little money. Even granting that the Smith deal might end up being awful, I think the front office could have done much worse this offseason.
I have one question. Do you think Jennings will help sell as many tickets in the state of Michigan as would have the drafting of our beloved Trey?
Trey would have provided a short term boost, but if the Pistons didn't start winning, it wouldn't be sustainable. If Jennings helps turn this Pistons team into a playoff team, which I think is quite possible, maybe even probable given the state of the East, he'll have helped sell more tickets.
But I never bought tix to watch Chauncey play but definitely would have to see Trey. Maybe I represent a small minority due to my Go Blue obsession.
Well, they drafted Mateen Cleaves some time ago and the team still stunk and nobody came to see them. Winning gets people in the doors, and even if Burke gave them a quick injection of fans early on, I don't see him leading this team to the playoffs as a rookie.
Because right now Brandon Jennings is a WAY better NBA player than Trey? I love Burke as a college player, but he has shown nothing in the NBA, obviously. Maybe he'll be a great, maybe he'll be the mess he was in the preseason, who knows. But when you can get a player like Jennings for not that much (I've never been high on Knight), you have to do it.
The fact that they made this move makes it ok that they didn't draft Trey. At least Joe is acknowledging that we didn't have a PG up until today. And that we didn't have a 2 up until draft day either.
We will actually be a competitive team in the East this year with the moves We made this offseason. I have to admit I was wrong about Joe and jumped the gun a bit in being critical of him after not drafting Trey.
at least you can admit you jumped the gun, most people around here are going to bitch abour trey from now till he is out of the league...
Yes, I will.
Obviously I would have loved for them to get Burke, but by all accounts KCP looked VERY impressive in the summer league and they need guys who can shoot, run, and play defense. KCP might very well have been the better choice for the Pistons this year.
He takes A LOT of shots but he's an upgrade that's for sure. Although I didn't/don't want to give up on Knight so quickly, i don't hate this move. Must have been asking to much for Rondo so they made their move. What a vastly different roster from one year to the next.
I like the move. Not a bad player at all for the money he is getting. And who knows, getting out of Milwaukee could be just what he needs to continue developing into a top 10 point guard.
Doesn't seem like we're giving up a whole lot, and at 3 years/24 mil, it's not a huge cap hit. I am not sold on Brandon Knight's potential, which to me isn't any higher than what Brandon Jennings is right now.
Joe D is putting a LOT of faith in KCP and Datome to open things up on the perimeter. It would be nice to see some development out of Singler, too. Otherwise, it's going to be tough sledding because as as been discussed before, none of our three big men can shoot and Jennings certainly isn't going to clear out that space with his presence alone.
I think a lot of people forget that we still have Stuckey. Stuckey will never live up to his potential but he is a good 3rd option at guard with Billups/Jennings/KCP in there as well. I didn't include Datome because I have no idea what to expect from him. If I had to guess, he will fill the old Jon Barry role: Come in and immediately do a heat check. If he hits a couple, you leave him in there, if not...sit him down quickly before he kills you defensively.
Personally, I think Jennings is significantly better than Knight. Knight has better range in theory, but he's had a couple of years to figure out the rest of his game and all I've seen is regression.
Remeber a few years ago signing Gordon and Villanueva? That really panned out and this off season is eerily similar by signing Smith and getting Jennings? Really? Come on Dumars.
Just because that didn't work out doesn't mean this won't. I feel better about this year with both Monroe and Drummond and think KCP could turn into a solid starter.
Jennings is awful. He's a shot chucker/ball hog. There's a reason he sat around for this long as a FA.
And Brandon Knight is immensely better? It's $8 mil/yr for 3 years. This is a good deal.
While Jennings does have poor shot selection (shot 39% from the field), he also averaged 6.5 assists, which was 2.5 more than Brandon Knight. Also, Jennings will have more weapons in Detroit than he did with the Bucks.
This is exactly the point that nobody seems to grasp, and it's kind of surprising to see it from readers of this efficiency-obsessed blog. All points are not equal. Brandon Jennings is a good player and an effective scorer if you ignore all statistics that reflect efficiency. Was Brandon Knight going to be a star? No. Will this move make the Pistons a contender? No. I'd stick with the worse roster and wait a year before committing even that much more cash over the next few years.
They don't seem similar at all. Jennings for 8 mil for 3 seasons is a small risk and a movable contract if he doesn't work out. Same with Smith's. and while both are limited players IMO, they fill roles and will be productive. BG was an undersized SH getting starters money to come off the bench. CV was just a terrible player. Those were signings just for the sake of signing players. Smith and Jennings - far from it.
I heard it's for Brandon Knight. Regardless, I don't like Jennings coming here. I don't know that he will be an unselfish PG. If he plays PG the right way and not be a ball-hog, it might be fine. If he plays like he is known for, it won't work.
I suppose you could do worse for $8M/year. How much did Charlie V. get a few years ago? Ben Gordon?
Charlie V got 5 years at $8 million/year and Ben Gordon got 5 years at $11 million/year. This is around the same as Stuckey's contract from 2 years ago.
This guy averages close to 18 & 7 game, far from a bad move. Only time will tell if the team will be successful, but from the looks of it they look a lot better.
He's an upgrade over Knight, that's for sure. We needed a starting point guard and that's what we got with him. Stop with the comparisons to Villanueva and Gordon...Knight is younger and cheaper than Gordon. Smith is younger and better than villanueva
BJ scoring 45 points in a half & he is the youngest player to ever tally 50+ in a nba game
making slightly less than 4 out of every 10 shots he takes!
Some people on this site really annoy me with their NBA "analyisis." Getting Jennings is far from a dumb move, as the Pistons get a point guard who's actually, well, played point guard in the NBA at a high level.
I get it - you wanted Joe Dumars to draft Trey Burke. He didn't, and now my gawd he's finding an option in FA. Joe Dumars and Trey Burke can both be good at their jobs independently of each other, which is a fact that some posters continue to deny.
This is a good move. The fact that some of you are so against is ridiculous. I can see being meh about it, but in no way is this a bad move. You ask him to cut some of the shots, look for him to provide 15 and 7 a game, and you're starting to build something.
But in all honesty, there isn't a good way to get to that besides tanking, which I really don't want the Pistons to do. Some teams can build through free agency, but the top players aren't coming to Detroit over other cities. In this age of the NBA, I think the Pistons are either stuck being competitive enough to make the playoffs or they have to strike magic in a bottle like they did in the 2000s. They can at least try to be competitive while trying to strike magic again rather than tanking and hoping for magic to come that way. I'd honestly prefer they just be at least competitive rather than tanking or just not being good.
But being competitive with no chance of a championship does nothing except sell a few more tickets. The point is to try and win championships. None of the rest matters. You should have wanted them to tank. But we're way beyond that point so....
We've been over this before. Tanking is not a more effective road to building a successful team than what the Pistons have been doing, and it also cheats your fans by purposely putting an inferior product on the floor for a couple of years on the off chance you land a LeBron type of player, and even then landing LeBron netted Cleveland exactly 0 championships.
The Cavs are not ahead of the Pistons is any area other than the dreams of sports writers chomping at the bit to declare Kyrie Irving the next big thing. As great as he is, he showed no real improvement from year 1 to year 2 (look it up), and he still doesn't play any defense. He also needs to prove he can go through a full season with missing a large chunk due to injury.
Speaking of injuries, they are an injury plagued team whose two biggest moves were bringing in a guy with a bum knee that has been described as rapidly detiorating, and a huge reach with the number one pick for a guy with no real position coming off shoulder surgery.
As completely lost and dysfunctional as the Pistons have been the last 2 seasons, they have had a better record than the Cavs, and they had a better off-season as well.
If you can show me evidence where tanking has produced championships at a level that was more effective than building a team through the draft, trades and free agency, I'd love to see it.
Besides, the Pistons already have a talent like Drummond, who in hindsight is the sort of guy teams tank for. Monroe is a borderline level all star talent, and so is JSmoove.
As Andrew Sharp pointed out in a Grantland article today, if it were Daryl Morey making these moves, people would be applauding and marveling at his ability to stockpile assets at a fair market price to build toward the future, but since it's Joe Dumars the narrative is "LOL Pistons."
the Pacers. Long and athletic team who will try to live off on defense. Hope they get lucky in the draft (Happened with Moose and Drummond) and find the right player to trade/sign.
Huh? Not sure why everyone hates this deal so much. Move away from the "why not just draft Burke" mentality (they didn't, so that has no impact on this deal) and consider the fact that he was in the top 20 last season in points, steals and assists. He's what the Pistons need--a somewhat-proven starting Point Guard. He may shoot too much, and isn't Rondo or D. Rose, but those guys don't fall out of the sky. They gave up a player (Knight) at a position where they had the most depth (guard) and got an actual PG, where they had really nobody unless you count Chauncey who doesn't have much left I'm sure. They also gave up Kravtsov and Middleton if you want to count that, but they're non-contributors. I'm not saying let's prep for a banner raising, but I think this is an excellent deal for the Pistons at a relatively low cost for the type of player they are getting.
Because Rondo would have cost them way more than Knight.
Probably would have cost them Monroe.
Yea man. I agree...all these "I hate it" without anything to back it up. $8mil a year, not bad. On the court he's worth 18ppg, got to see his fg% but I'm a Jennings fan. I think the Pistons have definitely improved from last season.
Get over the Trey Burke thing already damn.
For a blog that has a ton of advanced analytics stuff, albeit mostly regarding football, I'm shocked to see a mixed reaction here.
Jennings is a bad player right now. He doesn't help you win games:
If you're going the advanced metrics, he was an above average player (above 16 PER). Knight meanwhile had around a 12 PER which is far from average. Also, he provides an ACTUAL POINT GUARD. Knight was not a point guard and we had no one else to fill that role. Now we have him as a starter, KCP at shooting guard and some backups like Billups for leadership
PER is heavily influenced by usage. Practically anyone who dominates the ball at the rate Jennings does can put up an above average PER. Go look at Antoine Walker's career PERs, and yet practically no one from the advanced analytics crowd will come by and say "there's a guy who helped a team win." On the flip side, RAPM doesn't seem to think too fondly of Jennings, and his TS% of 51% is awful for a guy who shoots that much.
There's some hope for him if he ever figures out the difference between a good and a bad shot, because he does do a solid job of not turning the ball over and distributing. But when he puts up a jumper, which he does really, realy often, it's bad news.
In the right situation, I think Jennings is capable of being useful. But I can't think of a situation worse for him than Detroit, where he's going to be depended on to space the floor (since no one else on the team can shoot) and create far more offense than he should be relied on for.
EDIT: That isn't to say Knight's any better of a player by the way. I don't think he ends up any more than a 7th man at best to be honest, but that doesn't change that comitting to Jennings as the PG of this team is a mistake, compounded further by trying to turn Josh Smith into a SF.
Unless this trade cleared a slot for him. And Stuckey is a combo 3rd guard who's basically just an expiring contract anyway.
And billups hasn't played pg in 2 years
Played a lot of SG at LAC. Pistons doesn't consider Stuckey a PG anymore. There's 3 PGs on the roster and one will spend time on the bench or may not make the roster(so that makes it two if that's the case)
Be sure and tell Chauncey that.
On the roster are Jennings and Bynum. Billups and Stuckey are SG. They will back up KCP. Siva is on the bubble but can stand to learn from Chauncey. Not sure how you're seeing 5 PGs on the roster
Double post...first one!
He also played for the Bucks.
Pistons are taking a gamble on his talent and being only 23. He's not a good player now but it seems he should have some upside, and that's all you're going to get for 3/$24M. That video shows that he doesn't have great shot selection for sure, but I'm not sure that some of the other stuff was a bit cherry-picked (player stat comparisons) or (somewhat) easily fixable. Step-back jumpers and picking up your mark at half-court should be easy to fix. (Not that forcing a PG to drive contested into the land of Drummond/Monroe would be a bad thing on this team). Offensively, here's hoping that he's able to feed the bigs on this team easier than having to force up a shot. If he's really quick enough to get into the lane that's worth it IMO.
but I'm not blown away by his stats. Poor shooter, doesn't get to the line. Not saying that this won't work or that he is a bad player, just my shallow observations.
I really like this roster, can't wait till the season starts.
I've watched him play regularly and I dont understand not liking this move. Jennings is an upgrade over Knight, we lose almost nothing, and he was looking for $48-50m yet we signed him for $24m. When he's hot he goes off for 50+, his most important stats have all improved since he came into the league, except last year where he averaged under 2 points less, but one assist more than the year before. His style will fit our roster because our bigs should easily be able to offset his shooting inefficiency, plus he averages over 6 assists and shoots .375 from 3. Last year he and Monta Ellis even led the friggin Milwaukee Bucks to the playoffs!
I think this roster is certainly playoff-worthy at this point. I'm not sure they can make it to the 2nd round, but it's not like there's a player out there they could realistically grab that would get them to that level. The only downside to being a playoff team is that they would have to then deliver the pick in next year's draft to the Bobcats....err...Hornets (part 3?). That is the supposed deepest draft ever. But we also don't know who for sure will declare for that draft. I suppose it's better to build a playoff roster instead banking on a bunch of unkown future possibilities.
At least the team is interesting IMO. I think we are a 6 or 7 seed in the East.
Trey was horrible this summer league, but it was only because his shot was off. He had nice assist numbers and wasnt too turnover prone which are 2 of his biggest strengths. Summer league is all about athleticism since theres no real structured offensive system and most of the guys are fighting for 1-2 roster spots trying to get their own shine. Anyone can have a stretch of bad shooting games. However, if Trey continues those struggles in the regular season, he can find himself having a Chauncey Billups-esque rookie season where the Utah Jazz give up on him rather quickly.
Jennings and Knight are not the same player at all. It's not even clear that Knight is a PG in this league. And Jennings is not undersized. He's 6'1" which is close to the average size for PG in the NBA
I am misremembering, but didn't Dwight Howard lead the magic to the finals? Saying jameer led them is a bit misleading.
I remember when I was a Pistons fan...you know, pre-2013 NBA Draft. Stay strong, brothers.
FANTASTIC MOVE - though it isn't a game changer, it clearly moves us forward. Jennings biggest downside is that he demands so many shots. We'll see if that can be somewhat changed in Detroit. Regardless, we give up Knight, and that is basically it. Knight hasn't shown nearly the potential as Jennings. Plus, you know, Jennings is a true, acutal PG. Put Cheeks and Billups around Jennings and smart money is on Jennings getting better than his already 17 pts, 7 AST per game.
Detroit is becoming interesting, for sure.
give Jennings the edge in court vision and passing ability, that alone makes him an upgrade. I never saw Knight being anything more than a good scorer / energy player. Pistons are moving in the right direction IMO.
My housemate loves this trade, and he's a Bucks fan...
They got nothing in return for him. They'd have been better off letting him go in free agency and clear the cap space.
He's just happy not to have to deal with Jennings anymore. I can't say I've watched him play much, but from what I can gather he does very little to make the players around him better.
I've seen a good chunk of posters referring to Jennings' "lack of playing any defense". Seems like an incorrect assessment, when in fact Jennings was #19 in the NBA in steals per game last year. Kind of difficult to "not play any defense", yet still crack the top 20 in thefts.
But I don't mind the deal. The contract is very reasonable, they gave up nothing, he's an obvious upgrade, ad he at least has a better shot to learn from Chauncey than Knight did. And with the reasonable contract, if you wanted to flip him later you could, even for Rondo which would give you a package where you might not have to give up Monroe (and they'd get a PG in return). Though I'm not sure how soon after trading for him they can trade him.
This season at least, the team is going to feel like a jammed together puzzle and not very organic, so it might take awhile to warm to them. But most Piston teams are formed with a mix.
As of now Jennings has been a very talented player who has the potential to have a huge game. With a new team one can hope he becomes a top 5 pg who can score 20 a game and pitch in an adequete amount of assists. He potentialy is a guy who can make a few all-star games and be a perenial top 10 pg.
Neither smith or Jennings are team guys, they are stats guys. Unusual that Joe D is repeating Villanueva Ben Gordon mistake all over again. Maybe it will work this time but I don't think the s anything other than a 7-8th seed team that now misses on next years lottery bonanza. Joe d would ave screwed that draft up anyway though so whatever.
But I will say he builds a winner through FA/ trades rather than the draft. When we won in 04 only 1 starter was a draft pick(Tayshaun). The only key contributors that came off the oak, that were our picks, were Lindsey and Okur. The argument can be made that Mike James and Corliss gave more off the pine. The later acquisitions of Mcdyess and C-Webb were good moves.
Bottom line if Joe D could draft better he would be fine.
In Moose and Drummond. Everybody miss at the draft. I think he is at league average when it comes to draft success
Granted Joe did draft Monroe but he also drafted Darko. I'm just saying that it appears that Joe's strategy to build a team focuses more on acquiring FA/ trades than cultivating draft picks.
Darko over Melo/Wade/Bosh at #2 overall. Joe D isn't alone in this one.
I am Nuggets fan, actually. When I saw the terms of this deal, I thought the Pistons got a steal-- of course, I like Jennings alot, so that might color my impression. Also, Brandon Knight is a guy who has never once done anything to distinguish himself from "average gaurd-type substance". In fact, I realized today that the picture that my mind has associated with Brandon Knight was actually Patrick Beverly, for whatever reason.
In other words, I can actually say wouldn't have believed Brandon Knight telling me he was Brandon Knight before tonight. Brandon Jennings could be a top 10 PG (doubful, especially in this golden age of point gaurd play, but he has that type of potential)-- Knight will be lucky to be a top 10 combo bench guy.
Deron Williams (5 years, $100 Million, often mentioned in the same breath as Chris Paul.)
18.7 PPG, 7.7 APG, 3.0 RPG
1.0 SPG, 2.8 TOPG
Brandon Jennings (3 Years, $24 Million)
17.5 PPG, 6.5 APG, 3.1 RPG
1.6 SPG, 2.5 TOPG
Not much difference in production. $12 million less per year and for 2 less years. Also, Jennings hasn't played with the quality of teammates, nor coaches that Williams has been afforded.
Josh Smith and Brandon Jennings make a poor man's Kevin Durant and Russell Westbrook. Get a 3-point specialist, defensive minded 2 like the second coming of Rip and see what Sheed can do with Greg Monroe and maybe Joe D is on to something here.
I'm all for being a homer, but c'mon bro, slow your road on that one.
Jennings definitely seems like an upgrade in talent over Knight and the Pistons really didn't give up anyone that was a sure thing to be in their rotation next season. Also, 3 yr/$24 million seems reasonable.
I do share concerns that he doesn't seem to be a great shooter who compounds that by shooting a lot, but look at thost Bucks team, outside of him and Monta Ellis, who else would you want to shoot the ball? The last two seasons with Monta Ellis, the Bucks' 3rd leading scorer were J.J. Redick and Drew Gooden. The two seasons before that, without Ellis, the other primary option was John Salmons.
One can only hope that with a better supporting cast, he won't need to shoot as much and he'll continue to increase his assist rate (which has gone up every season). Also, as far as shooting, he did have a good year from 3 last season (.375) which is something that this team needs.
Overall, the roster definitely seems like it has more talent and it'll be interesting to see how it all fits together.
Looking at Jennings' Milwaukee numbers and after watching him play and all the critiques against him, he's a good player, solid point guard with a lot of potential to score and set up teammates. He's a more than willing passer who seems to enjoy setting up teammates. I'm not sure why he's labeled as selfish. Too many tattoo's maybe. Detroit's current roster is vastly different and, in my opinion, more talented than Milwaukee's team last year. With that being said, Jennings will have a different role w/ the Pistons. He'll still be the PG, but there won't be so much pressure on him to score. Cheeks plus growth and maturity will slow Jennings down a bit, remove a few of those poor shots, long twos and learning to play solid, team defense and he could easily turn into a very, very good player.
Most of his weaknesses are fixable (is that a word?). I need to see him improve on his off hand as he's a lefty who doesn't finish very well w/ his right hand. Jennings is still a project, but he's a much more polished, experienced project than Knight and he's better than any other PG that was available. This move improves the Pistons a lot and frees up some roster spots and some of the logjam in the frontcourt. Good job, Joe. Just my opinion.
This is off topic and should be marked as such.
Included in the trade are
Brandon Knight - Kentucky
Khris Middleton - Texas A&M
Viacheslav Kravtsov - foreign
This does not have any play on UofM sports in any such way.
Easy there topic Nazi! Just look at it this way... Had the OP done things by the book and to a T, then you wouldn't have been able to post this wonderfully corrective comment that shows off your blazing personality and why you're probably the life of any party you attend.
BTW, the Pistons presumably didn't draft Trey Burke (I believe he suited up a time or two for UofM) because they already had their PG "of the future" in tow. So this post is in direct correlation to that draft night debacle that set this blog ablaze. Boom. Lawyered!
Yes the post should have been marked OT, but it is clearly labeled about what it's about and if you aren't a Pistons/NBA fan, you have plenty of warning not to click on it. I'm fine with pointing out poorly labeled threads, but don't be a dick for no reason.
Gordon and Villanueva got 90M+ deals one offseason
Smith, Jennings, Billups and Datome got 86M+ deals this offseason
Joe D did a good job this offseason IMHO...hopefully this Roster gels and the Pistons end up a 4-6 seed and win a playoff series.