Home
we had subs it was crazy

Primary links

  • About
    • $upport (lol)
    • Ethics
    • FAQ
    • Privacy Policy
  • Contact
  • MGoStore
  • MGoBoard
    • MGoBoard FAQ
    • Ticket spreadsheet
    • Michigan bar locator
    • Moderator Action Sticky
  • Useful Stuff
    • Depth Chart By Class
    • Unofficial Two Deep
    • 2013 Offer Board
    • Crude Bug Tracking System
    • Third Down Stats
    • Diaries, Windows Live Writer, And You
    • Michigan Future Schedules
    • User-Curated HOF
    • 2013 Recruiting Board
    • Where To Eat In Ann Arbor
Home Forums MGoBoard

Navigation

  • Forums
  • Recent posts

User login

  • Create new account
  • Request new password

MGoElsewhere

  • @MGoBlog (Brian)
  • @aceanbender
  • @TomVH (Tom)
  • RSS Feed
  • iPhone App
  • Facebook profile
  • MGoKindle Store
  • mgo.licio.us
  • Brian @ TSB [Archive]
  • Brian @ AOL [Archive]
  • Sour Salty Bitter Sweet

Michigan Blogs

  • Big House Blog
  • Burgeoning Wolverine Star
  • Genuinely Sarcastic
  • Go Blue Michigan Wolverine
  • Holdin' The Rope
  • MGoFootball
  • MVictors
  • Maize 'n' Blue Nation
  • Maize 'n' Brew
  • Maize And Go Blue
  • Michigan Hockey Net
  • The Blog That Yost Built
  • The Hoover Street Rag
  • The M Block
  • The M Zone
  • The Wolverine Blog
  • Touch The Banner
  • UMGoBlog
  • UMHoops
  • UMTailgate
  • Wolverine Liberation Army

M On The Net

  • mgovideo
  • MGoBlue.com
  • Mike DeSimone
  • Recruiting Planet
  • The Wolverine
  • Go Blue Wolverine
  • Winged Helmet
  • UMGoBlue.com
  • MaizeRage.org
  • Puckhead
  • The M Den
  • True Blue Fan Forum

Big Ten Blogs

  • Illinois
    • A Lion Eye
    • Hail To The Orange
    • Illinois Baseball Report
    • Illinois Loyalty
  • Indiana
    • Inside The Hall
    • The Crimson Quarry
  • Iowa
    • Black Heart, Gold Pants
    • Fight For Iowa
  • Michigan State
    • The Only Colors
  • Minnesota
    • GopherHole.com
    • The Daily Gopher
    • I'm In Love With A Fringe Bowl Team
    • TNABACG
  • Nebraska
    • Big Red Network
    • Corn Nation
    • Husker Mike's Blasphemy
    • Husker Gameday
  • Northwestern
    • Sippin' On Purple
    • Lake The Posts
  • Notre Dame
    • The House Rock Built
    • One Foot Down
  • Ohio State
    • Eleven Warriors
    • Buckeye Commentary
    • Men of the Scarlet and Gray
    • Our Honor Defend
    • The Buckeye Nine
  • Penn State
    • Slow States
    • Black Shoe Diaries
    • Happy Valley Hardball
    • Penn State Clips
    • Linebacker U
    • Nittany White Out
  • Purdue
    • Boiled Sports
    • Hammer and Rails
  • Wisconsin
    • Bruce Ciskie

Links of Note

  • Baseball
    • Big Ten Hardball
    • College Baseball Today
    • The Baseball Zealot
    • The College Baseball Blog
  • Basketball
    • Ken Pomeroy
    • Basketball Prospectus
    • Midmajority
  • College Hockey
    • Chris Heisenberg
    • College Hockey Stats
    • Inside College Hockey
    • Michigan College Hockey
    • Hockey's Future
    • Sioux Sports
    • USCHO
    • Western College Hockey
    • CCHA
      • LSSU Hockey
      • Bronco Hockey Blog
  • Football
    • Smart Football
    • Every Day Should Be Saturday
    • Doctor Saturday
    • CFB Stats
    • Harold Stassen
    • NCAA D-I Stats Page
    • The Wizard Of Odds
  • General
    • Sports Central
  • Local Interest
    • The Ann Arbor Chronicle
    • Arborwiki
    • Arbor Update
    • Teeter Talk
    • Vacuum
  • Teams Of The D
    • Lions
      • Pride of Detroit
      • Fire Millen
    • Pistons
      • Detroit Bad Boys
      • Need4Sheed
    • Tigers
      • Roar Of The Tigers
      • The Detroit Tigers Weblog
      • The Daily Fungo
    • Red Wings
      • On The Wings
      • Behind The Jersey
      • Winging It In Motown
    • Michigan Sports Forum

Archive

  • May 2013 (55)
  • April 2013 (94)
  • March 2013 (104)
  • February 2013 (81)
  • January 2013 (93)
  • December 2012 (74)
  • November 2012 (142)
  • October 2012 (143)
  • September 2012 (107)
  • August 2012 (103)
  •  
  • 1 of 11
  • ››

Get Yer Tickets

Football Display Case

NFL Watches

Follow your favorite team with localtv-satellite.com: Click Here.

Site Search

Diaries

  • New
  • Popular
  • Hot
  • Does Expansion Actually Lead to More Recruits From a Certain Region?
    maizeonblueaction - 22 hours ago
  • Raiding the B1G-er Big Ten: Recruiting Prospects in Maryland and Rutgers Territory
    The Mathlete - 2 days ago
  • A Cynical Take on Why Expansion May be Dead for the Forseeable Future
    maizeonblueaction - 3 days ago
  • LIGHT IT UP, AGAIN. WALLPAPER
    jonvalk - 3 days ago
  • Using Rivals' Star Ratings To Look At Big Ten Football Recruiting: 2002-2013
    LSAClassOf2000 - 4 days ago
  •  
  • 1 of 4
  • ››
more
  • Using Rivals' Star Ratings To Look At Big Ten Football Recruiting: 2002-2013
    LSAClassOf2000 - 930 views
  • More Milford Men Than Michigan Men: Comparing the 11-12 and 12-13 Hockey Teams
    MGoBlueline - 802 views
  • UMich NFL draft history, Part III
    blueheron - 780 views
  • LIGHT IT UP, AGAIN. WALLPAPER
    jonvalk - 744 views
  • A Cynical Take on Why Expansion May be Dead for the Forseeable Future
    maizeonblueaction - 626 views
  •  
  • 1 of 2
  • ››
more
  • Big Ten Recruiting Rankings 4-30-13
    Ace - 81 comments
  • Using Rivals' Star Ratings To Look At Big Ten Football Recruiting: 2002-2013
    LSAClassOf2000 - 19 comments
  • A Cynical Take on Why Expansion May be Dead for the Forseeable Future
    maizeonblueaction - 18 comments
  • LIGHT IT UP, AGAIN. WALLPAPER
    jonvalk - 17 comments
  • Raiding the B1G-er Big Ten: Recruiting Prospects in Maryland and Rutgers Territory
    The Mathlete - 13 comments
  •  
  • 1 of 2
  • ››
more

MGoBoard

  • New
  • Recent
  • Hot
  • Michigan wrestlers accused of Molotov cocktail possession suspended indefinitely
    43 replies
  • Who's Your Favorite Michigan QB?
    142 replies
  • Softball Super Regional v. Louisiana-Lafayette, game 1
    53 replies
  • Sam Webb write up on five-star center Elijah Thomas
    12 replies
  • There should be 110,000 Rubber Chickens at the ND Game
    36 replies
  • OT- Miguel Cabrera is good at baseball, visual proof
    34 replies
  • Michigan/Minnesota football - Oct 5 - 330 pm EST
    15 replies
  • Memorial Day Weekend (here for the) posbang thread
    108 replies
  • The Official SIAP Alan Branch Photoshop Thread
    33 replies
  • Which Pay Site Is Best?
    60 replies
  • OT: Star Trek + Dilithium = Esplode…. Esplode clarity
    26 replies
  • OT - ND paid Charlie more than Brian Kelly in 2012
    36 replies
  • Softball SuperRegionals Open Thread
    27 replies
  • OT: ESPN hires Paul Finebaum
    40 replies
  • OT: Red Wings vs Hawks Game 4 Open Thread
    193 replies
  •  
  • 1 of 6
  • ››
  • Which Pay Site Is Best?
    60 replies
  • Who's Your Favorite Michigan QB?
    142 replies
  • There should be 110,000 Rubber Chickens at the ND Game
    36 replies
  • The Official SIAP Alan Branch Photoshop Thread
    33 replies
  • Scouting Report: Jabrill Peppers
    155 replies
  • Softball Super Regional v. Louisiana-Lafayette, game 1
    53 replies
  • Michigan wrestlers accused of Molotov cocktail possession suspended indefinitely
    43 replies
  • Michigan/Minnesota football - Oct 5 - 330 pm EST
    15 replies
  • Sam Webb write up on five-star center Elijah Thomas
    12 replies
  • OT- Miguel Cabrera is good at baseball, visual proof
    34 replies
  • Memorial Day Weekend (here for the) posbang thread
    108 replies
  • Who should replace ND in a long-term series?
    145 replies
  • Softball SuperRegionals Open Thread
    27 replies
  • How much do you really hate ohio?
    146 replies
  • OT: ESPN hires Paul Finebaum
    40 replies
  •  
  • 1 of 6
  • ››
  • OT: Red Wings vs Hawks Game 3 Open Thread
    203 replies
  • OT: Red Wings vs Hawks Game 4 Open Thread
    193 replies
  • Scouting Report: Jabrill Peppers
    155 replies
  • OT - Official MGoBaby Thread (you got 'em, we want to see 'em)
    151 replies
  • How much do you really hate ohio?
    146 replies
  • Who should replace ND in a long-term series?
    145 replies
  • Who's Your Favorite Michigan QB?
    142 replies
  • OT? Graduatin' Season. Who had the Worst Commencement Speaker?
    141 replies
  • Speight and TomVH on Peppers
    116 replies
  • OT: Red Wings @ Hawks Game 2 Open Thread
    114 replies
  • Prayers for Moore, Oklahoma
    112 replies
  • Memorial Day Weekend (here for the) posbang thread
    108 replies
  • 5 star 2013 DT may not be enrolling at Notre Dame
    93 replies
  • OT: NBA Draft Lottery
    78 replies
  • ESPN 30 for 30 on the Bad Boys
    77 replies
  •  
  • 1 of 6
  • ››

mgo.licio.us

  • Burke says Michigan can be 'just as good' next year with McGary, Robinson III leading

    yes plz

    0 comments
  • SEC coaches with tiny faces

    I don't think they changed Les at all actually

    1 comments
  • This college baseball team is the best at postgame interviews

    national champs baby

    1 comments
  • Rounding up the latest in NCAA absurdities.

    Patrick Hruby is doing God's work.

    0 comments
  • Cornell wrestler tops Michigan's Trey Burke for Sports Illustrated award | The Detroit News | detroitnews.com

    first comment: "EVERY ATHLETE HAS ASPIRATIONS OF WINNING AND WE HAVE OUR FAVORITES BUT IT IS ALWAYS A PLEASURE TO OTHER STUDENTS ACHIEVE THEIR GOALS, TOO!"

    0 comments
  • Burke hearing he'll go two through six in NBA draft

    stupid Pistons and their refusal to tank properly

    0 comments
  • 2013 NHL Draft Prospect: Andrew Copp

    rundown of Michigan's riser

    0 comments
  • Michigan's key returnee: Glenn Robinson

    needs moar usage

    0 comments
  • Former Arkansas QB Brandon Mitchell transferring to NC State

    so much for that

    0 comments
  • The B1G List: Ranking the State Fossils of the Big Ten

    This list is completely arbitrary and not a genuine analysis of the relative merits of state fossils.

    0 comments
  • Trey Burke turns to inner circle to prepare for NBA draft

    will be michigan's highest pick in a while

    2 comments
  • B1G assistant coach salaries on the rise

    money has to go somewhere

    0 comments
  • Tim Hardaway Jr. is motivated by his critics and doubters, and supremely confident in his ability

    I am only motivated by people who have no opinion about me.

    0 comments
  • Big Ten football procrastinates on parity-based scheduling, and nothing ever changes

    the just released schedules were a flat-out statement that the B10 doesn't believe SOS will matter in playoff selection

    1 comments
  • Michigan's Glenn Robinson III, Mitch McGary ranked inside top 20 on ESPN's 2014 draft board

    but I thought that draft was supposed to be incredibly loaded?

    1 comments
  •  
  • 1 of 2
  • ››
more

Pick and Roll

12 posts / 0 new
Login or register to post comments
Last post
December 12th, 2010 at 1:05 PM
#1
nofunforfu
Joined: 07/22/2010
MGoPoints: 140
Pick and Roll

I'm certainly not a basketball expert and have had concerns in the past about the offense Beilein runs, but one thing I've been excited to see quite a bit of this year is the pick and roll with Morris and Morgan. They have worked that together real well when I've seen it. Too often I've seen players doing everything possible to be falling away from the basket and/or shooting threes instead of driving since Beilein took over. Something I would like to see, and I saw once in the game against Utah, was the pick and roll with Hardaway Jr. and Morgan.

One thing I'm wondering, though, is if this lack of driving to the basket was a result of the players Beilein has had since he got here (other than so far this year) or if the system eliminates good drivers opportunity to drive when the situation arises? With Burke and Brundidge coming next year, I'm hoping to see more drives to the hole in the next few seasons.

Top
  • Login or register to post comments
Tags:
  • MGoBoard
  • basketball

Comment viewing options

Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.
December 12th, 2010 at 1:14 PM | Athletes (Score:1)
Son of Tacopants
Son of Tacopants's picture
Joined: 12/12/2010
MGoPoints: 501

I think they just have enough athleticism to pull it off now.  They finally have a great true point guard in Morris, combined with hardaway and morgan they can get to the rim and make plays.  With Vogrich, Douglas, and Novaks hitting their threes the penetrate and kick and pick and roll and kick offense is a lot more deadly.  They also have been excuting some nice backdoor cuts for layups.  Beats having Manny Harris trying to do to much on his own, thats for sure.

  • Login or register to post comments
December 12th, 2010 at 1:54 PM | "The offense Beilein runs" (Score:1)
el segundo
Joined: 04/17/2009
MGoPoints: 503

I get a little frustrated with the recycling of inaccurate and misleading cliches about how John Beilein coaches offense.  So many posters and fans refer to his "three-point system" or to the "fact" that Michigan "lives and dies with the three pointer."  Others insist that the "Beilein system" won't work with bigs. And so on.

Unfortunately, these comments seem to spawn from the feeble minds of the basketball commentariat on television and radio, who prefer to traffic in cliches and half-truths, instead of actually watching the games and paying attention.

John Beilein does not have a "system" in the way that many other college coaches do.  He adapts the structure of his offense to his talent, although there are some offensive principles that he adheres to in the way he develops those structures:  have versatile players at all five positions who can handle the ball, shoot, and pass; open up the floor by having a viable three-point threat from multiple players, including bigs; use off-the-ball player movement, especially back-door cuts to create opportunities for lay-ups; use constant ball movement to creat open shots instead of relying on individual players creating shots for themselves with the dribble or in post-up situations.

At West Virginia, he used some concepts from the "Princeton" offense developed by Pete Carrill -- movement around the high post (or a double high post) that created mismatches, easy drives, and open threes.  At Michigan, he has not used anything like this because he has not had the bigs who can make it work.  Last year, when he had two players (Harris and Sims) who could create their own shots, he used more pick and roll and even some isolation (even though using isolation to create shots is generally incompatible with Beilein's offensive principles).

John Beilein is not "against" having his players drive to the basket.  If he differs from other coaches, it's in how he sets up the offense to create driving lanes and driving opportunities.  His offensive sets are creative and often complicated (and complication is not always a good thing).  But his offense is nothing like the caricature that the Dick Vitales and Seth Davises of the world describe.

  • Login or register to post comments
December 12th, 2010 at 2:21 PM | well said; there's also (Score:1)
MGlobules
Joined: 11/17/2008
MGoPoints: 5161

an implied sense that his offenses are not improvisational, which tends to get subtly transmuted into a threat that great players will languish in his system. They WILL have to learn the game of hoop more thoroughly, and they will have to play on a team where all five players are, ideally, contributing strongly (take their turn, share the rock and points). What I am learning to love, as I learn more about the game from watching his team play, is its multidimensional qualities. Being ABLE to shoot the three, from anywhere, puts the whole court in play for the whole team, and is very hard to guard.

For a wonderful bit of improvisational genius on the pick and roll between Darius Morris and Jon Horford, check out the video ("Five Plays Against Utah, etc.") up now at umhoops.com.

  • Login or register to post comments
December 12th, 2010 at 5:24 PM | I'm certainly not a (Score:1)
the_white_tiger
the_white_tiger's picture
Joined: 02/07/2009
MGoPoints: 5227

I'm certainly not a basketball expert and have had concerns in the past about the offense Beilein runs

Maize n Brew

  • Login or register to post comments
December 12th, 2010 at 8:36 PM | Yes, I'm not an expert. But I (Score:1)
nofunforfu
Joined: 07/22/2010
MGoPoints: 140

Yes, I'm not an expert. But I do watch quite a bit of basketball and personally prefer an offense that runs through its big men. Feed it down low, run pick and rolls, take shots going towards the basket. Again, just the offense I prefer.

  • Login or register to post comments
December 12th, 2010 at 11:14 PM | and don't get me started on Beilein and his (Score:1)
champswest
champswest's picture
Joined: 10/04/2009
MGoPoints: 2003

1-3-1 zone.

"I hate losing more than I like winning." - Zack

  • Login or register to post comments
December 12th, 2010 at 4:06 PM | There are a lot of (Score:1)
UMfan21
Joined: 09/28/2009
MGoPoints: 1770

There are a lot of misconceptions about Beilein's offense.  If people want to learn more, read up on the "motion offense".  There's lots of stuff on the internet about it.  After learning what they are actually doing out there, I'm surprised at how much of the "live by the three" or "Princeton offense" crap I hear that is just flat wrong.  We need to dispell these misconceptions. 

In the motion offense, it's all about reading what the defense gives you, and making it flow.  Yes, they do run some set plays, but the base offense is a "read and react" type system. 

I think some of the "pick and roll" may be set plays, but much of it is just reacting to the defense.  When Morgan sets a pick, when he releases, if he's man is playing tight, he can cut to the hoop and that's when Morris finds him.  Not every defense will play that way, and, a lot of that is due to the respect they are giving Morris.  It will be interesting to see what happens as the season goes on.  If the 3s stop falling, the defense may sag off.  If Morris stops being red hot, the back doors won't be there. 

  • Login or register to post comments
December 12th, 2010 at 8:45 PM | The way the offense has (Score:1)
nofunforfu
Joined: 07/22/2010
MGoPoints: 140

The way the offense has worked this year, I'm quite happy with it. The "read and react" I seem to see a little more than in previous years.

Again, that's where the question comes from. In years past, it seems like the majority of players on the court were hesitant to do anything near the basket (Sims and Harris excluded). I've got vivid memories of Merritt, Lee, Douglass, Novak and Morris last year getting somewhere near the paint and in almost a hurried fashion try to find a way away from the hoop to get back to the outside. I can't imagine it  was frustrating just to me to see this happen.

This year, though, I think the athleticism on the team is better than ever. Morris is better than any point guard Beilein has had, Hardaway seems quite similar to Harris in skill set, and Novak and especially Douglass seem more comfortable around the rim. So if this is how the offense should be, I'm quite pleased with it. I just wasn't sure if this is the norm and the past few years have been limited b/c of the athletes, o if this is an exception so far. I hope we can keep this up all year.

  • Login or register to post comments
December 12th, 2010 at 7:09 PM | Beilein and Talent (Score:1)
burtcomma
burtcomma's picture
Joined: 11/01/2009
MGoPoints: 2333

I like watching this team play basketball as a team game and especially how they have played defense this year.  Young team that is going to be taught well and get much better with talent and appears to be very coachable and Beilein and his staff this year seem to be able to get these guys to learn.

  • Login or register to post comments
December 12th, 2010 at 7:26 PM | I have too (Score:1)
mwolverineforlife
mwolverineforlife's picture
Joined: 09/30/2009
MGoPoints: 377

I've noticed the pick and rolls also. Hey, why not? If it works do it.

Charles Woodson, down the sideline, he's gonna go all the way, TOUCHDOWN MICHIGAN!!!!!

  • Login or register to post comments
December 12th, 2010 at 11:29 PM | I am no expert either...but what I see with this team.. (Score:1)
JTGoBlue
JTGoBlue's picture
Joined: 08/31/2009
MGoPoints: 223

Is focus, crispness, effort..deliberate, smart play...they seem more experienced than they are, more 'together' than they should be...again, I'm a casual obverver, enjoy the games, but know very little about basketball strategy, schemes, etc..

  • Login or register to post comments
Powered by Pressflow, an open source content management system
Theme provided by Roopletheme; sidebars adapted from Chris Murphy.