will be michigan's highest pick in a while
Penn State Punishment Open Thread--UPDATE: NCAA Punshment--$60M Fine, Lots of Scholarships
July 23rd, 2012 at 9:45 AM | 
They got crushed. Big blow
They got crushed. Big blow
July 23rd, 2012 at 9:45 AM |
I grew up in PA and was a
I grew up in PA and was a
I grew up in PA and was a Penn State fan before I was a Michigan fan.
As somebody who wants what is in Penn State's best interest, I would rather see them take a year off, "reboot" the program, and start over clean, rather than the scholarship limits and bowl bans.
On paper, it may seem like they got away with a lesser punishment, but I don't think so. With the scholarship limits and bowl bans over four years, it just drags the program through the mud for a long time, and in a diminished capacity. It emerges stained and bruised with no clean separation from the past.
A self-imposed year off would benefit everyone. It gives time to reflect on what went wrong and what the program should be. It can then come back clean, reorganized and refocused, and stronger for it.
Penn State is not SMU. SMU had to buy the only success it ever had. Given its status as the only major D1 program in talent rich PA (sorry Pitt), Penn State will always be successful. A year off will let them return to that success the right way.
M'Dog
July 23rd, 2012 at 9:46 AM |
Tweet from Dennis Dodd
Tweet from Dennis Dodd
Penn State limited to 65 schollys per year. Division I-AA allows 63.
If they are limited to a max of 15 scholarships per year, it seems like there would be the potential to be only 60 scholarship athletes in the last year of the probation. I cannot believe that the Big Ten won't add a 13th team with plans to add a 14th team by time PSU comes off the postseason ban.
July 23rd, 2012 at 9:46 AM |
Joe Paterno
Joe Paterno
5th All-Time (FBS history), 8th All-Time (CFB history)...
Someone earlier said 12th, ESPN just reported 5th and 8th.
“True loyalty is that quality of service that grows under adversity and expands in defeat. Any street urchin can shout applause in victory, but it takes character to stand fast in defeat. One is noise — the other, loyalty.”
July 23rd, 2012 at 10:52 AM |
Not to say wiki is right
Not to say wiki is right
But they're getting it from here-
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_college_football_coaches_with_200_wins
"I love him, he's a great coach, he's a great mentor, he's a great friend. He's every single thing you want a college coach to be, and he does it flawlessly." -David Molk
July 23rd, 2012 at 9:50 AM |
See NCAA releases on PSU
See NCAA releases on PSU
See NCAA releases on PSU Sanctions and Penn State football student-athletes allowed easier transfers
Additionally, the NCAA is considering waiving scholarship limits for programs to which these football student-athletes transfer, provided they reduce proportionately in the next year. For example, the limit is 25 new scholarships per year to a total of 85 scholarships. If the limits are waived in 2012-13 to accommodate one Penn State student-athlete who wishes to transfer to a particular school already at the limits, in 2013-14 the school will be limited to 24 new scholarships and 84 total scholarships.
Twitter: @Raoul_000
July 23rd, 2012 at 10:54 AM |
How does the lower limit work the next year
How does the lower limit work the next year
If the player's not a senior?
This would be a bad idea...schools would kill each other for an extra player.
"I love him, he's a great coach, he's a great mentor, he's a great friend. He's every single thing you want a college coach to be, and he does it flawlessly." -David Molk
July 23rd, 2012 at 9:46 AM |
The fun doesn't stop here:
The fun doesn't stop here:
The fun doesn't stop here: B1G press conference at 11am per BTN.
Denard has spent the offseason working really hard and smiling at people.
July 23rd, 2012 at 9:46 AM |
Personally:
Personally:
I am glad that PSU did not get the death penalty. These sanctions are sufficient, but the PSU players and fanbase will still get to play/watch football in the fall. That will be at least a small escape for people who had nothing to do with this tragedy.
Homer? Who is Homer? My name is Wolverine Incognito.
July 23rd, 2012 at 9:55 AM |
I think the networks should
I think the networks should
I think the networks should all agree NOT to cover the Penn State home opener this year. Let the circus die down some before you turn the spotlight back on it.
M'Dog
July 23rd, 2012 at 9:47 AM |
Tom Bradley...
Tom Bradley...
Yikes. How do you start your career with THIS?!
“True loyalty is that quality of service that grows under adversity and expands in defeat. Any street urchin can shout applause in victory, but it takes character to stand fast in defeat. One is noise — the other, loyalty.”
July 23rd, 2012 at 10:00 AM |
By demanding
By demanding
a pay raise to stay on.
If an OSU fan divorces his wife are they still brother and sister?
July 23rd, 2012 at 12:07 PM |
Their coach is Bill O'Brien.
Their coach is Bill O'Brien.
Their coach is Bill O'Brien. Yeah, it absolutely sucks for him. I don't think anyone would blame him if he decided to leave in the next couple of years.
July 23rd, 2012 at 9:48 AM |
Satellite view of State College
Satellite view of State College
I said - not good enough.
July 23rd, 2012 at 9:55 AM |
I was okay with the bowl ban,
I was okay with the bowl ban,
I was okay with the bowl ban, scholarship reductions, vacated wins, and probably the fine, but the literal nuking of State College is just Emmert rubbing it in.
July 23rd, 2012 at 9:48 AM |
I suppose this should be 0%
I suppose this should be 0%
I suppose this should be 0% surprising by now, but the BSD reaction thread is nauseating. Basically everyone there is furious that the Penn State BoT just "laid down and accepted the penalties" without even trying to fight them. Because, heaven forbid that they show a modicum of contrition for something that the word 'football scandal' grossly trivializes.
(Not to put too fine a point on it because it's comparing apples and mutated zombie sperm whales, but Michigan proactively punished itself when it had its scandals and that, I think, earned us points from the NCAA for at least deigning to recognize we had problems and were committed to fixing them.)
Former Buckeye Antonio Pittman on being a poster child for compliance: "This osu tattoo stuff is silly. Cats been getting hookups on tatts since back in '01."
July 23rd, 2012 at 10:12 AM |
It is sicker than that. This
It is sicker than that. This
It is sicker than that. This is from one of their top poster to the Sandusky victims...
To the point where if someone brings it up, I will openly state we’ve done enough for them. They’re going to compensated financially from the university, they’re being offered the counseling they need, the offenders are facing criminal charges or already in jail. Enough is enough. If one of the victims speaks up and request something, I’m all for helping them and reasonably accommodating their wishes, but I’m done with support actions taken on their behalf. This has gotten absurdly ridiculous. So go ahead and tell me I condone child rape or whatever else you want to label me, but that’s the point that all this shit has driven me to.
July 23rd, 2012 at 9:48 AM |
It's entirely possible PSU
It's entirely possible PSU
It's entirely possible PSU never recovers from this.
July 23rd, 2012 at 9:58 AM |
It will take time, but they
It will take time, but they
It will take time, but they will recover. They have a USC-like advantage of being the major program in a talent-rich recruiting area.
M'Dog
July 23rd, 2012 at 10:09 AM |
Western PA is nowhere near as
Western PA is nowhere near as
Western PA is nowhere near as talent rich as it used to be. Whenever the rare gem does pop up Michigan and Ohio also rush in to fight for it. Look at PSU's roster, less and less out of Western PA and more from New York, New Jersey, and Maryland. Areas where there is no diehard PSU loyalty. Those coal towns in Western PA are emptying out and PSU has been having talented issues as evidenced by the fact it was all downhill for them after the 1980s. They never recruiting on the same level as Tressel and Carr and now it seems garaunteed they'll be lucky to recruit on the level of Indiana.
Also Pitt is now in the ACC and trying to get its act together. This gives Pitt a window to grab all the decent talent in the state and become the dominate football program in state. Even Temple is semi functional for that matter.
July 23rd, 2012 at 10:00 AM |
They will...
They will...
Alabama did, it took 10 years. But they did.
“True loyalty is that quality of service that grows under adversity and expands in defeat. Any street urchin can shout applause in victory, but it takes character to stand fast in defeat. One is noise — the other, loyalty.”
July 23rd, 2012 at 11:08 AM |
I think whole situation is
I think whole situation is
I think whole situation is worse than at Alabama (in terms of sanctions and overall PR nightmare) and Alabama was a stronger program than PSU before all of it. There is no evidence at all that a non-Paterno led Penn State can recruit players or win games, so their recovery will be long and hard. More than 10 years I bet.
During the penalties, they'll suck really hard. Immediately after that they'll still struggle to recruit at a high level because of their recent history (and they still won't win due to the smaller number of upperclassmen) and after that, no kid being recruited will remember anything about Penn State pre-blow up. Think about it - a kid being recruited in the 2018 or 2019 class will have been 9 or 10 when this all went down, and it only gets worse every year after that.
July 23rd, 2012 at 11:40 AM |
I don't disagree except the
I don't disagree except the
I don't disagree except the part of PSU not showing they can recruit without Paterno. He's been there so long that the PSU he inherited was so radically different than one he left, and over those years the team may well have been able to recruit with another head man. I expect PSU to struggle, but it is still a school that should be able to compete in the future.
July 23rd, 2012 at 9:48 AM |
@Ben_Jones88: Last
@Ben_Jones88: Last
@Ben_Jones88: Last quarterback to field a winning team for Penn State: Mike McQueary
USING GRATUITOUS AMOUNTS OF CAPS LOCK SINCE APRIL 2011
July 23rd, 2012 at 9:48 AM |
The question is where does Penn State
The question is where does Penn State
go from here? The vacation of those wins really means nothing to those athletes that played in them. They know they won on the field and that cant be taken away. PSU has lost depth in their roster completly though for the next 4 to 5 years. Absolutely stunned they took away 112 wins along with 40 scholarship losses. I feel this was undeserved for the athletes but because of the staff the whole team must suffer. Man do I feel sorry for O Brien.
We hate Michigan State. We don't like Penn State too. We don't care for Minnesota, Wisconsin or Notre Dame but we all hate O-S-U.
Michigan Blue 2008 block M hockey jersey still for sale for 50.00. FREE S/H
July 23rd, 2012 at 9:51 AM |
I think they got it about right.
I think they got it about right.
Current players need not suffer-they can just transfer. I hope they dont end up as spartans. Wonder when the determination will be made if they can transfer within the conference. We just dont have room on the roster.
As for Penn State...Having 15 schollies/year, combined with the 4 year postseason ban, and the mass exodus, and the stigma...Its going to be a lost decade. Its like Brian suggested a while back. They start over. They call this Team 1. They bill it as "A Team You Can Be Proud Of" and go from there. People will watch. Many many people will still love and support the University, and there is something noble in that. Because they will be terrible. And what came before them was tainted.
Omnes i facere est vincere
July 23rd, 2012 at 9:51 AM |
Congratulations Bobby Bowden.
Congratulations Bobby Bowden.
Congratulations Bobby Bowden. You are now the #1 all-time wins coach in D1.
And I always thought that Bobby B. was the "shady" one. Who knew?
M'Dog
July 23rd, 2012 at 11:36 AM |
I don't think anyone wins in
I don't think anyone wins in
I don't think anyone wins in a debate between the virtues of Bowden and Paterno.
July 23rd, 2012 at 9:51 AM |
Penn State Should Start Over
Penn State Should Start Over
Reboot the program, I agree with some previous posters, have a new Team One.
HAIL.
July 23rd, 2012 at 11:26 AM |
They should change their
They should change their
They should change their uniforms now. Maybe go to a blue helmet with a white stripe or something. Show that they're not the same program anymore.
July 23rd, 2012 at 12:50 PM |
I don't understand
I don't understand
A few people did something very bad. I don't understand how that taints everyone in the program? If you worked at Enron and your boss stole money, does that make you a criminal as well?
July 23rd, 2012 at 9:53 AM |
B1G needs to have a
B1G needs to have a
B1G needs to have a closed-door meeting with Notre Dame. Now.
Not trying to trivialize what happened at PSU at all, indeed, what I am saying just makes the fallout from it that much more substantial, but...
... the B1G has now perfectly justifiable cause to drop PSU from the B1G, and PSU would be nuts to fight against it in a public battle. It would be a PR nightmare for them on top of the nightmare they are already suffering.
Meanwhile, Notre Dame gets a rare opportunity to join the B1G during this time of conference consolidation and playoff formation and having balanced divisions WITHOUT DILUTING THE CONFERENCE. Simply stating, replacing PSU with Notre Dame gives the B1G an even number of financially strong, football strong, and academically strong programs.
Any other scenario that I can come up with that brings Notre Dame on board dilutes the B1G due to the near-necessity of bringing ANOTHER program from somewhere else to make the numbers/scheduling within the B1G work. And I can't think of another school that fits well. Period. So replacement becomes a good option.
And PSU is ripe for pruning, sadly. I wish it weren't so. But it is. Dropping PSU without replacing with ND is, I think, probably not worth it. But it's within the realm of reasonable debate.
Dropping PSU and replacing with ND is a no-brainer.
But I wouldn't have the B1G commit to such a move until it was all but assured, secretly beforehand, that ND would fill the vacancy.
For ND, in a third-handed kind of way, it would also philosophically represent a bit of redemption in being part of the punishment for a tragic scandal involving child abuse, given the association with ND and the Catholic faith, as another example of the synergy of this move.
Once again, I am not seeking to trivialize the tragedy here, but this creates an opportunity for the B1G to make a statement about acceptable levels of behavior, not just by removing a program that has such gross violations that it has nowhere to hide, but by replacing it with a program that at least ostensibly tries to maintain a sterling reputation. Especially when it comes to something like this.
I CAN'T be the ONLY one thinking this. Right?
Casey Anthony: Buckeye fan.
July 23rd, 2012 at 10:45 AM |
I'm very, very angry with
I'm very, very angry with
I'm very, very angry with PSU, and think they got perhaps less than they deserved.
But I don't see Notre Dame as a viable conference member - in fact, they'd be like Texas in the former Big 12: difficult at best, and arrogant at worst.
Now that the sanctions have come down from the NCAA and will also come down from the B1G, I think the obligation of the conference also includes helping PSU through this, if they remain in the conference.
I honestly don't like the idea of a feeding frenzy on PSU players. It's like raiding a corpse.
The last thing I want to think about is adding another conference member.
July 23rd, 2012 at 9:54 AM |
Like Jesse Palmer is saying
Like Jesse Palmer is saying
Like Jesse Palmer is saying right now on the Mothership, Bill O'Brien and co. have a big period of work coming up here. How does one try and hang on to those kids that are currently enrolled and were going to play football?!. Over/under on how many leave...
July 23rd, 2012 at 11:09 AM |
Current players? I say 9.
Current players? I say 9.
Current players? I say 9.
July 23rd, 2012 at 9:55 AM |
Wow, much harsher than I
Wow, much harsher than I
Wow, much harsher than I expected.
Will be interesting to see how the Paterno loyalists react to the vacated wins, which goes right to the heart of his claim to greatness.
Third generation Michigan alum
July 23rd, 2012 at 9:56 AM |
It's not the Death Penalty
It's not the Death Penalty
Like Emmert said, if you take away the football season it affects so many other people. So much staff and outside employees rely on football to support their families.
It's not the same as the death penalty.
“True loyalty is that quality of service that grows under adversity and expands in defeat. Any street urchin can shout applause in victory, but it takes character to stand fast in defeat. One is noise — the other, loyalty.”
July 23rd, 2012 at 10:01 AM |
It's not the Death Penalty
It's not the Death Penalty
Like Emmert said, if you take away the football season it affects so many other people. So much staff and outside employees rely on football to support their families.
It's not the same as the death penalty.
“True loyalty is that quality of service that grows under adversity and expands in defeat. Any street urchin can shout applause in victory, but it takes character to stand fast in defeat. One is noise — the other, loyalty.”
July 23rd, 2012 at 11:06 AM |
How do you double post
How do you double post
As a reply?
"I love him, he's a great coach, he's a great mentor, he's a great friend. He's every single thing you want a college coach to be, and he does it flawlessly." -David Molk
July 23rd, 2012 at 9:56 AM |
I bet most of the upper
I bet most of the upper
I bet most of the upper classman players will stay. The guys with 3 or 4 years left will see heavy attrition. I wouldn't be surprised to see the Big10 remove the in-conference scholarship restriction for transfers. They just might cap it at something like 2 or 3 scholarship transfers per school. Michigan is already almost full, so schools that are behind in 2013 recruiting will win big.
July 23rd, 2012 at 9:56 AM |
Big Ten to announce sanctions
Big Ten to announce sanctions
at 11 am
Omnes i facere est vincere
July 23rd, 2012 at 9:56 AM |
Ross Douglas Decommits
Ross Douglas Decommits
Penn St. already lost a commit.
“True loyalty is that quality of service that grows under adversity and expands in defeat. Any street urchin can shout applause in victory, but it takes character to stand fast in defeat. One is noise — the other, loyalty.”
July 23rd, 2012 at 9:58 AM |
8m Chris Anderson
8m Chris Anderson
Chris Anderson Big 10 handing down their own sanctions on PSU at 11AM ET.
And when we play as a team, when the old season is over, you and I know it’s going to be Michigan again. Michigan!
July 23rd, 2012 at 10:13 AM |
More Sanctions, Wow
More Sanctions, Wow
At 11 am we're going to the show the world we're a top research conference and have found a way to make a corpse still feel pain...
July 23rd, 2012 at 10:03 AM |
Is there anybody left in the
Is there anybody left in the
Is there anybody left in the Leaders Division that is eligible to play in the Big Ten Championship game this year?
Michigan vs. Indiana in the 2012 B1G Championship game. I can't wait.
M'Dog
July 23rd, 2012 at 10:13 AM |
I'm conflicted about this. On
I'm conflicted about this. On
I'm conflicted about this. On one hand, there's no way for the NCAA to hand down a punishment that doesn't have massive collateral damage to a lot of people that had nothing to do with what happened. I'm glad to see they went out of their way to reduce the pain for current players, but there's no question they all still get screwed. Can't imagine being a kid in that position, living the dream playing college ball for a team and teammates you probably love and then either have to choose to start over somewhere else or play out your career under nuclear fallout.
On the other hand, as other posters have mentioned, I can't imagine a more clear cut, smoking gun example of loss of institutional control. When your head coach, athletic director, and president all agree to cover-up a heinous crime to save bad publicity for your football program, it's pretty clearly a culture of winning above all else. Granted the crime they covered up was not football related, and that I guess is the only argument that the NCAA doesn't have jurisdiction, but I still think sanctions are justified.
Maybe the only bright spot to come out of all this mess is that $60 million dollars that would otherwise have gone to perpetuate the football juggernaut at PSU now goes towards helping stop child abuse.
July 23rd, 2012 at 10:38 AM |
And the REALLY sad part:
And the REALLY sad part:
How much damage could have POSSIBLY been done in they would have just come out in 1998? PSU would have lost 5-6 extra football games TOPS, and a heinous crime could have been avoided. It is sad to see how disillusioned those men had become.
Homer? Who is Homer? My name is Wolverine Incognito.
July 23rd, 2012 at 10:10 AM |
Delusion.
Delusion.
This dude has it:
I'm done. THROUGH with Penn State.
Our leaders have failed us. The Freeh report was all conjecture, and there is damn near nothing to tie Joe Paterno or the athletic department in with this entire mess. Yet, our leaders accepted it without even bothering to READ it first. And they’re going to blindly accept these NCAA sanctions. And they continue to let Joe Paterno be the main scapegoat here.
What is going on? Its one thing for the media to rush to judgement, but our own leaders? This DOES smell like a cover-up, but not one by Paterno. No, this is a TRUE cover-up by the Board of Trustees. They are more than willing to make this a “football scandal” so nobody digs deeper into the REAL scandal. This is not a failure of a football culture, this is a POLITICAL scandal. Where is the investigation into the relationship between the Board of Trustees, Harrisburg and The Second Mile? MILLIONS in campaign donations and state grants were exchanged between the Second Mile, politicians and key Board members – THAT is the scandal and THAT is what the Board doesn’t want to come out. And THAT is why they allow the football team to be the scapegoat.
The Board of Trustees has something to hide. And I will NOT be a part of my alma mater again until they are all removed from those positions.
I said - not good enough.
July 23rd, 2012 at 10:17 AM |
Sad.
Sad.
So sad.
However, hopefully this idiot stays true to his word and stays away forever. He is a big part of the problem and it's good to see these sanctions are already taking affect.
“True loyalty is that quality of service that grows under adversity and expands in defeat. Any street urchin can shout applause in victory, but it takes character to stand fast in defeat. One is noise — the other, loyalty.”
July 23rd, 2012 at 10:17 AM |
I believe they removed
I believe they removed
the right people a few months ago. The coverup was conducted by those administrators who felt the football program was far more important than the lives of children.
They got crushed. Big blow for Penn St and the B1G. The death sentance probably would have been better.