yes plz
Penn State Punishment Open Thread--UPDATE: NCAA Punshment--$60M Fine, Lots of Scholarships
July 23rd, 2012 at 6:50 AM | 
Yes...
Yes...
July 23rd, 2012 at 4:31 AM |
I would urge caution in regards to PSU fans
I would urge caution in regards to PSU fans
There have undoubtedly been a huge number of comments by PSU alumni and fans on blogs and websites. Many of them will make most of the rest of us think the PSU fanbase is full of people who have no clue and/or are complete idiots. But I think if this was Michigan and I was watching our football programs be burned to the ground by outside forces I would almost certainly react in a bad way because of the amount of anger and rage that I would be filled with. Most of us on mgoblog have a lot emotionally invested in Michigan football, for better or worse. It is the same for PSU and that is being torn down around them.
I suspect many of the fan base will come back to a better place after a couple of months, maybe years. But a little understanding of the collateral damage on this issue would be nice. PSU is in for sanctions that are worse than the death penalty. Keep in mind how outraged you would be in their shoes, even if it is wrongly placed.
July 23rd, 2012 at 4:57 AM |
"Outside forces"?
"Outside forces"?
Don't think so...
Harmon40 "When the 'ol season is over, you and I know: it'll be Michigan again...MICHIGAN!"
July 23rd, 2012 at 6:56 AM |
lot of people really hurting out there;
lot of people really hurting out there;
most in early phases of denial, etc. True that the object should not be to punish THEM. I'd find it damned hard to fairly determine what punishments should be levied--here while we are still in the heat of such a terrible moment--and would be pleased if the B1G announced it was taking its time, working to be fair to all concerned.
July 23rd, 2012 at 7:42 AM |
If such a terrible scandal happened here,
If such a terrible scandal happened here,
I would very much like to think my outrage wouldn't be misdirected.
I have a hard time sympathizing with their fans whose strongest outrage has been directed at how Paterno was treated (how dare they fire him by phone), and those advocating punishment for their football program.
While I have no doubt we have fans that would react in a similar fashion, I would hope (and expect) that it would be obvious that you guys would be a small minority.
Eating is murder.
July 23rd, 2012 at 6:03 AM |
CNN source: Penn State's
CNN source: Penn State's
CNN source: Penn State's punishment is harsher than the death penalty. Was not the result of negotiation. Includes provisions to minimize impact on current players.
http://www.cnn.com/2012/07/22/us/penn-state-paterno-statue/index.html?sc...
Galileo was also chastised.
July 23rd, 2012 at 8:21 AM |
The Fine Itself
The Fine Itself
"Penn State University will be hit with fines in excess of $30 million as part of "significant, unprecedented penalties" expected to be announced Monday by the National Collegiate Athletic Association, a source familiar with the case told CNN on Sunday."
If that is the number, that's about twice what their athletic department makes after expenses in a given year, so that alone is pretty crippling potentially, at least when it comes to offering scholarships and keeping facilities competitive. If it is closer to the larger number that has floated around, which is $60 million, then they will have every dime spoken for and then some for a long time, which in itself seems like it would be as bad as scholarship reductions (short of reducing the scholarships by X per year anyway on top of any inability to financially support them, of course).
"Funny isn't it, how naughty dentists always make that one fatal mistake."
Follow the random tweets of a Michigan alum - http://twitter.com/#!/LorneEC3
July 23rd, 2012 at 6:14 AM |
beware
beware
Mr. Emmert may look cuddly, but he's very fierce.
"500 channels and nothing but cats."
July 23rd, 2012 at 9:09 AM |
He's also an effing joke...
He's also an effing joke...
He doesn't do a damn thing to OSU, UNC, Oregon for actually breaking the rules of the NCAA rule book. He doesn't punish Miss St or Auburn even though they know that Cecil was shopping his son around like a whore because "they don't have a rule for that" but now all of a sudden he decides to go all Roger Goodell and be the commission of the NCAA and unilaterally had down sanctions. Wha?? That's never been the job of the NCAA president and never will be - in the words of a former NCAA chair:
"The purpose of the NCAA is to keep a level playing field among schools and to make sure they use proper methods through scholarships and etcetera," the chair said. "This is not a case that would normally go through the process. It has nothing to do with a level playing field. It has nothing to do with whether Penn State gets advantages over other schools in recruiting or in the number of coaches or things that we normally deal with."
The former chair said as an example the NCAA didn't get involved in the murder of Yeardley Love, a women's lacrosse player at Virginia, by her former boyfriend, a male lacrosse player at Virginia.
WTF is the NCAA doing here? Yeah, that's fine that they sanction them but how on God's green earth are you going to have any respectability when you pick and choose when to enforce rules and then when something happens that hasn't broken any of your rules you pass out a harsher punishment without any legal precedent (reminder that neither the NCAA or the Freeh report have any subpoena power at all).
Sporting news sums it up really well:
July 23rd, 2012 at 9:42 AM |
As stated in previous threads on this subject...
As stated in previous threads on this subject...
This line of reasoning doesn't make a whole lot of sense. If this had come out sooner, players would have left and PSU would have had a lot of trouble recruiting. Therefore, the cover-up *did* give PSU a competitive advantage, and it falls under the NCAA's purview. The cover-up is what the NCAA should really be taking aim at here.
July 23rd, 2012 at 6:59 AM |
Small, Still Missed Opportunity
Small, Still Missed Opportunity
"NCAA President Mark Emmert wrote a letter to Penn State President Rodney Erickson in November that included four questions he wanted the university to answer. According to the source, the NCAA felt the questions were answered by the Freeh report and therefore it could act before the university responded."
One of the small but perhaps more telling ways in which Penn State dropped the ball is right here. They were given ample chance to be at least somewhat self-effacing about what happened, and I imagine that such openness might have been taken into consideration to a certain point as it would have been one of the uncounted millions of things they could and should do (if nothing else, it would have been evidence that, at least on the surface, they now recognized the flaws in the university culture which made this possible). It probably wouldn't have factored into the severity of any penalty, but there would at least be something minutely (key word there) encouraging about the answers coming from the source.
In the end, they could not muster sufficient transparency (or they were advised that any answer was a bad idea - we'll never know, I imagine) and must now await their fate from the NCAA this morning. It is amazing that the only "admission" of blame they have made to date really are the removal of the Paterno statue and a statement that they will not appeal the NCAA's decision. In most respects, they've essentially done the bare minimum, and in many cases, only at the urging of others.
Of course, when an entire campus is in such denial and you have fans taking this as far as a passion play (per a link to a PSU blog in another thread), "self-effacing" is far too much to ask and introspection is simply not happening.
"Funny isn't it, how naughty dentists always make that one fatal mistake."
Follow the random tweets of a Michigan alum - http://twitter.com/#!/LorneEC3
July 23rd, 2012 at 7:24 AM |
PSU commissioned the Freeh
PSU commissioned the Freeh
PSU commissioned the Freeh report. If anything, that was PSU answering the questions, not just Emmert deciding he had enough information.
Want a winged helmet hat? See this post: Link
July 23rd, 2012 at 8:55 AM |
Fair Enough
Fair Enough
Thank you for the correction there.
I still believe that, if the release of Freeh Report had been followed by some more proactive changes by Penn State, such as asking for the resignation of the Board Of Trustees, then they look like they at least acknowledge what their failure to act or demand accountability from leadership caused. Instead, you have the chairperson of that board entrenched in the belief that "consistency is important" on the Board Of Trustees. To that point, here's an interesting editorial piece from PennLive - link - that underscores something that many of us have said here; the right thing to do - one of the many, many right things to do, in their case - would be to institute a clean break at the board level and start over with new leadership and better oversight.
"Funny isn't it, how naughty dentists always make that one fatal mistake."
Follow the random tweets of a Michigan alum - http://twitter.com/#!/LorneEC3
July 23rd, 2012 at 9:01 AM |
I agree with you. My fear
I agree with you. My fear
I agree with you. My fear with any NCAA penalties is that it won't be enough, no matter how harsh, to get rid of the BoT. The same trustees who, right after the Freeh report came out, were making statements that the statue would never come down. (Obviously, they were wrong, but anyone who could say that immediately after the report needs to go.)
Want a winged helmet hat? See this post: Link
July 23rd, 2012 at 10:15 AM |
True, but the board members
True, but the board members
True, but the board members saying that are the ones the PSU fans want to keep. They want to get rid of the ones who fired JoePa and backed the Freeh report.
July 23rd, 2012 at 7:16 AM |
I wish
I wish
Emmert had the balls to punish teams from the $EC for all the crap that goes on in that conference the way he is going punish Penn State.
July 23rd, 2012 at 8:08 AM |
you cant be serious
you cant be serious
Sec schools buy players hookers, cash, homes, and cars, Penn state harbored children sex crime criminals. apples to oranges comparison!
July 23rd, 2012 at 8:10 AM |
I don't think he was saying
I don't think he was saying
I don't think he was saying they're the same, but that when it comes to SEC manners, he wishes the NCAA would take a more hands on approach
If you're doing nothing, how do you know when you're finished?
July 23rd, 2012 at 8:17 AM |
i can appreciate that
i can appreciate that
but we know the sec is a cash cow that will continue to operate with impunity. But lumping cheaters with pedophiles at this sensitive time makes any transgressions committed by the sec look tame in comparison.
July 23rd, 2012 at 8:22 AM |
What is with "flamebaiting"
What is with "flamebaiting"
What is with "flamebaiting" stuff like this? I swear there are people out there who neg everything in sight on this topic that doesn't conform to a specified level of OUTRAGE. As if wishing the NCAA would take a hard line on the SEC is tantamount to downplaying sexual assault.
"We've beaten Michigan the last four years. So where's the threat?"
- Mark Dantonio
Blogging the Virginia Cavaliers at http://fromoldvirginia.blogspot.com/<
July 23rd, 2012 at 8:27 AM |
dont know anything
dont know anything
about the flamebaiting, but i cant even comprehend in my feeble mind, why recruiting violations and child rape are even in the same discussion
July 23rd, 2012 at 8:36 AM |
There'll be all sorts of
There'll be all sorts of
There'll be all sorts of discussions about things that aren't child rape: the effect of the sanctions on recruiting, how the NCAA approaches future violations of any kind, lots of things. Child rape is terrible but it doesn't have to be treated with such reverence that nothing else can be discussed in conjunction with the whole situation. Nobody is implying that recruiting violations are an equal crime just by talking about them.
"We've beaten Michigan the last four years. So where's the threat?"
- Mark Dantonio
Blogging the Virginia Cavaliers at http://fromoldvirginia.blogspot.com/<
July 23rd, 2012 at 8:15 AM |
Recruiting violations pale in
Recruiting violations pale in
Recruiting violations pale in comparison to child rape, yes, but I really don't like the idea that we should be OK with letting schools like Miami and UNC off the hook just because they didn't harbor a sexual predator. Just because PSU has the worst crime of all doesn't mean they should be the only ones punished heavily.
"We've beaten Michigan the last four years. So where's the threat?"
- Mark Dantonio
Blogging the Virginia Cavaliers at http://fromoldvirginia.blogspot.com/<
July 23rd, 2012 at 8:21 AM |
Nowhere
Nowhere
in my post did I say they were equal. I simply wish Emmert would be heavy-handed with SEC punishments.
July 23rd, 2012 at 8:59 AM |
As much as I detest the SEC
As much as I detest the SEC
I don't even think it is comparing apples to Oranges. It is more like comparing apples to giraffes. The two things are not even remotely similar. one is breaking the rules of a governing body for atheltics, while the other is breaking federal and states laws by harboring, in-turn condoning, a sexual predator.
July 23rd, 2012 at 7:28 AM |
Jay Paterno knew?
Jay Paterno knew?
He is a turd.
[Caved troll is caved. Sorry, Mobile app users.]
July 23rd, 2012 at 8:00 AM |
Regardless of what I think
Regardless of what I think
Regardless of what I think they deserve, I think they'll get a heavy dose of bowl bans and scholarship reductions at the level above USC.
Less than they deserve (in my opinion).... maybe I'm just cynical, but I don't see the NCAA having teeth to enact a punishment enough to create a cultural shift.
Third generation Michigan alum
July 23rd, 2012 at 8:04 AM |
I am not sure if I want to
I am not sure if I want to
I am not sure if I want to live in a world where what Stephen A. Smith calls for becomes reality.
or uh, Duder, or El Duderino if you're not into the whole brevity thing.
July 23rd, 2012 at 8:38 AM |
I am setting my baseline
I am setting my baseline
I am setting my baseline expectations as USC / OSU-level bowl bans / scholly losses, and a hefty (~$50M) fine levied against the university.
"to make a complete evaluation off video w/o seeing guys in-person - I don't believe that at all." - Josh Helmholdt
July 23rd, 2012 at 8:39 AM |
Sporting News hits the nail on the head
Sporting News hits the nail on the head
The NCAA is a complete joke and they are doing this only because they want to look strong even though, according to their own previous practice, they have no jurisdiction here at all.
July 23rd, 2012 at 8:44 AM |
Sorry, but I thought that was
Sorry, but I thought that was
Sorry, but I thought that was a dumb article. By the logic in the article, the NCAA should forever remain toothless since they've been toothless in the past. How dare they change their operating procedure?
Really, if we listened to Hayes's reasoning, the NCAA can never change and precedent should dictate all. If anyone ever wants them to get serious about punishments, they have to start somewhere. Bashing them when they do start is horribly counterproductive.
"We've beaten Michigan the last four years. So where's the threat?"
- Mark Dantonio
Blogging the Virginia Cavaliers at http://fromoldvirginia.blogspot.com/<
July 23rd, 2012 at 9:00 AM |
How so?
How so?
When you pick and choose when to enforce your rules and when people break them you don't do a damn thing but when you want to save face and look like you have some power you do something that's not even in your jurisdiction? The only real thing the NCAA should and can do is LOIC - the fact that Emmert is going all Goodell on the situation just points out how people in power want only 1 thing - more power.
I think the courts should be handing out the punishment as this is a legal matter and the NCAA has nothing beyond LOIC they could realistically enforce according to their own by-laws but I know I'm in the minority on that. I really hope PSU appeals the penalties if they are stupid because the NCAA really doesn't have the authority to do what they are doing.
July 23rd, 2012 at 9:12 AM |
Then let Penn State challenge
Then let Penn State challenge
Then let Penn State challenge it in Court if they think it's illegal. Some actions by figures are just the right thing to do. The concept is no different then the Supreme Court creating exceptions in the Constitution for aggregious Civil Rights violations against blacks in the south during the 50s and 60s.
"because character wins in life and character wins on the football field....." 1-11-11
July 23rd, 2012 at 9:14 AM |
I would agree with "picking
I would agree with "picking
I would agree with "picking and choosing" if the NCAA had a pattern of coming down hard and then taking it easy for the same rules violations. This is obviously unique, for one, and for two, being "lenient" and then becoming harsher is not "picking and choosing."
And how is this not in their jurisdiction? The NCAA is an association of member schools. Penn State is a member school. Claiming they don't have jurisdiction is like claiming, oh, say, the UAW or the USMC have no jurisdiction to punish their members too. There's a bylaw requiring ethical conduct. PSU is obviously in violation of that. What don't you get about that?
"We've beaten Michigan the last four years. So where's the threat?"
- Mark Dantonio
Blogging the Virginia Cavaliers at http://fromoldvirginia.blogspot.com/<
July 23rd, 2012 at 9:34 AM |
"Special Jurisdiction"
"Special Jurisdiction"
They said it themselves they didn't have it. They just made that sh!t up to save face. PSU should have been brought before the infractions committee for LOIC and would have likely been punished that way but it would have been done following the process that was established by the NCAA. This is akin to refusing to allow a criminal from having a jury.
Also, they aren't consistent at all - look at USC and then look at all the other ones that they have done nothing about. What about the MURDER of a UVA lacrosse player by another Lacrosse player - I'm sure as a UVA fan you're familiar with that. What did the NCAA do about that? Nothing, not a d@mn thing. You can't pick and choose and they picking and choosing the the punishments they just passed down at INSANE and I really do feel bad for all those kids who dreamt of playing for PSU, dreamt of playing in Beaver stadium in front of a crowd of 100k+ and because a handful of immoral idiots didn't do what they should have PSU is effectively killed for 10 years. What's worse is I read that PSU agreed to the punishment - this stinks of a disgusting dictatorship that bears no resemblence to anything involving the due process this country was founded on.
July 23rd, 2012 at 9:56 AM |
So there can never a
So there can never a
So there can never a settlement in court? Basically, that's what PSU did. The NCAA "charged" them back in November 2011 with a Notice of Inquiry. By not fighting the punishments, they are settling out of court. They don't want this out in the public anymore so they took what was offered by the authority (NCAA). There was "due process", but not like it is in the court.
BTW - I appreciate the sympathy for the players who have dreamt of playing at Beaver Stadium (they still can). You have to remember that these kids are getting a free education to play a game. They can transfer. They still play for PSU. If this is the worst thing that happens to them in their life, well, you can finish that statement.
Tradition is something you can't bottle. But it is there to sustain you when you need it most. I've called upon it time and time again.
July 23rd, 2012 at 10:28 AM |
You find me one single
You find me one single
You find me one single instance of UVA hiding the murder or protecting the killer and I will let you draw that parallel. Til then, fuck off.
"We've beaten Michigan the last four years. So where's the threat?"
- Mark Dantonio
Blogging the Virginia Cavaliers at http://fromoldvirginia.blogspot.com/<
July 23rd, 2012 at 11:15 AM |
Decisive points
Decisive points
By writing out "fuck", as opposed to some cutesie character-substituted version of a profanity like "sh!t" or "d@mn", you automatically win the argument. That, and you make much better points; the UVA analogy is absurd (Penn St. is not getting hammered for the crimes of Sandusky, but for the absolutely unconscionable conduct involved in the cover-up of these crimes), and the idea that the NCAA in dealing with its member institutions is beholden to the same form of due process spelled out in the US Bill of Rights is totally off-base.
July 23rd, 2012 at 8:43 AM |
It's 5:41 AM...I'm
It's 5:41 AM...I'm
It's 5:41 AM...I'm up
Curious as to the penalties
If you are at work you can watch here
http://twitter.com/PeteThamelNYT/statuses/227383199540596736
"RT @ESPN_BigTen: If you want to watch the news conference live, check it out here ... es.pn/NLX0Ci"
July 23rd, 2012 at 8:57 AM |
Only if you have an approved
Only if you have an approved
Only if you have an approved internet provider.
Want a winged helmet hat? See this post: Link
July 23rd, 2012 at 9:00 AM |
Other links are up on CBS
Other links are up on CBS
Other links are up on CBS Sports if that link doesn't work.
July 23rd, 2012 at 9:04 AM |
Thank you, that one works!
Thank you, that one works!
Thank you, that one works!
Want a winged helmet hat? See this post: Link
July 23rd, 2012 at 8:58 AM |
http://twitter.com/DanWet
http://twitter.com/DanWet
http://twitter.com/DanWetzel/statuses/227386903618531328
"If this was a SEC school, fans would definitely be tailgating before the NCAA announcement"
July 23rd, 2012 at 8:59 AM |
It's 8:59am
It's 8:59am
And away we go!!!!
July 23rd, 2012 at 9:06 AM |
- 4 yr postseason ban
- 60
- 4 yr postseason ban
- 60
- 4 yr postseason ban
- 60 mil fine
- Wins from 1998-2001 VACATED
July 23rd, 2012 at 9:09 AM |
2011
2011
2011
Harvard: The MICHIGAN of the East
We're not arrogant, we're just better.
July 23rd, 2012 at 9:10 AM |
That's it?
That's it?
That's it?
July 23rd, 2012 at 9:12 AM |
No scholly losses...agree.
No scholly losses...agree.
No scholly losses...agree. Penn State must be breathign a sigh of relief.
Bowl ban hurts, but scholly losses would have been crippling.
Never mind; they are getting obliterated (see below). Is NCAA going to salt the turf of beaver stadium as well?
July 23rd, 2012 at 9:11 AM |
My bad, now that I see it's
My bad, now that I see it's
My bad, now that I see it's 2011, that's a huge docking. Bowden now wins leader.
July 23rd, 2012 at 9:11 AM |
1998-2011
Plus 10 scholies a
1998-2011
Plus 10 scholies a
1998-2011
Plus 10 scholies a year for 4 (5?) years.
HOKEAMANIA RUNNIN' WILD
Formerly, TheLastProphet
Yes I am. They were enablers for child molestation. That is more important than the big ten's reputation.