This thread will probably disappear like the others. I think all thoughts are to be in the one thread.
Penn State Punishment Open Thread (part 2)
Why? So we can take time to go to the 5th page? This thread should stay.
The MODs seem to think differently. That's why.
is devon still at psu still? if so thats a body on the dline i wouldnt mind having.
Change your "comments per page" setting and you won't have to go to the fifth page.
If the B1G drops the hammer, I'd like this one to stay. One thread for the NCAA event and one for the B1G event.
Just continued. The other one has gotten too big...we do the same thing with every other thread that is 300 posts+
Also, the stuff on the B1G is coming out now.
I hope not honestly, once an open thread breaks 250-300 posts it becomes hard to sift through. And it's twice as annoying in a situation like this when new important information keeps coming out.
PSU will be down for ten years.
at least! they may never return
really? i doubt that.
I honestly think it will be more. We know Michigan and OSU will be the top dogs in recruiting every year for the forseeable future. With how good Sparty has been and the recent success of Wiscy, PSU might very well be on par with Minnesota and IU. You add in Nebraska and with PSU losing multiple scholarships, it could very well take longee than 10 years to dig themselves out of this mess.
Agree; think it is more like 12-15. They might get back some elite recruits from PA sooner. But nationwide kids have to be toddlers now to even have possibility to not be affected by this dark cloud over institution and you know parents are going to be uneasy. This wasn’t a payoff or illegal athlete advantage. This was the leaders of an institution sheltering and facilitating a sick individual.
This is just an expensive slap on the wrist. PSU should be expelled, no if's, and's, or but's about it. I don't care if there is no replacement or if it means we get rid of divisions. PSU is unworthy of the Big Ten name and brand. Send 'em off to die in the MAC, the Big East, or the FCS.
The hit from the Big Ten is a nice little added sting.
Not enough. If they took the TV money on top of the bowl money, I think that would be sufficient. Though I still think looking at expulsion down the line is a good idea. Doing it now, right before the season starts, would be disastrous.
From a recruiting standpoint, the main beneficiaries will be Ohio State, ND and Michigan I bet. Ohio State will be top recruiter in Pennsylvania, and that will also open more spots for Ohio and Pennsylvania kids for UM and ND. MSU should benefit as well.
It probably won't hurt the Big East either.
Yeah, Pitt is just trying to gear its program back up and was just handed Western PA on a platter for recruiting. I'd imagine the ACC will move into NY, NJ, and Maryland to take over PSU territory as well.
This is HUGE present dropped in WVU, Pitt and Syracuse laps. All trying to strengthen themselves for entry into new conferences now have their main competition for state of PA all but eliminated for years. Bolden is definitely gone. (Rob, of course, not Joe. /s) AZ has already been in contact with him.
The northern part of the ACC (north of NC, really) already recruits NY, NJ, PA, MD, etc. That's the happy hunting ground for UVA, VT, Md, and BC. Really, UVA has as many head-to-head battles with PSU as with any other school, even VT, so PSU disappearing outside the state of PA (which is what I think will happen) is a huge benefit.
I can really see teams like Bosie St and South Florida reaping all the benefits.
are already available on bigten.org.
Penn state is censured, banned from big ten championship for four years, probation and their share of bowl revenue will go to victims.
From the BTN website:
Here are the conference’s additional sanctions on Penn State:
- Censure: The accepted findings support the conclusion that our colleagues at Penn State, individuals that we have known and with whom we have worked for many years, have egregiously failed on many levels—morally, ethically and potentially criminally. They have failed their great university, their faculty and staff, their students and alumni, their community and state—and they have failed their fellow member institutions in the Big Ten Conference. For these failures, committed at the highest level of the institution, we hereby condemn this conduct and officially censure Penn State.
- Probation: The Big Ten Conference will be a party to the Athletic Integrity Agreement referenced in the NCAA release, and will work closely with the NCAA and Penn State to ensure complete compliance with its provisions over the 5 year term of the Agreement.
- Ineligibility: As referenced in the NCAA release, Penn State’s football team will be ineligible for postseason bowl games. It will also be ineligible for Big Ten Conference Championship Games for four years, a period of time that runs concurrently with the NCAA postseason bowl ban imposed this morning.
- Fine: Because Penn State will be ineligible for bowl games for the next four years, it will therefore be ineligible to receive its share of Big Ten Conference bowl revenues over those same four years. That money, estimated to be approximately $13 million, will be donated to established charitable organizations in Big Ten communities dedicated to the protection of children.
I complained about the removal of secondary PSU threads in the other open thread, but I don't think this is the solution either. The are a number of interesting/important angles of this - player transfers (or recruits' commitment switches), Big Ten division balance, the fairness of the penalties, breaking news, etc. - and those conversations should be teased apart from one another. Otherwise, it's an unreadable mess. This thread just prevents you from having to click "last page" in the other thread.
The solution in that case is to blockquote the text you're replying to. You can do that by going to the plain text editor (see the link below the message box) and typing <blockquote> before the quoted text and </blockquote> after.
While I enjoy the Herd usually, I was just listening to him on the way to work about an hour ago, and he was claiming that the rest of the Big Ten fans were taking joy in this punishment this morning when we shouldn't. Just shut it, Colin. Nobody is taking joy in PSU getting hammered by the NCAA (okay, not nobody but barely anyone that I see). No Big Ten fans have ever had an unhealthy hate for PSU like OSU fans do with Michigan.
Cowherd's an idiot. It's perfectly fine to be satisfied when someone who deserves punishment is punished. No one is celebrating the molestation of young boys; anyone who is celebrating is celebrating the extension of some kind of justice, however imperfect/incomplete/excessive/whatever it is.
You usually enjoy the Herd?!?!
Yes, I was going to neg him just for that, but then he did make an astute point; so he saved. Can’t see how anyone enjoys that blowhard. Radio/TV goes off with valenti, herd, and bayless.
So who wins/loses the 2010 game between PSU and OSU?
ceases to exist. It never happened. The attendees will forever have a blank spot in their memories where that day used to reside.
Wasn't that game sponsored by the creators of "The Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Miind?"
Looks like players will be allowed to transfer within the conference.
I would give a large sum of money to switch divisions with Ohio now. They're coming out of this in a great spot.
IMHO maybe just take the two best teams this year for the B1G champ game this year since the east is down two.
It's also in the best interest of the B1G. For compeitive balance sake, what if OSU and PSU finish 1-2? You've now got the #3 team playing from that division?
Is this standard practice, did Ohio State get their share last season?
Ohio did not have bowl money taken away last year or this year. This is a special PSU punishment.
Ohio is gona poach a few players Im sure and will be in a 2 horse race for a long time to come in their division. They certainly are going to make out pretty well
Can PSU still afford to start a hockey program? Pegula has covered the start-up costs, but can they afford to add another sport that is likely to be a big money loser for the first few years?
The 60 million fine is over a 5 year period. So yes they will still have hockey.
From the NCAA sanctions:
"No current sponsored athletic team may be reduced or eliminated in order to fund this fine."
Who's going to be paying that $60M fine? If the AD isn't going to pay for it by trimming up other sports and they certainly aren't going to save $60M on 10 scholarships a year then where is the rest coming from? The obvious answer it going to be the students either through increased ticket costs or possibly even an "athletic fee" imposed on tuition.
The $60 mil is to be paid over 5 years, so $12 mil per year. Last year they had profits of $30 mil.
The fine is imposed on the University, and they are going to have to find some way to pay it. Maybe from tuition money. Maybe from their $1.7B endowment.
There is going to be a bake sale. Cathy McGloin makes the best snickerdoodles.
Right, but this exactly my concern. The hockey team is planned, but are they defined as current? Have they handed out any LOIs yet? I think they'll be fine because obviously they have a very wealthy backer, but if the AD ends up in a serious crunch, hockey may be an attractive target.
They are currently in a ~$100MM hole, but they are likely looking at another huge number (low 9 figures?) to settle all the lawsuits. Plus the fine for violating the Clery act is going to be unprecedented. Obviously the University will pick up part of these costs, but the AD will be hit the hardest.
I'm sure they are considered current. The hockey team has a page on the Penn State athletic website. They will play their first varsity game in two and a half months, and have several incoming freshmen who signed letters of intent.
I'd forgotten that they were playing a year as an independent, thanks.
- We support the NCAA sanctions.
- No BTCG for four years.
- No bowl revenue for four years (~$13m).
I should've refreshed, before I sent...someone had the details posted.
$73 million for child abuse victims, prevention, etc.
It's AWFUL it had to come to this, but that is a lot of money and it's good that it's not going in the pockets of the NCAA or other B1G schools.
while serving on the jury for a trial, I was totally taken aback at the level of service these people do for our community. I cannot imagine helping kids to recount what happened to them, and then help them heal in the horrible situations on a daily basis.
I am ex-military, my service pales in comparison to what they do.
Hopefully the $73M gets to the clinics these people run, and helps children who could not otherwise afford to get the counselling and support they need to recover and move on.
as to the reasoning stated by the B1G. They said that since PSU is ineligible for the post season they won't get their Bowl money but last year when they passed out OSU's punishment the B1G specifically said they WOULD get the bowl money. Umm, huh? If you want to take their bowl money and put it in a fund because of what happened that's good and fine but their reasoning was because they can't go bowling and following that logic OSU should have had their $ pulled as well...
...the answer may be in this article. Link
In a nutshell, according to this, there is no rule in the Big Ten which prevents teams either on NCAA probation or under a postseason ban from collecting their share of the conference proceeds from bowls. That would, of course, make this portion of the penalty imposed by the conference on Penn State a real financial penalty in addition to the NCAA fine, and under these circumstances, I totally agree that they should not benefit financially from the bowls.The precedent then is that, while there is no rule, it is their money and they don't necessarily have to give you any if you're a member institution in serious trouble.
B1G says "the NCAA has punished you and you can't compete in the post-season. As such we're not going to give you a slice of the bowl money." In OSU's case it was "the NCAA has punished you and you can't compete in the post-season. Despite this we're still going to give you your slice of the bowl money."
If the B1G had come out and said "Because of the circumstances surrounding the post-season ban of Penn State the B1G will not allow PSU to get any of their bowl money. Instead that $ will be earmarked for..." I would have been fine with that but that wasn't their reasoning. It seems to me like B1G is just piling on when they've already set precedent that NCAA post-season sanctions have no bearing on us giving you cash they did just that. I thought it was total BS that OSU gets the cash when they announced it and now it makes even less sense.
Late to the party, but this feels excessive to me. I am definitely fine with the fines and the record expunging, but a four year bowl ban plus everything else will decimate this program for years. SMU has been a shell for decades now, and while PSU should be able to recover quicker, this is going to change the national landscape for a generation.
Smu is also in a shell because of the rise of the Big 12, had SMU been added to the Big 12 I doubt it would have taken this long to bounce back.
In addition, SMU took an extra year off voluntarily. They decided that a really strong football program competed with their goal of being a religious institution of higher education and dialed the football back. SMU is really bad example for this kind of thing given that they self imposed and opted to scale bak for other reasons.
Alabama is a much better example. They suffered for awhile, but they rebuilt. PSU is looking at least 7 years of having no functional depth chart, but they'll eventually rebuild.
They decided that a really strong football program competed with their goal of being a religious institution of higher education and dialed the football back.
No offense, but that's a load of hoo-ha (unless you're being sarcastic). By April of 1987 (penalties were announced in Feb) more than half of the team had transfered away, and plus they still didn't have a full-time head coach. The acting president said that the only way they could have played in 1988 was with walk-ons and a handful of athletic scholarship players and returning players, and cited a concern for placing those players into a situation where they faced "an undue risk of serious injury"
But in subsequent years, when SMU did have a football team, they made it harder to be competitive by keeping their admissions standards for athletes quite high.
So in short, SMU's decline can be attributed to any/all of several factors:
*The stigma of having gone through the death penalty
*Raising academic standards for football players
*Being denied entry into the Big 12 when the SWC folded
*Being a small school, with a small fanbase, that perhaps could never have won in the first place if it didn't cheat
PSU will have to deal with the stigma issue but not the others.
My wife is an SMU alum and she'll be the first to tell you that "high admission standards" and "SMU" don't belong in the same sentence. Now as for their grad programs - yes, those are very good but their undergrad programs are quite easy to get into (no harder than TCU and possibly even easier).
It's relative here. In a football context, high admissions standards means not taking anyone who meets the bare NCAA minimum.
No offense, but that's a load of hoo-ha (unless you're being sarcastic).
No, it's not. SMU de-emphasized football when it returned. They stopped playing in the Cotton Bowl and only funded it at a fraction of the levels that it had received previously. They did the same thing that LIU and CCNY and a bunch of the schools in the point-shaving scandal in New York did.
Illinois, IU and Purdue, have before them a golden opportunity to rise up (OK, maybe not IU, where football has never really mattered) and become what the Iowas, Wisconsins, MSUs and even Northwesterns of the B1G World have become---competitive. A bit of a 'vacuum" will now exist that one of them could fill, as PSU is taking a hit that will possibly take decades to recover from.
If a PSU player wanted to transfer in starting this year would we have room for them? I don't understand completely how this all works.
We do have a couple of scholarships available, but even if we did not, NCAA is considering (and it seems likely they will do it) not counting PSU transfers against the school they transfer to this year. But they will count next year. So if you are currently at 85 scholarships with 25 new incoming scholarships and take a PSU kid, you have 86 kids on scholarship and 26 new scholarships. Next year, you can only take up to 24 near scholarships and cannot have more than 84 total.
with a full or nearly full recruiting class isn't likely to take many PSU kids. This probably benefits the mid- and lower-tier teams who still have a lot of scholarships to give.
Limits the choices for a lot of these kids, but it's better than holding the 85 limit fixed.
Could take some Seniors (WR/DT's) if there are any willing for depth/gone at the end of the season.
any school can take any player as a transfer this year, even if it causes the school to go over the 85 scholarship mark. However, next year, you'd have to compensate by taking fewer players. So if 2 transferred here this year, we would have to take 2 less next year.
Hell... I would call for the end of the football program if we had a scandal like UNC is having right now.
The athletic program should only exist if it serves as a benefit to the institution. It is just and apendage, not the main body. It can always be excised when it becomes an embarassment.
I never watched a single college football game before I came to Michigan. I went to Michigan because of its academic reputation. Football was just an added benefit.
One thing that's missed through all of this is the atheletes on other sports ultimatley get the biggest shaft because football revenue fuels the entire department. The whole AD will sputter and unlike the football players, they won't recieve an unconditional release.
Alton posted this above.
From the NCAA sanctions:
"No current sponsored athletic team may be reduced or eliminated in order to fund this fine."
They will have to hit into that $1 billion+ endowment fund if need be.
You can say goodbye to any and all plans to upgrade ANYTHING until the football team starts making massive money. The football money isn't just about funding scholarships it's about keeping up the facilities. Take UM's football money away and while the basketball, softball, baseball (and God knows what else) are still funded they are also still playing in crappy stadiums and fields...
Everyone is losing in one way or another
but how many total scholarships are lost? Is it 90? 10-20-20-20-20. I keep reading 40 but that doesn't add up to me.
75 players on scholarship this year. 65 for the 4 years after. PSU may never take more than 15 in a class. Everyone at PSU may transfer and play right away or they may leave the team and remain on scholarship at PSU.
It's technically 80 scholarships (maximum 65 instead of 85 for 4 years from 2014 through 2017), but they can only have 15 incoming freshmen on scholarship in 2013 instead of 25, so that's why some people are saying 10, but it's not technically true--they could still offer 85 scholarships in 2013 if they give their extra 10 away to walkons who were on the team in 2012.
If Jerry Sandusky hadn't been a part of the 2nd Mile Charity, it would be one of the groups that would be getting money from the fines.
Looks like Bill O'Brien is gonna stick around....
and any semblance of a decent recruiting class for the next few years and gets curbstomped as a result, this is still probably better than any other gig he could get at the moment. I'm assuming he could be a coordinator somewhere, but right now he doesn't even have the appeal of being a former Penn State head coach to a smaller school. Plus, I don't think anyone is looking for a HC at the moment.
He's going to take his $1 million salary to do a job where he has pretty much no accountability for the on-field performance? I'm shocked I tell you, shocked.
If I were Bill I would take more opportunities to sleep in.
I've been reading through some Penn State blogs for the last few minutes. Wow, those people are absolutely delusional. It's shocking how few people there seem to believe what the Freeh report says, they seem to think it was a libelous attack against JoePa and Penn State football.
Reading BSD just makes my blood pressure peg out. No mention of justice for the victims or how maybe, just maybe, Joe Paterno let the institution down. How many countless young men suffered at the hands of Jerry Sandusky while Paterno and the PSU leadership looked the other way, and all the PSU faithful are worried about is that their Saturday morning tailgates won't be the same for the forseeable future. Selfish pricks, the lot of them!
I originally felt bad for Penn State, that the fanbase was a secondary victim in this whole affair, but after reading the fan comments, its easy to see how the whole culture of Paterno worship over there in Happy Valley was just an enabler for this whole ugly mess. The mentality needs to change over there, so just burn the whole fucking thing to the ground.
The Freeh report was nothing more than that - a report. Freeh had no supoena power and gave the report just on what he could get his hands on. We were pretty outraged about the Freep report that was based on some info they could just dig up so I can understand a bit how they would be pissed off about everyone just saying "Freeh report = truth." The fact is the Freeh report is no more "fact" than Three and Out is - it's a report written based on information available but without any supoena power.
Honestly, it's probably more damming than the actual truth but the truth is quite likely still very, very ugly...
Freeh did have unfettered access to the internal communications at PSU, and it is the emails that proved most damning. His report was far more throrough than any NCAA report would ever be. The current PSU president is leading them in a positive direction with the Freeh report and accepting the NCAA sanctions, doing what is responsible to come clean about the past and accept the consequences, but the Nittany Lion fans want to burn him at the stake. Their idea of leadership is still protect PSU and its reputation at any cost.
That brings up another popular topic on BSD that just gets me.
First, without subpoena and perjury power, interviews don't mean jack. But BSD folks still insist that without inteviewing JoePa, Shultz, Curley, and Spanier, the Freeh report means nothing.
These people have already lied to a prosecutor and grand jury (especially about not knowing the 1998 incident - that is clear from the emails), why would they all of a sudden provide the whole truth to some NCAA investigator? Hard evidence like emails are MUCH more important than an interview where they are likely to lie to cover their asses.
Second, BSD is under the delusion that if Curley and Shultz are not found guilty during the perjury trial, NCAA will have an egg on its face.
If we have found out ANYTHING during the whole steroid scandal over the last 4 or 5 years is that it is almost IMPOSSIBLE to find ANYONE with a decent lawyer to get a guilty verdict in a perjury charge. All you have to do is put "I don't recall" or "to my best recollection" on all of your answers and it is impossible to be guilty of perjury. Hell, Rafael Palmeiro wagged his finger at Congress and said "I did not take steroids" and they couldn't even bring the perjury charges against him when he failed steroid tests.
I fully expect Curley and Shultz to be found not guilty in their trial and Spanier will probably be spared as well.
That does not mean that what NCAA did today was not justified.
Can we have a serious conversation about adding ND, Pitt, or Missouri to the B1G to replace PSU? PSU has been a B1G flagship since they joined (multiple BCS games, conference championships, national brand, etc.) but they will not be anymore. Although they have been a member for 20 years that is not enough time to entrench them into the B1G as a team we can't get rid of.
To me these penalties are worse than a 1 year "death penalty" because most players could just redshirt the year they suspend play. But by limiting them to 65 scholarships and only letting them sign 15 each year over the next 4 years Penn State is now an FCS school playing in the B1G. Couple that with the financial hit they are taking and likely enrollment and other academically related issues that are coming up(loss of research funding, etc.) I don't think they represent the B1G brand anymore.
If we pick up ND then perhaps we can get the B1G-Pac12 scheduling agreement back since ND and USC/Stanford can hook up to play through that.
ND has shown no interest in joining the Big 10 since they turned the conference down a decade ago. They've decided that football independence is a core part of their program and many of their idiotic alumni/fanbase think that joining the Big 10 is tantamount to the end of their program's claim to be a "national program." ND's not happening.
But with the trend towards the super conferences and ND moving non-football sports to the Big XII you can't tell me that if the B1G offered they wouldn't seriously consider it. They have to view playing teams like Minnesota, Indiana, and Northwestern in a better light than playing Iowa State, Kansas State, and Texas Tech. Although I am not a ND alum.
It's a dick move on the academic side to kick them out at this point. I know I've said this in other threads, but look at things like the Penn State Hershey Medical Center and the like. Basically mid state PA is not that heavily populated and the state has spent the last decade building all the treatment around PSU. PSU brings in specialists and gives them access to labs in exchange for having them spend a few days at smaller centers doing treatment. Penn State Hershey for example just built a cancer center (you used to have to drive ot Philly or Baltimore to reach a decent one) and is working a children's cancer center now. This is all possible due to the CiC money that PSU now gets a piece of it. Kicking PSU out messes up a lot of that. It would likely force over expansion of Pitt's medical center (which is more of a west side of the state power) to cover the midstate.
We don't need them to be good in football. Michigan, Ohio, Nebraska, and Wisconsin will represent the B1G fairly well. Iowa and MSU also have their up years. PSU as a bottom feeder is no problem. The only reason they ever got a lot of press nationally is because of their massive fanbase that travels well. Well we just added Nebraska and got a new one of those.
If Penn State made a fuss over the penalities or goes for defiant to the end, I'm fine with kicking them out. They agreed to these sanctions though. When we let them in it was for better or worse. They have a lot of research, medical treatment, and other projects going on though and it doesn't seem right to screw all those things over just due to football. PSU football got hit and we can move on.
If we kick PSU out due to the fact they now suck at football all we do is prove we're just as insanely football centric as we criticize PSU for being. Football does not drive the bus in the B1G and never should.
You are right. The rise of Wisconsin and the addition of Nebraska more than covers PSU athletically. My concern is that PSU might be hard up to find the research money and highly qualified researchers you mention because of the scandal. In my mind this scandal hurts them in all facets of the university. I can see applications and enrollement drop at PSU especially in out-of-state student populations. PSU will be hurting from this not just the football program.
That's likely two years out roughly given how slow the federal government tends to move on this. The FBI and Department of Education are still active on this and it could awhile (Most Clery Act issues take about 2-3 years to handle, unless the school does a plea deal earlier on). The Clery Act violations could end up doing unpleasant things to PSU's endowment, accreditation, and ability to get research funds.
If any of those happen I would hope that they'd be telegraphed out in advance to give people on the research side at PSU time to find new landing spots (and let places like the Hershey Med Center align with a new university). If PSU hits a rock bottom and drags the other 12 CiC members down in terms of ability to get grants, then I'd support remove them so 12 other programs don't suffer heavily. We're all going to suffer a bit likely since PSU is toxic right now, but an official bullet to the head from the federal government would be a whole new level of suffering.
Anyway that is supposedly unlikely. My understanding is that when Spanier was still President and being rather defiant, PSU was on track to have a bullet put in their head on the academic side. The DoE telegraphed that fact to the Trustees and Spanier was removed and replaced with a guy who was cooperative. Unless PSU backslides, rumor central within the CiC seem to think the DoE will curtail furture research expansion of PSU while attempting to avoid destroying exsisting infrastructure.
The CiC process for this is that you get put on probation and then booted if you fail to recover. For example Nebraska just loss AAU status, but it's no big deal since they're expected to regain it in short order. If they fail to do that I'd imagine we'd look at probation followed by expulsion over a multiyear period. Give everyone a chance to wrap things up as opposed to a bolt out of the blue expulsion.
Not only do you write tremendous prose regarding your nuptials, you answered all my questions on this issue. I didn't even realize that there was a DoE investigation going on.
Why did Nebraska lose AAU status, anyway?
Although basically it was an accounting problem involving which kind of federal grants do and do not count towards the AAU dollar figure. From my understanding, if Department of Agriculture grants were part of the AAU formula, they would have been fine. There was also an issue about the number of faculty involved in different professional associations. Here's a NYT article about the issue.
Nebraska is a smallish state U in a farming-ranching state with modest resources and small population. Ag is a huge part of NU's mission, the AAU doesn't value that sort of research. and let's face it, there aren't many schools like NU in the AAU. Look at how few are represented west of the Missouri river--offhand, just Texas, Arizona, and Cal. Nebraska has certainly made strides in growing other research and is no slouch--think we're around #100--but the state is too sparsely populated and has nowhere near the resources to compete with most AAU schools.
It sorta ticked me off at first, but really we probably don't fit into that club. And it's kinda funny that right after bringing us in, a few of the B1G schools--supposedly Michigan and Wisconsin--voted against us, so AAU membership can't be too big of a deal.
The most frustrating part of these sanctions is that the Buckeyes benefit the most from them.
You can't tell me Dantonio ins't licking his chops to get after some Eastern OH, Western PA kids. Before I saw MSU regressing towards 6-6, 7-5 seasons but now I see them as having 8-4, 9-3 seasons.
The most frustrating part of these sanctions is that had to occur to teach people not to cover up child rape in the interests in football. The fact that one of our rivals might gain a recruiting advantage is nothing.
We're talking about the football aspects of this, so it DOES mean something. It's a given that no penalty could ever fairly pay for the atrocities Sandusky committed. We're not arguing the morality.
with full remaining eligibility. This is at least one good thing out of this mess. It will be interesting to see whether PSU stars like TB Silas Redd and others stick around or hit the trail.
Head coach Jay really worked hard the last ten years to pass Bowden. Joe sat in the press box shiting in his depends. It was all for nothing. Do you think Jay knew about the raping of little boys?
So, with approx. $13M lost from annual bowl revenue from the B1G and the $60M fine from the NCAA, PSU will essentially lose $112M to fines. If I read it correctly, it was also mentioned it has to come from football revenue. With the potential loss of fans attending the games due to their inability to win games, this seems like it will hurt more. Unless some booster decides to pay the fines.
My understanding is that the $13M is the estimated lost revenue over 4 years, not per year.
More than the loss of direct ticket revenue (I'm guessing they'll still be close to selling out their games, though they've lost some pricing power), I'd think they'd be stung by lost auxiliary revenues. Walking around town in a Penn St. football jersey is a tad less appealing than it was a year or two ago.
I would not be surprised to see their ticket sales drop precipitously in 2013. They won't have a good team, they won't be headed to a bowl, and some of their fans think their university sold the program out.
This year, they're in the clear because people already paid for tickets, but I'd bet there will be a lot of no-shows.
The comments on BSD are absolutely astounding. Total delusion.
That place is just plain sick. They're a giant advertisement for total elimination of PSU football and they don't even realize it. Every President/Chancellor in the B1G supports the NCAA. Other members of the NCAA voted to give Emmert the ability to be judge, jury, and executioneer (an expansion of power that could haunt those schools later). Yet to BSD is all lynch mob mentality. Their Board of Trustees are weak for refusing to fight this. It never occurs to them that a rational human being might read the Freeh Report and think "We deserve this." It never occurs to them all Paterno had to was tell McQueary "We're going to drive down to the police station and you're going to tell the officers what you saw."
with opinion on the penalties. Will he be shouted down from within this time?
Reading the threads on Black Shoe Diaries is a mostly depressing experience, as their fans react with denial, shock and anger. And then I saw a comment that made me crack up laughing: the observation that the Nittany Lions should still be able to defeat Ohio U. in the first game and thereby break the school's 108-game losing streak.
Their punishment isn't all that bad considering a bunch of children are going through a lifetime of pain.
I agree, obviously, but this is punishment being applied to those who are left behind after this mess. This was an error in judgment /inaction by leadership, and leadership has been replaced.
You can at least acknowledge that.
I'm sure the kids all feel much better now that the NCAA gave PSU a bowl ban.
Get a clue. This does nothing for those kids.
But it just might be a severe enough penalty to deter schools in the future from covering up criminal behavior.
Because the legal system doesn't have mechanisms to address this already? If you get busted doing this, there's pretty good chances that you won't be around to feel any effects from NCAA action.
This punishment is worst than the Death Penalty. After 4 years, they'll have a MINIMUM of 20 kids on that team as a walk on. Odds are more than that as kids in each class the next four years transfer/flame out. Penn State is dead for the next decade.
Kids who dreamed of playing B1G football but couldn't can now always go to PSU.
The amount of collateral damage that will impact the PSU community is unfortunate. While I understand that harsh punishment was called for in this case given the nefarious behavior of those involved I can't help but think the NCAA made their decision based heavily on public opinion and failed to give proper attention to the consequences of effectively decimating the football program for the next 20 years.
The economy in the entire area will suffer, students will almost certainly get a lower quality education, tuition will be raised and untold other reverberations will diminish the quality of life for innocent people for simply being associated with the school. Football is PSU's best source of income, and IMO the punishment should have weighed much more heavily on taxing the football program going forward, for potentially 20 years, in order to distribute as much money as possible into charities. Sure $73 million seems like a lot, but if they were instead forced to commit 25% of football revenue for 10-20 years and they football program wasnt destroyed by bowl bans and scholarship reductions than there would be significantly more.
Personally I would prefer that there was less priority on punishing the football program and more emphasis put on benefiting victims of related circumstances.
And While they're at it go ahead and remove Joe Paterno completely from college football/PSU existence.
Now go ahead and tell me how insensitive I am.
This is a huge boon for Ohio, opening up more recruits and weakening their division at the same time.
I agree with all of the penalties, but I think they should have be barred from playing football this year, in addition to everything else. Making those kids go out there and play is bordering on cruel and unusual punishment.
Think about it.
The amount of hate, and vitrol, and garbage that is going to be spewed at these kids is going to be unlike anything we've ever seen. Everywhere they go, Penn State is going to be accosted, shamed, and trashed. Most of that hate will be directed at the program, but it's the players who will bear the brunt of it.
The boos will be deafening, and all of the anger people have toward Joe Pa, and Sandusky will be wrongfully directed at the football team as a whole.
They're going to have to hire armed guards to protect the team on the road.
Penn State fans also might want to think about taking a year off from attending any road games. I shudder to think of what will happen to anyone wearing a PSU jacket in front of the wrong group of drunken fans. Imagine what will happen when Penn State wins a road game.
It could get really ugly out there.
No douIbt the PSU players and fans will face abuse this coming season from opposing fans, but I do think the sanctions the NCAA levied will go a long way in helping to ameliorate the feelings of anger and perhaps hatred most fans would otherwise feel toward PSU football. Fortunately they only have five away games this year, and Ohio State, which has the most psychotic fans in the B1G, is a home game.
I think the NCAA grossly overpunished Penn State. This is because it simply does not match reponses in other cases.
Roman Polanski is a famous and highly paid Hollywood dirctor, but he works in Europe. This is a because he raped a little girl and was convicted of the crime. He fled to Europe and makes movies there.
Hollywood not only pays him massive amounts of money, but they demand over and over that the conviction be set aside because he makes such good movies. None of us movie watchers complain about this or demand that the movies be burned and the studios be shut down.
JoePa simply covered up some child rape, no rape himself. For that the NCAA is destroying a man and a legendary sports program, and harming a bunch of current students who nothing to do with any wrong-doing?
This is simply unfair. Hollywood gets a pass, but a football program is ruined.
You're spot on. You absolutely convinced me.
I totally forgot that 2 wrongs make a right.