The only thing that pisses me off is we had 10 of 11 players returning from a top 10 offense and the OC can't seem to figure out how to use them.
Patience Needed with whole team and coaching staff
There's a thread for that.
Damn it, thought there was only an app...
Failing against technically sound and physical defenses. The problem is that UM does not have a quarterback who can run this offense. Borgas is making things worse by not installing more screens to help Denard get into a rhythm. Michigan really needs a QB who can run a pro style and throw consistently well whether on the run or from the pocket. Denard is an option quarterback. Nothing more, nothing less.
Except you'd have a quarterback with another year in the system, instead it's like Denard is a first year starter again. Instead of spending tons of time learning a new system, he could have been perfecting the old system and learning ways to beat the fundamentally sound defenses.
There's no reason that, with a passable gameplan, we should not have been able to put up 30-35 points today. Last year's offense combined with this year's defense (impossible, I know) would have won this game going away.
Denard's tendency to throw off his back foot and issues with accuracy would be there, the BIg Ten would have a year of data to use to defend Denard in the spread, and would have FItz elevated his game in the spread offense? I'd like to think so, but we will never know. There are too many variables for me to accept your assumption of the offense improving enough to beat MSU or Iowa.
That is not a vaguely technically sound defense. Unless you think IU and Minny have great offenses?
Minny just put up 24 on the best defense in the conference
What would have happened if Gray had been healthy against us? The big problem for Michigan is we have no big play threat any more. Denard is not a big play threat now. Teams have figured out how to stop him. The fact that he cannot complete a pass means every team we play for the rest of season will put 8 or 9 men in the box and dare Robinson to pass. With performances like has been having, especially against Iowa, that's a recipe for losses. We might beat Illinois, though I doubt it, but Nebraska and OSU should shut this offense down quickly.
Remember Posey comes back for OSU against us and he will make Miller look like an all-american. We don't have a fast enough, or big enough DB to stay with him. I don't want to be negative, but realistically I think we're looking at 7-5 again or maybe 8-4 if we get lucky.
If the play calling and the execution don't improve dramatically, next season might be a losing record with the schedule.
What would happen of gray is healthy against us? We win by 5 touchdowns instead of 8. I'm already tired of this line of thinking....we kicked Minnesota's ass up and down the field, gray wouldn't have mattered much
And it was that way with a different offense as well, I recall. Round peg, square hole wasn't the problem then and it isn't now. Wonderfully talented qb who has his flaws when it comes to passing was and is. And a back up who isnt ready for this level of competition, as opposed to Tate, who almost bailed us out against Iowa last year, is another reason.
I agree I wanted to see a true passer today too, but we've got great talent at qb and in the coaches and some losses are inevitable in the first season. I'm taking them in stride.
that was NOT a top 10 offense! we sucked against any defense with a pulse. they won 0 games against ranked teams or event decent teams...mostly getting exposed as frauds when it mattered most...and collecting yards in garbage time.
Minnesota put up more points against both Iowa and MSU then we did. What ranked team have we beat this year? Have we even beat a decent team this year or are you counting ND who we got extremely lucky against as our punt passes couldn't be found by ND DBs.
We lost by two TDs against State and didn't move the ball hardly at all (not much different score wise, but much less yardage). It took a miracle and five ND turnovers to beat a team we had beaten the last two years.
You forget that it took an almost miracle to beat ND last year too.
The only thing that pisses me off is we had 10 of 11 players returning from a top 10 offense
This is only true if you count Stonum as a returning starter. It also overlooks the serious depth issues we have at QB, OL and TE. Last year we had more depth at all three of those positions. We could lose Denard and plug in Forcier. We could lose Koger and plug in Webb. We basically had three starting OTs last year. And so on. This year, the left side of our line is banged up, we have only one functional TE, and we have to hope and pray Denard never gets hurt because there's a colossal dropoff to Gardner.
People talk about this offense like it's unusually stacked with talent. I don't think it is. If anything, I'd say it's less talented than a typical Michigan offense over the past 30 years. How many sure-fire future NFL guys do we have? Lewan, probably. A few other guys have a shot (Molk, Koger, maybe Hemingway, maybe Denard at WR) but are hardly can't-miss.
There is no way you can say a team from the 80s would stand a chance against this year's team. The athletes from then are not even close to what we have today. Even the early 90s teams would have a difficult time against average teams from this era.
Mike Hart? Chad Henne? Chris Perry? Braylon Edwards? Great Michigan players, but not so much in the pros. I don't care about NFL guys. I care about what they do at Michigan. Where have all these sure fire NFLers been the last couple years that should have been here from two staffs ago? There was exactly one and he was a product of Mike Barwis and his own desire because under LC he was just an overweight going nowhere type.
That's been true since Lloyd's last year as a coach. Henne, Long, Super Mario, etc.
That was the last class we sent to the NFL. Every class since then has been nowhere near as talented.
Do you mean the "top ten offense" that had all those problems once the Big Ten season started? You mean that offense?
I totally agree. Borges is not a rookie coach, his horrific play calling and DR/DG QB flip flop plays are unacceptable. I have patience with every other facet of the program. I would feel better if Borges would man up and say he f...ed up and go back to tape from last year to implement the plays that we were successful with.
We can't complain, coaches have been awesome. But, man was the play calling frustrating today.
I resent the fact that anyone even feels the need to post this type of thing after the last three years.
what? we had almost no one in fold the last three years that wasn't an underclassman.
After three years of rebuilding, with that many returning starters on both sides of the ball and mostly UPPERclassmen on the field, we have every right to be pissed off.
Most expected improvement, not regression. We got it on D, not so much on O.
I hate perspective. But you are right. I just how to see denard improve for next year.
I would just like one big wr who will come get the ball instead of waiting on it.
And that was the problem with the pick at the end zone today. The receiver did not come get the ball and let the defender get position on it. Not as much Denard's fault as the wr who didn't come get it (aside from trying to pass into tight coverage). Glad someone else noticed that.
Patience is fine. But I think it is entirely reasonable to be pissed at this point when our playcalling on offense continually seems to go out of it's way to place our weaknesses on a pedestal. Why? How many bombs do you need to see out of Denard before you realize he can't make that throw? How many times do we need Devin to trot out there until we realize that he is not nearly the threat Denard is? Someone on another board posted something to the effect of Borges taking the B1G offensive POY and turning him into a liability.
I don't think anyone is overreacting by being pretty angry about our offensive incompetence. It isn't on the players; we have seen what they can do (see: 2010).
Chew up inferior opponents, struggle mightily vs inferior teams. It is the same pattern last year, but cut in a different fashion.
Iowa, Wisconsin, Illinois and Penn State last year. 4 touchdowns would have won the game today....10 returning starters. We are regressing on that side of the ball. I miss the spread.
You are judging last year's offense like it was a finished product, when this year it probably would have been improved upon.
That is the difference.
It is doing the same thing and that is the problem.
Oh you mean like those gems they produced against msu, wisconsin, iowa and osu?
What I wanted to see this year was a team that fought hard and gave itself a chance to win every game. So far thats what I have seen. Also, the defense makes plays. No longer do I fear a 3 and 22.
I am willing to bet that Michigan will win 2 of the next 3. And no matter what they will not get curb stomped by osu.
Chill people the coaching staff is building something.
I will take that bet six times a week and twice on Sundays.
You're overreacting. I'd give us at least a 50% chance in each of our last three games. We're about to play a Zook-coached team in its usual late-season swoon. This is followed by a one-dimensional Nebraska team that just lost at home to Northwestern, and then by an OSU team starting a true freshman quarterback.
not sure what your point is about Nebraska losing to Northwestern
no i think you are underreacting..
We will make Nathan SHCEUALUSE look like the next heisman throwing to Jenkins all day, and denard will be a turnover machine again, and take over as the leader in the FBS in interceptions..
What I wanted to see this year was a team that fought hard
That is what disappointed me the most today, they didn't play hard. UM didn't look like they were ready to play today, from Iowa's first series (TD) and UM's first series (dropped passes). Both sides of the ball lacked focus and energy.
This did not look like a team that was out to show everybody that they wouldn't fold like previous years. This was a very winable game and they didn't get after it.
But they were in those games last year and year before too. Need to actually win a game vs a decent opponent at some point.
which games were we "in" last year?
We were always playing from multiple scores back at or after halftime.
|Sat, Oct 9||
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|PROGRESSIVE GATOR BOWL|
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We were 2 scores back today in the 4th quarter. We were 1 score back in the 4th quarter last year in the 4th and 2 scores back against Wisconsin in the 4th quarter last year. The difference is the defense this year.
The largest deficit UM faced today was 11.
would brought home a victory. This offense is regressing.
One, that 28 was earned in garbage time. Two, the defense would have been worse. Rich's inability to hire a decent DC kills the speculation because while the offense may have been better the defense would surely have been worse.
In last year's Iowa game, we scored seven points with Denard playing QB. People forget that. Iowa held him in check. It was Tate Forcier who came off the bench at the end of the third quarter and gave the offense a lift. Denard didn't play any worse against Iowa this year than last year; we just no longer had Forcier around to step in.
Consistency will come with experience in the system. I feel as though we see both the level of play and consistency come in the next couple of years. Our Wolverines are a team on the upswing.
What do you not understand about this offense? Bill Walsh originated it and said it takes 3-4 years to perfect. Why in the hell would you want to use it at a college where your best players stay three maybe four years. It's a finesse offense (not MANBALL) that requires the QB and WRs to be on the same page and read the same thing or you get pick 6's like against State. It also requires an extremely accurate QB. Just about the stupidest style of offense that could have been brought here at this time given our personel.
You must be watching another game if you think we are running a real West Coast offense right now. Borges is still calling alot of spread plays because he's not a total moron. His playcalling hasn't been particularily good for some spurts this season but he isn't doing a terrible job. Bad execution by Denard, the receivers, and our beyond banged-up (and no-depth) Oline has been equally a part of the problem.
You're right of course, but I'm sick of waiting. I've been waiting since 2006 to win a championship, and all we've done is suck.
I usually say to people like you.
Go fuck yourself.
Absolutely no need for that. He wants to win, who doesn't?
There's nothing wrong with wanting to win.
There's a lot wrong with sounding like an entitled asshole despite being just some fan and not a team member.
There's a lot wrong with saying that anything outside a national title is "sucking."
I think you read into his comment too much... Since 2007 we've been 31-28 (including this year) with some major blowouts as well as constantly losing to Ohio State and Michigan State. Nobody is entitled to wins, but the last couple of years were unacceptable for Michigan and as a fan of Michigan he has the right to be disappointed.
As for your last comment, nobody said or even implied that.
We have lost to Iowa the last three times....Penn State the last three times....MSU four times...and Ohio. This is not the Michigan I once knew and this downward spiral starting showing itself in 2005. We are a second tier big ten school and "little brother". Hoke has his work cut out for him because there isn't anyone on the field that knows how to win a championship let alone how to beat the teams mentioned above.
Once again a good time for me to mention my Chrome extension (linked in my signature!) that allows the hiding/highlighting of different posters! Welcome to my block list!
First off, Hoke is doing a great job...
Coaching and teaching the game are a constant now, and if you can't see that as an upgrade -- I'm sorry, but it's rather obvious. You can see it in the players who are playing, and you can see it as some are clearly getting better, which happens - with good teaching/coaching. You shouldn't get worse, which is something that happened before. We are taking out the pieces that didn't work in past years, but Hoke is forced to fill those spots with freshmen. That sucks, but guess what... We're currently bringing in a top five class this year, and, well, that means this time next year a good chunk of that class will no doubt be in the two deep. Why? Cause they'll have been upgrades over what we use to have, and Hoke will find a way to get those freshmen in there, like he's doing this year. Is that ideal? No. That's just where we are. Transitions go faster the better you recruit -- look at Florida and Texas, two teams in the same boat UM is right now. They'll be back soon.
And that's thanks to coaching and good recruiting!
And that's something we have!
For various reasons, the discussion of which is beyond the scope of this thread, we are in the middle of the second coaching change in four years. Patience is not requested - it is practically required.
I agree with your post but can also see why people are getting a little impatient. The last time we beat a good Big Ten team was in 2007 against Penn State. Wisconsin finished 7-6 in 2008 so I don't count them as a quality win.
Interesting point about Wisky. In 3 years they managed to turn things around nicely.
Us? Another 3 years away assuming we get this class signed.
But I have a lot of impotent rage that is in need of release, and if I can't unleash it on Michigan football or the internet, then where?
the good news is if we play iowa next year and we win it will be soooo much of a better win cause we will sherish it more. same thing with ohio to. its like when you didnt get layed for 3 or 4 years and then when you do your like damn i really sherised that.
Patience.. Yeah, yeah, how long will that take?
Next year may be esp. frustating because we may very well be a better team with a worse record.
This isn't an excuse for this coaching staff but really I'm not going to be too upset with them their first two season. I mean what 95% of the guys playing out there today were Richrod's players. It's kinda of hard to judge a staff without at least seeing their first class as juniors.
And the playcalling isn't what is holding this offense back. People talk all this crap about how we were a top 10 offense last year. What happened we played osu,wisconsin, or msu? Yeah that's not a top 10 offense. We have an offensive line that opens up little to no holes against quality opponents. We have two quarterbacks who don't read the field very well, and one who struggles with any throw over 20 yards. And on top of all that we have slot ninjas playing outside.
Interesting you say that as this is the junior year of RR's first full class.
I wasn't going to respond to any of your posts, but you're theme is infuriating. We understand, you're missing RR, but get over it.
Like someone else said, if you can't see improvement in this team, you're blind. Name one game this year that we weren't competitive in. *Crickets, crickets*. How about last year?
I rest my case.
How many upperclassmen did we have on the team last year?
How many upperclassmen do we have on the team this year?
How much WORSE is the BIG this year than last year?
If we end up 7-5 this year it is a HUGE disaster laid at the feet of the coaches and DB for not letting RR have 1 more year with his players.
This is their first year, and a coach's first year is hard for most coaches--even the most successful ones.
Urban Meyer took over a Ron Zook coached Florida team that had won 7 games and won...9. This is one of the best coaches of the past few decades we're talking about, who subsequently won 2 national championships.
Pete Carroll, another one of the best coaches of the past few decades (scandals aside), took over a 6-6 team and in his first year went...6-6. Then won 2 national championships.
We're still likely to win at least 1 more game, but even if we don't, it really doesn't tell us how successful the coaching staff will be over time.
Sure I'm frustrated, but the future does look bright. We are in games, fighting to the end. The defense is improving and almost like night and day compared to last year. The second half of the year in 2010, Michigan could not count on the defense for much of anything. Sure the offense is struggling at times. But it, too, is improving. We are a couple players and couple plays away from being really good ( or really mediocre if we go the other way). I'm not satisfied with the results--I wish for better outcomes, but I certainly have confidence in the coaches and players.
Btw, did anyone else notice Hoke putting on the headset late in the game? Is that a first for him this year?
I don't think this offense is improving. Sure didn't look like it today. Didn't look like it at MSU.
I've heard the patience meme before....it just wont happen with this fanbase. Might as well accept that now.
to be good, you have to play to win now. Always.
How are the gimmicks on offense helping us win now?
Denard's passing this year v last has seemed to me like what happens when the pro tries to improve the swing of the hacker who plays all the time (& with tons of raw talent in this case). What happens is the hacker's swing was all messed up but he had learned how to sorta make some of the flaws work anyway (mostly by messing up other parts of the swing). Pro comes in & sets some things straight and, in short run, the hackers gets MUCH worse. If sticks with it & eventually gets that pro-advised swing right, he'll be much better for it. But, OW are his drives going to suffer in interim.
Well, that's what Denard's passing looks like to me. It _was_ getting better last year.
Bullshit. Everyone's frustrated with this Offense that we saw score major points last year. There really isn't a good reason for the regression except that the new staff wants to run a new scheme. I've have a hard time believing that Denard just got worse. Through B10 play so far denard only has 70 carries. He needs a minimum of 15 for this O to be effective.
At at times it really feels like Borges would rather have DG and QB an is giving him every opportunity to squeeze him out.
Iowa gave up 28 in junk time after they had taken a large lead. The offense is essentially performing the same this year as it did last year versus better competition.
I feel that term is debatable. This Iowa team is not nearly as good as last year which sent 6 players to the NFL last year. Adrian Clayborn, Christian Ballard, Ricky Stanzi, Karl Klug, Julian Vandervelde, and Tyler Sash are all impact players. The Minnesota team that came to Ann Arbor would have lost to a FCS school like UMass easily just like they lost to North Dakota State and New Mexico. (Yes, I am calling New Mexico a FCS school.) I think 2010 UConn was better than Western this year. Eastern is Eastern and yes last years Indiana and Bowling Green were bad but no one is upset about losing Penn State and Wisconsin off the schedule. I think sparty was slightly better last year despite their padded defensive stats this year from snuffing out FAU, a bad Central team and a offensively handicapped OSU.
While close I feel last year schedule was tougher. Ohio State was better last year than this year so that is yet to come and Michigan moved the ball well against sparty but with two red zone turnovers, one to start the game.
As with anything the truth lies in between but I think this years schedule is easier because the Big Ten merely average and that is being nice. This years conference bowl class may go winless.
Heading into today we were ranked 21st in yards/game (2nd in B10) and offense ranked 15th using FEI (also 2nd in B10). We have beaten up on bad opponents and struggled on the road. Our QB is still throwing head scratching turnovers. I'm sure RR would be doing better but then again that's because these are his players for his system. All things considered, I don't think Borges has done poorly to date, and the story of the season is far from written.
Stealing a philosophy espoused by Bobby Bowden and quoted in Three and Out.
1. You lose big first. Um, maybe that's true when you're building a progam. The University of Michigan football program doesn't need to be rebuilt, thank you very much.
2. You lose close. Yeah, that's where we are right now with tough road games. MSU and Iowa are a combined 12-0 at home. We were within 1 TD late in both games.
3. You win close. At home we definitely win close against decent teams like Notre Dame. We'll hopefully win against NU and O$U too.
4. You win big. We're not there just yet but it's the first year under Hoke.
So we're somewhere between 2-3. I don't see us losing big anytime soon and we are starting to win big against the lightweights (WMU, EMU, SDSU, MINN, NWU, PU).
Coaching may allow us to steal some games. That's true. Unfortunately, it has also definitely caused us to lose two. The offensive playcalling was awful in both losses.
It seems like people are less willing to add a temporal element to their assessments of the program and are favoring a "win now" approach with a staff that has only been on the job since a little after New Year's (many on the staff have less time than that, for obviously the hires took time).
Are we so starved for glory that some are now unwilling to account for the "growing pains" (i.e., games like today) of this staff? Are we not willing to take poor execution and "WTF?" playcalling now and again in their proper context?
Thems a whole lotta fancy pants questions you jus' ax'd there, buddy.
Questions people round here don't make care fer. If'n you know what I mean.
I am wondering where the thoughtful, erudite fanbase I grew up with and knew at school went sometimes....
Give it a shot, folks. What do you want from this staff?
I reckon they all fled over yonder to the hill countries n' such. Right 'bout the time these newfanglers came a rollin' in.
An lemme tell ye'. These new types don't take too kindly to yer existential quanderies, that they don't.
Rather round themselves up a witch burnin' party, and set out a rabble rousin'.
Cest la vie, man. Cest la vie.
There is still a difference in being patient and accepting less than what we are capable of. I think anyone who watched that game today would say Michigan has such a higher potential than Iowa, at least with current talent levels. I don't really buy the arguments that we lack talent right now. We are LOADED on offense, and decent enough to be a mid-to-above-average defense. I'm all for being patient, but we have to take advantage of our players with better playcalling and less mistakes/ turnovers.
I'd be shocked if we won or lost all three of our remaining games at this point. We're just not quite that good or bad to do that yet. It seems, like almost every other year for the last 50 years of Michigan football, that at the end of the day it will all come down to the last day of the year against that school down south...
We really need Diggs or Payton or Darboh or one of these receivers to come through this year. As great as our recruiting class is shaping up to be, WR is one glaring hole that needs to be filled.
.....lest the jury end up being out on Greg Mattison too. After all, it was HIS defensive line (for he was the D-Line coach in 1994) that just quite couldn't get to Kordell Stewart in time. Remember Hoke's D-Line trying to find Donovan McNabb somewhere on the field? Uh-oh.
We don't need a redux of Edwards or Breaston or Wheatley out there. The current talent plus additions via recruiting may very well do just fine. Time is what you need. Besides, the O-line has been addressed in recruiting as well. Denard (and possibly Devin) might fare better with a few more seconds to read coverage. THAT has been an issue - the lack of time to do this.
Patience is a point of view, Anakin.
Thinking back to this summer, my expectations were 6-6 and hopefully a bowl game with one of those wins against a rival (I was guessing/hoping state). Frankly, I didn't really care what the final record was. All I wanted to see competency and less embarrassing implosions. If we got beat because we weren't strong enough or fast enough, I could live with that. When I heard Hoke say anything less than a B1G championship would be a failure, I was impressed by the high expectations he had for the team, but thought he was out of his mind.
3/4 of the season later, with a softer than expected B1G conference, and a surprisingly improved D, we still were right in the hunt. This group has exceeded my expectations considering new coaches and systems on both offense and defense. It's really a credit to this bunch of kids that, after so little continuity or stability, they were able to buy in yet again. Sure, there are sore spots with Denard's accuracy and the play-calling, but really nothing that can be considered anything but normal growing pains given the circumstances.
Iowa played a hell of a game, mistake free and punishing. They forced us to beat them and in the end we got close but couldn't finish it. There's no shame in that. Let's not devolve into doom and gloom and write them off for the rest of the season. A lot of the comments in the live blog and after have frankly sounded a lot like the Notre Dame blogs. I hope we pull out at least a couple more games (please let it be ohio), but even if we don't, I will still consider this a successful season and look forward to a bright future.
All we need to win is one more game to achieve this record. I'm hoping that the season implosion has not begun but finishing 7-5 again with the experience players we have on both offense and defense will be under performing! I thing we have more upper class-men and experience players to finish 8-4 or 9-3. It will be tough winning in Champagne since I think IL is an overall better team than IA. I still think there is hope to win one or both of our final two home games. We seem to play better at home and I don't think NE is the power house I thought they would be. OSU can be beaten at home, though it will probably be a tough game. So, I'm optimistic that we could win our final two home games and finish at 9-3.
Yeah, my feeling was we'd regress a bit due to the coaching change and underperform our ability. The O has regressed further than I expected, but the D has developed a lot more than I would have expected. Record aside, we've looked like we can hang with any team we play this year and I'm thrilled with that. I think there's an outside chance, probably better than I would like, that we lose the rest, but I still wouldn't consider it an implosion as long as our team keeps fighting, which I think they will
eh, we only have 17 more games with denard to suffer through 50% completion percentage, 150 yards or less, more ints than tds........
It's tempting to think that all Borges had to do was pretty much run last year's offense. Ideally, pairing that with this year's defense would be a potent combination. But last year's offense was centered on Denard running the football, and he paid for it as the season wore on.
Who here wants to see Robinson out for more than a series or two? Like it or not, that affects play calling ... though it doesn't explain never throwing a bubble or not opening the offense up with some no-huddle pacing.
We'll have to have patience because there isn't much depth. RR may well have been heavily constrained this year without Forcier, unless Gardner would have looked enough better in his system to outweigh youth and inexperience.
As frustrated as I was by the playcalling in this game and the ongoing misuse of offensive talent, I still think Borges is an excellent coordinator. His track record is every bit as impressive as Mattison's. He's just working outside of his comfort zone right now and doesn't know how to properly utilize a QB like Denard. Once he gets the tools he needs for his style of play, our offense will be a force to be reckoned with.
I feel like the coaches didnt have this team ready for this game. The first half displayed a lack of focus which lead to not executing on key plays.
This was a game we should have won. If we were at home the Hemingway TD goes our way. Even with the new staff, new system, we're 3 yards from taking a game into OT. Even the great teams dont execute, just take Alabamas OT possesion.
We still have great coaches, this is still a great season and we can still finish strong. I am tired of reading the over-dramatic Michigan fan ready to dump on everyone.
I hate a comparison like that - this to what Rodrioguez had to deal with in 2008. "at least we know Michigan isn't going to to go 3-9 in Hoke's first year". With all due repect Hoke is working with a vastly improved situation than what RR was faced with.
You'll see that in a couple of years. You all will. Hahahaha. Or I'll be wrong. But I'm never wrong. So hahahaha.
how inept this offense was against a competent defense was negged and flamed to Bolivia. Now many more are saying the truth. This offense, the type of players RR brought here, despite what skills they may have, CANNOT beat the better defenses in the conference. Why? Because they are not beig enough, strong enough or fast enough. The play calling is attempting to hide the deficiencies that these players have and they still cannot execute.
The OLine cannot block the better defenses (and even some of the average defenses) in the B1G, the receivers aren't fast enough or big enough to get any separation and the backs and QB are big enough to shake off any tacklers. Denard may be fast, but his speed has been completely neutralized by the defenses in the B1G. He has no holes to run through and he's not as fast as he was two years ago. He's not out-running anyone now. We'll never see what we saw at ND last year.
Every team with a competent defense knows how to scheme to beat Denard and have made him simply average. By doing that, our offense isn't very good because Denard was the X-factor. Teams know how to stop him and without that wild card, Michigan's offense is just average at best. Unless Devin G. learns how to play QB really fast, this team will have to win with defense for the next three years. Shane Morris may be the answer, but not as a freshman. We need a big bruising back and a receiver that create separation and right now we don't have any such thing.
I think you're right. the problem is, this doesn't explain the Iowa game.
Zing! Backhanded compliment of the day...
I will give up one of the next two games, maybe both to beat Ohio State at this point. Losing to Illinois wouldn't be good but would feel like Iowa. I've thought Nebraska would win from the moment the schedule came out but maybe not anymore. I could care less if the conference is weak and if we are "frauds". I don't care if OSU is down because they didn't care that Michigan has been down and they were dirtier than used Depends in their wins. For me perosnally beating Illinois and Nebraska only to lose to OSU would leave a bad taste. Going 2-1 isn't ideal it would be far more palatable of one of those wins came at home on November 26, 2011.
Actually, we probably have more raw talent on our teams than most of the B1G teams we play. I just get frustrated knowing if the coaches and players would play to their ability they could beat the IA and MSU of the B1G! It is disappointing knowing that we should play better but some how we do not capitalize on our skills. IMO we are a better team than IA and probably are on the same level of MSU. I like what Mattison is doing on defense, and I think the D played well enough to allow us to win. The offense is frustrating since we have skill players for some reason they do not mesh well enough to get the results necessary to win.
I will not give a final grade to the current coaching staff until the final game of the season. But from what I see now we will probably lose our last 4 games and finish at a disappointing 7-5. I was hoping for 8-4 which may still be possible but I think B1G teams know how to play the spread, so I think there is a good chance we will loose the remainder of our games. I'm still hoping that Hoke can pull out a win against OSU at home, and if he does a it will be a successful 8-4 season breaking a big losing streak against OSU. However, if we finish with 4 strait losses I will be quite disappointed in Hoke's first season.
Next season we will be lucky to finish 7-5. We'll have to play Alabama in Dallas and ND in SB, these could be two non-conferences losses. I expect we'll be a better team but maybe not so much better. I'm still be worried about losing at home to MSU and on the road to OSU next year. Though we should beat some of the middle B1G teams but we may have a worse W-L record. I think 2013 will be a break out season...but I'm still worried about finding a top RB to take over what will be a true pro set and how well will Gardner play?
Secretly I was hoping Hoke would have a first season similar to Bo but now I know this dream is fading, and we will end up in some lower terr bowl game. I felt like we got a true groin punch from today's loss. But Hoke still has 4 games to prove himself, so I will pass judgement until the end of the season.
I will always root for our team and I love watching our team and kids playing their hearts out, no matter their record. I will always root for them.
is for people that don't get their own way. F that
"Patients is" also for Dr's...
Will people explain to me why the general consensus I'm seeing on the board is that OSU at home is more winnable than Illinois next week? I think that's ridiculous and I also hate all this talk about this season being a disappointment. Yeah it sucks to lose to State and that Iowa game was winnable, but did you guys expect 12-0? A lot of people had us losing to ND and we pulled off an insane win. Let these guys regroup and get the W this week. Let's see how the coaches get the team to respond; then let's evaluate the season. We've lost to two teams that are title contenders. We're not dropping games to Toledo anymore guys.
It's probably more a function of Illinois being a road game than anything. We can still take these last three games, as the worst of the three teams is a road opponent, and the other two are at home. Home field seems to be a HUGE advantage this year in the Big Ten due to the amount of young teams.
I expected 9-3...doesn't look very likely at the moment.
Anyone who complains about ANYTHING except Borges play calling is a fool. That is the only problem.
Al's fault? If his playcalling was better, the Sun wouldn't spit plasma and occasionally disrupt radio communications.
If I seem to recall, the first two rushing td's that Iowa gave up last year both came from denard en route to him putting up over 500 total yards.
Simple, let Denard be Denard. He was trying so hard to be Borges style while sitting back in the pocket that he gave up so many easy running lanes. The announcers kept repeating this. Just make a quick checkdown (maybe even just your first choice) and if not open...run like nobody else can. The most dangerous play for a defense to defend is the broken play with a great running quarterback.
Why do we need to demonstrate patience when the problem isn't personnel, rather coaching? Outside of hiring a DC for $750k vs $250k for GERG this team is significantly worse than last year.
The B1G is far worse than last year when there were three legitimate BCS bowl calier teams in OSU, Wisco, and MSU. This year, there isn't a BCS caliber team in the conference. The middle of the pack teams in the conference are far worse. And if not for a minor miracle against ND, this team has yet to be a decent opponent. Yet, outside of maybe ND and and MSU, Mich has held a significant talent advantage over every opponent.
Hoke/Borges are putting a round peg in a square hole on offense. Its painful to watch. And it is all on the coaching staff. No one else is to blame for this mess on offense this season.
7-5 with this roster versus this level of competition is underachieving. Hoke needs to beat OSU and either Illinois or Neb to have the season not deemed a disappointment.
While the season isn't lost, we should be 9-0 right now. We are 7-2 because of stupid turnovers and offense struggles to get rolling early. Hopefully we can drop a bomb on Zook and company and gain the momentum back in our favor.
It is my recollection that last year, like this year, Denard ran only on designed run plays. He rarely scrambled last year (I seem to recall people saying it would come with experience) and he rarely scrambles this year. Yesterday, I was encouraged by seeing him go through progressions, and that makes me think he is learning. There were, for example, passes to Koger where it was pretty clear that Koger had not been his first or second read. Further, if every pass that should have been caught yesterday had been caught, he would have been at least 22-37, instead of 17-37 (and that is respectable) and even better if PI had been called when it should have been called or if the TD to Roundtree had been called a TD. He does not seem to be able to figure out when to pull it down and run, though; instead, he unloads on every pass play that is called, sometimes with less than satisfying consequences, particularly on his long passes.
Not good enough to win games like these!!!! We were twice shafted in the final four plays and that would have given Michigan a chance to tie. If Borges' playcalling was able to take advantage of one of football's most dynamic players, even to last year's level, we wouldn't be talking about patience. What upsets me is that I don't think Michigan will ever be open to a modern spread attack, and simple questions about bubble screens upset Borges. So we have a solid defense now and our coach makes the obvious decision on fourth downs, but when it comes to adjusting to talent and learning from past offensive success the coaches have been mediocre. Denard has gone from dynamic to average, and that is as much coaching as the defense's improvement. I'm sick of being patient, especially when the blueprint for success is available and the coaches scoff at it.