Paterno retiring at the end of the season, according the AP as reported by ESPN.
Link when available.
Paterno retiring at the end of the season, according the AP as reported by ESPN.
Link when available.
Another bad decision...it will be ugly at not so Happy Valley Saturday. imagine the flack coming down for the remaining two games which are away. I suspect they will hide him and keep him off the field.
He is scum, just like the rest of the crew that chose to remain silent.
JOEPA IS NOT SCUM
sandusky is the bad guy
joepa at worst showed cowardice in the face of a moral decision
Opinions vary, as do thresholds for considering someone "scum."
JoePa is NOT scum. He did the right thing by telling his superiors what he knew. He did the wrong thing by not calling the police. JoePa is and always will be a legend. I'm sad that he's retiring. He was the one thing the Big Ten had the no other conference did. He will also be the last FBS coach to spend that amount of time at one school.
Well, that is your opinion. Seems many disagree with you. In the end, whether you are right or not, it seems young boys were raped after Paterno was made aware of at least one incident.
I'm not sure what the debate about the applicability of the term "scum" does.
JoePa did the wrong thing. Dur.
But put yourself in his shoes. Its not so simple as always reporting every crime. You can't tell me we all reported our underaged friends drinking. So, it's a decision on whether to report the crime, based on the outcomes.
MAYBE, he didn't really believe the GA. I mean, you're putting a decade-long friend and a GA in a contest for whom JoePa trusts more. Let me guess who wins that.
WELL, HE STiLL SHOULD HAVE CALLED:
Duh....But again, put yourself in his shoes. It's pretty tough to throw a decade-long friend under that amount of scrutiny (if the allegations are incorrect) or into jail (if they are correct).
It really doesn't matter what the crime is. You guys try throwing your friends into jail sometime. Seriously, it's a very hard thing to do.
I AGREE JOEPA SHOULD BE FIRED. Just....please stop saying that he's the heart of evil. Jeez.
Are you fucking kidding me? Did you really equate under age drinking to RAPING a 10 year old boy and allowing a pedophile to continue preying on young boys for 10+ years!?!??!?!
If he didn't want to believe his GA (who he had known for 10 years) his responsibility was to ask Sandusky about the incident ....especially considering the fact he had already been questioned for, and ADMITTED to, inappropriate sexual behaviour with a young kid in 1998.
Get some perspective man. Winning football games does not absolve you from fsailing to do the right thing and protecting the innocent when you have the opportunity to do so.
The GA was a former player, whose father was lifelong friends with Sandusky. He was so conflicted in what he saw that he told his father first, and then the cover up began. He left PSU in 99 because of this type of BS, and the university should have cut all ties with him. They knew of these allegations when the 2002 story came up from McQueary. There is no reason for JoePa not to have believed it, and he believed the story enough to tell his boss. I can't defend a guy, no matter what good he has done in his life, if he chooses to be that ignorant.
Also, your analogy of not telling on a friend for underage drinking is ridiculous. I know you are making an example, but child rape and underage drinking are not even remotely similar, as one is a small fine, and the other is one of the most atrocious acts against a child that one can do. That is not even apples to oranges, but more like an apples to shit on a stick comparison. I wouldn't call the cops on my friends drinking, but I would call on them raping a 10 year old in a heart beat. There would be no conflicting interest for me, because as soon as I heard about such a thing, the friend is no longer a friend.
1) The severity of the accusations
2) The likelyhood that it would happen again.
I see your point, if my lifelong friend murdered a spouse (which is severe), but unlikely to happen again, then covering up the situation stinks, but is understandable.
Abusing children, however is severe and likely to happen again (as it unfortunately did).
Please don't downvote tasnyder's little gem here - I'd like to keep it visible so everyone can see what a dumb fuck he is.
If you cannot see that alerting the police about a child molester is not the right thing to do thisn you are as sick as the rest of them!
If you did, I think you might feel a little differently. Sandusky is an evil incarnate, so yeah, JoePa is scum for being complicit in this whole affair. This ain't a shade of gray type of thing, there is a right response and a wrong response to this sort of thing. JoePa chose to try and cover this up, which was the wrong thing to do. For that, he gets the scum tag.
First of all if you believe that the one instance where McQueary came to Paterno and told him about Sandusky raping a child was the first thing he ever knew about Sandusky's perversions, you're pretty goddamn credulous.
But even if that were true, that one instance of covering that shit up - and don't kid yourself, if it wasn't a cover-up he would have followed the fuck up with the AD - is enough to entirely tarnish his reputation. Sandusky hung around PSU with kids for years after word came out. Years.
I don't care how much it fucks with your world view, Paterno is an utter moral coward. Whether you want to use the word 'scum' or not is entirely a question of semantics.
Wrong, at worst, his cowardice allowed the sexual exploitation of children for seven more years. Anyone allowing something like that is scum at the very best. He put his program ahead of children and there are no number of press conferences or demonstrations in support of him that would change my mind. I always respected him. That is completely gone.
I agree the wording is strong, but if you can't acknowledge how someone would feel that way about Paterno then you're missing the point.
I go with him being unable to believe Sandusky was capable of these things and he wanted it dealt with in the easiest way possible. It's still awful, he should still be fired with extreme prejudice but I'm not comfortable with the thought that it's as sinister as other explanations.
I still am curious about how McQuery has been living with himself and watching Sandusky still coming around the school.
I apologize if you think my use of the word "scum" is too strong. I have two sons, both recent Michigan alums, and for me to even contemplate someone doing what Sandusky is accused of doing to my sons because someone chose not to inform the authorities, makes me crazy. No kid deserves to be treated that way. Not ever. The action is inexcusable.
"Scumbag" is what I would use to describe him and everyone else in the cover-up! having a child myself this whole thing sickens me.
One has to apply some logic here. JoePa is in charge of who is on his staff and who isn't... agree? McQuery is on his staff. JoePa must find him to be relatively good at his job and more or less honest. HE TOLD JOEPA THAT SANDUSKY WAS ______ing kids in the PennSt locker room. McQuery is STILL on staff. JoePa HAS to believe what he was told or McQuery would have been shit canned 9 years ago.
JoePa saw Sandusky coming and going WITH children for 9 more years!!! NINE MORE YEARS and never said another word.
Scum is the absolute nicest thing I could think of the call JoePa right now. He should be gone yesterday. he should be in jail, sued by every kid on the list after 2002... probably 1998 since he HAD TO HAVE KNOW why Sandusky was pushed out of the program at that point.
He is evil to allow more kids to be raped and sodomized and tortured when he could have ended it all.
scum, isn't considered to be an ITG, does it?
I am so sick of everyone saying how they would have gone to Sandusky's house and knocked down the door and beat him up themselves...how if they were McQuery they would have grabbed that kid out of the shower...
the fact is bad things happen all the time, and people witness them...they are either in shock or don't believe it or are too afraid to do anything
JoePa didn't do enough, everyone agrees on this point, JoePa agrees on this point
He isn't scum or a bad guy or vile or anything else anyone wants to call him
You know what JoePa is? He is Human, and perhaps that is the worst thing that comes out of this.
The lionized mythical figure of JoePa being above mere mortals is forever disavowed and forgotten...but perhaps it is our fault to put him up on that pedestal. Maybe in the future we will stop making people out to be more than human and just accept them for what they are...a frail old man who could not believe his buddy was a monster
I expect more out of fellow human beings. Perhaps you don't and I shouldn't, but I still expect human beings to do the right thing in the face of such unspeakable evil.
The Bystader Effect refers to the effect of a GROUP'S presence on an individual person's likelihood to help in an AMBIGUOUS situation. You are way off base invoking it here.
the entire discussion is focused on the inaction of the PSA athletic department...i.e. the group
Sandusky did what he did in front of multiple people, bring kids to practice, overnight situations etc.
The Bystander Effect happens when a bunch of people are standing around in the same place and witness something. It doesn't apply to serial witnesses over time.
I am a psychology professor. You are not right about this.... at all.
and doesnt make me expect people to be so selfish and cowardice to not do everything in their power to prevent it from happening again.
Joe Pa is the supposed leader of young men and the figure head of a university. A leader certaintly should not allow this to happen. Thats the whole point of choosing a leader is that they will rise above and make the right choices.
OK, we reached that point
The Holocaust is an example of the bystander effect
multiple events over time
you are aruing fine points and semantics...the example holds
using them generally means you're wrong.
The last "Unspeakable Evil" was the Nazis. If your entire family didn't fight in WWII, then your family has some "cowards" in it.
Perhaps it's not such an easy/obvious choice after all? Perhaps, humans have more complex decisions than you're attributing them.
P.S. Yes, JoePa dropped the ball. No, he's not the devil.
JoePa may not be the devil, but he's not that far off. There is no indication that JoePa ever followed up with administration after telling them once about Sandusky. Or that he ever spoke to Sandusky about it. Or that he ever tried to find or reach out to the kid who got raped or his family.
JoePa helped foster an environment in which an accused pedophile was allowed to roam Penn State's campus with impunity. Sandusky had a kid on campus with him in 2008, right in front of both McQueary and Paterno. Neither did anything about it. JoePa is, at best, a POS.
P.S. He didn't "drop the ball." Not submitting CARA forms is "dropping the ball." He allowed child rapist to roam free. Everyone involved with this situation at Penn State should be fired as of yesterday.
To talk with the cops and not get personally involved. He could have easily done that. Joe could've said "I'm staying out of this, you witnessed it, talk to the cops and the situation will be handled that way."
Maybe years later, after people have had time to learn the full scope of what happened/didn't happen and fully digest it, more will be willing to accept what you just wrote. I agree some of the current chest thumping is over the top, but for obvious reasons it's a very emotional thing.
forever defend your right to say it. I will not argue our differences regarding Joe Paterno, here (I have already posted those on other related threads). But, the opinion of Hoke_Floats and others should be heard and read on this blog.
The only positives I see coming out of this sordid episode are related to dialogues like these. What will you do if you ever find yourself in a similar situation? What is the proper response of trusted officials? How and when should an institution react?
The number of places where honest and candid disagreements can occur with civil discourse are far too few. Most of the 7 billion people on the planet do not have the right express themselves so freely.
We don't need to level personal attacks on people who "support", "defend", or otherwise want to wait to decide their opinion about Joe Paterno and others involved in this matter. Keep presenting the respective arguments and we all become better for it.
Paterno and McQuary and crew didn't cover up the stealing of a paper clip, they covered up little children getting raped. Please stop with the arguments that this was just a little moral slip that could happen to anyone. You can't tell me that most people who walk in on a little kid getting raped aren't going to do everything in their power to make sure that stops happening immediately, the accused party is held to justice, and the kid's family knows about it immediately.
This is not a gray area type issue. Stop acting like it is.
with McQuary actions are: how as a normal human being, do you stop yourself from beating the living crap out of Sandusky right there in the shower, when you discover this is going on? Man, that guy is a coward to just turn around and walk out on that happening. Probably more worried about his PSU career, than the little kid....
The crime is not gray. Nobody's wondering if it's OK or not to do what Sandusky did. The situation, from the perspective of some of the players in it, most certainly is. The further you are, the less obvious your responsibility. Black and white rarely exists from every perspective.
The problem is this: they had 10 years to get over the shock of seeing/hearing about it. Yes, seeing that is probably shocking and hearing it you probably don't want to believe it. But after that initial shock comes and goes, and for the next 10 years when you see him in the hallways, sometimes with young boys, you call the fucking cops. End of story
he couldn't believe it after multiple incidents? He had an eye witness telling him SOMETHING bad was going down with a 10 year old boy in the showers of the PSU locker room? What more did he need - pictures?
His responsibility was to immediately get to the heart of the matter.
1. Find the boy and find out his story - he didn't do this
2. Ask Sandusky what happened - he didn't do this
3. Ban him from Penn State - he didn't do this
4. Call the Police and let them investigate since they are the pros - he didn't do this
You cannot be the head of the program and NOT be held resposnible when stuff like this happens. There is NO excusing him.
He only did the bare minimum and then he goes out and says: "we should pray for the victims, or whatever you want to call them..."
What else should we call them, JoePa? How can you belittle these people and their situation by saying "tough life when people do things to you"?
How about: "tough life when people in power - like me - do NOTHING to help you?"
I hope you live in shame for the rest of your life you senile old prick.
I might grant you that many of the people who claim that if they were in McQueary's shoes they would have knocked Sandusky out, or something, are full of shit. God knows how you might react in the moment of seeing something that fucked up and that far outside your normal worldview.
But Paterno - and McQueary - slid this shit under the rug for years. Maybe at one point it was just simply human weakness, garden-variety cowardice. But it became an utterly cynical exercise in maintaining the lie to avoid facing the ugly consquences - even when maintaining the lie endangered other children.
That's fucking low. That's beyond weakness, and into the realm of evil.
I don't have a son, but I have a baby girl and the thought of a trusted coach or teacher betraying her in such a heinous way as these young men had to endure....well if it was my kid, the person who assualted her could never be dead enough.
said WTF DO YOU THINK YOU ARE DOING !?!?!?!?!?!? Very loudly so as to draw attention to what was going on.
Then I'd have reported it to my Boss just like he did, and then if there wasn't a story in the newspaper the next day announcing the arrest of Jerry Sandusky for the commission of acts of preversion (Col B.A.T. Guano Pronunciation) against a youth I would have drove to the police station and reported it to the desk officer on duty. If no action was taken by the local P.D. I would have called the state authorities.
As the father of two children I would not rest until I made sure that this monster was behind bars.
Anyone who let this happen and basically enabled it is scum. If you can't see that then I feel sorry for you. Jo Pa and PSU are Disgusting for not putting an end to this, the fact they still allow him to be around kids is really disturbing.
There is no excuse for this, they all need to be fired and brought up on charges, this story gets more and more painful the more that these ingrates excuse this behavior by keeping him around.
I think "cowardice" is too kind a word - what did JoePa have to fear? A SUBORDINATE was allegedly raping young boys. It's not like Sandusky could fire JoePa for blowing the whistle. JoePa is the most powerful figure at Penn State - if he led a public crusade, the target of the crusade would be utterly destroyed, full stop.
One thing I've realized is that "innocent until proven guilty" applies to Sandusky (but damn, does he look guilty), but not to JoePa - regardless of the veracity of the allegations against Sandusky, JoePa did the absolute legal minimum to follow up on those very serious allegations. The very fact that PSU (ostensibly) cut Sandusky out of the program seems to suggest they believed the allegations might be true, but failed to get legal authorities involved - they placed their PR above the wellbeing of the alleged victims. That's way worse than "cowardice".
JoePa is (was?) probably the most powerful person in Pennsylvania. If he had wanted to make a phone call to the president and have him send an FBI unit out to investigate, he easily had the power to make that happen. Instead he did nothing beyond mentioning it to his boss.
I initially had a more wait and see attitude before jumping on the fire Paterno bandwagon, but now I can't even fathom that they're letting him continue to coach. By the way, what did it for me was thinking that he went and testified at the GJ proceedings, and still let Sandusky in the weightroom the next week. If that isn't flipping the bird to decency, I don't know what is.
I think he didn't have the courage to throw his friend in jail. It's not that he thought he'd get fired, or in trouble.
if being an accessory to child rape is not scum, then may God have mercy on your soul/
think of the situation. The more time I have to dwell on it - and I felt with the emotionally charged circumstances, it was best to withhold judgement- the more I find it impossible to fathom how Coach Paterno could misjudge so poorly. For his sake I hope he comes out with what in the world he was thinking to do the little that he did. I do feel he did good things for 99% of the young men who passed through Penn State, but now you have to wonder how genuine he truly was.
What a mess.
He was probably going to retire at this point in the season for the last 5 years or more. How is this the proper consequence. Enough of the press box coaching - PSU doesn't know where the buck stops.
Pellini on the situation...
I've got enough problems of my own," Pelini said Monday. "I can't comment on that. It seems to be an unfortunate situation and they're working through it the best they can."
Somebody in the B1G has to step up and not take the field if PSU can't step up. This is bigger than football.
Here's a writer that wants PSU football destroyed as a testimony to what happens to those who abuse power (link). There is nothing that restores what was lost to these kids.
Your question implies there's some threshhold of "enough"
I don't see a resignation from Paterno as anything other than revenge and blind rage. Its not restitution to the victims (I haven't seen them call for it anywhere) and it sure isn't going to offer them any comfort.
Nothing is going to be sufficient restitution nor provide comfort to the victims, but I assume that you don't advocate doing nothing. I get what you are saying, but actions, even symbolic, matter to people who have been victimized.
There is also an institutional responsibility on PSU's part to make clear statements about where they stand on the issues via their actions.
I appreciate the recognition that I'm not advocating for doing nothing. I guess I'm still not convinced that Paterno knew the severity of the accusation. Between his testimony and Mcquery's, I'm more inclined to believe Paterno was told something nebulous and so he passed it for further investigation. I absolutely agree that the ball was dropped beyond that by the PSU administration but once you've handed it off to the office responsible for investigating such claims (which oversees campus police) I can understand (but not condone) why JoePa didn't get on the hotline to the local police chief in State College - in the PSU world it was handed off to the police. And based on his previous comments and just released statement, I tend to believe his version of things rather than Mcquery's.
Institutional actions need to come down hard on those clearly in the wrong. I don't think the situation regarding JoePa is clear enough.
Maybe part of my hesitation to grab my pitchfork is that I just watched a former mentor have his life destroyed because he touched a teenage boy's stomach in Driver's Ed. Was it weird and inappropriate - sure, it was godawful dumb, especially in today's society. Is he a pedophile, I don't think so and I don't think his wife thinks so either. I can't believe Mcquery told JoePa that a child was anally raped in his facilities by a friend of his and not see JoePa on as much of a warpath as a geriatric can muster, or Mcquery for that matter.