I love Devin's future but I cannot take another fuckin year of a first year starter at QB.
frank beamer #1
I love Devin's future but I cannot take another fuckin year of a first year starter at QB.
I think last year worked out just fine, thank you very much
Eh, it kind of did. Keep in mind that Denard still made a lot of first year starter mistakes. He was just lucky enough to be an extremely gifted runner to help mitigate some of those mistakes. No matter how much hype DG is getting in spring, you have to assume he's gonna make RS freshman/first year starter type mistakes once the big games start, but without the heroic running to make up for it.
unless there is an injury....UNDER
The only reasons DG will replace DR as starter are injury or if Denard simply can't stop turning the ball over. The first is much more likely to occur than the second.
Ditto what Don said.
The good news? We have 2 good QBs. Maybe that allows Borges to run Denard more, knowing that if he needs to come out for a bit, his backup will pick up where he left off. And if Denard doesn't get hurt, he just keeps running it over everyone.
First off, I just want to echo other people's sentiment that having 2 good QBs is a really nice problem to have.
But I have to imagine that Denard is solidly in the lead at this point. He's a Heisman finalist incumbent. All the reports say he's adapting well. By all accounts he has a heroic work ethic. The coaches keep talking about keeping/adding things to the offense specifically for Denard. It seems like he's got it locked down at the moment.
That said, I would hope that the coaching staff doesn't feel too much outside pressure to keep him in simply because he's a fan favorite. Personally, Denard may be my favorite player in my 20+ years of watching Michigan football. But if DG legitimately beats him out, I would hope the coaching staff feels secure enough to make the switch. I just seriously don't think it'll happen.
Also, does anyone else feel deja vu about this offseason? Quasi-QB controversy. Cam Gordon hype. (I guess maybe that's it, but still...)
From the clinic, it was easy to see Robinsin is the absolute leader of the offense. It was also easy to see the 2nd Defense is absolutely horrible. They were abused over and over again during the three day period.
I think DG will only start if DRob is injured, although DG might end up being a better QB in Hoke's system. 2012 could be an interesting QB battle.
My feelings about the QB situation have been made clear over the past year or so. And maybe I'm just stubborn, but I haven't really changed my mind.
I still think Gardner is a better quarterback prospect. I don't know how long it will take for Gardner to surpass Robinson as a quarterback, but I think it will happen at some point. I also think Robinson is headed for a different position in the NFL (WR, SR, RB).
Whether Gardner shows he's better than Robinson this year or not...I have no clue.
So, are you going Over or Under 1.5 Devin starts in 2011?
Do it for a post at TTB. I'm sure nobody will fisk it.
Devin was hands down the top QB in his class, only a year younger than Denard, while Denard was a QB project coming into college. I cant imagine a talent like Devin Gardner sitting on the sideline for three full college years until he starts. Couldnt imagine it when he signed the LOI and cant imagine it now. Despite the progress Denard has obviously made and can still make.
A quick look through my e-mail history reveals why I'm not qualified to answer this question.
my friend's e-mail:
"the little QB for michigan I thought had no chance and low and behold he got a victory. At times it seemed like he was just flinging it to no one. Tate. man I dont know about that kid"
"I'm gonna have to disagree with you there. He's a true freshman who only has 1 turnover in two games. He's an elite runner and can throw on the move very well. I'm fired up for the Tate Forcier era."
"Allow me some Michigan football talk for a minute. They have 2 sophomore qb's, Tate Forcier and Denard Robinson. Forcier started every game last year as a freshman and is the more polished passer of the two. Robinson's qb skills are raw but improving and he is the superior athlete of the two. By all accounts it's a wide open race for the starting job right now. I think Rich Rod is gonna stick with Tate for at least the beginning of the season because of his experience and RR needs wins to keep his job this year. He can't be trying to develop another QB if Robinson isn't 100% ready to go. However, the Big 10 just had their media day and MIchigan took 3 of their seniors down to Chicago for the conference. A senior corner back said Tate hasn't been showing up to the voluntary practices and he considers him a "disease". This is a disaster. It really sounds like Tate is quitting on the team and the team is quitting on him. If that means Robinson is forced into the starting role before he is ready it's gonna cost them some games, RR will probably get fired, and I could be looking at another miserable 3-4 years of Michigan football"
Gardner is the prototype QB Borges is looking for. That said, maybe Al WANTS DG to be the guy.
idiot. The only thing that is POOP is your idiotic opinion. Did you honestly expect a first year starter to not make some mistakes or need some more polish?
You are a fucking idiot
Denard Robinson agains the 3 toughest defenses he faced and the bowl game (OSU, Wisky, Iowa, Miss St):
1067 total yards
Chad Henne against his 3 toughest opponents and the bowl game his senior year (Oregon, Wisconsin, OSU, and Florida):
598 total yards
4 INTs (these numbers include a 68 yard passing day against his toughest opponent OSU)
But you are right, Robinson just didn't play well the best competition.
Although your opinion is not even a legitimate one to hold, since it is contradicted by actual facts not open to debate, the testimony of our own eyes, and then of actual football coaches who rave about him. It is ludicrous and wrong, and cannot even be held without being wrong. But, I do commend you for responding so politely to the attack you got, which was both personal and with expletives. You could have responded in kind but didn't, well done.
I realize that everyone has an opinion, but geez, your's is terrible. Just terrible. Next time you voice your opinion, actually think first and try and use some semblance of logic.
Not that this posts deserves it (because it's just you trying to be a dick to Denard) but:
MSU- 17/29 215yds 1td 3int/ 21attempts 86yds
Illinois- Geez, his bad for getting hurt. Tom Brady went down in the preseason! Fire Tom Brady!
PSU- 11/23 190yds 1td/ 27attempts 190yds
OSU- The dude had a dislocated middle finger on his throwing hand and played anyway. WTF do you want?
I mean, I'm sure you're a better authority than the Big Ten coaches, or the All-America selectors. I can't wait until I post this and click the little "hide user" next to your name so I'm not subjected to your ridiculous statements any more.
You are very stupid.
Never mind what I said earlier.
Sean Ornery is a notorious pot stirrer.
HOWEVER, Denard does still have a lot to prove, especially in a new type of offense. I know everyone likes to point to Denard's completion percentage last year, but he was consistently inaccurate on deep throws. If not for the little bubble screens, his numbers would have been much worse. Additionally, even his bubble screens were somewhat inaccurate. There were countless times where the throw was completed but he made the receiver dive, jump, or twist around to make a catch. I'm not suggesting that you remove those bubble screen completions from his numbers, just that they're a bit misleading.
The difference is that I respect your football analysis. Sean Ornery provided no such analysis.
You're right that Denard is not the perfect QB. He might not be the best QB we've had, but he's good. I realize he has some mechanical issues and he'll always have his height holding him back to some extent, but disparaging a 1st Team All-American at Michigan and saying, "he's not that good" with the evidence being that he's not good when hurt (duh) and he's not good when he faces two of the best defenses in the nation as a first-year starter (duh) is just idiotic.
That's not pot stirring, that's trolling. Pot stirring would be saying, "hmm...I think Devin might overtake Denard because Borges has shown that he likes the prototypical QB, more like Devin than Denard. Also, Denard has some serious throwing flaws and Devin has worked to fix his." Pot stirring would involve provoking a discussion, which, to your credit, you do even when you're not being the nicest guy around.
I agree with what you're saying. I think his posting style takes away from the substance (whatever substance there is) of his posts. I don't know how he reaches his conclusions, but sometimes they're not completely out of left field. That's really my only point regarding him.
I went back and read your opinion on Devin v. Denard, and I was wondering what you thought about Denard's running ability keeping him in the top slot even if Devin is the better passer. I would think that RR would stay with Denard because of his, likely, vastly superior running ability, even if it cost some completions or interceptions compared to where Devin would be.
Do you think that under Borges Devin is going to have to be a really significantly better passer than Denard to overcome the deficit in rushing prowess, or do you think they'll be evaluated on QB skills straight up, so to speak?
I think Denard would have been RR's guy as long as both were here. I'm not a huge fan of Denard as QB, but he fits what Rodriguez wanted. And frankly, Gardner isn't as electrifying of a runner as Denard.
I don't think Devin has to be a great deal better than Denard to earn the job. I think the new offense fits Gardner a little better, and he could be dynamic as a SCRAMBLING quarterback even without the same skills as a pure runner. In Borges' offense, I think he'll value the passing slightly more than the running. The running should be left (mostly) to the running backs. Denard is obviously a more dangerous runner, but I don't think that should necessarily outweigh pure quarterback skills.
Pot Stirring is creating a thread asking folks to bet Over/Under 1.5 Devin Gardner starts this year. Ornery is just being an internet douche bag because he can.
Oh jamiemac, you and your pot stirring...
No QB does everything right in his first year. The deep throws were deflating, but he throws them well in practice. More often than not, I liked Denard's accuracy. He struggled when he thought too much, which a new offense isn't going to help. He gets tight and thinks about aiming - remember the tight end screen he threw over the guy's head against Iowa?
When he just plays, he throws very well. Being a second year starter, and not being exhausted from running every play - a lot of throwing is in your legs -, will make him deadly this year. And we need a RB to emerge, dammit.
Just thinking about his posting history, I doubt it.
Bright side? I installed BlockM's Ultra MGoBoard and now I don't have to read "opinions" like that after a click of the mouse!
Installing Ultra MGoBoard is definitely on my To Do list.
I was hoping you would come on because I wanted to ask if the rumor you told about points being backlogged was true or not. Did you actually hear this or were you trying to scare that poster who was being a dick?
Brian hinted that points were coming online soon again in this post:
In the meantime I will reach in and restore the dirty hack I dirtily hacked the first time around. Give me some time, a week or so.
You know me justingoblue; I don't make idle threats or bluster to get idiots to shut up.
"The consequences are coming back next week. I've heard up and down votes from between the Malware Apocalypse and now will retroactively count when the new points system is activated.
In short: Watch what you say on this site."
I hadn't heard that, just that points would be coming back online in the next week-ten days (which should now be more like 2-3 days).
I just searched Brian's postings and the Board for about half an hour and could not find any explicit proof that the votes from the Malware Apocalypse and now will count. So, you got me there. I will uselessly down-vote my last two votes as punishment.
You should have spent the time downloading Ultra. You can pick favorites and banhammer people. It actually takes about thirty seconds.
So far I've added three favorites and three people are blocked.
I'm getting too old and venerated to keep smacking down n00bs. Guess I'll have to change my name to "Ancient BlueDragon" one of these days and buy some suspenders.
Is Gardner going up against the second-team D all day? Don't the twos on one side often go up against the ones on the other?
Good teams figured us out last year. It's fairly easy when you have good talent on D to stop a "one man" show. We need as many different looks as possible. It may not be the first few games as they adjust to the new system, but incorporating new looks (Devin alone or Devin and Denard together) along with some threats from running backs, receivers would make this offense much more potent. Lets have so many options that the D has no clue what's coming or who to watch.
Exactly. Which means we need more walk on QB's!
Sean Ornery, you're right about DR getting hurt, but he'll run the ball a whole lot less this year, so the chances of him getting hurt are drastically reduced.
I would like to see Gardner start. He has looked very impressive in spring football videos. The spring game should give a better glimpse into which qb is the better fit. maybe they should run a two qb offense...
no way he starts before a healthy Denard.
develops before we go off creating a QB controversy. I'm speaking to the RB's and not the bootlegs or assigned QB runs.