Our response vs. TSIO response to the media
I've been on Bucknuts and Espn a lot in the past day or so, and overwhelmingly, tsio fans pretty much deny any wrongdoing and still stand behind Tressel 100%. I remember back when it was us against the Freep in 2009/2010. I don't recall us being so stalwart in our defense of our program. We thought the response to the actual charges was overblown (practice time? really??), but did we have our heads as deep in the sand as the buckeye fans?
We also felt the Freep was on a witch hunt, just like they think ESPN is out to topple their program. Thoughts on ESPN? Is tsio being persecuted, like they think they are?
August 11th, 2011 at 9:44 AM ^
Why are you on Bucknuts? And what else would you expect from Buckeye fans?
August 11th, 2011 at 9:48 AM ^
Bucknuts makes me laugh.
And, I'm just trying to be objective.
August 11th, 2011 at 10:26 AM ^
Bucknuts view Tressel like many view their elected officials. He's an a$$hole, but he's our a$$hole.
August 11th, 2011 at 9:49 AM ^
August 11th, 2011 at 8:32 PM ^
Grab popcorn and read their commentary....Very enjoyable
August 11th, 2011 at 9:48 AM ^
Just to know the enemy and see what they are saying... Besides its funny to see the excuses and tuff guy talk they do on there in defense of the Suckeyes
August 11th, 2011 at 9:48 AM ^
We also had a fragmented fan base while Tressel is a hero in Columbus. We probably had a lot of people who were glad that the scandal happened to RR so he could be fired.
August 11th, 2011 at 9:58 AM ^
I honestly doubt Michigan fans were glad about the violations. Granted, it made it easier to dislike RR and gave them another reason to oust him. If you are a true Michigan fan, however, you cannot be glad about the first "major" violations in the football program's history.
August 11th, 2011 at 10:40 AM ^
Maybe glad wasn't the right word but I definitely recall conversations with alumni where they relayed their distaste of RR and that these allegations would allow UM to fire him without having to buy out the rest of the contract.
August 11th, 2011 at 10:50 AM ^
The violations definitely made it easier for people to hate RR. I'm sure those alumni weren't glad that the violations happened. They just felt that if something bad were to happen, they would want it to happen to RR. It just gave them a more legitimate reason to hate. I see what you meant in your earlier post now.
August 11th, 2011 at 11:20 AM ^
I remember thinking it was the last straw - he has got to go. I wasn't into RR from the start, but I did want him to succeed and I loved watching his offense. The fact that we sucked, and sucked dirty (ooh that sounds kind of hot) was especially frustrating. To be clear, UMs problems vs OSU problems aren't comparable given the latter are far-far worse.
August 11th, 2011 at 11:35 AM ^
You waited ONE season before reaching the "last straw"? You must not have a very strong camel, 'cause that was August of '09. And at that point, the offense you loved to watch was TERRIBLE. And the violations were essentially shoddy bookkeeping and poor rule interpretation.
So, I guess what I'm saying is that your argument is invalid.
August 11th, 2011 at 8:33 PM ^
Don't ever compare the "violations"
Should not even be in the same sentence.
August 11th, 2011 at 10:32 AM ^
He is a tragic hero!
You know like Achilles, Hamlet or Anakin Skywalker (though most Ohio fans might only know of the latter).
August 11th, 2011 at 9:48 AM ^
Michigan fans were not as stalwart and osu is not being persecuted.
August 11th, 2011 at 11:47 AM ^
The questions have been answered.
/thread
August 11th, 2011 at 9:48 AM ^
I have to agree with above poster. I will never understand why fans spend so much time on another teams board. No offense Irish, but I just don't get it.
August 11th, 2011 at 9:52 AM ^
August 11th, 2011 at 9:57 AM ^
Bucknuts and RCMB are terrible places to get information (if you're into, you know, facts), and worse for rational discussions. But in terms of Schadenfreude...
August 11th, 2011 at 10:09 AM ^
I don't go for the facts and I don't go that often because the stupidity is only tolerable in small doses.
August 11th, 2011 at 10:43 AM ^
Stupid question, but how are we posting YouTube videos now? Everytime I copy the embed code and put it in the plain text editor it and switch back the post is blank. Did something change with the switch of the board a few months ago? I haven't tried posting a video in some time.
August 11th, 2011 at 11:14 AM ^
Sounds like you're doing it right. One exception is that it doesn't work in original posts (it only works in the comments after an OP).
August 11th, 2011 at 11:18 AM ^
Hmm, I wonder if it has something to do with Google Chrome or my computer then. It makes no sense to me.
August 11th, 2011 at 3:42 PM ^
And then often still blank when you save it. Refresh the page after saving, and let it fully load, and see if it's there then. That's how it usually works for me.
August 11th, 2011 at 8:33 PM ^
Hoke poops gold jerry, gold
August 11th, 2011 at 9:49 AM ^
But, Buckeye fans are as delusional as Gordon Gee. I don't think they really understand the gravity of the situation their football program is in. They stand by the man that wiill potentially sink their "rich and storied" team into the ground. You really can't expect it to be any different from them.
August 11th, 2011 at 9:53 AM ^
Here's what I think. I think we are seeing ESPN do the same thing with OSU as they do with the Red Sox and Yankees. Their have been moments where they have filler stories to keep OSU in the news because they are a "big market." Do I think they are witch hunting? Absolutely not. They are a business and know just how big and sexy this whole story is.
That being said, I don't think this is an instance where ESPN, "hates the Big Ten," or has a personal vendetta against Ohio State. The denial and delusion taking place at OSU is nothing new to me, as I have lived in Ohio my entire life. Buckeye fans are in a deep stage of denial and will be forever. Even after the sanctions are handed down, they will still be screaming, "What about Cam Newton!?!?!?!" and not realizing that has nothing to do with them. They feel as though they should be treated like an SEC team because of the money they bring into the NCAA.
Their misplaced logic with Jim Tressel is probably the most troubling thing about the psyche of the typical OSU fan. Everytime I hear a someone defending their beloved Senator (which is such a fitting description for him as so many government officials are crooked nowadays) they place their anger on Pryor. My favorite thing to throw in their face is that OSU fans love to say, "everyone cheats, we are just being targeted." Well their logic here is disturbing. If everyone cheats, how can you blame Pryor? Shouldn't Tress have taught them to cheat better? This boils their blood because they realize I just blew their mind and caught them in their stage of denial and displaced anger.
I feel like Michigan fans could never get to the point of OSU fans. We have too many deep thinkers among our fan base. OSU people tend to be knee jerk reaction and feel a sense of entitlement because their overall lack of winning in pro sports (I'm an all Cleveland fan, don't hate). They have one team in their life that wins, as I did at one point, and they defend that with their life. If OSU fails, they have nothing to look forward to in the sports world.
August 11th, 2011 at 10:00 AM ^
"I feel like Michigan fans could never get to the point of OSU fans. We have too many deep thinkers among our fan base."
Seriously?
Deep thinkers?
August 11th, 2011 at 10:03 AM ^
Deep thinkers, logical minds, define it how you want. All it means is that we don't jump the gun and start placing blame on anyone but ourselves.
August 11th, 2011 at 10:15 AM ^
makes us feel better to pretend that all of our fans are rationale and all of theirs are not, that's not reality.
It's best to avoid unsubstantial generalizations.
August 11th, 2011 at 10:24 AM ^
I can understand that. Nothing is perfect and it sounds very high brow to generalize us as a "more logical fanbase." However, having lived in 3 different Ohio cities, I've had a nice sample size of sports radio stations to study and I have heard personalities on each one saying that Michigan fans tend to be very knowledgeable and very rationale. Case in point, look at the unwritten rules of this blog regarding stupid name calling for OSU. We like to see them fail, but we don't "stoop to their level."
Clearly my opinions are biased, I'm just basing my previous comments off of living in Ohio and hearing OSU homers say how knowledgeable and rationale we are. Those same radio personalities will admit how crazy, excuse me they use the word "passionate," OSU fans are.
August 11th, 2011 at 10:36 AM ^
I also think we have a lot, many, who bought the Rich Rod is not from around here and is not like us so he needs to go meme - way too many.
August 11th, 2011 at 10:41 AM ^
I don't think ColumbusWolverine was trying to say that all UM fans are rational geniuses and that all TSIO fans are idiot blowhards or anything similarly broad. But I think it's undeniable that each fanbase has a personailty to it, and the character of the TSIO fanbase is much, much closer to the idiot blowhard pole than UM's is..
August 11th, 2011 at 11:24 AM ^
it's tough for us to be objective.
I have seen enough internet chatter regarding the worst/most annoying/most obnoxious/etc. fan bases in college football to know that we probably aren't as rationale of a fan base as some of us want to believe.
August 11th, 2011 at 4:10 PM ^
The "Free Press Jihad" thing was a creative way of accepting the blame? So other schools pointing at the media, saying "that's not true" and being on the wrong end of the readership/ratings grab is simply them being simpletons, of course.
Get your head out of your ass.
August 11th, 2011 at 12:30 PM ^
I think there are some differences between Michigan and OSU fans. The key distinction is that while OSU is basically the only game in town (in college sports) in Ohio, people here have two major options. This has a couple of consequences. First, if you didn't go to either U-M or MSU, you have to make a choice which one to root for, whereas in Ohio, rooting for OSU is the way to go with the flow. Also, Michigan fans, at least outside of Washtenaw County, generally have to interact with MSU fans on a regular basis and it forces them to see a rival perspective of their program. OSU fans can exist in a happy (or unhappy) bubble, unaware of how the outside views them. This may make them a little more provincial in their attitudes. With no other local comparison, to them, everything that goes on at OSU must be "normal" and to criticize that is therefore abnormal.
OTOH, the handful of OSU fans I've encountered here in Michigan, living outside that bubble, are generally pretty reasonable people.
August 11th, 2011 at 9:56 AM ^
I actually think as your post suggests, the overwhelming response (at least on this site) was similar. It was called the "jihad" by many, as if to suggest the press was waging war on the program. There were similar accusations of it being a "witch hunt". Now at the end of the day, if we take the NCAA ruling as the actual truth, history shows that the truth lay somewhere in the middle of the Freep allegations and what this site maintained (probably closer to the site).
So I don't think we should get on our high horse about the fan response. That being said, I think we do have ground to talk about the University response.
August 11th, 2011 at 10:40 AM ^
Brian Cook and MGoBlog did an amazing job, and performed an amazing service, in debunking the Free Press.
Now, I think Eleven Warriors is doing much the same. It's the one source I look to on matters pertaining to OSU.
Still, the situations are different.
In Michigan's case, the original allegations came from one single unofficial institution, using all-anonymous sources. (Forget Stokes and Hawthorne, who disowned the crooked use of their innocent and misconstrued statements.) Beyond any question, the reporters (Rosenberg and Snyder) got their story wrong, and they intended to provoke an NCAA investigation. That, in a word, equals "malice."
In Ohio State's case, the original allegations stemmed from an entirely coincidental source; U.S. Marshalls, incidental to a drugs investigation, performing a tax-related search under a federal warrant. No one, in the first instance, was out to get Ohio State or Jim Tressel. That investigation evolved, following one proven lead to another, organically.
In the meantime, OSU has exposed some of the same excesses, by over-eager and agenda-driven reporters that we saw here in Detroit and Ann Arbor. George Dohrmann, Rosenberg's colleague at Sports Illustrated, has been shown to have been less than honest and less than careful. Again, in that regard, Eleven Warriors and the other bloggers of their high quality have performed a great public service.
I continue to think as I always have about OSU and its investigation: the safe bet, in my mind, is that all of OSU's most extreme haters, and all of its media critics are likely to be the most sorely disappointed in the end, because with all of the hysterical allegations floating around, few of which are likely to ever be formally alleged by the NCAA, there is no punishment severe enough to satisfy.
The partisan passion/hatred spewed for and against Michigan at places like MLive and the disgraceful Freep.com comments pages aren't all that different from the passion/hatred spewed for and against Ohio State at other equivalent web pages. I don't see a whole lot of different between the two schools' fan bases, at the lowest levels. Just as I see a lot of admirable similarities (good Fisking of the mainstream sports media, and mature appraisals of their own programs) between Brian Cook & Co., and Eleven Warriors & Co. At their best, these websites have every good reason to claim that they are doing smarter, faster, and better reporting than the Rosenbergs, Sharps, Snyders, Dohrmanns, Freeps and SI's of the world.
August 11th, 2011 at 4:15 PM ^
Spot on.
August 11th, 2011 at 11:28 AM ^
UM fans weren't up in arms about the media. Their anger was directed towards the Freep, and mostly towards one writer. It's not farfetched to believe that their coverage was unfair and to question the motivation behind it.
OSU fans don't think ESPN is out to get them. They think the media is out to get them, ESPN SI and anyone else who covers their scandal. ESPN just broke the last piece of news and is going to give the most air time for the story. The next story will give them their next target.
August 11th, 2011 at 10:00 AM ^
I was enjoying the comments about how ESPN is full of UM and SEC grads over on 11W -- forget about Smith and Herbstreit. How many do we actually have over there other than Desmond and Schefty?
But to answer your post, remember this is the fan base that agreed with Smith's statement that a 2 game Tressel suspension was the disciplinary "sweet spot." 11W, which is by far their best site, has been in perpetual denial (much like the institution). They circle the wagons / turtle up just like SEC folks who have nothing else going on for them besides their football interests. Bucknuts and Ozone are rumor, innuendo and UM vitriol mills. There is nothing to see there, move along.
August 11th, 2011 at 10:04 AM ^
Dana Jacobson?
August 11th, 2011 at 10:07 AM ^
Well played. I'll add that one.
August 11th, 2011 at 10:53 AM ^
Isn't Rich Eisen a Michigan man?
August 11th, 2011 at 11:22 AM ^
Isn't he on the NFL Network, rather than ESPN, these days?
August 11th, 2011 at 12:05 PM ^
Rece Davis went to Alabama, but he used to work at a TV station in Flint, and he seems to have some residual goodwill towards us.
Also, Mike Tirico (Syracuse grad) lives in Ann Arbor, so obviously he's fond of the place.
August 11th, 2011 at 10:22 AM ^
OSU's paranoia about espn is a major distortion of the truth, since a vast number of media outlets all over the country--not just ESPN--- have been critical of their program. By contrast, the UM accusations came almost entirely from one source: the Freep. In fact, coaches and media all over the country said that UM's "practice" patterns would be found at most places. Craig James--not a UM fan-- even called the attacks on RR a "witch hunt". The NCAA now is even considering altering rules, so that schools accused on relatively small allegations--like UM--- would not be put through the same ordeal as those accused of major crimes--like OSU.
In any case, UM had considerable support for its objections to one media outlet. Its world view was shared by many. Whereas, OSU has received almost universal condemnation. Its world view is idiosycratic. That is the hallmark of paranoia.
Finally, you don't need to be a UM fan to see that there is a big difference between not counting a few minutes of extra "stretching" as "practice"--like UM-- and overt lying to the NCAA about player eligibility for an entire season--like OSU.
August 11th, 2011 at 10:42 AM ^
If the NCAA grew some balls and actually called a spade a spade, I'd sit back and enjoy the implosion over Columbus, and all of Ohio for that matter. As it is, I sort of side with them on the issue. Much ado about nothing.......until hard evidence and a NOA which includes LOIC is personally handed to Gene Smith and Gordon Gee while they enjoy their french cuisine at The Refectory.