Don't like this post? Downvote it, oh wait you have less than imaginary negative internet points to harm me with.
But srsly, can we have them back? Now that it's offseason, let's get back to what truly matters: MGoPoints.
Posbanging, not as much.
I'm going to have to start being more cautious with what I'm saying.
Haha I was wondering how long it was going to take until this thread was posted after the season got over.
I have been biding my time.
"King of Belch," was it neg-bangs or ban-hammers that did him in?
The neg-bang is a two-edged sword -- it can give voice to righteousness or sheep-like conformity. That said, I did enjoy the occasional meltdown or pos-bang.
I think it was the ban-hammer; I seem to remember a mod replying to a comment saying "This was the one that did it". I miss that crazy old bastard though.
posting on this blog, I said something unpopular and wound up in the negative... but I climbed out. It doesn't take too much effort to understand the general mood of this board.
There is no perfect system. It is inevitable that a quality poster will get neg banged due to group think, a misunderstanding, or a one time lapse in judgement. However, IMO, it is a sacrifice I'm willing to make to improve the quality of posts on this board.
FTR, the comment that set me back but pretty mild compared to some of the garbage posts that get thrown up daily.
Also, FWIW, I emailed Brian to express some frustration with the current system, and he responded that a tweaking was in the plans post football season.
If I had enough points, you'd get may pobang!! fer' sure, ya' betcha' !!
I'm boycotting MGoBlog unless neg/pos banging comes back.
/checks MGoBlog 5 minutes later
I'm intrigued by your ideas, and wish to subscibe to your newsletter.
can someone explain what difference this makes. I've read the rules and know you can down/upvote after a certain number of points, so what would bringing these things back change?
Under the old system, a person's Mgopoints fluctuated up and down in correspondance to the upvotes or downvotes their post was given from other members. As of now, your Mgopoints only go up 1 point for every post.
Exhibits A through ZZ and 1A through Z million as to why we need the negbang back.
I really miss them. It was awesome when somebody would post something ridiculous and watch helplessly as their point total evaporated. Conversely it was waaaay cool when you'd say something pithy or snarky and people could upvote your wit.
It was one hell of an effecient policemen in keeping crap off the board and encouraging people with something to say to say it. If I remember correctly it was collateral damage in the great malware disaster of '11. Nobody wanted it gone and for a while Brian promised it would come back once he got a handle on all the other issues he was dealing with at the time. I'll bet if we put it to a vote it would drop 9-1 in favor of restoration.
Bring it back Brian......bring it back!
You are 100 percent spot on with your analysis.
While Brian is at it is it possible to move trusted user status up to 1000?
The posbang and negbangs disappeared during the great crash last year. Are you guys willing to pony up some cash to Brian in order to have this restarted? Afterall, likely requires some programming costs, so put your money where your posts and mouth are!
WHEN THE HINDENBURG CRASHED, DID WE AS HUMANS SAY FLIGHT WAS IMPOSSIBLE??? NO!!!!
But quit yelling....you're ruining my quiet dinner with my wife.
I'm sure being on your iPad is just adding to the intimacy of your evening
WHAT IF THE DELANCEY'S COME OUT SINGIN', WILL WE HEAR IT???
until we decide it is!!! Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? Hell No......
But we did say zeppelin travel was done.
WHEN THE GERMANS BOMBED PEARL HARBOR?!!!!!
I have a feeling we have the current system because it was free to implement and largely met Brian's goals. If he's open to reverting to the old system (?) I'd like to see how much it would cost. Probably a couple thousand dollars depending on how good a deal he can get on a developer.
"Points. We don't need no stinking points"
Oh wait yes I do.
upvotes : me : : green eyed beauty : Lo Pan
I remember learning quite a bit about the ins and outs here based on which posts were soundly negged and which ones were upvoted. This was a valuable life experience and I think others would benefit.
My pithy sarcasm and enhanced writing capability are not due to Great Books, but rather that most-difficult of tutors, the MGoBlog community.
I would be out of points in five minutes. I need a sarcasm font! F!
How about we bring back upvotes and downvotes? I know Brian likes it, but the reaction to the new moderation system has been overwhelmingly negative. Upvotes and downvotes are much better, and the vast majority of mgobloggers feel this way.
the old system is fairly exhaustively explained in the MgoBoard FAQ and comments there; has the new system ever been clearly explained anywhere? Part of my discomfort with the new system is just from not really understanding how it works.
Someone did finally explain the "moderate" button to me. How about "karma?"
Karma is a reward/punishment for having consistently good/bad posts. If the vast majority of my comments were upvoted, at some point my comments would just start with a score of 2 instead of 1. Conversely, if I prove to be a terrible commenter and most of my posts are downvoted, my new posts will start with a score of 0. It's easy to move back and forth (negative karma isn't a death sentence), and it is a good way of highlighting good posts.
the problem with it was if you wrote something contrarian, but it based in fact, you still were neg-banged to bolivian just because your post didn't positively reflect on the program, coach player or decision of the day. It did stifle free speech to a point.
Now, I will agree there is way too much ridiculousness on the board these days and some of the more insightful posters have left the building, but I think that was due more to the harshness of the negativity towards some subjects as opposed to too many free opinions flying around the board.
btw, I negbanged the OP cuz that was them thar direkshuns.
might be possible. Something along the lines of posbang/negbang, plus senior overlords. This could be where the average poster could posbang/negbang all they would like. However, senior posters--with let's say above 1500 points--could correct the situation or give points as is done now. This way all the fun of banging, but the free speech security of old people.
what about new-comers with clearly plainspoken ideas on sensitive topics? (Perhaps someone with background knowledge coming from outside the Mgoblogosphere?) Some of the most interesting albeit controversial observations from commenters came before the pos/neg-bang system, around the time of Carr's last season. There hasn't been a lot of commentary from people with deep background coming from outside the Mgoblog family since that time.
Some of the RR-related flame wars indicate that senior overlords may not be the short-cut to serene governance. One of the more distressing sights under any system is the sight of oldtimers with points in the 10,000's slinging ad-hominems at each other.
Once someone loses 100 points is there a real difference? I also would propose something along the lines of a cap on how much one post could be neg/pos banged.
I don't know that contrarian posts necessarily got blown up...I repped my Canadian team at the 2010 Olympics and the board was completely reasonable. I never underestimate the common sense of the board.
The democracy of the neg isn't based upon harshness of negativity; it's about blowign up posts that suck.
brian always makes site improvements after football season. maybe this will be one of them.
It was fun to see a humorous post get 25 posbangs.
I don't care what Brian does on this. There are positives and negatives both. What I don't really like is that it makes mgoblog into a beauty contest. Probably shouldn't be commenting anyway.
Or 1 person go around and downvote everything in this thread, that's fine too.
Edit: upvoted everyone to restore comment point equilibrium.
Yes, please let's go back to the old system of all votes counting and Neg-Banging for free. Once this well performing and fun system was abandoned in favor of a sequence of changes that each each made things worse, the quality of comments deteriorated as the incentive for only making quality post completely went away. At this point, the comments are not even worth reading anymore and that is sad as this was once the strong point of the site.
Dwellers away. Check out mlive and all the lost opposition that post mindless comments without such a system.
Bring 'em back, but with a ceiling and a floor. You can only go up so many points or down so many points for a single post.
Think New Jersey, not Bolivia. You have to really earn your way to Bolivia over the course of multiple irritating posts.
Anybody can have a bad post. We want to save the negbangs to Bolivia for bad people.
Previously, a horrendous comment may get -50 at very worst, and that's if its offensive and borderline ban-worthy. You can get out of that hole in a dozen good comments, its hardly Bolivia. Capping comments makes voting less satisfying, and makes skimming through threads more difficult when all of the good comments are capped at 5 (say, if I only have time to see the great ones in a thread with 100 comments).
the few Bolivian level negged posts were a thing of beauty.
Welcome to imaginary Bolivian. I too, would like to join in a negbang!
I still think there needs to be a deduction for neg-banging. I think that is reasonably effective in discouraging people from negging posts just because they disagree, rather than reserving the negs for truly inappropriate or trolling posts.
Otherwise it's prone to abuse and enforce group-think. I would start X at 5, and perhaps increase it with certain thresholds.
I'd cap the number of free +1s as well to make it more difficult to upvote your own posts with sock puppets.
Both good ideas. I agree.
Neg bangs scare me. Just being honest.
Well, that, poor spelling, and that one guy who negs everything. Other than those, you're in fine shape!
It was like setting the sky on fire during flamewars. Epic stuff.
As you can see, I can't afford to lose any of those things we were not supposed to talk about. At this rate I should hit 5 figures in 19 years. How about an interest-earning account? That should help me reach retirement age. Please pardon my karma level of 1.
The current system is designed to moderate the content, while the old system was designed to moderate the users. Moderating the content should work in theory, but the issue comes with determining how many downvotes are required to collapse a post. Then, when a post gets collapsed, there should be no incentive to read the collapsed post because that's the whole point of having this system. This means the current system has 2 problems with it:
--The threshold to collapse a post is too low, even for people with good (2) karma.
--After a post was collapsed, readers have 2 reasons to read the collapsed post anyway; to make sense of any replies to said collapsed post, and to judge if the post was rightfully collapsed (often; this wasn't the case as given by the low threshold).
To fix the current system, the threshold to collapse a post needs to require more downvotes to ensure enough readers want it collapsed (I actually think a dynamic threshold would work best), and, once a post gets collapsed, it should be unreadable to anyone, along with all posts that replied to it. If this is too difficult to enact, going away from the current system would also work.
OTOH, the old point system gave users an incentive to add something useful and/or worth reading to the board/comments in that they could amass enough points to unlock additional privileges on the website. The downside to this system is that unpopular material was often viewed as inappropriate material and downvoted instead of refuted, and point inflation due to unnecessary posbang threads. While these was a real problem, the point of self-moderation is such that neutral parties or people in agreement with the negged user can act to prevent wrongful negging. Thus, a giant negbomb shouldn't be the result of "I disagree" unless it showcases user ignorance.
The only way I can see to completely prevent wrongful negging and useless point inflation is through moderator interference such as removing all point swings from a thread or removing and penalizing a user for starting posbang threads. Also, negs have to be free.
I didn't think it were possible to write a doctoral thesis on pos/negbanging. Today you have proved me wrong. My compliments
As someone who lurked for a long time before actually joining here, I'd say that it isn't a great idea to make negged comments unreadable. Only the mods should be able to do that. There's no real reason to make them unreadable. If I see a comment at -13, if I read it, it's my own fault, knowing full well that it was going to be proposterously bad.
I'd be in favor of a pos/negbang situation in which you could be posbanged limitlessly, but negbangs would bottom out at 5. That'd stop people from destroying users needlessly for one stupid post. On the other hand, if someone has a really really good post, I don't think that there should be a limit on how much others want to show their appreciation. And yes, in my world, pos/negbangs would actually count for and against MGoPoints
Brian is a practicing dictator, and wants to hold onto power with his 45,000 points! We must overcome! Bourgeoisie uber alles!
Just write "I love michigan" and you will never get Neg-banged
I don't know whether this is technically feasible, but it seems to me that an ideal voting system would allow two separate types of votes for each comment: an agree vs disagree, and a separate flag for original/well reasoned vs waste of space. An example of where this would be useful: someone posts a picture of M fans at the Sugar Bowl holding up signs referring to Michigan State, commenting that they love/hate these signs. MGoDenizens could then agree/disagree that they love/hate these signs separately from indicating whether the poster has added something useful to the discussion about them, or simply re-hashed something that's already been discussed ad nauseam.
Speaking also of technical feasibility: any way we can get voting added to the MGoDroidApp?
I agree 100%. Seeing people neg well reasoned, interesting comments that they happen to disagree with is irritating - and I think increasingly common around here.
I would really like to have posbangs, at least a max of five points, I work very hard for some of my comments. All kidding aside, it would be pretty cool, but we cant have people being like "OMGZZ I GOT MOAR POINTZ THAN U I M SO MUCH MOAR BETTER THAN U!!!!1" and the people that are like "I DISAGREE WIF UR OPNION SO I NEGBANG U!!!1"
Also it would be cool if we could actually view all of our old posts from our accounts, whenever i hit page 2 it just goes to the latest board entries. I like going back and seeing my comments for some reason, DONT JUDGE.
Viva la pos bang