Blaming Steve Bartman is ridiculous. One play doesn't decide a series. The Cubs made several errors after that. Fine, call it a curse. Cubs fans get off on calling it a curse. That's their whole identity.
OT:ESPN 30 for 30 Steve Bartman on tonight
I am Steve Bartman. And those were borrowed headphones.
because I am Steve Bartman! And the green turtleneck was my lucky charm.
The guy deserves a freaking break. The Cubs would have found another way to fail. I've always thought that this was a defense mechanism and copout of projecting anger on Bartman for the Cubs long history of ineptitude.
That being said, should be a good show.
The Cubs have won 3 of the last 8 or 9 division titles. By contrast, the Brewers just won their first since 1982. Such ineptitude.
The Cubs: the epitome of a successful modern franchise.
I heard he declined to be interviewed. I always wondered why they singled him out. There was about four other people that went for the ball too.
Hasn't Moises Alou said that he probably wouldn't have made the catch? But thanks for the reminder.
going after the out of the frame and it showed that Alou would have most likely caught the ball.
Hasn't Moises Alou said that he probably wouldn't have made the catch? But thanks for the reminder.
Yeah, IIRC, he said looking back at the replay he had no shot at getting to that ball.
I don't know if he had it, but he certainly had a shot at it. Would have been a hell of a play, I'd say 50/50 at best.
On the show, Alou says that he absolutely KNOWS he would have caught it. Cameras show there is a pretty good shot he would have caught it too. That being said, I'm fairly disgusted by the Cubs fans in the videos. Hearing them yell at the poor guy, the shit they said was unexcusable.
Not only did he catch that foul ball, but he bobbled the next ball that lead to a guy getting on base and then he gave up the next double or whatever that scored the run.
Also lost on Cubs fans is the fact that it would have only been 2 outs. If it were for three outs, I could understand the anger directed at him.
because it was only the 8th inning. Alex Gonzalez should be the Bill Buckner of the Cubs for botching the easy double play that would have ended the inning and prevented the eight runs the Marlins ended up scoring. Also, where is the sense of responsibility from the players. I didn't hear one pitcher who gave up some of the big hits to the Marlins in that inning say "it wasn't the fan's fault, it was mine for giving up the hits." And Dusty Baker was classless in the postgame interview blaming Bartman too. It's pathetic that all these cushy pro athletes only think about covering their asses and putting the blame on an innocent young guy like Bartman who by all accounts seems like a really good guy... I just hope he doesn't root for the Cubs anymore... Maybe he's become a Marlins fan.
Pretty sure Bartman was not interviewed for the documentary. Also pretty sure he's still in Florida or somewhere in hiding.
As a Cubs fan, depressed but proud, I do not blame Steve Bartman. Admittedly, I did blame him for a total of about 90 seconds when the play first happened (I was only 15 at the time). But let's not forget what happened afterward (as you'll learn or be reminded of from the documentary). In that same at bat, Alex Gonzalez dropped a sure-fire double play ball that would have ended the inning. Even then, we were sitll winning that game. Next, Dusty Baker left in Mark Prior, even though he was clearly rattled and had essentially thrown every pitch his arm was capable of throwing.
Also, even after the collapse of Game 6, WE STILL HAD GAME 7. And we had Kerry Wood starting in Game 7, one of the more dominant pitchers that year when his arm still functioned properly (notice the theme?) I have no ill will towards Steve Bartman, and I feel awful about the treatment he's received since that game. It's unfair to him and his family that some people really blame him for the ineptitude of a professional short stop, a stubborn manager, and the immaturity of Moises Alou. Just thought I'd thrown in a Cubs fan perspective
I was mad at the fans for about as long as it took me to say what the hell. I was and am still pissed at the way Alou reacted. Alex Gonzalez????
Such an enigma. Wish he was interviewed for this film. Would love to hear the words from his mouth...
I never give Rudies a break. Typical Domer Geek
I think he'll be on Dancing With The Stars next year.
Half that game is 90% mental. If Moises Alou hadn't thrown such a hissy fit, fox wouldn't have shown so many replays of it, the whole stadium wouldn't have reacted the way they did, and the players wouldn't have just completely lost their edge.
with the crowds reaction as Wrigley Field has no jumbotron of any sort for the crowd to see the replay of his reaction.
Half that game is 90% mental??????? WHAT???
The best part about the Bartman incident was the difference 4 seconds makes.
When the ball was going into the stands about 8 people were fighting like ravenous baboons to get in a position to catch it. Bartman touches the baseball, and all of those baboon people, who 4 seconds earlier were fighting Bartman for it, are glaring at him with murderous rage, and ultimately blame him for the game 6 collapse.
People who get that upset over a sporting event they have nothing to do with are pathetic humans and should be prohibited from procreation. I watch sports in my free time and I get very upset sometimes, but it's just a game and the point of being a fan is to ENJOY it. The day I become that ridiculous as a spectator is the day I need to find something more productive to do with my free time.
When I watch games in my living room, I yell at players, coaches, refs, and AMSHG. But when the game ends, it's over. I go on with life.
Sure, some stuff sticks with me for a while, like The Horror, the Evan Turner bomb, and OH MY GOD PITCH IT TO BREASTON, but I don't take it personally. I don't actually hold it against Tyler Ecker as a person. It's just a game.
With that said... PITCH THE BALL, MAN...
I had successfully repressed that memory you asshole.
Just watching that reaction again, I am positive he WAS in danger. Those people are despicable.
Even if Bartman didn't touch that ball, who thinks that Alou was guaranteed to catch that? MA wasn't an elite fielder. And Gonzalez....
To this day, I will feel worse for Bartman than the Cubs or any of those fans
The last hour is unbelievable. You walk away feeling bad for the guy.
Jesus, this guy got the shortest end of the longest stick. I watched the game on TV, and if it weren't for my northsider wife who JUMPED UP AND DOWN ON THE SOFA at that moment, it would never have clicked that someone could actually blame this guy.
Ok, the Ministor thing on the definition of Scapegoats, is dragging this out a little long.
I say f**k Alex Gonzalez. Top fielding percentage in the national league that year and boots an easy double play ball right after that. He's the real scapegoat to smart fans.
Half of it ended up being about the Red Sox with some Yankees sprinkled in.
I wanted the Red Sox to finally win a World Series so Ben Affleck could shut the hell up about the curse.
the Red Sox to finally win a World Series so Ben Affleck could to shut the hell up about the curse.
I noticed the same thing. This bullshit ESPN/Bill Simmons Boston bias. Nobody ooutside of Boston cares about the Red Sox. I think the only reason they turned the documentary about Bartman into a Red Sox-fest is that they couldn't land the big interview with Bartman himself. Since he turned them down they needed to talk to someone who experienced some sort of backlash like Bartman so they turned to Buckner. That said, they went overboard with the Red Sox crap and if I were a Cubs fan I'd have been pissed that the BoSox were hijacking my documentary/misery.
Leave it to Simmons to start off by turning a Chicago story into something about Boston. I mean really, luv ya Dennis Leary, but after the decade Boston has had, you have no right to hang your head about past tortures. If Michigan wins 5 National Titles or something, I promise not to complain about the Horror anymore.
I lived in Boston for a few years. You couldn't go 5 minutes without some [email protected] bringing up Bill Simmons or the Sox...
And the people that blame him are the same people that would go after a foul ball under any circumstance anyway....
Well, had you watched the program, they don't blame Bartman at all. They cover all of the other aspects as well.
Really interesting, i didnt watch baseball that wasnt the tigers back in those days, and i just moved to wrigleyville about two months ago. I feel really bad for that guy, i guess more red sox than neccessary but it did drag out by the end, i dont think the topic provided enough material for a full 90 minutes. By the way that lawyer/mystery novel writer who claimed that he wouldnt have reached for the ball if he was there was a douche.
Very interesting. I liked that they used Bill Buckner as such an analogy and kept coming back to him on interviews. If they couldn't get Bartman, that was probably the next best thing. That said, I didn't find it a truly changing documentary like some of the others have been. The guy next to Bartman is still hedging his statements to this day, "Yeah, I was going for it, ... till I saw Alou's glove", and the whole thing about the interviewer tracking down Bartman never really went anywhere. Without actually getting the interview, that's a dead end.
I heard that Bartman and Salman Rushdie were hanging out together.
Now that's rich. And the glee some of them still take in being assholes. This is why sports fans suck.
Sorry, this is why people suck. 8 runs because of one play. The only person who doesn't look bad in this IS Bartman.
BUT oh well.... Steve Bartman and being taken to every game for the last 13 years at the Big House made me a sports fan. Sure in 2003, I was 8 and I was a Michigan fan but I really didnt get into it that much until I saw this. I remember it so well. I was watching it with my Dad and pleaded him to turn off baseball but he didn't and I sat there and pouted and just watched the TV.... Then when it happened I remember my dad saying that guy's life was changed because of a sport. I felt so bad for him that I said I would root against the Marlins from there on and I went on to root for the Yankees in the World Series and they lost. I was so upset and thought back to the little nerdy guy with the TurtleNeck guy and what my Dad said about how sports changed his life. And from that point on I watched every bit of coverage on the whole story on ESPN. I became the kid that would watch SportsCenter all day. I also became the biggest Yankee Fan and started to actually follow Michigan Football intensly. Without Steve Bartman, the Cubs might be World Champs, I might be a nerdy book reader, and I might not be the Michigan Fanatic I am today. BRING ON THE COOL STORY BRO COMMENTS
whoa you didn't even get a cool story bro. you just got nothing. except this pointing out you got nothing. damn i think that's worse.
There probably is now. And it'll be there until Bartman decides to forgive the city of Chicago for what they did to his life. As for the Cubs that night, if you can't hold yourself together when it's 1 out, 2 strikes in the 8th and you're up 3-0, you sure as hell don't deserve to go the Series.
Maybe Bartman's parents will sell him for $100,000 and we can blow him up, thats how you end curses right?
And boil it down and make spaghetti sauce or whatever they did. I could go for some Bartmann spaghetti or maybe a Bartman steak sandwich.
Canabalism is ok right?
you have to drive a wooden stake through his heart.
When they did it to the goat.
I was a Sophomore at UM that fateful October evening. Sitting in my house on State Street watching with some friends from home, I remember laughing hysterically as soon as the Bartman thing happened (as an aside; I'm a big White Sox fan from the north side so all my high school friends are Cubs fans). As a lifelong Chicagoan, you just knew in that instant, before the Gonzalez boot, that it was over. Very strange feeling watching that game. As memorable to me as when the Sox won the world series a couple years later (which frankly is sad).
All that said, the Fab 5 documentary was more interesting. For all the complaints about ESPN, these films are all really well made and memorable.
I'm a Cubs fan and after seeing the footage from the game I'm a bit ashamed to be a fan of that team. The Cubs suck so people need to stop blaming Bartman. If you give up 8 runs in an inning you have no business playing in a World Series.
0-16, Mike Utley paralyzed, Eric Andolsek ran over while mowing his lawn, Chuck HUghes dying on the field, Reggie Brown nearly paralyzed versus the Jets, Reggie and Charles Rogers, Matt Millen...need I say more?
No franchise in America comes close to the LIons for being cursed. No one.
the Lions have been pretty pathetic since Barry walked away, but they are not even close to the Cubs.
The Lions dominated the NFL in the 50's winning 3 NFL Championships, and again in 35.
The Cubs have not won a World Series since 1908 and in that span have lost 7 of them.S
Since going to game 7 in the Bartman series (I blame that series loss on having Neifi Perez) they have made it to the playoffs twice, and got swept out both of them.
Also got swept the time before the Bartman playoffs.
Since winning the World Series the Cubs have a total of 18 wins in 13 playoff appearances, and that includes 7 trips to the World Series.
Thats far worse than the Lions
Yeah, well has the Billy Goat killed or maimed anyone? I think not.
This comment is beyond stupid. You think the fucking Lions are an inept franchise? Oh noes, we haven't won a championship in 54 years! Talk to me when you hit 100.
The most disturbing part of that whole series were the clips of fans calling into the sports talk radio station saying they were going to track down Bartman and murder him; and the radio host having to talk them off the ledge. Chilling. If karma exists, then Cubs fans should have to endure another 100 years without a World Series appearance for their mistreatment of Steve Bartman.
The most amazing part of his story is the multiple offers and opportunities he's had to profit off his infamy and he's taken none of it. Steve Bartman is a class, character guy. Chicago isn't good enough for him.
Right, because there aren't any Detroit fans of any sports that get overheated after a loss. Especially a loss in the playoffs. Let me just head over to any Tigers sports blog after a meltdown.
That everybody has their crazies. But in this case the few crazies that were out there didn't really do anything. There was no riot. He was threatened, etc. but once he was out of the stadium... the damn media made a field day out of it. Putting his name and address out there? He was just a normal looking guy. Get contacts and don't wear a hat w/headphones and no one would have known who he was. The fact that Buckner felt he had to forgive the media was a good twist in my eyes, and IMHO the media wronged Bartman more than anyone else did.
I watched it last night and it was really sad how people reacted (and still do) towards him. The guy has to live the rest of his life in hiding for doing the exact same thing that everyone else around him was doing.
Full disclosure - I'm a cubs fan, have been forever, and was a Junior in high school when it happened.
The film was hard to watch. At times it definitely dragged, I thought it was good to parallel Buckner - his error was in game 6 too, but yes they focused too much on Boston. Fuck Boston. They've won. I remember watching game 5 with my dad and saying "It's fine that we lost. We have Prior and Wood going the next two games, we'll be fine. They're two of the best pitchers in baseball."
And it was true. I'm now pretty ashamed to say I (along with half my high school) was Bartman for Halloween that year, but I never felt the rage or vitriol that spewed from the stadium, that was hard to watch. The fans chanting "we'll kill you!" or the people throwing beers, that I didn't remember, and that was terrible. I remember Gonzo's error, and I think that the "Bartman Play" did have a HUGE effect on the game, but because of attitude. The city/team was really tight, and they did tighten up more and blow it after the foul ball. I didn't like the ending of the film, I prefer to think of another what-if scenario. What if Alou had a reaction like Gallaraga did? What if Prior had told Alou "No big deal" turned around and calmly kept pitching like Gallaraga? The players were looking for an out, and they took it. Had Alou not freaked out, or Prior not focused on the "fan interference" and just focused on his next pitch, whole different sports world.
The framing with Boston at the beginning was acceptable, because the director was from Boston (what, there are no directors from Chicago? Riiiiggghhhtttt). But at the end it was just filler. This should have been 90 minutes, max. The end really dragged.
Second, it's how you handle adversity. How you handle it has more to do with success than the adversity itself. (See Hoke at the end of the ND game, vs. Kelly's meltdowns).
And let me add, you have nothing to be ashamed of. Dressing as Bartman for Halloween? That's HOW you handle non-tragedy tragedies. You make a joke out of it, and have a laugh. A whole Halloween Party of Bartman's? Funny. And a nice way to share in your grief. Nothing wrong with that.
You know, as long as you didn't add a noose or a knife in the back to the costume.
He's the fan walking around behind Bartman and threw beer all over Bartman and the people close by. Then he wanted to fight Bartman. He gets on ESPN last night (getting his 5 minutes of fame) and has a stupid smile while talking about his part in the fiasco. He still didn't feel bad or sorry. He still thinks Bartman was to blame. Yea, iliked to notch slap the guy . Think his name is James Cuthbert.
I was watching with my son last night and I remarked how much I wanted to smack that smirk off his face with a 2 x 4.
That if Bartman was 6'4" and big, or even if he looked less like a total geek, the response (at least in the stadium) would have been somewhat different. You couldn't script a scapegoat any better - someone in his own world at the game, listening to his headphones, and looking like a total toolbag.
Of course, if Moises Alou doesn't act like a petulant 6-year-old after the play, it's a total non-issue.
that would have ran into a sobering thought if it was some guy who would stomp you into the ground if you threatened him.