OT..Effect of steriods on college FB
People on this board are generally pissed regarding the state of college football affairs. I am. This generally stems from some combination of the three following factors: 1 We have been underperfoming for a decade or more; 2 we seem to be playing on an uneven playing field given the shenanigans we've seen at OSU, Auburn, Ole Miss ad infinitum (this is compounded by our general pride in not going down those roads to compete...we'll win and we'll do it right); 3 general feelings that the whole mess is just getting worse everywhere ie ticket prices/licenses etc, amateurism/player pay/ coaching salaries, stadium experience, etc.
So here's my thought.... one of these days we're gonna hear about a major steriod abuse scandal ... Many players clearly use these substances as evidenced by their crazy weight gains and the fact that no one ever gets caught/punished. If there was any effective controls on steroids, clearly we'd hear about someone getting popped from time to time... we don't.
When this bit of cheating comes to light, whether we are involved or not, will it be a "last straw" for college football fans?
January 14th, 2014 at 1:44 PM ^
Explain?
January 14th, 2014 at 1:56 PM ^
As in those players took steroids.
January 14th, 2014 at 3:10 PM ^
In his book, Mandarich admits he was the "hook-up" for 15 players. I guess they beat the test in Pasadena with rubber dog toys clenched between their cheeks. No, I am not making this up.
http://www.darksideofgreen.com/2013/04/tony-mandarich-was-si-cover-boy-24.html
January 14th, 2014 at 2:31 PM ^
My high school weightroom had a big poster with The Bulldozer Tony Mandarich on it. He had tattoos before tattoos were cool.
January 14th, 2014 at 3:58 PM ^
came out about Max Bullough?
January 14th, 2014 at 3:58 PM ^
came out about Max Bullough?
January 14th, 2014 at 1:45 PM ^
I would prefer that PEDs not be in sports, but I am realistic enough to realize that they are everywhere. The PED principle is pretty simple: If there is a benefit to taking PEDs, people will take them. If they are not frequently caught, the PED-users will become the best players.
Football is a sport where size, strength, and speed are all assets that translate directly into dollars, and PEDs can influence those attributes significantly. Therefore, I have little doubt that they are widespread in the sport; unfortunately, even in college and perhaps high school. Testing is a bit of a limiting factor, but only a bit--smart dopers never get caught.
Sure, some guys do get caught, but it's always because they made a mistake. Ryan Braun had passed many tests before he flunked; he got caught because he messed up. That's all.
January 14th, 2014 at 1:51 PM ^
and accusations. FIrst, a lot of people are NOT pissed about the state of affairs in college football, as you put it. I think people are pissed about UM's performance, but college football is just great, if you ask me.
Second, as far as college football players using banned substances is concerned, I think it is far less than it used to be. Look up Tony Mandarich on internet. Here is a classic case of someone who was on steriods while at college but the moment he showed up at NFL and had to stop using steriods, he just shrunk and became the biggest bust in NFL history.
These days, college players are extensively tested while at college and then during the NFL combines (if they are good enough). I think the game is much cleaners that it used to be.
January 14th, 2014 at 1:57 PM ^
College players are extensively tested while at college? Says who?
January 14th, 2014 at 2:35 PM ^
January 15th, 2014 at 8:06 AM ^
Then you are the anomally many go through their entire career and are never tested. That NCAA bus pulled up at BG once in 3.5 years.
What happens is we (athletic trainers) get a fax from the NCAA with a list of names. We call those players the night before and tell them to be in at 6 am to tinckle.
Keep in mind ALL athletes at BG were tested 1-2 times a year...but those are NOT for PED's.
there are 420,000 student athletes. Each year 10,000-15,000 will be tested by the NCAA for all drugs including PED's.
January 14th, 2014 at 2:37 PM ^
college players were randomly tested and about 1% tested positive. The test is conducted with 48 hours notice. So it should pick up most PED's. About 90% of NCAA schools have a random drug testing program.
Is there drug use? Yes. Even the NCAA agrees that 1%-2% of players use PEDs and the percentage is much higher among football players -- size and weight are more important to them. To say that it is wide spread is a stretch.
January 14th, 2014 at 4:18 PM ^
Here are a couple of links.
NY Times Article - Colton Houston
If you search for football "packing on significant weight", you will see the same article regurgitated for going on 3 years now, to the tune of 110,000 hits. If you read a few of the articles, even the ones that did not copy it verbatim used portions of it - very, very few have done their own work. 1 researcher and 100,000 chicken littles do not make a problem bigger than it is. Now, I'm not in favor of steriod use, and PED testing in any sport has a hard time staying in front of drug development, but to imply there is no testing is ridiculous.
By sheer coincidence, relative to general noise vs fact, this just popped across a while ago. Another media outlet trying to invent a problem rather than report on a problem. 
Drug test their fact checkers. MT @gregaiello: Did MSNBC really say the NFL has no testing program for PEDs? Do 14,000 tests a year count?
— Matthew Hasselbeck (@Hasselbeck) January 14, 2014
January 14th, 2014 at 4:23 PM ^
Who implied that there is no testing?
January 14th, 2014 at 4:48 PM ^
little dictionary of course, but if you look up the definition of "says who", I think you can discover it for yourself. I will note that I neglected to include "extensive" in my post, but I don't think that really changes the tone of your initial post.
January 14th, 2014 at 10:17 PM ^
Ok. I mean you're completely wrong, but that's cool.
January 14th, 2014 at 2:08 PM ^
January 14th, 2014 at 2:26 PM ^
January 14th, 2014 at 2:29 PM ^
I think players are bigger now because they play more video games, high fructose corn syrup, and GMOs.
January 14th, 2014 at 2:49 PM ^
Another classmate of mine got caught with them at the combine and he wrote an apology saying he only used them to rehab an arm injury. His teammates, my roommates, said he'd been using since high school just never caught.
My roommate, now in the NFL, says about 7-8 guys per team are hardcore users in NCAA. You don't always know who they are though because steroids don't automatically make you good. Not to mention they can contribute significantly to knee injuries so some of the most hardcore users spend their career on the bench.
Lastly, as mentioned below, I was tested often as were athletes from all sports. My guess is it's easy to beat random urine/hair tests with masking agents but I don't know.
January 14th, 2014 at 2:59 PM ^
January 14th, 2014 at 2:50 PM ^
I think its used alot in college but guys know when the test is coming. I had buddy play D1 ball and he was on it and he said it was cake to pass the tests. Ask Bosa how easy it is to pass the tests.
January 14th, 2014 at 3:00 PM ^
the crazy weight/ strength gains are for 2 reasons:
1) The kids are growing into men and this is normal
2) They went from their gym teacher and whatever their weight room was in HS to professional S&C coaches with top of the line equipment.
This is to be expected
January 14th, 2014 at 3:24 PM ^
If you listen to the recent sixty minutes program, you will see how usual steroid testing programs can be easily circumvented. The matter is made even worse in college, where the programs and penalties of individual schools for drug use vary enormously. “Schools are not required to notify the NCAA of failed tests and with so much at stake when it comes to wins and losses, some coaches and schools aren't willing to put too much on the line by taking drug testing seriously.”*
*One of the worst seems to have been the Univ of Fla program under a coach who recently moved to Ohio. The school would not reveal how many positive drug tests occurred in one of this coach’s national-title-winning athletes. They reportedly did not test him more frequently for PEDs despite violent behaviors which may be fostered by PEDs (an arrest for assaulting a bartender as well as an incident where someone was shot in the head by a person fitting his description—even though the player refused to speak to police about the incident). That player is now in jail and suspected for three other murders.
January 14th, 2014 at 3:25 PM ^
In one important sense, the steroid problem is even worse than the now highly publicized concussion problem. Yes, concussions are a serious problem. They may damage a number of individual athletes. Yet, their potential damage is limited to those who have concussions. No such limits apply to steroids. Steroid use by one athlete pressures everyone else to use. Knowing that opponent A uses them, player B feels pressure to use them just to keep competitive. When he does so, player C then feels the same pressure. And so on for player D, then player E….ad infinitum. So, the problem quickly becomes endemic to the game as a whole. Not only does this create an uneven playing field; it also exposes increasing numbers of young kids under 21 to make poor, life altering choices. Indeed, steroids have many ill effects on emotional and physical health---from depression, anxiety, and violence to sexual dysfunction, heart disease, and strokes.
January 14th, 2014 at 3:30 PM ^
I do not think that any school is completely immune from the problem of PED use. However, some schools, like UM under Dave Brandon, have stepped up their drug testing,Whereas, a former FSU coach suggested that if you don't want to see drug use in your athletes, then don't test them.
Unsurprisingly, then, some of the stigmata of the most serious drugs, like steroids,appear far more common in other schools. Just ask yourself: what schools or coaches tend to be associated with unusually large numbers of arrests for violent crimes (even groups of players banding together to assault other students)? Are these the same schools where we find many athletes who suddenly gain great muscle mass, recover from injuries quickly, and perform at a much higher level in college than predicted from their recruiting rankings? Also, even in schools that get highly rated athletes, do these schools turn out a disproportionate number of college stars who vastly underperform in the NFL (where those who used PEDs in college quickly lose their advantage since most of their NFL competitors now are also on the drugs)?
January 14th, 2014 at 3:44 PM ^
January 14th, 2014 at 5:41 PM ^
when I mentiond the schools who have a lot of college stars. It's anybody's guess how many of these guys are highly rated HS recruits due to prior PED use. what I am saying though is that, even if these guys are never found out, they often fail in the NFL---not because they use steroids but because most of their competitors do also.
Clearly, there are many other, more immediate physical indicants eg for anabolic steroids
- Unusually greasy hair or oily skin (often with stretch marks on the inner joints)
- Small red or purplish acne, including breakouts on the shoulders and back
- excessive development of the breast tissue in males
- Persistent bad breath
- Thinning hair throughout the head or receding hairline (male pattern baldness)
- Jaundice or yellowing of the skin; this signals liver damage
- Skin eruptions and infections, such as abscesses and cysts
- Drastic appetite shifts (extreme hunger or lessened/loss of appetite)
- Joint pain; greater chance of injuring muscles and tendons
- Disrupted sleep patterns (not sleeping well or sleeping too much)
- Fluid level changes, bloating (face & body), and night sweating
- Dizziness, trembling, nausea or vomiting
- Rapid or progressive weight gain
- Increased muscle size (sudden or progressive)
- Hyperactivity or lethargy (too little energy)
- Trouble urinating; discoloration or blood in urine
♦ overgrowth of facial bones leading to protruding jaw and eyebrow bones.
♦ abnormal growth of the hands and feet
♦ increased body hair
♦ Joint pain
♦Swelling around joints
♦Hoarseness
♦Excessive sweating
♦Widened fingers and toes
♦Extended belly
♦Increased hunger
♦High cholesterol levels
♦Dry and itchy skin
January 14th, 2014 at 3:47 PM ^
Personally, I'd love to see a world where, after an agreement between all major sporting organizations, when a player is busted for using PEDs, the following happens:
1.) The player is never allowed to compete in any sport at any level.
2.) Any game/contest/etc the player had participated in, after the first confirmed use of PEDs, is forfeit, all records removed, and all forms of payment replayed and donated to some random charity.
This would all but stop all PED usage. Make the punishment worse than the possible benefit for both the player and the team.
January 14th, 2014 at 4:06 PM ^
I hope that the "major scandal" comes just after we win a national championship fueld by recruits who have recently gained 50+ lbs!
January 14th, 2014 at 4:16 PM ^
January 14th, 2014 at 9:37 PM ^
I'd add Spence to the list. MSU guys sure to get huge in no time over there as well...
January 14th, 2014 at 4:20 PM ^
I would be shocked if every single FBS team did not have AT LEAST a few players taking PEDs. This includes Michigan.
January 14th, 2014 at 4:27 PM ^
Your argument is that players are "clearly" using steroids, which you support by the following statements:
1) Weight Gain
2) The lack of any positive tests
You then say that it will negatively affect your fandom once more players get caught.
If it's so clear that they're using, why doesn't it affect your fandom now?
January 14th, 2014 at 4:56 PM ^
we seem to be playing on an uneven playing field given the shenanigans we've seen at OSU, Auburn, Ole Miss ad infinitum (this is compounded by our general pride in not going down those roads to compete...we'll win and we'll do it right)
That's a dangerous comment to make. Putting yourself on a pedestal in your argument is setting yourself up for failure later.
Particularly when the people actually being put on the pedestal are not in fact you or anyone you're associated with, but a very large group of people with their own histories and motivations.
January 14th, 2014 at 6:07 PM ^
January 14th, 2014 at 6:48 PM ^
be something simple like a finger-stick (i.e. blood test) where some NCAA medical rep can lineup and test the entire team in a couple of hours. Have a coaching staff member present to verify the samples are labeled accurately (etc).
The stories of how urine samples are falsified are rampant. Why not just improve the testing method (and maybe my logic is fully faulted by the fact that a blood test can't detect what a urine sample could...) and expand to all players.
I'd propose a simple formula. Fail one test and you get a battery of 3 more finger sticks on the next round (administered quickly after the first) Each of 3 is evaluated by a different lab to nullify errors. Fail 2 of those 3 and your eligibility terminated.
I recall a guy in my high school who took some form of roids. He inflated from a standard HS body to a muscular block of a person in short order. It was freaky. I would postulate that biochemistry is going to continue to develop substances which have milder but similar effects but are perfectly legal or are undetectable by current testing. Some could be for legitimate injury rehab which could affect the game in a good way. I don't think the issue is going to fade out, unfortunately. I can see the risk-reward being a lot higher in professional sports due to the 7 figure amounts of money at stake and the desire to extend a career another year. However to get blown out of college eligibility and scholarship would be quite the setback IMHO.
January 14th, 2014 at 7:40 PM ^
All of them said the same things.
Coaches push them to get better, if you only were bigger, if you were just a bit stronger if you were quicker, faster.... Always pushed them and compared to best players on the team. Natural right... the message would be clear, get better or go elsewhere... it's up to you...
They would make sure they knew well in advance of testing. Don't fail the tests, we don't want any athlete failing tests... this is when the test is... don't fail the tests.. continually repeated over and over adnauseum.
They would also say, you could tell who was and who wasn't. Abnormal weight gain is not going from hs s&c to college elite s&c. Normal weight gain is about 15lbs of muscle over 1yr period of time. 20 can happen but he had to work out a whole heck of a lot more than just the last 4 months from january through spring ball!!! Guys putting on weight is normal, 25+ lbs of ripped shredded weight and he is juiced! But there are a lot more ped's than just testosterone. Hgh, blood doping for endurance, beta blockers for focus that many qb's will use, students will use... which I have no problem with.. but they all use them.
January 15th, 2014 at 8:09 AM ^
they don't know well in advance to teh ped tests the NCAA does. The school, athletic trainers, AD, doesn't either. We get a fax the night before, the players know about 12 hours before.
They student athletes often DO know before their standard drug test which most think they are getting tested for everything...they are not...they are only getting tested for rec drugs.
January 14th, 2014 at 10:18 PM ^
Anyone who thinks steroids aren't fairly common in this sport is extraordinarily naive.
January 14th, 2014 at 10:46 PM ^
January 15th, 2014 at 7:57 AM ^
Let me start this by saying by and large people don't care when football players use steroids. They just don't. Maybe it's the nature of the sport, maybe it's becuase we feel bad they put there body through so much we feel like it's "ok" if they think steroids will help. Doesn't sound stupid saying "you can slam your body into others at high velocity, take tons of pain pills etc, oh but you can't take steroids". Sounds nuts.
Couple points....
why doesn't anyone get caught?
The ONLY time ncaa athletes get tested for PED's is when those big old NCAA trucks come rolling up. The ped tests are expensive and university do not test them. When the athletic dept/coaches have the athletes go to the health center to get tested that is ONLY for recreational drugs.
When the NCAA comes in it's all random. Meaning all athletes are randomly picked. At bowling green one time it was like 20 females and only 4 football players zero starters. 3.5 years at BG they only came in one time to do testing. So they don't sit around and think "oh let's go to the lineman at osu and test for ped's". So the odds of being caught are small especially if you blast during summer when you are least likely to be tested and take short acting stuff ie test suspension, prop, etc. You can blast anadrol and test suspension for 8 weeks and it's out of you pretty quick.
How many of these athletes take stuff?
It's the positions you'd figure. IE lineman and linebackers to an extent. The lineman are the biggest users. I'd be shocked if at least 50% of the UM lineman weren't on at some point in the year...shocked.
HGH in the NCAA?
The kids that take it are mostly taking fakes. It's all fakes out there right now. For real stuff you need to go out and buy merck saizen for $400 for 16 iu's. Keep in mind you really need 10+ iu's a day to get the affects these guys would want. Two current guys I know were taking fake hgh the whole time in college. It was all HCG (you can look up hcg on your own).
So in summary a lot of these guys are on but you don't have to be. It is not like every db, rb, etc. is on some sort of ped. The lineman have been, are, and will always be obsessed with it. It's the nature of those positions.
Also, many do get caught AFTER school. They realize there is some money in it and start dealing and get arrested. You just don't hear about it though because it is after school and you don't care anymore.
In cities like columbus where bodybuilding/powerlifting is big there are ped's everywhere. Easy to get, and the osu team has a lot of sources. I'm not bashing osu...it's the same at many places just easy access in cbus.
so anyway there is my 2 cents as a guy who works in the medical field often in the college athletics setting as well as being a bodybuilder.
January 15th, 2014 at 8:13 AM ^
As far as my personal view I am against use if it is against the sport. They should just allow use or launch a full on assault on the problem. So although I do think they should be legal in "real life" if it is against the rules of the sport it should be shut down or just fully allowed. There are too many reasons why you couldn't allow it though so I am actually against making it legal in sports.
ie it's not really fair if some suburban spoiled dipshit can take 3 grams of test a week while some poor kid can't afford anything. Plus we don't want to start jamming drugs down our kids throat.
That is why I like my sport...there is natural shows and non natural shows...makes life easier.
how about natural NCAA football and non natural? lol
January 16th, 2014 at 8:05 AM ^
bumping due to this being the most interesting thread in the last 2 years
vernon gholston at osu...
[img]http://intheblackhole.files.wordpress.com/2008/02/gholston-50.jpg[/img]
cock diesel at osu...goes to the jets, and gets weaker, slower, and suddenly has some muscle dissapear...I'm not passing judgment but...uh....yeah...
vernon gholston with jets...
[img]http://assets.nydailynews.com/img/2010/05/20/alg_gholston.jpg[/img]
damnit i can't get any pictures to show up
January 17th, 2014 at 4:44 PM ^
Nice insight Flex.
I think every day mgobloggers would be surprised that there are probably quite a few UM football players running some type of gear thoughout the year. Regardless of what they think of Hoke or the S+C staff, there are always going to be guys wanting to get bigger quicker.
Truth is, gear works to do that. Anyone trying to get bigger is spending countless hours in the gym, eating spot on and may not be too happy with the results. They know a buddy or team mate who may have sampled the stuff and saw their gains. It's easy to see that it might be an option for them to try.
I would be more surprised/shocked to know that there is absolutely noone running something during the year (even at UM).
If it's true that Brandon implemented a strict testing policy then UM might be putting themselves at a disadvantage.
It's interesting hearing what you have to say about testing. I am always shocked that we're not hearing more about guys popping positive (thoughout college football in general). I wouldn't be surprised if at least 15-20% of the football team hasn't run at least a cycle or three here or there. Your explanation of testing at BG explains alot.
I'm kinda with you. If they want to stop AAS use, testing needs to be more rampent across the board. For whatever reason it's not.