For those of us out of the TV viewing area, what the hell happened?
OT: Zumaya Injured
He just thew a pitch and then went down to his knees holding his elbow...his hand was shacking badly and he didnt even have the power to stand let alone walk...he finally got up tho...it was a bad site to see.
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Threw a pitch, took two steps, and went to the ground writhing in pain, clutching his elbow. Gotta imagine we've seen his last pitch if the injury is even close to his reaction to it...
Sonofabitch. Talk about a man prone to freak injuries.
Shit. Just... shit.
He hurt his pitching elbow on a follow through. As soon as his motion was done, he hit the ground in pain. His right arm was shaking as they were looking at it. It almost looked as if his arm was moving funky as his follow through came across his body. He couldn't stand and had to be helped off the field. Not good.
He was throwing rather wild that inning.
the crying indian.....love it!
Wow. His arm exploded. I hope it's not as bad as it looked. He walked off holding his elbow and saying "It's Broke". I sure hope he's wrong.
I read that off his lips too. I wish nothing but the best for him and to have a speed recovery.
I'm pretty sure he was saying "It popped." I actually looked in the mirror to see if that made sense. Think it's elbow related, could be TJ surgery :(
Let's wait and see how bad the injury actually is. He threw a pitch in the 8th inning to Young and then collapsed clutching his arm. His arm was shaking and he was walked off the field. It looked really bad though.
Change the thread title. You don't know shit yet.
I would not bet on him pitching tomorrow...
That looked terrible. He's had such bad luck. You have to feel for the guy.
I'm no swdude apologist, but I think he's right on this one. It certainly looked like a horrific injury...I can't say I've ever seen anyone go down like that in baseball.
If i recall there have been a few pitchers who broke their humerus bone while pitching. That was nasty. I havent seen this though, and i dont think i want to.
Na i think it fits fine... im hopeing for A)...but the looks of it i will go with B)
A) hes done for the game...15 Day DL
B) could be done for the year
C) could be done as a tiger
D) could be done for his career
Was it like Dave Dravecky in the late 80's? The Giants pitcher who actually, i believe, broke his arm pitching? I recall it "snapped" or "popped" loudly when he got injured the first time (and then a series of unfortunate and improbable events led to things taking a ridiculous turn for the worse- the chances of that happening to Zumaya or anyone again are very slim), but, if there's anyone who saw the Dravecky injury and the Zumaya injury, did they appear to be at all similar? Sorry if this is kind of an obscure reference; it was just the first thing that I thought of after reading these descriptions of the injury to Zumaya.
EDIT- I am a moron; should've read all of the responses first. My bad. Man, that is tough for Zumaya.
I'm not sure why you're getting negged so badly for this. Not only is the title vague (done for his career? done for the season?), but misleading. When I clicked on it I was expecting to get some verification on how serious his injury was but all I got was more speculation.
I mean, I was watching the game when it happened and yeah, obviously his injury looked awful and it's tough to imagine him not requiring surgery that will at least end his season (God, hopefully not his career), but to say that he's "done" without having any additional information other than what we saw last night is jumping the gun a bit.
Like everyone else I'm hoping for the best but fearing the worst. We all love Zumaya and it'd be a damn tragedy if we never got to see him dial up the heat again...
He's done - you saw it as clearly as I did. That was awful.
How can any of you that saw that not believe he is done for the year?
Absolutely terrible feelings for the guy.
It's not that we don't believe he's done. It's just that we don't know for sure yet. Do I seriously have to explain this concept to you?
I understand what you're saying, what I don't understand is how the MUCH more likely situation shouldn't be the one up.
Carry on, however.
that was the last pitch of his career...I really hope not because he has so much potential. It looked so bad though. Lets just hope the Tigers can rebound and continue the strong bullpen they have had all year, and that Joel Zumaya can make another comeback.
So what, it was a reaction to something that looked really, really bad - and with that kid's injury history, I don't think that thread title is out of bounds. I didn't know you were the thread police around here.
I have only seen that kind of reaction to throwing a pitch one other time in my life and that was Dave Dravecky (which was a truly awful moment).
im hoping for a pinched nerve...
I did sleep in a Holliday Inn Express last nite.
I havent seen a pitcher drop like that since Dave Dravecky's return after battling cancer. You don't have to be Dr James Andrews to see that this is pretty bad. I hope he is out of pain soon before we debate whether he is on any comeback timetable.
How about Erin Andrews?
Not sure she could help with the diagnosis, but she could sure help with the THERAPY HEYYYOOOOHHHHHHH
Absolutely horrific injury that Dravecky experienced and yeah I havent seen too many pitchers collapse like Zumaya did yesterday. Still I don't think Zoom's injury will surpass Dravecky.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=21UxZTGTbtA Start watching from around the 2:55 mark. Weak stomachs should not watch....
I'm certainly not a doctor, but given his injury history, and what most of us saw tonight, that looks like big, big trouble.
I honestly feel like its going to be a Tommy John sort of thing. 18 months to recover, 2-3 years to be back to respectable high 90s velocity.
I also remember something like this happening to Tom Browning of the Reds back in the early '90s, I think. He just collapsed on the follow-thru. Scary moment.
And IIRC, it happened to him twice.
I want to say his was a spiral fracture. Middle of a throw, before the release, his arm just cracked in 2 places diagonally. His forearm just fell down while his shoulder completed the throwing motion. One of the sickest things I've ever seen.
Oddly, I can't find a single video that shows it happening to anyone. Seems odd.
They probably took all of them off the internet for our own good. If you posted a link, I'd be obligated to watch it, and I don't think I can handle that.
Maybe you put a question mark at the end of the thread title. Other than that, I don't have a big problem with it.
Hey, on a positive note: first place alone, baby! How about them apples?!
First place is win, don't get me wrong. But it's still....
There was an article I read a year or two ago that basically said that MLB pitchers are nearing/at the threshold for the human body to withstand. Our entire arm apparatus - shoulder, elbow, etc. - probably peaks at throwing a ball around 107 or 108 mph. Zumaya is (was?) obviously closer to that threshold than most. It doesn't seem that humans were really meant to throw a ball that fast.
they also said it was physically impossible to break the 4 minute mile, and the body would explode if it jumped as far as bob beamon.
You're right. In another hundred million years or so, we'll be throwing at least 110.
Humans have stopped evolving. Evolution takes place as a result of the survival of the fittest. Those with better genes and helpful mutations pass them on.
Humans have reached the point where anyone, even those with obviously bad genes, can and do pass them on. We no longer play the survival of the fittest game. 104 is about the max.
That's only true until overpopulation takes over and we have to throw large rocks at other human beings to kill them so they don't eat our food. Once that happens, it's only a matter of time before evolution kicks back in.
Humans are still evolving, just in a different way.
But to add some value to my double post, I also read an article describing how the human digestive system is also still evolving. A homo sapien from a few hundred thousand years ago wouldn't be able to digest all of the wheat products humans have become reliant on in our modern diets. Can't find the link, but I think it was a National Geographic article...
KRAMER: Jerry, do you think people will be able to breathe underwater in the year 2000?
JERRY: (Pauses) Some of us....
Tim Lincecum is my favorite non-tiger MLB player because of his ability to generate velocity at a diminutive size. His mechanics, IMO, is close to being perfect which is why he consistently throws 95 plus MPH fastball.
Zumaya, on the other hand, throws with terrible mechanics and really needs to work on defining his mechanics, otherwise, you are going to develop arm problems down the road which is part of the reason why his arm exploded on him. The biggest problem that I've seen from Zumaya is he open up his upper body too soon which cause him to throw all arm instead of using his whole body. It's amazing on how much velocity he can generate by only using his arm.
If Zumaya needs Tommy John surgery, does that mean he potentially could come back throwing 105 mph instead of just 103 mph?
Seriously though, hope he's okay.
Maybe it'll be like in Rookie of the Year. That'd be cool. But I'm not holding my breath. I've long had this awful feeling that Zumaya will be like the Bird - the kind of guy we'll be telling our grandkids about in these "no really, he was awesome" tones as they figure either we're full of it or it hardly matters cause nothing ever came of it.
talking tommy john already on the postgame
speculation, of course, so as to not offend those who think titles on this board are gospel
With that kind of pain, the kind of pain that knocks a big man off his feet, you have to think either a bone broke catastrophically and suddenly, or some ligament or tendon went SPROING and thwacked his ulnar nerve or something along those lines (I believe ulnar nerve would likely explain both the severe pain and the shaking/twitching hand). Or, god forbid, both. Brutal, hope it's not as serious as the reaction made it look, you hate to see this happen to anyone. And definitely hoping that there's no nerve damage -- that can mess with the guy's life after baseball.
(Yes, "sproing" and "thwacked" are the technical medical terms. I learned them at the ACME School of Medicine from Professor Friz Freleng.)
when i saw him go down i felt like i was gonna collapse, i hope it is better than it looks because it looked BAD!
I haven't seen the game and I want to see how it happened.
...where Zumaya had 62 appearances in his rookie year. That's a little on the high side for a young pitcher. Lots of use early in a pitcher's career can ruin his arm for the majority of it.
I love you Zumaya! I don't care if you never make it back, I will never forget what you brought to our team. And if you do make it back again, I can't wait to watch you waste ppl with a 102 mph fastball.
Kind of strange that the posters who are taking a wait-and-see approach are getting negbanged and the Chicken Littles are getting upvoted. It certainly looked bad, but we haven't gotten any medical update yet.
Anyone have a link to a clip? Maybe the doctors in the audience could take a look.
There's a clip. It's small, so it doesn't look like an unusual throw to me at all. But, uh, it's ESPN, so it won't get taken down by MLB.
tear a tendon clear in two or something, he could easily make it back in a year +. He's definitely done for this year, UNLESS that was just like the worst nerve stinger of all time, but Zoom hasn't had much in the way of elbow injuries (it's been shoulder and finger/hand a lot) one elbow injury isn't going to finish his career.
Personally, I'm hoping for a broken bone. 6/8 weeks to heal up and a winter of solid rehab and he should be fine.
Amazing that this guy seems to have one major injury after another. Yet they are all unique and different everytime. I think when he comes back he is going to have to "reign it in" possibly and become more of a mid 90's pitcher and work on his off speed stuff. I really think his motion and torque he puts his arm through are just too violent to sustain a long healthy career. Just my opinion. This really made me sad watching this b/c of what he's gone through already.
I bet he's done for the year and into next year.
The catcher said he could hear the arm "pop." Jeez.
Of course, as others have noted, that's better than the resounding *CRACK!* that accompanied Tom Browning's and Dave Dravecky's final pitches. Remember the scene in Terminator II where the new Terminator gets frozen by the liquid nitrogen and Schwarzenegger shoots him and he explodes into a million pieces?
Browning and Dravecky looked EXACTLY like that when their arms broke.
The only thing worse was Napolean McCallum's knee injury.
I had heard of that, but never watched it. Now I looked it up. Thank you for making me watch a man's leg all but get torn off his body. And here I thought Tyrone Protho's ankle was bad (and it was). I was glad to read that he was mostly able to fully recover from that and is actually a pretty good golfer these days.
Not arguing, but simply adding to the story...
Browning had a bit of a comeback with the Kansas City Royals a year or two later. I think he pitched a couple games and then called it quits. So that didn't exactly end his career, although it would be terrifying to think that, "Hey, on this pitch, my arm might break again." That would be a very difficult issue to overcome.
"Zumaya done?" would be a much better thread title, FYI.
We don't know what's wrong with Zoom yet, but he's currently been put on the 15-Day DL, and Fien is called up.
I would think if it were definitely a season/career ender, it'd be obvious pretty quickly. The move to 15 Day DL is... somewhat promising. Back by the ALCS?
...all started with overplaying a stupid video game.
Thank you for making me watch a man's leg all but get torn off his body.
Tim Krumrie's is pretty bad. Theisman, of course, is pretty bad.
I saw a running back get tackled along the sideline once and nearly lose his leg. Four Clemson defenders fell on him. It didn't look gruesome at all. When he stayed down, I thought maybe he'd been knocked out.
It turned out that not only did the hit tear all of the ligaments and tendons, it also damaged the blood vessels and the leg nearly turned necrotic. When they got him to the hospital, they were talking about whether or not they'd have to amputate.
Needless to say, the guy's football career was over....but he managed to keep the leg and can walk without a limp.
I shudder even thinking about it again.