wlubd

August 18th, 2011 at 9:09 PM ^

A) Have you seen the amount and detail of the corroborating evidence? By itself, it's enough to hammer Miami in to the ground. B) Robinson/Wetzel/Yahoo =/= Rosenberg/Snyder/Freep. It's not as if they caught a whiff of something and made up a story. It's nearly a year's worth of meticulous investigation and detail that one Miami blogger is in denial about it.

Callahan

August 18th, 2011 at 9:07 PM ^

I think the author of that blog needs to look up what the word "unsubstantiated" means. These aren't rumors or speculation. They are allegations with a pretty strong paper trail that Yahoo put online. And if Little Luke is lying, he's made up an awfully detailed lie and fudged his credit card and bank accounts to back up his lies. He's also quite the wizard at Photoshop.

Talcelm

August 18th, 2011 at 9:26 PM ^

I'm not trying to disagree with you but i will on a few points... 1) Anyone can run up a bill at a bar/club or resturant print it out and say " I was with the entire offensive line" does that mean it happened? 2) Photos of players with boosters or fans are common place throughout college sports. If you have never been to booster function then you would not know this. Soooo if I am a jilted booster who felt the need to get back at the players and program I can say "look at me I'm buying them drinks" and with those credit card receipts it looks even worse. Many players are often at those booster events, or banquets. Hell I have many a photo of myself with current and past Michigan players and granted I'm not a massive booster but it could be made out too look shady. 3) Many of the photos are captioned completly incorrect as well...saying its the Fiesta Bowl where its clearly the Orange Bowl and numerous photos of players when they are already in the NFL.

I'm not trying to say that many of the players aren't guilty of something but there needs to be better proofing of evidence before a story like this is leaked....and a few sports writers are starting to pick up on this. Stop the sensationalizing and write the damn truth!!

Callahan

August 18th, 2011 at 9:44 PM ^

Feel free to disagree with me. My wife does it quite often. To me, the defense by this blogger is like when Kwame Kilpatrick tried to say that he didn't send all those text messages to Christine Beatty (among others) trying to get laid. Sure, we can't prove Kwame had the phone when those texts were sent, it was infinitely more likely that he in fact sent those messages than it was that someone else sent them. The defenses in this post are mitigating at best. It's like charging a guy with 50 counts of, say, fraud, and you only have complete irrefutable proof of 30 of them. Even if you're right about the 20 cases in which the direct evidence is lacking, the 30 other cases make the 20 questionable cases look that much better.

Callahan

August 18th, 2011 at 9:44 PM ^

Feel free to disagree with me. My wife does it quite often. To me, the defense by this blogger is like when Kwame Kilpatrick tried to say that he didn't send all those text messages to Christine Beatty (among others) trying to get laid. Sure, we can't prove Kwame had the phone when those texts were sent, it was infinitely more likely that he in fact sent those messages than it was that someone else sent them. The defenses in this post are mitigating at best. It's like charging a guy with 50 counts of, say, fraud, and you only have complete irrefutable proof of 30 of them. Even if you're right about the 20 cases in which the direct evidence is lacking, the 30 other cases make the 20 questionable cases look that much better.

Callahan

August 18th, 2011 at 9:44 PM ^

Feel free to disagree with me. My wife does it quite often. To me, the defense by this blogger is like when Kwame Kilpatrick tried to say that he didn't send all those text messages to Christine Beatty (among others) trying to get laid. Sure, we can't prove Kwame had the phone when those texts were sent, it was infinitely more likely that he in fact sent those messages than it was that someone else sent them. The defenses in this post are mitigating at best. It's like charging a guy with 50 counts of, say, fraud, and you only have complete irrefutable proof of 30 of them. Even if you're right about the 20 cases in which the direct evidence is lacking, the 30 other cases make the 20 questionable cases look that much better.

Fresh Meat

August 18th, 2011 at 10:10 PM ^

Let's not ignore the fact that the stories were corraborated by 8 former players and even a few former coaches.  That's not random receipts and pictures.

Also, the guy further proves he doesn't know what he is talking about by saying Miami isn't a repeat violator.  He says that the last football violations are too far away, which is true (I think).  However, the rule does not require the repeat violation to be in the same sport.  Miama was recently sanctioned in baseball.  We all remember that danger of repeat violation status for stretch gate over the Ed Martin stuff, obviously different sports.

wlubd

August 18th, 2011 at 10:20 PM ^

http://sports.yahoo.com/investigations/news?slug=ys-miami_violations_st… That article came out today. Gist of it is, the NCAA may waive the statute of limitations in this case because of how long this pattern of violations has gone on for. It would date all the way back to 2002, when Miami was on a probationary period in baseball. Everything back to then would be in play and Miami would likely be classed as a repeat offender. Needless to say, that's really bad news for Miami...

Michael Scarn

August 19th, 2011 at 1:35 AM ^

But, he could want to promote and sell the book he wrote, he could be pissed they pulled his name off the players' lounge, he could be angry that the access he used to have to players was (allegedly) yanked out from under him by Shannon.
<br>
<br>But yea, where's there's this much smoke there's probably at least some fire.

expatriate

August 18th, 2011 at 9:16 PM ^

The guy is grasping at straws- does he expect Yahoo! to come out with a 500 page report detailing every tiny scrap of corroborating evidence?  I heard Wetzel in an interview hte other day say there were tons of other allegations they didn't print because they couldn't independently verify them.

 

He is clearly very smart and would make a hell of a defense attorney, but at the end of the day he is a homer desperate to save his program that has just been nailed by some great journalism.  Let's not forget, Yahoo! Sports has a pretty solid track record with these things.

Tacopants

August 18th, 2011 at 9:21 PM ^

There are lots of details that can probably be verified that nobody's checking as of yet.  Kellen Winslow crashing a jetski into a boat comes to mind, there's probably plenty of paperwork around that whole incident (jetski/boat repair, witnesses etc.).  Also if they ever find the captain of that yacht Shapiro had, he'd probably be able to confirm the hookers (who I heard all mysteriously disappeared after meeting Craig James) on the boat.  I mean, that has to be the easiest lead in the world to run down, and that guy has no motive to lie.

teldar

August 18th, 2011 at 9:26 PM ^

I couldn't read it. It was angst written by a buffoon.

This guy doesn't try to deny the allegations. He just says he hates Yahoo, says they have no integrity, and argues against the death sentence (as far as I could tell, as i didn't read everything the asshat had to say). I will add that he says there was no supporting evidence for some of the accusations. As a health care provider, there is something called HIPPA. Of course there are no files available proving an abortion.

This dude's blog post and your comparison of Michigan's to Miami's situations are both pathetic and both should be stricken from the history of the human race. 

In short, I wish the negbang were back in full force. Fortunately you will be negbanged due to the fact that yours was a post rather than just a comment, but I feel it unfortunate that this maroon (moran if you prefer) is allowed to go on posting on the internet, and possibly even procreating.

 

Waters Demos

August 18th, 2011 at 11:24 PM ^

This dude's blog post and your comparison of Michigan's to Miami's situations are both pathetic and both should be stricken from the history of the human race. 

. . . I feel it unfortunate that this maroon (moran if you prefer) is allowed to go on posting on the internet, and possibly even procreating.

Tremendous.  Certainly worthy of more than a "normal" tag.  And these are only the best parts IMHE - the entire post is genius.

I'm kind of pissed off at you for having thought of this first.  Fuck you - you're brilliant for this.  Goddammit.

IncrediblySTIFF

August 18th, 2011 at 9:32 PM ^

article.  Also, it is clearly biased.  Lastly, I don't think that you can 100% discount somebodies allegations just because they are a criminal.  If you could, then why/how do courts use informants.  I could lay in to this writers article, but I think it's pretty easy to tell where he stands from this line.

 

 Aubrey Hill: This is simply a case of he said, convicted felon said. Yahoo! claims to have one source that corroborates an illegal recruiting visit. Hill denies the accusation and one of the players involved, Andre Debose, has already been cleared by the NCAA. This looks flimsy looking at the overall evidence.

 

"he said, convicted felon said."  Way to approach the article with a little bit of integrity and no bias, guy.

ish

August 18th, 2011 at 9:47 PM ^

That article is nonsense. It boils down to this: Shapiro once lied, so therefore everything else he said must be a lie. Total garbage. One could just as easily say that since the author acknowledges that there is sufficient proof to believe some allegations, there must be sufficient proof to believe all allegations, which is precisely the opposite of what the author sets out to prove.

profitgoblue

August 18th, 2011 at 10:12 PM ^

I think its clear that a liar can sometimes tell the truth and the data on this case is overwhelming, so much so that even if a portion is true it spells D-O-O-M for Miami.

That said, I think its also clear that Shapiro would get absolutely hammered by a defense lawyer in front of a jury for his record of being untruthful, deceitful, and felony conviction.  The prosecutor would have to work extremely hard to establish credibility if they put this guy on the stand in a trial.  Not that it couldn't be done just on the weight of the evidence, but Shapiro definitely does not make a good witness!

 

CWoodson

August 18th, 2011 at 9:55 PM ^

The biggest issue here is that the author doesn't understand how circumstantial evidence works. It'd be great to have pictures of the guy handing $5k in cash to Kenny Phillips. That's perfect corroboration. But the 33 calls Shapiro made to him is strong circumstantial evidence Shapiro is telling the truth - and is also corroboration. Of course, maybe they were talking about tiddlywinks, and if you want to believe that, great. This outrageously biased attempted fisking is nonsense. A felon is making claims, there are varying levels of corroboration for different claims, and you are free to believe those that you would like to believe. Attacking the article claim by claim, without seeing the evidence Yahoo has seen, is a truly inane exercise. It certainly doesn't justify burying our heads in the sand.

BiSB

August 18th, 2011 at 9:58 PM ^

I was almost swayed by the 11 month investigation and the hundreds of pages of corroborating documents. Thanks for setting me straight, 2003alumgocanes...

Talcelm

August 18th, 2011 at 11:12 PM ^

Well I figured I would but when a number of sports writers including Stewart Mandel say good points are made and NCAA gotta prove it that people would have an open mind...guess not. Oh well negbomb away closed minded football fans...I'll still be a die hard Michigan fan and a semi closet Miami fan.

Yostbound and Down

August 18th, 2011 at 11:26 PM ^

I think it's fair to say Callahan's quadruple post summed up what I think about it quite nicely. Agreed they still do have to prove it, but with all the evidence Yahoo uncovered, it seems to me the scales are pretty overwhelmingly tipped one way. I don't think that's necessarily close minded of someone to make that call, because hey this isn't a court of law, it's the NCAA. I'm free to judge the Canes as having made a mockery of the program, whereas I am technically not allowed to judge Casey Anthony or OJ or whoever (notice I did say technically, because as long as you're not a juror, whatever)

kurpit

August 18th, 2011 at 10:14 PM ^

this reminds me of when clarett accused ohio state of improprieties and all the osu fans just discredited it because clarett is a clown. clarett has definitely proven that he's an idiot but now it seems like what he was saying is most likely true.

mackbru

August 18th, 2011 at 10:32 PM ^

Of the 8 or 9 former Canes who offered corroboration, how many of them are identified and quoted on the record? So far, I've only seen 1 or 2 who've actually been named. I say this because everybody went nuts when the Freep cited unnamed Michigan players when reporting the RR story.

Seth9

August 19th, 2011 at 1:47 AM ^

The Freep granted anonymity to guys like Toney Clemons. They did this so that they could talk to players who clearly had an axe to grind without revealing that they were talking to a bunch of people with an axe to grind. That is blatently unethical. However, allowing guys who are admitting that they personally broke rules to remain anonymous is justifiable, particularly when there's corroborating evidence.

At any rate, the real problem with the Freep investigation is that they never bothered to make any sort of distinction between what the NCAA considers manditory and voluntary. As such, many of the things they claimed Michigan was doing were things that were legal. As it took Michigan fans all of a couple hours to realize that most of the extra hours were considered voluntary activities, a conclusion subsequently backed up by the NCAA and statements from other coaches and players, it is completely unacceptable for a legitimate journalistic entity to have missed that.

The Freep is a failing newspaper that decided to run an investigation on Michigan football to see if they could turn up any violations so that they could get more attention (and thus revenue). Their investigation turned up very little, but they decided to run with it anyway and try to make it seem large enough that the time investment wouldn't be a waste. It seems to have worked from a business perspective, but it was incredibly unethical.

Tater

August 18th, 2011 at 10:38 PM ^

He should have put adsense in.  He is going to waste the one time he gets a bunch of hits to his fan blog that is pretty much like any of many done by individual posters here.  

BiSB

August 18th, 2011 at 11:20 PM ^

So if someone could post the Chappelle Show with the R Kelly voir dire scene, that would be great. What kind of proof WOULD you need to believe the Miami was guilty?

Seth

August 18th, 2011 at 11:54 PM ^

There's a lot wrong with that article, but A for effort, and worth viewing if just for his chart:

 


http://oi56.tinypic.com/xpqw6g.jpg

Woo chart!

He's much too quick to dismiss anything by Shapiro, and he is just plain mistaken about the basketball program's stuff in the '90s being totally irrelevant, because major charges are against an athletic department/institution, not a program. Failure to keep multiple boosters away from your athletes over a decade is repeat offender LOIC territory.

BiSB

August 19th, 2011 at 8:07 AM ^

His argument seems to be, "we can't believe this guy because only SOME of his claims can be proved with iron-clad certainty, and only MOST have some corroborating evidence." And if this was a case where needing to prove ALL 72 charges was important, that might make a difference. This is more like a prosecution of a serial flasher charged with 72 counts of indecent exposure. The defense that "only a few of the victims actually have photographic evidence of my penis, and you only have proof that I was present at like 80% of the crime scenes" isn't gonna help much.