OT - Worst-Made Cars on the Road
Forbes came out with their annual "worst-made cars on the road" list. Unfortunately the top 7 spots all go to "Big 3" products.
1. Cadillac Escalade
2. Chevrolet Aveo
3. Chevrolet Colorado
4. Dodge Nitro
5. Ford F-250
6. GMC Canyon
7. Jeep Wrangler
Considering the gains that GM is making of late, this is a bit of a bad break. Thoughts?
http://www.forbes.com/2010/04/07/worst-made-cars-lifestyle-vehicles-gm-…
My parents bought a Prius 5 months ago and they just recently had to take it in for a recall to update the braking and acceleration systems. I don't know much about what the issue was, but my dad swears that at least twice, while driving on bumpy roads, he experienced a significant delay while trying to brake. Leads me to believe their is some merit to some of the claims.
April 12th, 2010 at 10:00 PM ^
My parents-in-law own a Prius and they reported the same accelerator issue on bumpy roads. It isn't as dramatic as the media reports made it sound, but they reported times when the car would fail to break and/or jolt forward unexpectedly on certain surfaces. I know they took it in for a software update, though, so perhaps the problem was remedied. But no, it was not an isolated incident as far as I know.
April 12th, 2010 at 10:32 PM ^
The prius had its own problems different from the acceleration problem found on the 10 recalled toyotas.
The Priuses (and all hybrids, but most to a lesser extent) have very complicated braking systems. Pretty much as soon as you let off the gas, the computer gathers the energy of the spinning wheels to help recharge the battery. This happens during braking and not. The system gathers data very quickly, probably a thousand times a second (1KHz) and quick changes can affect it. The prius had a problem where (if i remember all the issues) on bumpy roads while turning and braking the brakes would take about 1 second to respond (as opposed to instantaneous braking). That 1 second could turn into about 60 feet on the highway, which is a BFD. This is an issue with the electronics of the complex braking system, not the accelerator.
On the other hand, that guy who went 90+mph was just trying to get his 15 min of fame. He faked an accel problem, while priuses havent had them
How is the F-250 on there? That's part of a line, so how does the 150 and 350 not get included? Do the models really differ that much (Minus, of course, when you get into a dual axle 350)?
F-150 and F-250 are completely different platforms.
April 12th, 2010 at 10:45 PM ^
The 250 and 350 share a lot of components, but my guess is they didnt test the 350. Major differences are in engines, suspension, and typical configurations (cab/doors, bed length, etc.)
I doubt CR tested the 350.
By the number of responses I've had can you tell I'm a mechanical engineer and a car dork yet?
I drive an '09 Acura TSX and I'm fairly disappointed with it. The hinges attaching the hood to the frame feel like they're made out of paperclips; I feel like I need hood pins going 80 on the highway. Although, I will admit I plan on buying it and selling it as soon as the lease is up because I'll actually be able to turn a decent profit, due to Acura's high resale values. Then I can buy my shitty Wrangler...
How is a Chevy Colorado ranked #3 and a GMC Canyon #6...when they are the same freakin truck?
the first... it was not part of the accelerator issue, and I'd have to say the premium I've had to pay for it was well worth it. Having said that I owned 3 Ford Taurus's before that and they were all excellent vehicles. My last one I drove nearly 200k miles and now my sister in-law still drives it. Every Taurus I owned needed a transmission rebuild at some point, but even $1300 later, the cost to drive them was well below the premium I'd have had to pay for a Camry or Accord.
My other belief... true or not.. is that a lot of the perception people have of american cars is due to the people driving them and their care or lack thereof for them. It seemed when I was in HS, that 5/10 kids drove a neon, grand am, cavalier, sunfire. If any of those kids might have say, gotten an oil change more than once a year, and put a coat of wax on it at some in time owning the car, they might not all be the POS they were. I took care of my Taurus' and they lasted a long time. Most american cars are cheaper, and maybe not anymore, but for a long time that's what most young people drove... most of whom did not take good care of their cars. Many cars will not last long without the proper maintenance.
I don't buy that the perception is due to poor owner care. Coming from a guy with family working at Ford, American manufacturers put out really crappy cars for a long time--particularly the entry level sedans. The costs associated with building those cars, like the Focus, were such that Ford took a loss on each sale, with the goal of building brand loyalty. As such, they were unwilling to make better cars and take an even larger loss. Toyota had lower costs, and was able to produce a proportionately better car and sell it for the same price--which is why there reputation is (was?) better.
That's from the boardroom, not me.
It's not as simple as that. There was (and maybe still is) a fundamentally different business model between the Japanese makers and the big three that no one seems to want to talk much about: planned obsolescence. A lot of the vehicles that the big three put out just weren't designed and built to last all that long, whereas the Japanese makers didn't take that approach. In the long run it appears that the big three benefited in the short term by selling more (cheaper) cars when they needed to be replaced, but the Japanese makers benefited in the long term by seller less (more expensive) cars that were designed to last. Obviously this is a gross over-simplification, but to deny that this didn't happen is just putting your head in the sand.
What would Jack Burton say in a time like this?
I leased a Honda Accord for three years, after more than a decade owning Fords. After the Accord, I went back to Ford, but only because my wife was embarrassed to be seen in her father's driveway with the Honda, (he is a Ford retiree).
I loved my Accord. Loved. It.
However, one of the fundamental differences in ownership experience between the Fords I've owned and the Honda was the manufacturer's expectation to follow the "recommended" service plan. Honda made it clear that if I wanted to keep my warranty, I'd bring in my car every 5,000 miles for the scheduled, preventive maintenance activity. And those visits added up: between $150 - $350 every time I set foot in the service center. Ford has no such requirement.
One has to assume that level of care on a regular basis adds up to some pretty impressive long-term quality scores for Honda. And their customer is willingly paying the bill, (well, maybe begrudgingly). Still, there's a lesson here to be learned by the domestics.
April 13th, 2010 at 10:38 AM ^
"Honda made it clear that if I wanted to keep my warranty, I'd bring in my car every 5,000 miles for the scheduled, preventive maintenance activity."
I'm going to suggest that's because it was leased, not because of the warranty. There is no such requirement in the warranty contract for cars that are owned. At least not in ours there isn't.
The methodology seemed pretty lazy to me. It never ceases to amaze me how crappy journalists can be--although it probably shouldn't by now.
That column was pure filler.
CR always seems to be down on VW as well. Every single VW model I've owned has had, according to CR, 'electrical problems'. I've never had any trouble with any of my VWs. I'm surprised a VW didn't make the Top 7.
I had a psycho ex-girlfriend who owned a 2006 Beetle. The thing caught fire from electrical problems. I hated everything about our relationship but watching that demon car burn to the ground was honestly the coolest thing I have ever witnessed.
My '99 Jetta had electrical problems. You really don't want your car to have electrical problems...it sucks.
April 12th, 2010 at 10:37 PM ^
Yep, same with my 2000 Jetta. The on-board computer was completely messed up, in addition to a variety of electrical problems.
Aside from safety reviews, I rarely give much thought from these types of reports. If I'm happy with it, then I'm happy with it. I read negative review after negative reviews from "experts" about the Jeep Commander. I went out and bought one and I absolutely love the thing.
Lexus consistently draws praise for their mid-size SUV's and I can honestly say that I would NEVER drive one. They just simply aren't made for 6'4'' bodies.
There is a vehicle for everybody.
Do the brakes work?
60% of the time they work, every time.
Ford Focus is the best car ever made, no question.
Consumer Reports is never consistent.
2 vehicles, same platform, engine 1 jap 1 american the jap plate always was rated higher every single time. ford/mazda or nissan built vehicles, gm/toyota, chrysler/mitsubi..., all had shared platform vehicles and every time the foreign plate was rated better.
How can the same engine, transmission be different from 1 to the next? Ie they all are better in the jap then the american?
Next, I am a uaw/ford kid growing up. Buy fords, always will. My Fusion and Escape are excellent cars, not a problem at all. Had a contour and f150 previously and not a single problem there either. Actaully I want another f150 now though...,
One thing on my fusion vs camry as good even better, vs accord like my fusion better interior on accord is a bit better but at a hefty expense difference, and same thing with the malibu though I prefer my fusion to both on drive.... On the interior though, if I were to pay more on interior for malibu/accord may as well get the ford taurus and blow both of the accord/malibu out of the water quality wise at pretty much the same price.....
What platform and engine have GM and Toyota shared?
Anything from the NUMMI plant in California.
The Geo Prism and Toyota Corolla were the same.
A more commonly known share is the Toyota Matrix and the Pontiac Vibe. It's the same everything except some sheet metal and interior fittings. I think [maybe] the Matrix had a version with a higher performance I4 that wasn't available in the Vibe.
I had no idea. The more you know...
The Pontiac Vibe and Toyota Matrix are/were the same car. They're not making either anymore, but both were under the toyota recall
The correct answer: mine.
95 Mercury Mystique, aka Ford Contour, aka the worst Ford my Ford-only family has owned in the past 20 years.
The transmission line rusted through this winter, I closed the door too hard and my interior rearview mirror fell off, it gets god-awful gas mileage, makes noises I can't even begin to comprehend, and has irreparable issues with the rear suspension... I'm basically trying to keep it alive as cheaply as possible until graduation.
sounds like a beater car to me...., and one that new bandaides and duct tape keep rolling.....those are the perfect beaters they last just as long as they possibly can and then die out pulling into the dealership for wich they offer the 2grand push/pull for your trade deal and you smile all the way into the dealership cause your beater now is your downpayment...ahhh the days right out of school.
"We need to come clean"
http://www.wcpo.com/news/local/story/Toyota-Official-We-Need-To-Come-Cl…
Honda in the mid 90's had a electronic module in civics that was failing, charging 480bucks per unit not including labor...well after a recall the cost to honda for the part was revealed to be less then 80dollars per emc.
I was brought in as a contractor to the toyota warranty center, Reed Hartman hwy, cincinnati oh....bout 97, I cannot tell you how rude they were over the phone to their customers complaints. Often I was hearing the same things on engine problems..response Our engines do not fail you did something to the car....turns out it was all part of the engine sludge problem. They were flat mean and unresponsive to their customers, I was shocked at the time based upon toyota's reputation.
My dad has an Eclipse and I have a Montero Sport. Both are awful.
April 12th, 2010 at 10:03 PM ^
Chevy Aztek was the uggliest thing to ever been spawned from a mid-sized SUV roofying a minivan and having its way with it. A great concept, but just horrible exection.
April 12th, 2010 at 10:28 PM ^
pontiac aztek
buick rendezvous
same car, but it wasnt (at least in America) a chevy
April 12th, 2010 at 10:33 PM ^
I'm surprised. A mechanic once told me a number of years ago that GM made the best cars on the road, along with Toyota and Honda, and that Ford was shit. And then GM began to get higher ratings for something like customer satisfaction / product reliability (could be 2 completely different things). But lately Ford has been getting good reports, so I wonder if they've really turned things around the past few years. (I've also heard that Kia and Hyundai have become pretty reliable as well. True?)
I love my Toyota. We've always had Toyotas and/or Hondas and we've had few problems with them. I definitely think that the Toyota recall thing got blown way out of proportion, in no small part due to Toyota's lack of ethics.
April 12th, 2010 at 10:52 PM ^
One guy told you that, and you totally believed him? You're just hearing that Hyundai is reliable? I'm kind of confused here.
April 12th, 2010 at 11:54 PM ^
It's a family friend who is a mechanic who told me about GM. It's probably important to mention that this was about 8 years ago. Then reports soon followed (I remember that it was a legit source, I think CNN reporting on a report Forbes, Fortune, or JD Powers--one of those) that suggested that the guy might have been right at the time. Believe me, I've always been Toyota and Honda all the way. Many things have probably changed in the past few years, so it's certainly possible that GM quality has declined, but that kind of fall--had one indeed taken place--is quite a bit large.
Separately, I read somewhere a few years ago that Kia and Hyundai had improved, with Kia coming a long way from the joke that it stood for "killed in action." Note the language: "I've also heard that Kia and Hyundai have become pretty reliable as well. True?" I should have written "read somewhere" instead of "heard", but in no way should anything I said be taken as an authoritative statement.
When you add in the timeline your statements make a lot more sense. Thanks.
April 13th, 2010 at 11:04 AM ^
Yeah that first post was like the Last King of Scotland of blog posts.
(You know, because it recounted events over a ~10-year period but left out the timeline? Ahhh, good one...)
That is one of the worst designed websites ever. Thanks, but next time I'd like to be able to read more than 3 sentences without a box asking me what I think of the article, polling me, or making me click to the second half of the article.
/nerd rant
Forbes and magazines like that won't rate American cars highly b/c its not vogue to own one.
http://blogs.consumerreports.org/cars/2010/04/consumer-reports-2010-lex…
I'd rather an uncool car than an unsafe car though.