OT - Worst-Made Cars on the Road
Forbes came out with their annual "worst-made cars on the road" list. Unfortunately the top 7 spots all go to "Big 3" products.
1. Cadillac Escalade
2. Chevrolet Aveo
3. Chevrolet Colorado
4. Dodge Nitro
5. Ford F-250
6. GMC Canyon
7. Jeep Wrangler
Considering the gains that GM is making of late, this is a bit of a bad break. Thoughts?
http://www.forbes.com/2010/04/07/worst-made-cars-lifestyle-vehicles-gm-…
Was this covering a particular model year (years?) or just in general?
According to the article they used the CR data for 2010 models
evidently didn't include Toyota. Help me out here, does five passenger seating, comfortable interior, good gas mileage and a moderately attractive exterior outweigh being able to STOP THE DAMN CAR? Does all the good stuff outweigh deliberately HIDING VERY SERIOUS SAFETY CONCERNS?
April 12th, 2010 at 10:36 PM ^
My last 2 vehicles have been Toyotas. Both Tacomas, my wife has had 2 Camrys, now she has a Hyundai and wishes she had another Camry. My Mom's last 2 vehicles were Toyotas and our total feeling is that they are great cars. Now with that being said I think they have screwed themselves big time by not reporting their problems. The guy in the prius that melted his brakes doing 90 mph, the one that the cop had to help stop. I keep asking myself why he cold not jut reach up and turn off the key. Maybe there was something that I did not pick up on the news but that seems like it would be the first logical step if the accelerator stuck.
Considering the Prius has a push button start, there is no key to turn. However, he could have put the car in neutral and shut off the engine with the push button.
And you know what I think is terrible? The Toyota Corolla, the cockpit is made for a tiny tiny person. Save goes with the Toyota Yaris. I refuse to rent those.
On the American side, pretty much everything from the Chrysler/Jeep/Dodge/Ram family has been disappointing, although I don't rent those very often. I don't know if any of you drive the Dodge Caliber, but if you do, God help you. Seeing out the rear window of that car is like trying to up a shower drain into the girls locker room....wait, what?
I have been impressed with the Fords, although they have this annoying extra wipe about 15 seconds after you spray the windshield.
Totally agree with you. Was stuck with one while our other car was getting some hail damage repaired. That thing epically sucked.
Would you say it was of poor caliber?
ZING!
Can sometimes be really, really important.
April 12th, 2010 at 10:33 PM ^
rented, and I have gone tiny. Surprisingly good recently: a Kia Rio. And they're practically free (10 Gs).
April 13th, 2010 at 10:47 AM ^
Kia (and Hyundai since they own both names) are coming on strong. I did a very long research report on Hyundai. They have followed the Toyota model for market penetration then growth. They've also "borrowed" technology from just about everyone on how to produce quality cars. The factories that they are building are supposed to be almost clones of the BMW factories which are supposed to be state-of-the-art.
The older Kia/Hyundai brands were focused on market entry not gaining share.
April 12th, 2010 at 10:38 PM ^
I drove the Nitro going out of town about two months ago. The handle of the car was something to be desired. But it was good on gas. Drove from Michigan to Ten...and had to fill up twice. That is going and coming and once while I was there. Now, the Grand Cherokee drives like a car...handles and performs excellently, but the gas mileage is something to be desired.
My family had been engineers at GM and Ford for three generations (until mine). They all took the free cars while they worked there, but as soon as they retired or left they bought foreign.
I did a short stint as a consultant at Willow Run back in the 90s, and was appalled and simply amazed that the company remained in operation. It was like a dinosaur that had died, but the message had not yet reached the limbs and the legs continued to stagger the body forward.
Ford plant near where I grew up...conventional wisdom was to find out the day your prospective car was made and to never buy a car constructed on a Monday or a Friday.
April 12th, 2010 at 10:46 PM ^
I hate to sound like a Holly Homer now...But we buy cars based on perception now. The big three has made huge strides to close the gap between their quality and that of the foreign auto makers. But what keeps killing them is the perception that foreign products are soooo much better. The gap is a lot smaller than what most think now. A lot of the same concepts and principles are used to gauge quality and they are also steering towards World Class Manufacturing philosophies. But, sadly, when you have chased your tail for so long it goes unnoticed.
Most of the domestic car makers use very cheap materials to finish the inside of the car, and provide very poor sound insulation. That is one area (other than general reliability) that the Germans and Japanese definitely beat most US auto makers.
Forbes used the Consumer Reports overall scores for 2010 vehicles.
CR has one of the WORST automotive rating processes in the industry. I'll go on a big rant on CR if people don't believe me. Two of those vehicles I can guarantee are not designed for CR's study. In the latest CR they down-rated my current car because it seats 4, not 5. If I needed 5 seats, i'd shop for a 5 seater. I do not understand how this is a negative in terms of how a car should be rated. Anyway, the Jeep Wrangler is constantly the worst rated vehicle by CR. As the owner of a '98 Jeep, I can say it is one of the worst driving road cars ever. It's loud, rough, gets bad mileage, etc. But guess what, it goes ANYWHERE. This wasn't a "car" designed for a road test. It's an off road vehicle that does amazingly well on the highway. I've driven my Jeep on trails that were crazy, then drove right off onto the highway 200 miles home at 70MPH. That's a damn impressive piece of machinery, and is very well built. I can't comment on the F-250, but It's not designed for a road test either. The damn thing is a work truck, I'm sorry it's not as cushy as a Camry.
Anyway, that's my small rant. As an engineer I find it hard to trust other's rankings of anything. Go drive the car. If it feels solid, does what you need, you should be good. If it feels cheap, is too slow/gas guzzling/etc. then don't get it. Have someone who knows cars go with you.
I don't trust car advice from "experts" like CR who review toasters and washing machines, or those like Forbes who do money. I get my car advice from people/magazines who do car's only.
The most valuable lesson I learned while working my way through UM at an Ann Arbor dealership is "There's an ass for every seat". Everyone values, and looks for, different aspects in a vehicle. Could you imagine how your grandmother would rate a Ferrari? If she's anything like mine she'd think it were created by the Soviets. But Buicks are the best thing ever. There's an ass for every seat.
I used to work for a company that sold cars, and that was literally the mantra for our pricing strategy guys.
That and 'Fuck it.'
CR is hardly unbiased in its rating of automobiles. Yet, people quote it like it is absolute truth. The point about the Wrangler is telling. No one buys one of those for a quite, cushy ride. You buy it BECAUSE it is tough and loud and you can take the top off. By the way - they last forever.
CR imposes its own views on the ratings. They tend to favor imports over domestics because that's what the CR editorial staff like. That's fine for them, but big three bashing based on CR is like going after Rich Rod b/c of what you read in the Freep.
because they DON'T accept advertising. I wouldn't trust that Forbes list any further than I can throw it.
April 12th, 2010 at 10:43 PM ^
I agree that it's good that they don't accept advertising, and I don't think they're biased towards a manufacturer for that reason. What I tried to say, and what I believe others are saying is that while CR might not have the advertising incentive to choose say a camry over an accord, CR is biased towards certain types of cars. Like I mentioned earlier, a 4 seater scored lower than a 5 seater - of near identical cars. They highlighted the 4 seats as a negative.
In a vehicle dynamics class i took at U of M (ME 458 for any other engineers) the professor talked about how GM had to go to the tire manufacturers because they were getting low CR scores. GM asked for the most fuel efficient tires to help their mileage numbers, which in turn made their stopping distances worse. Well CR saw that the Camry stopped 12 feet before the Malibu (or whatever) and GM lost to Toyota again.
I understand that CR doesn't rate one company as a whole, but they also don't look for what I'm looking for in a car. Or what people were going for when they designed the car. Like in my earlier example - My car isn't for someone who needs to haul 5 people around. I understood that before i shopped for it. If I needed to haul 5, i wouldnt have looked at my car. Or the Jeep - Jeep engineers built the best out-of-the-box offroad beast ever, and tried to make it road friendly too. Guess what, it doesnt ride as nicely as a Malibu or Camry, but is it a worse car? Depends on what you want it for!
A big reason I ignore them is that they rarely if ever test cars with a Manual transmission. but thats just another mini beef i have with them.
Thats where CR's bias is, their ratings are for 1 car shopper - they aren't looking for what I want in a car, theyre looking for what their staff wants/thinks the average american wants in a car.
April 12th, 2010 at 11:26 PM ^
i drive a '07 wrangler currently, drove a '04 wrangler before that. over 60,000 miles on each one and never had a problem with either. i read a while ago that something like 75% of wrangler buyers never even considered another vehicle - no shopping around, no test drives, just knew what they wanted and bought it. a person from a publication like CR is gonna hop in a wrangler and hear the wind noise, feel the bumps, hate the back seat, and give it a poor review. this is in no way a reflection of people who actually buy wranglers - we take the doors off for more noise, run over bumps on purpose, and keep our backseats in our garages. that's my co-rant.
Consumer Reports is stupid. Anyone who shops by recommendation of Consumer Reports is not shopping for a vehicle, they are shopping for an appliance.
But it blends!
It comes with a set of ginsu knives!
And Jeep owners have the Jeep Wave. That should count for something.
return wave slash head nod
waver myself.
Like your avatar, that yours? The jeep in my avatar is mine... on my worst stuck
OK...I'll bite. One of the items provided by CR is their frequency of repair reports provided by owners for the reliability of various systems in vehicles. Is the data false? Not from my experience, and this includes a bunch of vettes, Silverado trucks along with Japanese and German cars. Problems I have experienced have an uncanny knack of showing up as being a problem in a particular model for a particular year. If not for CR, where are you going to get the data? From the car manufacturers? Not hardly.
I read a bunch of car mags and I have always felt that it is rare to see a scathing indictment of a new vehicle or a road test if the magazine is replete with page after page of ads from that vehicle's manufacturer. I believe this is commonly known among car people. You don't bite the hand that feeds.
As you noted, you have to drive a vehicle to know what it is about. You can also learn a ton by going to various blogs and seeing what people bitch about. CR simply provides another piece of data to use in your evaluation of a vehicle, but I personally find their info to be of real value in making a purchasing decision.
I was going to comment on the idea that it was a FORBES review of vehicles. What about AutoWeek or Car and Driver. I would recommend magazines or websites like edmunds.com. As far as I'm concerned the first place to go would be edmunds.com and the last place to go would be to a financial magazine.
And you're right about CR. They don't necessarily report on problems, they frequently report on trips to the shop. If cars go back to the dealer to get their oil changed, it's a black mark against them because they went back to the dealer. Never mind if it was for NORMAL maintenance.
Note that 5 of them are GM products, not that this is a perfect study, but it seems to bring to the front that there was a reason GM should have gone bankrupt. Sorry but I won't be buying any government motors cars. GM and Chrysler both made lots of bad decisions for a long period of time. Ford wasn't too far behind but at least their management saw the trouble coming and began to prepare for it.
Ford faced the same troubles as GM and Chrysler years earlier. They mortgaged their Ford trademark among other things to raise $23 billion to finance their restructuring. Years later, when GM and Chrysler ended up in the same situation, they could not mortgage anything and required governmental support because the whole financial industry fell.
All I'm saying is that Ford gets a lot of credit for "avoiding" the problem when really they faced the same problem, just at a much better time than GM and Chrysler.
I'm pretty sure all auto companies were in the same boat when Mulally mortgaged the Blue Oval for $23B. It's kind of disingenuous to say Ford "avoided" the problem when Mulally made that decision within 6 months of joining Ford.
http://articles.latimes.com/2005/jun/16/business/fi-gm16
A shift in advertising to those markets is part of GM's plan to recover from a $1.1-billion first-quarter loss, its biggest quarterly loss in 13 years.It really wasn't "years earlier" or anything like that; Ford (under Mulally) just got tired of pretending that if they continued on the current path all would be ok.
that Ford shouldn't get any credit for turning their ship around years before their adversaries blundered into bankruptcy?
That sounds vaguely toolish. Actually VERY toolish.
Ford decided they needed to do something about it and fixed their situation from the top down, the other two went bankrupt and were FORCED to TRY to fix the issues. GM obviously hasn't (see the procession of high ranking officials) and Chrysler sold them selves to another company.
They're OBVIOUSLY doing a bang-up job, just like Ford did. (Sarcasm!!!!!)
I would have to say my 95' Dodge Dakota Sport. P.O.S. It will be the death of me.
The Dodge of Death!
Sort of like a backup on the set of Christine?
Maybe we need a The Dodge of Death driven by Death Roh!
It can't be that bad if it's still on the road 15 years after it was made.
good point. it gets me around GR. but with the shitty roads here im pretty sure the wheels are going to fall off. Combine that with no heat, no radio, non working windshield wipers, only one working door, shitty breaks that no matter what i do are shitty, busted seat belts, one working headlight no matter what, and a few other problems, its safe to call it a p.o.s. but im am lucky enough to have something that gets me around thats paid off so i shouldn't complain.
was just like that, and I have to admit you've got me laughing hard enough to cry.... I went out a month ago and junked the thing and now I am the second owner of a 2006 VW Jetta. Badass car. I've never had such a huge swing from a POS to a gem in my life. I would recommend it to anyone, anytime.
You got me thinking. I just went through a huge swing as well.
-Second owner of a 1999 Jeep Cherokee (bought it in 2002). Had to 180K and was in decent shape for a car of that age until it was stolen. It was found in a bad part of Chicago and was pretty beat up when I got it back. I won't go into all the details of what the assailants did to my Jeep, but I had to start it will a tire iron or screw driver after I got it back. I held on to it until for about a year and sold it for 1K.
-Now, proud owner of a 2010 Audi A5. Badass fucking car!
a Jetta is only badass if you're a sorority girl on the way to her country club....
April 12th, 2010 at 10:35 PM ^
I seriously considered a Jetta GLI before buying my new car.
200 HP, 33MPG, 6 speed manual... it's pretty sweet. It's a GTI with a trunk
April 13th, 2010 at 12:57 AM ^
Im sorry but when you said you went from a POS to a gem then mentioned it was a Jetta I laughed my ass off!! My wife and I bought a brand new 1.8T Jetta in 2002 and just thought it was the greatest thing ever, until we had it for a couple months. That car was the biggest pile we have ever owned and we have owned some epic piles! Then we thought maybe we just bought a turd. So we bought a brand new Taureg on 2008. Now it wasnt as bad as the Jetta but lets just say we will never buy another VW! But thats just one man's opinion so I wish you the best of luck with your Jetta. May you enjoy it for years to come. I now drive a 2009 Land Rover LR3 and I love it. I also have a 94 Wrangler and while it needs constant work, it is a 94, I enjoy it very much. To each his own I guess
Really Consumers Reports, Really? Perhaps gas millage is more important then you know, stopping?
Wasn't the only alleged case of an accelerator issue with the Prius later proven to have been a fake? Or are you referring to something else?
Note - I'm not a fan of the Prius, but I just wanted to make sure you weren't talking about the acceleration issue.
http://www.autorecalls.us/aut-02/recalls/toyota/prius/index.html
I know that there was a guy who allegedly made up a story about his Prius accelerating, but I would say that all of the recalls say there is some kind of problem with acceleration.
Was one individual trying to cash in on the recent slew of recalls and safety issues, among which was the accelerator issue.
That was out near me, and I'm not entirely sure how he hoped to cash in. He basically drove really fast (for a Prius), called the cops, and eventually they stopped him--presumably causing some level of damage to the car. What was he going to do, claim a waste of twenty minutes and some scary driving?
I think he just wanted 15 minutes.