OT: Worst coach to ever win a major championship?

Submitted by M-Wolverine on

I had on the radio, and they were kind of making fun of Doc Rivers, who won an NBA Championship as coach of the Celtics. And it got me to thinking....who IS the worst coach to ever win a major championship...who can't you believe got a ring...?  Their team had to be really good to carry him (or her), or the competition had to collapse and open the way, something happened that this person won one or more championships coaching their team...but you never felt they were particularly good at it.  

I'm thinking winning it all, in any sport...not someone lucks into a Big Ten Championship because they don't play Michigan or Ohio State that year...really accomplished something.  But still having very little to do with that accomplishment.  Who would you nominate, who drives you crazy that they've won it all?

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WolvinLA2

May 7th, 2010 at 9:03 PM ^

I'm not complaining about the payroll issue.  I'm a Tigers fan and we have wealthy owner who likes to shell it out too.  But if I was a fan of the Marlins or the Pirates or the A's who lose their good players to the Sox or the Yanks or the Dodgers because we couldn't pay them enough, I'd be pissed.  

And fine, if baseball playoffs are such a crapshoot, then it's completely moot to discuss which managers are good in the playoffs.  Then Torre wasn't good nor bad, he got what he got.

Joined: 11/13/2009

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Michigan Arrogance

May 7th, 2010 at 9:10 PM ^

The highest all time winning percentages team: all time record

 

The Yankees are first

 

... at a whopping  .567

 

best post war win %age in a single season:

1954 Cleveland Indians AL 111 43 .721

over a 7 game series, the best reg. season team in post war history would be expected to win .721* 7 = 5 games against the median team in MLB.  the playoffs obviously have teams that are better than the hypotheitcal median team, so the best team in reg season history (post war) would be expected to win less than 5 games in a 7 game series.

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bluebrains98

May 7th, 2010 at 6:08 PM ^

It's all well and good to suggest that Phil Jackson has always had all-star lineups. But the key to establishing that a "bad coach" has won is to show that he can't make teams perform to their potential or above their potential. We have never seen any evidence that Phil does not get his teams to live up to their potential. This may be due to a lack of opportunity, but the evidence simply isn't there.

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ihartbraylon

May 7th, 2010 at 5:43 PM ^

Pau Gasol is probably a hall of famer, one of the most skilled big men in the league. AndrewBynum is one of the better centers in the league.  Then there's Lamar Odom, who basically averages a double double and is one of the most versatile forwards in the game. Three players on the front line who can score and get 10 rebound a game. Ron Artest isn't all that he used to be, but he's still one of the league's premier defenders. And that's surrounding the best 2-guard in the game, one of the best of all time. No other team can match that talent, Phil has it easy

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WolvinLA2

May 7th, 2010 at 5:58 PM ^

Pau Gasol in NOT a HOFer, unless he has 8-10 more seasons where he plays good step better than he has so far.  He's been an all-star 3 times, and all-NBA 3rd team twice.  He averages 18 and 9 for his career (not bad, but Webber was better than that over a long career, and had double the assist avg.).  This does not a HOFer make.

Bynum is one of the better centers in the league, I agree.   But not top 3 or anything.  And when you bring up Lamar Odom in this discussion when comparing the talent of this team to his previous championship winners, I know the convo needs to end.  He averages 10 and 10 and doesn't even start.  Come on.  

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EverybodyMurders

May 7th, 2010 at 5:33 PM ^

While your points are all true, you do have to think about it the other way as well. Jordan, Pippen and Kobe never won without Phil either. It's a symbiotic relationship, and I don't think you can fault Jackson for that. The man has 10 titles, he knows what he's doing. Do you fault Red for having Bill Russell?

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jtmc33

May 7th, 2010 at 5:35 PM ^

Great players don't leave a Phil Jackson team, they want to play on his teams (same for Torre in NYY, and now LA).

Neither have been the coach of a bad team and they always win.

Stories of Jackson's mind-games on a teams full of assholes and entitled superstars (in both LA and Chicago) are legendary.  Maybe you don't need to know Xs and Os to win when you have the top talent, but you need to know how to manage people.  So, "if" they aren't great "coaches" (which can always be argued) they are at least amazing managers. 

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Steve Lorenz

May 7th, 2010 at 5:39 PM ^

If you're going to even bring up Jackson, you can't not bring up Red Auerbach. Talk about having a stacked team in a weak league.....I know Simmons tried squashing the idea that Boston was so much better than the rest of the league during Auerbach's era but I wasn't buying it. They had four HOFs in their starting lineup at one point. The better question would have been who couldn't win with that team? 

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st barth

May 7th, 2010 at 6:37 PM ^

Phil Jackson was the first name that came to my mind.  Maybe he's not a bad coach...but have MJ and Shaq in their primes certainly makes him a lucky coach.

I think if this thread is proving anything, it's that basketball coaches are probably the less important to championships than having star players.

Joined: 12/02/2008

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mghorm

May 7th, 2010 at 7:56 PM ^

true but basketball is the only major sport where one guy can win the game by himself. People can put in good performances in other sports but how often do we see lebron, kobe, jordan, etc, say fuck this i am not going to let us lose this game. The next closes thing is a QB in football, but then thats why dynasties always have hall of fame Qb's 

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jmblue

May 7th, 2010 at 9:02 PM ^

A hockey goalie has more impact on the outcome of a game than any basketball player.  Anyway, there have been many games in which a losing team had a guy that scored 40+ points.  LeBron's never won a title and Jordan/Kobe didn't until they had a fellow superstar to play with.

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PurpleStuff

May 7th, 2010 at 5:37 PM ^

Backed into the title game with two losses after inheriting a talented team and a recruiting powerhouse from Saban.  Beat a pretty average OSU team with Todd Boeckman at QB.  Program appears to be slipping the further they get from the Saban/Miles transition. 

Time will tell I guess.

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jblaze

May 7th, 2010 at 5:42 PM ^

I don't think he's a good coach. He's a good CEO type guy who hires and manages great coordinators, which is a decent model. The trouble is when those coordinators leave, and he had to get lucky and find new guys who were just as great as the old coordinators.

 

I guess time will tell, but I definitely think its Miles.

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Seth9

May 7th, 2010 at 8:14 PM ^

You are saying that Jackson and Torre may be the worst coaches to win a championship because they had highly talented players that other teams could win with, but you excuse Miles, who had the same situation and only won the NCAA championship because he was incredibly lucky that West Virginia lost to Pitt. Then, his teams began declining. Also, Miles has demonstrated major deficiencies when it comes to clock management, which is a pretty basic coaching skill.

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blue note

May 7th, 2010 at 6:25 PM ^

In recent history it's got to be Les Miles. This man can recruit and hire good coordinators, but he clueless on the sidelines.

Anyone see their Chinese fire drill style attempts at running a 2 minute drill the last 2 years? Beyond embarrassing. LSU fans have already given up on him.

They win despite him, not because of him... this is only going to get more obvious over time.

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Beavis

May 7th, 2010 at 5:47 PM ^

Paul Westhead?

Won as coach of the Lakers in 1980 and then his career.... well....

[Edit - has to be Westhead, right? I mean, the guy was fired 11 games into the 81-82 season and the Lakers went on to win the title without him. He was then out of the NBA head coaching circle until 1990, when he coached two seasons with Denver, and then gone again.  Now he's coaching the girls team at Oregon.  Oh, and his NBA winning percentage as a coach? 45%.  check it out: http://www.basketball-reference.com/coaches/westhpa99c.html]

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CWoodson

May 7th, 2010 at 6:42 PM ^

All this Westhead bashing ignores what he was able to do at LMU, which had never been seen before at the college level.  That team without the Gathers tragedy contends for a title.  He's got a WNBA title, for whatever that's worth (not much, but still - his system has worked in many places).  LA fired him due to conflicts with Magic, not sucking.

Maybe a crappy NBA head coach, but NOT an awful basketball coach, and no way he's the worst coach to ever win a title in any sport.  That's like saying Pitino is the worst coach ever with a title because he was terrible with the Celtics (where his winning % was well under 45%).

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Twisted Martini

May 7th, 2010 at 5:46 PM ^

Supposed to be an offensive genius, and yet their offense sucks.  Only due to Marvin Lewis's defense did they win a Super Bowl.

Coker.  'Nuff said.

Don't know if this counts, but Derrike Cope.  Dude was literally handed the Daytona 500 when Earnhardt cut a tire in the closing laps.  Won another race that same year and didn't sniff Victory Lane for the rest of his career.

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BiSB

May 7th, 2010 at 5:56 PM ^

He took a team that Tony Dungy put together, won a championship with it, and proceeded to run it into the ground.  The Bucs were under .500 overall in the next 6 years, and he never won another playoff game.

Fortunately he's found his calling as a guru to Tim Tebow.

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Tater

May 7th, 2010 at 9:25 PM ^

The Bucs traded away a shitload of draft choices for Gruden.  The ensuing lack of picks, combined with incompetence on the part of the GM, pretty much put Gruden in a no-win situation by his third year.  I would have "voted" for Gruden, but look at what happened to the Bucs the first year after he left.  They were far worse without him.

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chitownblue2

May 8th, 2010 at 2:01 AM ^

After compiling a 40–28 win-loss record in four seasons with the Raiders, Gruden replaced the fired Tony Dungy as head coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers in 2002, via a high-stakes trade that included Tampa Bay's 2002 and 2003 first-round draft picks, 2002 and 2004 second-round draft picks, and $8 million in cash. The trade took place for a number of reasons, including Davis' desire for a more vertical passing attack rather than Gruden's horizontal pass attack, the fact that Gruden's contract would expire a year after the trade, and Davis' uncertainty over whether Gruden was worth as much money as his next contract was sure to pay him. Gruden signed a five-year contract with the Buccaneers worth $17.5 million.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jon_Gruden#Oakland_Raiders

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