I think both today's game and tomorrow's are toss-ups. I would prefer either an all-Europe final or an all-South American final, purely for the lulz.
I predict Brazil somehow pulls today out 2-1.
Mark Geiger is the first American referee to be involved in a World Cup semi. Let's hope it is a better called game than Brazil versus Columbia
Germany and Argentina in the final.
Argentina wins 3-2. Messi with 2 goals with the second and winner in the 86th minute.
that may be the worst possible outcome possible in this cup! I don't know whether I'm hoping Brazil wins more than I'm just hoping Argentina doesn't... but a last minute goal by argentina in a situation like that would kill me...
I say Brazil x Argentina in the final... the two biggest rivals head-to-head... everything to play for... 2x1 Brazil, scoring off a corner kick in the 90th...
Knowing Naymar is out and that Messi & Co have struggled to score I think the "best" game to watch would be a Germany vs Netherlands final. Both teams have a lot of star power. Both teams are clinical attackers. And both are in dire need of winning a World Cup ASAP before their generation of talent is gone.
The old man responds - "soccer is game where guys run back and forth kicking the ball for 90 minutes trying to get it in the goal and when the game is over, Germany wins."
I like Die Mannschaft's chances with both Silva and Neymar out for the match. That puts tremendous pressure on Oscar and Hulk to produce (Fred has been disappointing thus far), and the Germans have done a good job sensitizing the refs to Brazil's penchant for tactical hard fouling. I think that adds up to a German win on Brazilian soil.
Does anyone know how the amnesty kicks in for yellow cards. If a player pulls a second yellow in the quarterfinals, does he simply carry one forward for the balance of the tournament. Or does everyone enter the quarterfinals with a clean slate? I know there's some sort of amnesty that kicks in with the quarterfinals, but have not seen how exactly it works.
One could be suspended for the semifinals via card accumulation (which is why Thiago Silva is out), but yellow cards are reset after the quarterfinals in order to ensure that no one is suspended for the final via card accumulation.
Thanks - that's very helpful. And based on your avatar I'm going to take a wild guess and predict you're pulling for Die Manschafft.
Call it intuition.
You'd guess correctly. Auf gehts (or, to go with the dialect of my avatar, Pack ma's)!
If a player were to get 2 yellow's in the semi-finals, is he out for the finals?
Yes. The second yellow would draw a red card and an automatic 1-game suspension.
What's up with this CDT bullshit.
Shut your mouth.
I don't know how today's is a "toss-up," given that Silva and Neymar are out. Would love to see a Brazil-Argentina final, though. If the not-Messis show up for Argentina, they will be hard to beat. If it's Messi v. the Dutch, Messi will be slightly less hard to beat.
This game was a tossup if everyone was healthy.
Germany losing today would be an upset.
I think the home-field advantage for Brazil gives them enough to match up with Germany. Then again, the immense pressure (really never seen anything like it in sports, actually) may backfire on the Brazilians.
I think there's a definite limit to home field advantage. Germany in the WC semis without your 2 best players is too much to overcome I think.
I'm with you, but my gut is telling me that Brazil is going to play out of their skulls, with or without Neymar and Silva. This is why I don't make money gambling.
Here's how it looks now on FiveThirtyEight for those who remain:
Statistics/algorithms/shmastistics. You don't have that high of a chance to win a game without your only attacking presence, and one of the best defenders in the world (the best IMHO, Kompany has had as good a year excluding a horrific quarterfinal against Argentina). Especially against a healthy German midfield.
People are deluding themselves if they think Dante is as good a defender as Silva. Silva broke up at least one odd-man rush against Columbia, and I don't remember him losing an aerial 50-50 ball.
Yikes. Nate Silver took one on the chin there.
Today I think Germany wins. I think they score early.
I'll count 11 minutes as early.
Odd, seems the mods have edited out where I also predict the Germans go up 5 nil in the first half. Shame.
I tend to get a bit nervous when Germans rally together to conquer countries across the globe.
Brazil: Julio Cesar, David Luiz (c), Fernandinho, Marcelo, Hulk, Fred, Oscar, Dante, Luiz Gustavo, Bernard, Maicon
Germany: Neuer, Hoewedes, Hummels, Khedira, Schweinsteiger, Ozil, Klose, Muller, Lahm (c), Kroos, Boateng
I think it plays out a lot like Spain v. Netherlands. (The 2010 version.)
This is a Scolari team we're talking about here. There's no way they let the other side play tiki taka.
We're both wrong.
Come on Germans
Shitty defending lol
this is over
Way too easy. If Germany don't fall back they could get a few more easily.
And dribbles too much.
Playing as a team. Their team defense is superb! Goooooooaaaaallll!
LMAO at Brazil
I hope Germany wins by 10
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA Brazil. So far at least. I like the taste of Brazilian tears.
Getting flashbacks to the 1998 finals. And as I type another goal
Aaaaaaaand, holy shit Germany is destroying them worse than Portugal.
This looks like an according-to-Hoyle ass-kicking.
Brazil sucks ass
This is unbelievable.
Lmao no way, this is majestic.
4-0 Kroos again!
Oh. My. God. This isn't even fun anymore.
Fuck you Brazil!
Holy smokes this is insane.
Well they just stopped trying.
So this is happeneing.
THE FUCK IS HAPPENING!?!?
IT'S NOT WORTH WINNING IF YOU CAN'T WIN BIG
Truly bizarre. I feel pretty good about only losing to them by one goal, anyway.
Apparently USA >>> Brazil - (Neymar + Silva).
Apparently Everbody >>> Brazil - (Neymar + Silva).
I wonder if Brazil would have spent a gazillion dollars on soccer stadiums had they known this was how their tournament would end?
I didn't realize that the Brazilians started Patrick Roy in this Game 7.
US lost 1-0 to these guys. Brazil may lose by 8. Love it.
What the hell is happening?!?
WTF... really... O_o....
How many of the Poor Brazlians get shot after this game?
If this was Colombia they'd be gone lol
Do they have a Mercy Rule in the World Cup?
Germany is on pace to win 15-0.
Holy hell this is brutal.
Tiago Silva can not possibly be that important for the team.
The ref from the Brazil/Colombia game better be out of the country already because there are going to be some really pissed off Brazilians after this.
How about these Brazil players? They are bringing shame on their families. Riots will be epic tonight.
Here we're having a nice conversation about the destruction of Brazil, and you have to go all high society with opera on us.
Brazil still hasn't figured out what Germany is doing to them. To my mostly untrained eye, it looks like a secondary break in basketball.
Never seen anything like this. My daughter's high school team plays better defense.
Brazil is OSU football.
So we're going to be up 70-0 in the 2nd Q in Columbus this November?
WOW. The ref just wanted to call a handball on Brazil but the germany player told him not to. That something no one would ever think they would see in the World Cup Semis.
Stfu and play for pride man.
I'm 1/4 German? Seems like the right time to mention that.
My Great Grandfather came over from Germany. Not sure what that makes me...
Mein Gott!! I cannot believe this - poor Brazil :(
It is like they never played together before.
I don't like when the whole tournament is referred to as the "finals". It's weird and confusing ("They made the semifinals of the WC finals").
Well if you consider the World Cup as a tournament that takes about three years throughout the entire world, then it would make sense to call the last leg the 'finals'
I don't think of a 32-team tournament as "the last leg." The other stuff is just qualification, not part of the actual tournament.
It's all about perception. I think most people see the World Cup as the World Cup. The 32 teams in one country that everyone watches.
The more hardcore fans may be the ones referring to it as the Finals since this run of the World Cup technically started in 2011 with qualifying. It is the World Cup Finals but terminology depends mostly on how people view qualifying in my opinion.
I guess Brazil ought to demolish that stadium as soon as the game ends...
Great 8 matchup? Reminds me of this blowout.
As far as shocking results go, this ranks right up there with the Biakabutuka game.
Germany wasn't a huge underdog like we were in '95 though. Also, they're on the road.
I agree, my comparison breaks down almost immediately, but in terms of pure shock factor, the Biakabutuka game is the pinnacle for me.
In 74' Netherlands scored the 4th against Argentina and a defender went quickly to get the ball out of the net when one of his teammates stopped him asking him: What do you want? for them to score the 5th one? take it easy, there's nothing left to do... And today Marcelo went quickly to take the ball out of the net after the 5th goal and I remembered that story.
coming at you Brazil
That's what I said.
Hulk is awful. That need to be a one time cross
Well that escalated quickly...
This is glorious!
Well now i just feel a lot less witty.
It will be interesting to see if that "9 months later" ad rings true if Germany wins this weekend. Germany has been trying to raise its birthrate (which is one of the lowest in Europe) for a long time without success. Maybe a world title will do it.
with the Spanish couple getting it on after a goal, scoring goals creates a good mood.
If I were a Brazilian player, I'd be mighty tempted to go right up the tunnel, out of the stadium, and not stop until I reach Ecuador.
This game is so bad it blew out the ESPN studio.
I would have rage quitted already...
I am experiencing a feeling of great pleasure from Brazil's humiliation... if only there was a word in German that precisely defined this emotion.
utter schadenfreude for me as well
So is Brazil going to at least show a bit of pride and cut the deficit a bit, or will they mail it in even more?
Well it's always more comforting to lose at home than on the road right?
have been all these years had so many Germans not relocated there after WWII.
Maybe the influx of Germans really helped soccer play improve in Brazil because of that "immigration".
I mean think about it, Brazil didn't win a World Cup Title till the late 50's, don't hate on me, I'm just having fun kicking a team while it's down like I hope we kick the shit out of OSU this year.
I guess I understand schadenfreude when the losing team's fans are known assholes. I haven't seen the Brazilian fans do anything asshole-ish so whenever they show one in the stands crying I just feel bad for them.
Until a bunch of them riot and kill someone you mean...
...where that doesn't happen?
People have been paying a lot of attention to this World Cup here in the States, but soccer remains behind football, basketball, baseball, and hockey (at least). There are sports riots in the US - they're just not soccer riots.
You seem like the most lovely person during these games.
Same. I don't have any issue with Brazil (other than that they've already won the WC five times). I'm glad they at least made it this far - the atmosphere isn't the same when the host country bows out.
Let alone 5 goals. Geez another lame drive.
Brazil doing what they do best. Diving
This is just silly. I know Neymar and Silva are out, but there is no reason Brazil should have given up these many goals.
I thought the ESPN update was a mistake! Wow, this is bad. But Brazil has sooooo much pressure on them that they finally broke. Germans, on the other hand, have no emotions.
As a person of German descent, I am aware on an intellectual level that you are wrong, but I feel nothing about this.
kick the ball at the goal sometime in this decade
Germany is full on defend mode.
Lol.... damn Germany let them score one at least.
Apparently it's starting to get ugly at the Fan Zone at Copacabana. Riot police are in the area.
Gotta love Soccer hooligans
I can't imagine how pissed fans will be
I have ever heard considering the score
A lot of burning cars on the streets of Brazil tonight. Not going to be a good night to be outdoors down there
And Brazil is clueless without Neymar.
Brazil and Italy had to wait 24 years to win their 4th WC, Germany won its 3rd 24 years ago.... so...
Speaking of weird historical stuff, Italy made the WC final in 1970, 1982, 1994 and 2006, winning every other time. So for 2018, a runner-up finish?
They won't beat Netherlands.
It's almost unfair that Germany also has the best goalkeeper in the world on top of all this.
Brazil throwing this match? Not even trying.
I can definitely see why these guys would want to embarass themselves as the host nation and have their own fans boo them off the field
^Doesnt follow soccer at all...and it's shadiness.
^ Thinks he knows everything, and acts like a pretentious boob all game.
^Wears tin foil hats. Probably thinks vaccines are given out so the government can control us with their autism
These players are actually going to be in danger after this game. Its one thing to throw it and lose 3-1 (which Brazil would never f'ing do in a World Cup semi at home even for a million bucks a person) and its another to literally take probably the worst loss in your country's history
So would you all trade a trip to the semi-finals for the US if this is how the last game would go? Hypothetical of course. Making the semi-finals would be a tremendous accomplishment but getting blown out like this would kind of blow almost as much in my opinion. I'm sure I would be whatever happens is gravy from here on out but this is just terrible from Brazil's perspective. Also they were playing with fire this entire time but wow this result is still surprising to me.
Anything can happen of course but the interesting this to me is that no matter what Brazil has another game. Will they try to come back from this or are they going to wilt assuming this result holds of course.
Bad for the game.
I hope Fred scores.
So he does not get murdered.
I would think about subbing guys and saving my best players from potential injury for a Finals Game.
You only get three subs per game. Löw has already used one.
Both Hummels and Klose subbed already.
And the 6th one... so we don't get bored I guess =P
"We Germans are not all smiles and sunshine."
to score their 6th goal, they need to do better
Not even FIFA can save Brazil now
6-0 Germany 70th minute
Amateur hour ... Playing with concrete boots on .... He looks happy to be on the field
looking to tack on the extra point
Better go for 2
Go for two Germany
I bet Monk could have played better
So who wins tomorrows game? I am torn as to who to pick. I like the Dutch, but Argentina seems to be on a roll and has a bit of luck on their side.
I hate Robben. I will never cheer for the Dutch. Although my mentor was Dutch...Messi all the way.
Before it's too late, ppl booing everytime he's on the screen...
Hilarious that Phil is leaving him in
Big Phil done?
Holy shit, the Final is going to be in a coma. After wintessing this, nobody will risk anything. Both teams will park a double decker bus 3 yards in front of the goal. The match will end 0-0 and be decided on penalty kicks.
It's so bad the score display has to scroll down when showing all the goal scorers.
Doesn't ESPN have both a Brazilian and a German soccer analyst at the desk? Maybe they started fighting and that's the reason we didn't see the usual halftime thing.
Is it to Brazil's credit or discredit that somebody just hasn't spiked a German? Perhaps no one in yellow has the metabolism for it.
Too bad Scwinsteiger (sp?) isn't on Brazil. Five minutes into the 2nd half he's screaming at his team to knock it off and play responsibly.
Like Brazil and Neymar. Take the Clockwork Orange tomorrow.
A Brazil Argentina 3rd place game could get really ugly
Silva will be back for the 3rd place game
before he gets hurt, their best player
Extra point is good!
a Brazilion goals
The Brazil team's bus may get hijacked
Germany, now you're just being mean.
And it's good! 7-0
Germany was listening to us
Seven to Zero
terrible for Brazil now. Their whole national identity is tied to soccer.
They won't forget this forever.
Nice defending Luiz you douche!
And the extra point is good.
I was going to say any football game, but then the answer is "every Superbowl ever except two or three", but what about college football blowouts? Involving Michigan?
34-8 over PSU in '97? I wasn't that shocked... PSU was badly overrated.
Oregon blows us out 39-7in Big House in '07 a week after The Horror? Maybe.
Non-Michigan: I thought USC's 55-19 blowout of OU in the Orange Bowl/Natty Championship was pretty shocking at the time.
This would be like the '05 USC dynasty losing 70-0 at home. 7-0 isn't just losing, it's a historic beatdown
'97 PSU is a good one. I thought we were better than them, but not that much better. Likewise, I thought Germany would win today, but certainly not like this.
Never mind. You said college, not all football. I have nothing.
2006 UM vs ND? Notre Dame thought that they had the heisman winner and that it was their year. Then Michigan went in and stomped the sh*t out of them. And I am in Argentina now so I have to root for Messi and Co.
I cannot believe this is happening.
How often do soccer games end with a team winning by 7? Much less Brazil at home in a world cup semi. Nearly unbelievable
Brazil is now -1 in goal difference (10 scored, 11 given up) for this World Cup thanks to this game. Unreal.
they don't need to give the Germans more time to score
Germany should take a knee next.
that the graphic on the screen has to scroll down to show them all
As Darke said, morbid fascination is correct. You just don't see this kind of stuff at this level of any sport really.
Guys in the booth are hilarious. Pure gold.
Only national humiliation of a soccer power at home that comes close.
The magic Magyars featured Puscas.
Poor Neymar's got to feel horrible watching this.
True enough, but Silva probably feels worse - especially because his yellow against Colombia was due to an unsporting move that did nothing to help Brazil. Neymar didn't really do anything to feel guilty about.
Not that he'd feel guilty - it's just got to suck to watch your team completely fold without you.
think about how valuable that makes you look. Wonder if he brings this up next time his pro contract is up for renegotiation...
And easy to say after seeing the game but Silva's absence hurt much more.
Goal!!! whooooo!!!... guys!, guys!??
Brazil scored! It's a miracle!
good for Brazil
OSCARRRR WOOOO!!!! DON'T CALL IT A COMEBACK BITCHES. THEY WAS HERE DA WHOLE TIME
Oscar at least saves the home team the humiliation of a clean sheet. (Not that they'll run out of humiliation anytime soon.)
Well that was enjoyable.
Pity Brazil got that last one and Ozil missed that last one.
Could not watch, but had a friend in Germany sending me e-mails periodically.
How did the crowd react to Oscar's late goal? True appreciation? Derision? Something else?
Inquiring minds want to know.
Loud (Bronx?) cheer for about two seconds, then silence. The crowd did chant "Bra-sil!" a few moments later.
I bet they were wasted by then.
Brazilian fans actually applauded the Germans 7th goal due to quality.
Wow. This game...
How are they (per the PA announcement) going to "escort" 10,000 German fans out of there?
10,000 German fans AND the Brazilian team/coaches etc.
triple post ugh
the 2nd half too, 2-1
NOW it's like Michigan's 34-8 '97 win over PSU on "Judgment Day." We were up 34-0 and I remember how pissed I was that PSU got on the board at the very end to screw up the masterpiece. Anyway, that final score probably doesn't scale to 7-1. Maybe if we'd won 70-8.
The bizarre thing about this to me is that I always thought you could just go down to any street corner in Brazil, pick out the first 11 Brazillians you see, put jerseys on them and you'll have a team that can compete. Kinda like I thought you could just put Michigan uniforms on 5 300-lb. dudes and have them block for positive rushing yards. I learned otherwise recently.
Germany the Alabama of Soccer. I hate them, but much respect!
Germany totally oversigns, right?
Brazil got SEC'd.
Well you will never see that again. Home team, considered top 5 team in the world, absolutely decimated. Shows you how much emotion plays in the game even at this level - the Brazilians mentally gave up after the 2nd goal it seemed.
before this match. This was the beginning of total football and forced England to rethink and reshape how they approached the game of soccer. Brazil had their similar historic lesson today. I believe they would have been crushed even with Neymar and Silva.
I also believe Brazil just mentally lost it after falling behind so early. The pressure of winning for their home fans, may have finally gotten to them too. Germany also seemed highly motivated to prove something on Brazilian soil.
Some may be ready to give the World Cup crown to Germany after this performance. Though the Netherlands or Argentina may still play them tough.
That might have been why it was seven instead of two or three.
But I honestly thought Brazil lost this tactically before the match even started. You just can't send both fullbacks on full Roberto-Carlos-style walkabout against a quality counterattacking team and expect to survive. Especially when your midfield is doing the same. And you're missing your best defender.
Tactical suicide. I gather Gilberto and Ballack had figured that out five minutes into the match too.
VCU trying to press Michigan last year...playing right into our strength
The Revenge of the Boys of Brazil?
Rather From Brazil
Die mannschaft rumbles on.
A bit of karma...thought this current Brazilian side thugged up the midfield against Spain in the Confederation cup final. The quarterfinal against Columbia just reaffirmed that opinion.
Scary thing is that Germany is doing this without Marco Reus.
Who Let The Dogs Out?
I know he's banned, but I'd guess he's pretty close to the edge right now.
Ball possession: Brazil 52%, Germany 48%
Shots: Brazil 18, Germany 14
Shots on goal: Brazil 13, Germany 12
Corner kicks: Brazil 7, Germany 5
How much those are skewed by the fact that Germany basically bunkered down the last 60 minutes or so. Brazil did come out firing in the second half, but a lot of that had to be Germany playing much more passively
My impression is confirmed by the charts at zonalmarking--possession was much more heavily in Brazil's favor in the first half hour then it was in the rest of the match. At the half-hour mark Brazil had completed 129 passes to Germany's 83.
"Bunker" wouldn't be my word but Germany stood off from the beginning, inviting the Brazilian pressure and exploiting the space behind. Amazing to me that players at this level wouldn't sense that and be a bit cagy about running into the trap, but I guess that's what happens when your entire back line consists of attacking players.
Brazil had more possession because Germany only needed to complete like three passes before they scored.
Everyone thought it would be a lot Klose than this as Germany easily Kroosed to the finals.
Brazil led like Lahms to slaughter, sank to a new Loew.
It must have Benard for Brazil to play under so much pressure, and then have no Silva lining in the Hummelating loss. The fans
could barely watch any Neymar and Dante knew what to do now. It was so quiet you Khedira pin drop!
After 20 minutes Germany knew they Goetze the game in the bag,
and played with a Neuer or never attitude while Brazil's hopes were hanging from a Fred. But to the Victor go the spoils.
The fans now hope Scolari will be Mertersacked after this ugly game. If it were a film, Schurle it wouldn't win an Oscar.
I am a sad man, a very sad man... that is all... I will unabashedly ask my mgobretheren for any love you guys can send my way... well, futebol is done now counting down to football...
Oh wait they still have a chance ; )
Actually I'm rooting for a Brazil-Argentina consolation match.
This match was perfect commentary on a couple of issues that came up on the board during the tournament:
1. This is the answer to all who wondered why the US didn't play entire matches the way they played the last ten minutes against Belgium.
2. There was some discussion of what US youth players need more--better coaching? or more street soccer? I'm sure the answer is both but this was a demonstration of why street soccer alone can't get you there. You can throw the world's finest dribbling tricksters out there and they'll get shredded if they don't have some tactical sense and cohesion. For the last 14 years, tens of thousands of German youth players have been getting weekly tactical training from professional coaches funded by the DFB. This is the result.
It goes beyond the training institutes, too--they've apparently been working hard on how the youth clubs are run, even for less-exceptional players. Here's a comment at the Guardian on how it works:
When my kid was in the youth teams at 8, they had sports under-graduates from the university teaching them. They also don't play too many competitive matches for the kids and blow the whistle quite often where the kids stop where the coaches (yes several of them) go to each kid and explain why he is in the wrong position and to look around at his team...The kids learn positional football very young. Can you imagine that here the whistle and every kid has to stop and then 10 minutes speaking to them about their position and where they intended to run to ??
My nephews all played and I've watched a lot of 8yo soccer in the US. It doesn't look like that. Frankly, there was never even one coach on the field capable of commenting on positional football even if they'd wanted to do this sort of teaching.
I wouldn't proclaim the Brazilians as being the masters of street soccer and creatvity that they used to be. I found the forwards of Brazil to be very predictable, one footed, and slow to recognize open players - all things you woud not see from "street masters". They also play very direct and rarely had backward digonal passes when then advanced well on hte goal line.
Totally agree that the tactics for Brazil were also abysmal. I think a big part of the problem is that the players all play on different club teams and their strategy was "get the ball to Neymar, and then he dives". The guys who play on Bayern all seemed to be on the same page. Many of the great teams in WC history had players who played on the same club teams.
The entire DFB program, from top to bottom, is structured to produce players to fit the particular style employed by the NT. They play the same way in U17, U21, they teach it to their eight-year-olds. It makes it very easy to fit the pieces together. It wasn't just the Bayern players that were on the same page--they've all been on that same page for 15 years now.
for a club and being put in their club's system where they spend 98% of their training time.
Spain was great because so many of their players played for Barca (talk about a system of play introduced to their youngest).
Obviously Germany overhauled their system after the old system was deemed to not produce results, and look to have done a better job, but it is not that simple. I would argue that Germany's best players personalities fit more into a team concept . They are the Spurs and Brazil are the Heat without Lebron.
The USA is different from Europe and South American countries because it lacks fundamental skills and its squad are not used to playing at high speed/pressure mainly (because the MLS is a secondary league that is slower and less skilled). When more guys play in the big leagues abroad things will dramatically improve regardless of coach or system.
The deep understanding between the starting 6 (off the top of my head) Bayern/ German Nationals was very obvious. Germany look to have taken it to the next level with a system, quality skill (which they always had playing in the BL), and team understanding.
The more players play in the top leagues, and the more they play on the same club teams, the better the team usually does, regardless of the sport.
The USA has recently overhauled their national team program from top to bottom and hopefully it will work.
I wouldn't judge the US system by that or even u12 clubs. The quality of coaching here is improving at all ages, and the Academy system tends to mimic what they do in Europe.
Unfortunately High School soccer will now take a back seat like it does in basketball, hockey and other travel sports.
What a good ole fashioned ass whoopin.