OT: Wisconsin situation gets even more bizarre, Stave is *not* injured, but has "yips"

Submitted by reshp1 on

http://www.foxsports.com/wisconsin/story/qb-controversy-stave-not-hurt-…

"I've just been good at throwing things since I've been young. It's not a lack of confidence. It's not a lack of preparation or anything like that. It's just a matter of getting back to feeling comfortable and feeling like the ball's coming out the way it should."

What, specifically, isn't right? It was a question Stave had a difficult time addressing but one, he said, that seemed to boil down to this basic concept: He is inside his own head, a perfectionist who begins to overthink one bad throw, which leads to more bad throws. Before he knows it, he can't complete simple tosses that he has spent years perfecting.

"I'll be throwing it good, throwing it good and then all of a sudden I feel like I hang on to it too long," Stave said. "One will sail, one will slip and then you start thinking, 'Oh I've got to hang on to it longer.' That's what happens when you start thinking too much."

Andersen said earlier Tuesday during the Big Ten coaches teleconference that he noticed Stave's troubles around the time of the team's second scrimmage on Aug. 18, which was largely closed to the media. Stave was poised to be named the team's starter later that week until the issues surfaced, according to a source close to the situation.

Even during warmups before the season opener, Stave's throws were landing well off target -- a remark that television broadcasters noted on the air.

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Space Coyote

September 3rd, 2014 at 2:57 PM ^

I think this was something that was happening with Kalis a bit last year. Played pretty good, then made some mistakes, then mistakes compounded mistakes, and suddenly he looked like he couldn't do a correct assignment.

Most players at this stage don't suffer from it because they are so confident in themselves, and when they do suffer from it they typically don't have to be in the limelight or playing in the games, they suffer outside of fan's eyes. Sometimes this makes it hard to teach them until they kind of get torn down (you see this with Izzo's players all the time because he really rides them early). As a coach, it's a tough situation to deal with, just as it is for a player.

Joined: 06/18/2009

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Monocle Smile

September 3rd, 2014 at 2:59 PM ^

I'm not even that serious of a golfer, but halfway through the summer, I forgot how to hit an iron. Seriously, I shanked, skulled, or straight-up topped every single iron shot for four weeks. Went to the range and hit 50 balls with just my five iron...all were terrible regardless of my adjustments. Next two weeks were still terrible. I decided I'm done swinging a golf club until next season.

Joined: 09/17/2009

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Space Coyote

September 3rd, 2014 at 3:04 PM ^

Was great with my 4 iron off the tee or off the ground for about a month. Played once with the Father-in-law, pulled it out on a short Par 4 so I didn't drive God knows where, yanked the hell out it, couldn't hit it for the rest of the season. Not couldn't hit it consistently, but I yanked, sliced, topped, toed, healed, somethings I'm not even sure what they were.

Finally, almost regretably pulled it out at one point this year on a long par 3 and it was one of the better shots I hit that round. But golf is the devil when it comes to play mind games.

Joined: 06/18/2009

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ijohnb

September 3rd, 2014 at 3:12 PM ^

your stance and try moving the ball left to right.  You are probably pressing and putting to much of your weight on your toes and consequently restricting your turn.  Open up your feet to the target and concentrate on making a full turn.  Weight on your heels.  

Don't put em up for the year.  Fall golf is the best.

Joined: 09/21/2009

MGoPoints: 69986

pdgoblue25

September 3rd, 2014 at 3:37 PM ^

Got down to a single digit handicap after high school golf, and 2 years ago I pretty much rolled every single driver that I hit.  Had to hit a 2 iron off the tee for the the last month of the season. 

I had been playing since I was 7 years old, and I couldn't get my driver in the air for christ's sake.  The yips are a terrible thing, and I completely understand where this kid is coming from.

Joined: 03/03/2010

MGoPoints: 18950

ESNY

September 3rd, 2014 at 2:57 PM ^

Sergio... thats not really the yips.  Just a routine that has gone to the extreme to feel comfortable. 

Yips refers to a sudden inability to something that you had previously done easily.  Like Knoblach not being able to lob a throw to first base or Roy "Tin Cup" McAvoy "shooting chili peppers up Lee Jansen's ass on the driving range."   Rick Ankiel, Knoblach and Steve Sax are the most well known but you can sadly include Braylon in there when in the NFL, when he could catch a one-handed, jump ball over 2 defenders but couldnt catch easy wideopen passes and had like 20 drops in one season.

Joined: 11/06/2008

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Steve in PA

September 3rd, 2014 at 3:03 PM ^

A catcher who at the peak of his career couldn't throw the ball back to the pitcher.  Some think it was caused by a plate collision (head trauma?) while others think is was psychiatric.  Regardless, it cost him a professional baseball career.

 

I don't know if there is any clips on youtube, but it was very uncomfortable to watch.  Almost like a physical stutter.

Joined: 08/10/2009

MGoPoints: 6327

Yeoman

September 3rd, 2014 at 5:05 PM ^

...because he had no trouble throwing to the bases, only back to the pitcher.

Of course there's no time to think about it when you're throwing to the bases. Maybe that's why the other two really awful cases I can remember were second basemen (Sax, Knoblauch). That's the one position where you've often got time before you throw.

Apparently Sasser became a coach after he retired and his yips made it hard to throw batting practice. He worked with a psychiatrist, got it fixed. Newsday article here.

Joined: 06/08/2011

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Blue Durham

September 4th, 2014 at 10:36 AM ^

Another great example is Ian Baker-Finch. Won the British Open in 1991 and shortly thereafter he couldn't keep his driver on the golf course. From Wikipeadia:
Baker-Finch then famously suffered a complete collapse of his game. The problems were often psychological: He would hit shots flawlessly on the practice range, and then go to the first tee and hit a weak drive into the wrong fairway. In the 1995 Open Championship at St Andrews, he notoriously hooked his first round tee-shot at the first out-of-bounds on the left side of the fairway shared with the 18th, with attention focused on him as his playing partner was Arnold Palmer, competing in his final Open. In 1995 and 1996 he missed the cut, withdrew after one round, or was disqualified in all twenty nine PGA Tour events that he entered. After shooting a 92 in the first round of the 1997 British Open at Royal Troon...[Baker-Finch] withdrew from the championship after one round and retired from tournament golf.
This has been around in all sports, probably forever. Another example is Pittsburgh Pirates pitcher Steve Blass, who was an All Star in the late '60's and early '70s. In the 1971 World Series, he pitched 2 complete game wins against the Orioles. In 1973, he lost control of his pitches and his ERA 9.85. His WAR that season, -4.0, still stands as the worse for a pitcher since 1901! Blass spent 1974 in the minors and was out of baseball the following year. "Steve Blass disease" is has been a lexicon in baseball ever since.

Joined: 06/30/2008

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JHendo

September 3rd, 2014 at 4:20 PM ^

Happened to me in baseball, with batting specifically.  By the end of my freshman year, I finished over .300 with multiple homers and a ton of extra base hits despite not having much speed.  I even closed out the season going 10/11 in my last 3 games with only one of those hits being a single.  The ball was looking like a damn watermelon and I had never been more confident about anything in my life, especially as I just got invited to play summer ball with the varsity players.  

To prep for the summer league, my dad took me to the batting cage.  First few rounds was nothing but sending the ball right back up the middle.  Then, my dad made me switch to 45mph despite my whining that it was a completely unrealistic speed to try hit.  I couldn't hit a single ball, no matter how much I tried to compensate.  I went back into the high speed cage and I couldn't hit those either.  The watermelon sized baseballs had turned to raisins, my mechanics were off and my confidence was permanently shaken.  I had lost my swing and never got it back. My baseball career ended in my junior year and I never forgave my dad for the batting cage experience that gave me the hitting yips.

Joined: 10/25/2008

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B-Nut-GoBlue

September 3rd, 2014 at 5:29 PM ^

A bit different from you but in a similar story, during my very young baseball days dad took me to the cages (this was more in fun, not being an overcompetetive dad trying to practice me as much as possbile) but I went up in speed, was hitting high school speed pitches in the cage, doing it well.  Played next week in my little league and went through a half-season slump, not being able to hit pitching from kids my age (8-9 years old).  Weird stuff. 

Your story is sad though.  It sucks to not be able to do something you are completely capable of doing. (I'm in healthcare and see it on a daily basis with stroke patients, rehab patients, etc....a bit more extreme, of course, than our sports talk, sorry to dramatize!)

Joined: 09/30/2011

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ijohnb

September 3rd, 2014 at 2:36 PM ^

didn't have the Yips, he had the Shanks.  There is a difference.  A person with the Yips knows they have them and things feel different even in terms of preparing to perform.  With the Shanks everything feels fine but the outcome is not.  The Shanks can sometimes lead to the Yips.  I guess it is feasible that Cup had the Shanks on the range in Texas but they had become the Yips by the time he got to the open.

Joined: 09/21/2009

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robpollard

September 3rd, 2014 at 2:41 PM ^

For those who haven't heard of this mysterious issue, the most prominent early example of this was Steve Blass, an all-star pitcher with the world champ Pirates.

He had five or six good/great seasons from 1966-1972, and then dropped completely off a cliff, his ERA going from 2.49 to 9.85. And there was nothing physically wrong with him.

http://www.realclearsports.com/lists/biggest_drop_offs/steve_blass_pirates.html

Joined: 06/03/2009

MGoPoints: 13939

jtmc33

September 3rd, 2014 at 2:14 PM ^

It's called "Getting in your own way."   AKA "Ankiel". 

It's probably what stops 99.9% of us from reaching our athletic potential at some point in our teens   (like when I was a freshman in HS and couldn't stop freaking out every time I was at the free throw line.. otherwise I'd be a role player with the Clippers right now).

Sad this happened after a great year as a starter in D1 football.

Joined: 04/15/2009

MGoPoints: 10052

LSAClassOf2000

September 3rd, 2014 at 2:35 PM ^

Steve Sax suffered from it for part of his career in the middle of the 1980s, as I recall, to a point where he actually led the majors in errors at second base a couple times. I believe he made gradual adjustments to his throwing mechanics and got better over time, and indeed, during his stint with the Yankees, I think he might have even led the majors in fielding percentage at his position. 

Joined: 01/07/2011

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Everyone Murders

September 3rd, 2014 at 2:29 PM ^

So you're suggesting that Stave just down a couple cans of "swing juice" before taking the field?  I see no possible flaw in that suggestion, and he's certainly playing in the right town for that approach. 

"Here's to alcohol - the cause of and and answer to all of life's problems."  - H.J. Simpson

Joined: 12/14/2010

MGoPoints: 65552

LKLIII

September 3rd, 2014 at 2:23 PM ^

I don't know. Usually when I see athletes get the yips, it's in the context of a very isolated motion that is preceded by relative inaction. So a golf swing, tennis serve, baseball pitch, basketball free throw, etc. Allows a person to think about what they're going to do. All eyes are on them at that moment and they know it, etc. With a pass in football through, it seems like a movement that simply takes place after much more dynamic play--rolling out, dropping back, going through progressions, scrambling, etc.

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