coaches say you can't, so don't sign a loi
OT: Wings key players reveal injuries during Chicago series
Two pulled hamstrings and he was the best damn goalie you could ask for. I hope he's here for life.
At this point in the year, who isn't banged up
Rumor is that Toews has a significant leg injury and Seabrook's foot is broke for the Hawks. This is off sports radio in Chicago. The official news has had Sharpe with an upper body injury and Roszival with the same. and Dave Bolland missed almost the enitre first round and was limited against Detroit due to a groin. Happens to all Teams. Hawks were better.
I don't think anybody is trying to say these injuries caused the Wings to lose; it's just a tradition of sorts to see what horrible injuries these guys were playing with
Valid statement except you should remember the wings had little depth making any limitations to their main players more significant.
Every team is beat to hell at this point. Hockey players are a different breed.
The Cup is the most difficult thing to win of all the major sports. The rules are changed from the regular season, and it becomes a war of attrition.
I am not the least bit sad about this season. The rebuilding Red Wings took the #1 seeded Blackhawks to OT in game 7. This team is being built in Babcock's image, and is set up to be a lot better playoff team than regular season team. They could contend for another cup as soon as next year, even after a near-complete retooling of the team.
Because you said so? There is no way to prove your statement that the Cup is the hardest to win, and it could actually be argued that other championships in other sports are harder to aquire.
Every player on every team is probably playing with some sort of injury this time of year. Proud of our fellas...a good run! A team to build on!
All teams do it, but the last team is the one holding the Cup. That said, great job by a team to make it as far as they did despite their GM's inability to significantly improve the roster the last couple of years.
I'm not sure that I would use the word "inability", especially this year.
Lucked into Jim Nill being a family friend to Danny DeKeyser? We traded a first round pick for Kyle Quincey. Our big FA signings the previous offseason were Mikael Samuelsson, Jordin Tootoo and Carlo Colaiacavo. The first two sat most of the playoffs, and Colaiacavo was a third line D-man, getting some of the least minutes on the bench.
Holland made the decision to keep Johan Franzen over Marian Hossa, gave away a first round pick to reacquire Kyle Quincey, and didn't trade soon-to-be-UFA Valtteri Filppula for a first rounder as he swears he had that offer available this season. I just don't see what Holland's done since the salary cap took place that makes him darn near untouchable around Detroit.
What did Holland do that was so detrimental? We're as steady as an organization can get and the future is looking up. We're in good shape cap wise and can make a big splash w/in the next couple offseasons. I'd say he's done a damn fine job considering we haven't drafted in the first half of draft in a long time, most years picking in the mid to late 20s. I would have liked to try and trade for a Bobby Ryan or someone equivelant but who is to say he didn't try?
that was so instrumental to a long postseason run? I don't see the FA signings or deadline deals that were a regular occurence in the late 90's to early-mid 00's. I just don't see the job he's done to improve the roster, outside of bringing up guys from Grand Rapids.
I think you are forgetting the changes in the NHL since the late 90's early 00's. The salary cap era prevents you from paying 6+ mil for a guy at the deadline like they did previously.
I think you also are forgetting they tried to spend $198 million on Suter and Parise. It wasn't like the deal they got in Minnesota was any better than what the Wings were rumored to offer, just so happens Zach Parise wanted to play back home.
also made a great offer to Weber last summer as a replacement for Lidstrom, and he chose to go play in Minnesota.
Think you mean Suter.
But you don't compound matter by signing a fourth line winger in Jordin Tootoo for 3 years/$1.9 mil and a borderline at best 2nd line defenseman in Kyle Quincey at almost $4 for two years. I'd rather use the kids in Grand Rapids instead and save that money.
I don't follow your logic... Post just above you stat "all he does is bring up guys from Grand Rapids" as if it's not doing enough. Now you are saying you'd rather he just call up guys from Grand Rapids than sign what were known NHL players.
instead of spending money on Tootoo and Colaiacovo. Those two were known players, but not known for a whole lot.
I can sort of forgive him for not taking Marian Hossa, as he still would have had to dump somebody other than Franzen to make room for him. Plus, at the time that Marian Hossa became a UFA, Franzen had just scored 25 goals in a span of 39 games, including 8 game winners. Hossa had just gone the entire 7 game series against Pittsburgh without a goal.
This last seasons' puzzling blunders are really bad though. Jordin Tootoo? Kyle Quincey? Seriously?
I don't know if I'd consider Tootoo a blunder. I don't rate him that high, but it's not like we gave him a long term contract for a ton of money. Overpaid for Quincey, but our blue line was/is also incredibly thin.
I guess it's the lack of other guys that makes those guys blunders. After years of trading away draft picks and picking low, your only path to prosperity in the near future is getting a couple of free agents. This means that you can't be sitting on $8 MM or so of cap space, which is what Holland is doing.
He's sitting on it b/c we couldn't get any of the big names last offseason. Not his fault Parise is from Minnesota and Suter wanted to tag along. We're in good financial shape to make a play at a couple good ones this offseason. I don't think there are a ton of big names this offseason, but could be the following. He signed Brunner last offseason and that was big. I would have preferred just a 2 year deal for Tootoo, b/c I think the younger guys will displace him by next season but it's not the worst thing in the world that we have him. If we can stay a little more healthy next year, I think we'll be a good team with a chance to challenge for the Cup.
He can walk if he chooses. Good job on signing him, bad job on not at least a 2 year deal for him.
So it's a mistake not giving long-term deals to complete unknowns but also a mistake giving 2-year deals to established players?
It was just a bad signing. I don't see how anyone could justify it last summer, and I don't see it now. Tootoo did nothing in Nashville to say he should get a pay raise to be a square peg in our round hole of a puck possession team. I'm hoping Holland uses one of the two amnesty clauses in the new CBA to dump him and that contract.
I was partially joking about Brunner not getting a longer deal, since I see the low risk in a one-year deal. But I'm curious as to why Holland did not or could not sign him to an extension during the season. Brunner did enough in the postseason to get some serious looks on the open market.
I lean towards your feelings on not signing Brunner to an extension during the season but I think the thought process with Brunner is the same as with Fil: Great player, but let's see what our options are. It may be that (just throwing out names for example) Tomas Tatar and Jan Mursak are NHL ready NOW and can give you the equivalent (or near so) to Fil and Brunners production. If Fil and Brunner want a combined 10MM a piece and Jan Mursak and Tatar are going to cost you 2M combined....
I think if Brunner and his agent come to the table and say: we want 6 years and 5 mil per - he's gone because that's just not justified at this point. Same with Fil. If he wants anywhere north of 4MM a year, let him walk.
You're forgetting that Brunner only wanted a short term deal unless we were willing to give him top dollar right away. And obviously, nobody in the league was going to do that. So we had to go with the short term deal. He is gonna want to get paid this offseason after a solid "rookie" season. His prerogative and I don't think you can blame Holland on that at all.
Wings gave him 1.9 mil per year for three years, which is actually a raise of about $650k per year over what he was getting in Nashville. This for a guy who never scored more than 30 points in a season. Also, Kyle Quincey has never been as valuable as a first round draft pick. Holland overvalued Quincey when he made that deal.
No shit. And not only did he give up way too much, but he also got a guy who is overpaid. $3.75 MM is what Brad Stuart was making back when Quincey was released because he couldn't beat Bret Lebda for a spot on the roster.
I agree with some of your criticism but you don't seem to mention Damien Brunner and that was a golden find. Also, whether or not it was pure luck or part of the plan, the lack of signings forced the Wings to play the kids and that maturation gives DET more promise going forward.
I feel like all teams are beat up at this point in the season, but you'll never hear these guys complain about it. Hockey players are the toughest guys you'll ever meet. As a 'Hawks fan I would've never known anything was wrong with Jimmy Howard because he was absolutely incredible in this series.
We were beat up all season as well. We had the most missed games from players by a wide margin IIRC. Really could have used Bert or Filpulla in that Game 7. But so it goes.
Filpp's injury may have actually been a good thing in that game. While detrimental long term, the shortening of the bench gave Z, Pavel, and Nyquist more ice time.
Also, can't help but think what a healthy Helm would have meant to this team. His speed was sorely missed all season, but especially in game 7.
Of all the things to sideline a player, a finger is excessively frustrating for some reason.
that he was hopeful to be back, possibly in the conference finals. I don't know if that helps or hurts the frustration, but maybe it's an indication that he's a fast healer.
I'm assuming he'd be a stretch for the finals, but who knows, especially with the way pro athletes can come back these days.
The frustration isn't on Dekeyser, just thinking that something so small can sideline someone so big (I'm aware than an ACL or MCL is tiny too) sucks.
I saw a story this morning that he likely would've been cleared to play in Game 3 of the next series, had the Chi/Det series ended in Detroit's favor in Game 7.
Regarding the signings this past offseason,
- Brunner: Good pick-up. Likes it in Detroit and he'll almost certainly be re-signed
- Colaiacovo: After striking out with Suter, they had to get SOMEONE
- Tootoo: Added what was missing from the previous playoffs (grit/agitation). No clue why he sat in the stands for pretty much the entire playoffs
- Samuelsson: Makes no sense to me. Even if he hadn't been injured, he wouldn't add anything for the team that Hudler couldn't do
- Filppula: Love the kid. His skill is on par with Zetterberg, but his problem is his mentality. He seems too comfortable letting Z and Pav be the stars of the team, when he truly has the skill/potential to join them. If he's still wanting $5 mil a year, forget about it. He should get no more than $3.5 until he produces the way he has the ability to.
- Brunner: Re-sign him.
- Cleary: Nothing but heart. But doesn't seem to make a big difference until playoff time. Wouldn't be mad if they sign him, wouldn't be mad if he's gone.
- Miller: Meh
- White: He gone
I hope they re-sign Miller. He was really big with a goal and lots of good PK time after spending weeks out for injury.
Only disagree with you about Miller, he's a great 4th liner/penalty killer. As a Michigander, he should be pretty easy to resign.
Assuming Helm, Samuelsson and Bertuzzi are back in full force next year, it seems like they'll have to make a trade or two because they'll have tons of forwards. There's no way they'll send Nyquist and Andersson down to GR for the whole year after the instrumental roles they played this season. My hope is they don't resign Filpula, and find a way to trade some combo of Bertuzzi, Samuelsson, and Emmerton for a scorer. I don't necessarily have a problem with Emmerton, but to me he seems like the definition of "just a guy" out there, never doing anything particularly good or bad.
if all three of those guys are healthy I think that Sammy and tootoo get bought out, and we see some combination of trades. Nyquist, Andersson, Tatar and Mursak all have spots on the roster next year, I would think. (caveat being: huge trade offer for any of the above changes things)
Mursak signed a 2 year deal with a Russian team a few weeks ago (http://www.mlive.com/griffins/index.ssf/2013/05/jan_mursak_to_end_stay_with_de.html) which I thought was kind of a bummer because I loved his speed.
Other than that, here's how I hope their lines look next season (although this almost certainly won't happen):
Tatar/Free Agent scorer-Datsyuk-Filppula
I know a lot of people think Abby should stay on one of the top 2 lines and that Andersson should have a bigger role, but this is what I think.
Find a way to get rid of Franzen (unlikely with that contract), Sammy, and Bert.
the criticism of Holland in this thread is insanity.
Look around the NHL and look at all the teams that are Elite. All of them have had MULTIPLE YEARS of futility because of cap hell or waiting for their kids to develop. Ken Holland has kept this team competent and at least treading water WHILE developing the next crop. In an ideal world no, you don't sign Carlo or Sammy or Tootoo but right now those were their options. they're in between talent waves and we're making due until the next wave is in their prime and NHL ready. Lots of teams try to fill holes with FAs and trades...that doesn't work. The NHL model is approaching the NFL model: draft and develop your talent or wallow in the depths of the standings. The Wings are AWESOME at those two...Free Agents and trades are nice additions but if you're looking to secure your future through that avenue, you're failing.
In the next few years we're going to see (hopefully) the core of Z/Pasha/Nick/big E/Howie joined by Frk, Ferraro, Tatar, Mursak, etc. Right now we've got a year or two (including this one) of biding time until those guys are ready. Taking the #1 seed in the playoffs to the brinks and losing because of a deflected OT winner is hardly anything to be upset about.
Flash back to two years ago: the Wings were the old, slow, but experienced and savvy team in the playoffs that teams could out speed and out muscle. Now they're the fast, young, inexperienced but difficult team to play against. They did this on the fly without missing a beat. No one in this game has done that. Listen to NHL Network Radio or CBC or anyone who understands hockey and is plugged into the league. Holland has created the model that other teams are trying to follow. He drafts better, he manages the cap better and he's got coaches and scouts in place to develop better than anyone else. Ken Holland is a fucking wizard and if you can't see that then I'm sorry, I have nothing else I can say to you.
You hit the nail on the head. Look at the two best teams in the nhl right now, the Hawks and Pens. They both SUCKED from about 2002 to 2006. In fact, in the two seasons surrounding the lockout season, Pittsburgh finished in last place in the East both seasons while the Hawks were last in the West in 04 and 14th in 06. The Hawks didn't make the playoffs between 2003 and 2008. Who did these teams use their high draft picks on during these years of futility? Penguins: Marc-Andre Fleury (2003 1st overall) Evgeni Malkin (2004 2nd) Sidney Crosby (2005 1st) and Jordan Staal (2006 2nd). Hawks: Brent Seabrook (2003 14th), Jonathan Toews (2006 3rd) and Pat Kane (2007 1st), with David Bolland and Duncan Keith as 2nd round picks. Not a bad list of players. And if you look up and down the rosters of these teams, most of their players (stars or role guys) came out of the draft.
The lesson here is that in today's salary cap drafting and developing players is the most important aspect of your program. It's well documented how good the Wings are at this, with Z, Datsyuk, Franzen, and Ericsson all being very low picks. Gone are the days when the Wings could sign Luc Robitaille to the 4th line. In fact, I believe the Wings payroll in that 2002 season was around $65 million, which is more than the salary cap will be 11 YEARS later.
Going out and pulling in the big free agents or trades isn't a guarantee for success, just ask the Rangers, Wild, or Flyers (yes I know they made the Finals in 2011, but they've been madly inconsistent and their goaltender situation is a disaster). Doing this often mortages the future, and we've seen the last month or so, the Wings have some pieces coming in that make the future pretty bright.