Hmmmm.....the story seems vaguely familiar to me.
OT - Why Bill O'Brien left PSU
The difference is O'Brien did a good job and left because a NFL team offered, rather than getting canned.
8-4 (6-2) and 7-5 (4-4)
3-9 (2-6), 5-7 (1-5), and 6-6 (3-5)
Yep. O'Brien took over a program that was decimated and salvaged a lot. RichRod actually did the damage.
The similarity is that if RR had done well here, he also would have had reasons to move on when another opportunity came.
...is that the parallel between the situations BOB and RR stepped into escapes me. I don't recall Carr being accused of covering up for a felon on his staff.
Infintiely worse situation, better results.
It was about the culture at Penn State. The fact that O'Brien's complaints sound so similar to those of another school detailed by some guy named John Bacon is just what might make it relevant here. It wasn't about anyone's record.
However, if Rich Rod would've won to the extent that O'Brien won when you consider the teams and the circumstances. He'd be the head coach at Michigan.
Rich Rod was FIRED.
O'Brien LEFT on his own.
If Rich Rod goes 5-7, 7-5, 9-3...he would've kept his job at least one more year. Likely at least 2 more years.
If Rich Rod won a B1G Championship, beat MSU and OSU and went to a Rose Bowl he'd certainly still be here.
Look at all the recent fuss about Hoke, who's a "Michigan Man" and one of "us." That doesn't mean shit if you don't win, beat your rivals and surpass expectations.
All Rich Rod had to do was JUST WIN and people would've shut up. At PSU, OB was doing the best with what he had and they still wouldn't give him a break and let it go. He was 2012 Coach of the Year! Rich Rod never won more than 3 B1G games in 1 season.
It's similar, but it's waaay different.
The only reason people started to get pissy about being a "Michigan Man" was because Richrod didn't win. Beilein isn't a Michigan Man. Carol Hutchins went to State! Maybe he wasn't as great at being a public figure as those two are, but if he had just won, it would've been a moot point
I get your point, but (a) their is a mountain of difference in relevance on this campus between the basketball/softball coaches and the football one, and (b) at least with basketball, that was a trainwreck for so long that people were happy with a winner, and the sport in general has always been more accepting of outsiders.
Good old Hutch man.
If they had a carol Hutchins haircut day, I would actually attend a softball game
Good points all.
I've been thinking too this morning about where we'd be right now if, back in 2011, Brandon had decided to keep Rich and gave him the money to hire Casteel as his DC. After watching Arizona yesterday I couldnt help but get a bit sentimental about what our offense could've been with a Jr & Sr Denard running it and a half-way competent defense on the other side.
Not sure Casteel would have come. He was asked in 2007 and again in 2008 and said no both times. That was when RichRod's job status was not in question. By 2011, Casteel would have been stepping into a potential lame-duck coaching situation, which couldn't have been too desireable.
I think the bigger problem was Rich Rod's insistence on the 3-3-5. Yes, that was Casteel's preferred defense, but most DCs don't like to run it. Rich Rod should have just let his DC, whomever it was, run whatever he wanted to run.
Casteel was making 350k in 2010 at WVU and we paid Mattison more.... a LOT more so we could've gotten him - especially with the entire situation at WVU being so unsettled with Snyder. And both times "we asked him" we asked him to come and take a pay cut to do so. Not very appealing to be sure.
It would've taken just a fraction of the money we gave Hoke for his assistants to get Casteel.
He stayed with Stewart at WVU. After it became quite clear that he would not be getting that opportunity with the momentary success of Holgerson he left.
I think the emphasis on the "3-3-5" being the problem is overblown. Our lack of execution....whomever you want to blame that on...would be the problem. I never agreed with blaming scheme so much as recruitment (or lack-there-of) and coaching.
I don't think scheme per se was the issue, it was forcing a DC to run a scheme he was unfamiliar with and not giving him choice of or control over his position coaches.
Casteel and RR were both still at WVU in 2007. I doubt Michigan was trying to get Casteel here that year.
What you say would have happened. Remember RR recruited no olineman or dlineman? Hence the reason why we are struggling now? What the FUCK was RR's plan, that's what I've always wondered?
interested in Michigan before RR was fired and the interest disappeared overnight.
That 2010 recruiting year stands on its own. Nobody failed to sign because he was fired, because he wasn't fired that year.
I'll use it to say that...
Pat Narduzzi, Greg Schiano and Al Golden have to be the 3 candidates for the job.
And I'll use this to say we overestimate Narduzzi's viablity as a head coaching candidate. He never gets mentioned for a job like PSU. He has to start at UConn, a MAC school, or maybe a dreg in a major conference.
....and (2) $$$$$$$$$$$$$
Or he had clear NFL aspirations from the get go.
They should build a statue of Bill to replace the old Paterno's. What he did with that program in two years is just unreal. It is a shame BIG is losing such a good coach.
By the way, there is no guarantee that he would be succesful as Texans coach. Some coaches are meant to be college coaches and Bill could be one of them.
O'Brien was going to back to the NFL sooner or later and his stock is pretty high right now. I think the people looking for a "Penn State Man" only helped make the decision easier for him
he was really open about his desire to come back to the NFL as a HC.
They have to go out and get a Penn State man after BOB left them like that.
The article mentions that the interview was off-the-record but doesn't mention any sort of expiration for that agreement. Am I missing something?
Yeah, that seemed like a real dick move.
I'm sure it was a calculated decision on the reporters part. BOB is gone, so that part doesn't really matter to a local guy. He gains some goodwill (or at the very least, clicks) from his readership. It's clearly unethical, and wrong, but I can see how he could decide to say "fuck it".
Give him a lot of credit. This played out almost exactly how it was expected, but he won games. He was supposed to be the fall guy.
I'd love to see Narduzzi take this job. BOB didn't have any head coaching experience before getting the job. Maybe they can go that route again?!
I think Narduzzi would be a great head coach. I don't want him leaving to coach anywhere in the east division unless it's here.
I know I'm the minority here but I'm glad BOB is leaving and used Penn State as a stepping stone. His departure may hurt the conference's reputation in the long run, but that school deserves to be in the basement for a decade after what happened there, so fuck 'em.
and am pretty sure we are not in the minority.
I agree that PSU, deserves to be raked over the coals for years to come. BOB should have a good deal of success in the NFL.
I feel for the guy and don't blame him for moving on. He describes the frustrations of work in general. The work is great, but the people are the problem.
About most of the jobs I've had.
I like BOB and think he is probably a pretty good coach, but I don't get why everyone acts like he is the second coming. They act like he took a rag tag crew of walk-ons and nerds and made them into a championship team. The sanctions have yet to really set in at PSU other than the bowl ban. Sure he recruited well for a year, but the worst part of the sanctions are the scholarship reductions and those have yet to really settle in. I would say the next 2-3 years are where you would have seen the real result of the sanctions that PSU was handed (They were supposed to be down to 65 scholarships for 2014). Of course the NCAA amended the sanctions so I don't think there will be much of a drop off at all anymore.
Obviously, Penn St. could have lost more games, but it seems like any competent head coach worth millions of dollars a year, could come in and have a similar record. He didn't win a MNC and was never competing for conference title. People talk about him like he was Ghandi or something. I don't get it. He had a 10-6 conference record. Brady Hoke has a similar conference record at 15-9 and people are talking about him being fired for his incompetence.
The NCAA allowed anyone to leave PSU and not sit out a year. What do you think would've been left at Michigan had that door been opened when RR was fired? I strongly think Denard would have been wearing a Nike Green Uni for starters.
Over BOB's career at PSU they have a better conference record than Michigan even with all of the turmoil. If BOB was only a decent coach, what does that make Hoke?
"What do you think would've been left at Michigan had that door been opened when RR was fired?"
Pretty much everyone. Hoke did pretty well holding on to the recruiting class that was in place (who, obviously, were free to change their minds without penalty) and there was very little noise about people considering transfers and no indication that anyone only stayed because they didn't want to sit out a year. The attrition wasn't people leaving to play FBS-level football--Christian and Vinopal were the only examples IIRC. Most of the attrition was playing-time concerns and guys with academic and/or legal issues that eventually left them out of football altogether. And injuries, of course.
"Some of his frustrations revolved around what he saw as the lack of leadership at Penn State and his desire simply to fulfill his job description as the football coach, not university figurehead."
I have no trouble believing this. It seems to me that Penn State really leaned on the leadership of a man - one disgraced and now deceased - that it probably wanted a similar looming presence from whomever came after Paterno. I could believe that the university was honestly dismayed that O'Brien actually just wanted to coach a football team and really was not interested in being "the next Joe".
You know what pisses me off the most about the quoted statement? Having this looking figurehead of a head coach is what got them in this problem in the first place. Your state college head football coach should not be the most powerful person in the state. These idiots don't learn from their mistake and do not deserve someone who's good at coaching football nonetheless someone who has the full range of qualities they're looking for.
And you see no connections between them with Joe Pa and us with Bo...?
And how many convicted pedophiles did Bo cover up for? None. People clinging to Bo do so for sentimental reasons, those clinging to Joe Pa are just in denial
I realize Bo didn't cover anything up. But the way he is put on a pedastal like he is the supreme being of Michigan athletics is exactly the same as what they do with Joe Pa. And exactly the reason they're having a hard time with his passing just like we have with Bo.
Unlike PSU fans I think we just want a coach who wins and is good at recruiting. RR would've been popular soon enough if we had the type of success BOB had at PSU in those first two years. BOB, despite his relative success, was still "not enough" for a lot of these PSU folks.
they want a Michigan Man coaching Michigan, not an outsiders. That's what BoB is referring to.
I think that the coach here has to be a politician to some degree. But we also don't really buy into the BS "we're the most specialest place in the whole universe" crap that Paterno instilled in the PSU fanbase.
I think this fanbase for sure suffers from that.
I think we do, too, relative to other fanbases. But not to degree PSU fans do. They really buy into the whole GRAND EXPERIMENT shit... at least our fanbase can admit that college football is a racket, that a lot of our players would never even sniff a college campus if they didn't play football and that, hey, maybe some of our previous head coaches weren't poet-kings who ruled with an Arthurian sense of chivalry and honor
You're not serious about that comment are you? Every coaching prospect that's been mentioned as been a "Michigan Man", Miles, Harbaugh, etc.
Yes, Bo was a figurehead. Lloyd Carr didn't want to be one, but he still managed. The difference is that O'Brien knows the grass is greener in the NFL, that you can be Bill Belichick and nobody cares as long as you win.
Bo also knew when to step aside. Paterno became so enamoured with his own legacy and setting an all time win record that he refused to step down and then was propped up by a whole system of enablers who knew he wasn't really coaching but were either afraid to say anything or so wanted to enhance their coach's reputation that they went along with the charade.
The Paterno yardstick against which all coaches will be measured remains, along with their board of trustees, with many of the members being Paterno loyalists.
Not totally dissimilar to what RichRod faced.
If I were a coach, I think I would rather be somewhere else.
Was successful on the field. I don't think rr would have faced the same intensity had he not posted a three win season and the worst d in the history of our program.
Btw. Can we stop comparing rr to every situation? He is rip.
I agree with you, but my perception is that RichRod was branded as an outsider from the beginning, not that other "outsiders" haven't known success at Michigan. His actions were viewed in minute detail and was the object of a Freep witchhunt. Had he won, he would have been appreciated but I have my doubts that he ever would have had the level of acceptance that a true Michigan Man would have received.
I'm happy for him and hope he flourishes in the NFL.
Those Paterno Backers can go excuse themselves listen to Nickelback in a padded room. JoePa and that university were supremely gutless and let Sandusky do whatever he wanted for way too long, ruining waaaay too many innocent lives.
After reading that article I still believe they deserve to be a doormat. Go BOB.
...I am madder than BOB was in that article right now. And if he wants to hear some venting, be ready b/c I'm dialing his cell right now.
Not that they would admit it, but I genuinely believe deep down, very few PSU players, especially those who committed to Bill, expected him to be there for four years
but not all 4-5 years in their career considering BoB was open about his aspirations to the NFL.
Sheesh. The author of that article displays bad grammar. Just really awful.
Mike McQueary for head coach at Penn State. You heard it here first folks. Afterall, he is a Penn State man.
You mean the guy who rather than do what is legally required of all state employees and report the abuse to the police he just passed the buck on to the next guy? Yeah, he's a piece of work and doesn't deserve to have any job associated with kids - maybe give him a job as a police officer at Fort Leavenworth or something.
Al Golden should be the perfect fit for them if they are looking for a "Penn State" man.
I agree Al would be a perfect fit for them, but I'm not exactly thinking Golden.
Now, I don't entirely mind them trying to advocate for a more nuanced view of Joe's role in the Sandusky thing (if that's what they believe in) ........
But as for events on the football field, Joe is no longer coach and he never again will be. It's time to stop looking backwards.
i think he left because he basically doesn't want to be a college coach, which has a PR and political side, as well as all of the damn recruiting. he sounds like a cry baby to me. Good thing that doing a mediocre job at PSU for a few years gets him set up at Houston, where he, like most other Belichick offspring, will fail.
Interesting comment, when do you think you will be coming to the B1G at PSU?