The methodology on this is really poor. I wouldn't use them as even a partial basis for a decision.
is there such a thing as an etsy genuis? if so, this is it.
The methodology on this is really poor. I wouldn't use them as even a partial basis for a decision.
I dislike studies that say the degree is worth a lot, when they make no effort to separate out the quality of students entering that school. The marginal benefit from going to MIT instead of Michigan may be close to zero for a lot of students, while the extra cost for a Michigan resident is enormous (at least $80,000 + travel costs, etc). For that matter, I rather suspect that being near the top of your class at MSU with extracurriculars, etc, is enough to get you the job you want with enough initiative.
About the actual post: the value of college degrees will vary tremendously based on what major your son picks. A hard science degree is probably worth considerably more than an American History degree, for instance. I wouldn't be too discouraged about degrees in general; at worst, you could try to have your son go to a lower level college with a scholarship for a standard undergraduate degree and pay less for college.
A simple BA might not even be enough when your son enters college. Heck, I graduated U of M in '06 and I feel like I need to get my MBA to get a leg up on my peers. To better answer your question, when I stated my ultimate goal in high school (go to U of M) they did some research and devised a list of scholarships I should work towards and they offered to match whichever dollar amount I was able to get. My loans were minimal and 4 years later I am close to paying them off.
The cost of college is out of control. I am glad I don't have kids because I don't want to imagine what the cost of college will be in 18 years. People can throw out numbers and statistics to try and make their point. However, most higher paying jobs require a college degree. It is just how things are. I am going to graduate from the University of Phoenix soon with a master's degree in accounting. I have an undergrad degree in business and taking online classes was really the only option for me because I needed to keep working full time. I have a feeling I might be screwed because I doubt a degree from the University of Phoenix carries much weight. I will either be able to find a good job or probably develop a serious drinking problem. So I have that going for me, which is nice.
While useful, and will certainly get you *some* looks from recruiters and HR folks that otherwise would pass you over, is nowhere near as important as networking. It's also worth a little more in your starting salary when you're younger, once you pass 10 years experience in any field salaries are fairly level.
As someone else mentioned and I will tag on to, there is nothing more critical to finding a job than who you know and who you can get references from. Your friends, your family, previous employers, ministers of faith....one of those folks usually knows someone who is hiring, or knows someone who works somewhere that is hiring. Get to know those people (If you dont know your family then you have other issues...but yeah). I happen to be a hopeless nerd and love computer gaming. My last 3 jobs (over 20 years) have all been acquired through friends I've met online gaming, and "just happpened" to know someone who needed an IT engineer.
As for references, if it comes down to you and some other guy for a job, references can be the x factor and having some middle manager say you were an awesome guy isn't going to cut it. Get yourself out there, meet the CEO, CFO, or board members if at all possible. Interact with them as much as possible for legitimate reasons, it *will* pay off. You can beat out people who have ridiculously good qualifications (the guy I beat out for my current job had a degree from MIT) when the CEO of your old company calls a board member of the company you're trying to gain employment with and reccomends you.
The value of a college degree:
#1 Pride in having earned one.
#2 More likely to have better benefits than without one. Insurance (health, life, eye and dental), retirement plans, vacation time, etc...
#3 More likely to out earn people without one even if it is a mere $400,000 instead of $1,200,000 as the article suggests.
The federal government seems to believe that if you have a Bachelor's degree you earn $51,206 on average a year and just $27,915 for a high school diploma. You can certainly succeed and be highly successful without a college degree, but the odds are a Bachelor's degree is going to help more than hurt you.
of Valparaiso University and had to sub all of spring semester but the high school I worked at made sure I was actually teaching the material instead of just baby sitting. He wrote me a helluva a letter of recccommendation and all it did was get me a job near South Bend at a middle of nowhere school where I'm making low 30s. College was expensive as hell but I'm plenty grateful to have a job the way things are no matter what my income or place of living.
I teach at a private college in the NE. Our tuition is insane. One thing this has done is motivated me as a mentor.
When I've had students and parents ask me about costs, I tell them about former students of mine who now work at a number of government agencies. I then tell them how many letters of recommendation I wrote for students for jobs and internships last year and then mention where some of my current students are interning.
In making clear what I do outside of the classroom for my students, I underscore one lesson for them: not all colleges are equal.
I find it striking how rarely learning itself has been mentioned here. A lazy dumbass with a college degree is still a lazy dumbass. But a smart, industrious person with a college degree is someone who actually learned something while in college.
Liberal arts curricula teach you to write, to express yourself and, in a nutshell, to make an argument. Learning to do this is useful, whether in a corporate/institutional environment or in other professions. In the sciences, having a solid foundation matters even more in terms of future success.
I think most people would agree with this sentiment as well...but studying something you have at least a bit of interest in (or love if you go that far) is pretty important. While those things may not always end with the most safe return on investment, the quality of your life and work are pretty important too.
To that end, and this may not end up being important until your son is 16 or 17, find a school and course of study that will allow him to grow academically in a subject area he likes. I chose U of M because I was unsure of my exact course of study, but knew there were a ton of programs in the top 5 in the country.
The real value of an undergraduate experience comes from the fact that--for he who takes his experience seriously, at least--it necessitates severe personal development in an enriched environment. As a future medical scientist, I care much less of my Michigan education's contribution to my eventual salary and much more of its influence on the development of my skills of creativity and analysis. Those things will take me much further than will a high ROI without them (treat that as a thought experiment because, yes, I understand the two are inextricably linked).
Michigan put me in a research laboratory, and I developed, as an undergrad, into the first human being to ever successfully purify a specific voltage-gated potassium channel and I was honored with a publication. Michigan put me in sustainable development operations in the Dominican Republic, and I developed into a undergrad dude--in my "revolutionary" phase--that could devise spanish literacy programs, and develop new water purification technologies, the likes of which rural Dominicans now have the educational and financial capital to forever build on their own. Michigan put me in a dorm with a future physicist, linguist, and philosopher, and for that I am forever developing into a dabbler of Schrodinger's, Emerson's, and Kant's work. That is the Michigan Difference.
I'm a teacher and I approve of this message. If I can lead other people to greatness, get satisfaction from my job, and make enough money to support my family, then why do I need to be rich? Besides, smart investments can make people in any field rich.
A degree's worth is based primarily on supply and demand for the skills indicated by the degree, with a large factor of where you went and who you know.
Lawyers, for example, are in high supply and low demand right now, but a Harvard lawyer is probably still doing better than a Cooley Law graduate.
From a pure financial basis, think of it as a bell curve with a x-axis of starting salary. Supply and demand for the skills conferred by the degree determine where the curve sits. From there, think of that curve breaking down into a curve for each school that confers said degree. A Harvard curve is going to be more to the right than a San Diego State curve. GPA, internships, performance, industry chosen, etc then place you on your respective curve. From there, who you know can move you wherever is happens to be. For example, your dad is a CEO of Company X and gets you a plum job.
If I had to list importance of financial factors in descending order:
1. What the degree is
2. Where the degree is from
3. Chosen industry to work in
4. GPA, internships, activities - Comparative ranking factors
Wildcard: Who you know.
I work with tons of people with ba's in lit, liberal arts and other useless degree's and they are now in customer service jobs making 20grand a yr looking for jobs.
The value of an engineering, technology, medical and business degree is far more then those of useless degree's in a tight job market. These degree's also allow you to cross over fields as well where as a liberal arts major, history major has less oppertunities crossing fields with their major.
Businessweek, they bring up bigtime points in return on investment. But the biggest point they showed is stay in state to go to school unless it means going to an elite university and your other options means going oos for a comperable education anyway.....
Biggest change, 10yrs ago companies were recruiting and using internships to lure top students. Now internships is your job interview not your job offer. Now you better come to perform.
Ya know, my useless degree did teach me how to use apostrophes correctly.
I feel so subversive being another "useless degree" holder.
Booyakasha me Julie. You aren't lying about that. Ann Arbor has it goin' on.
Go Blue, etcetera!
Am I the only one who thinks financial return is not the only important part of a job? Lets break down a typical day.
6-8 Hrs of sleep
9-10 Hrs of work
1-2 Hrs Eat/hygiene total
1-2 Hours doing daily mundane things (walk the dog, do dishes, do laundry, do your wife, etc)
5-6 billion hours doing stuff with the kids if you have them
That doesn't really leave much me time, so make sure you kid gets a job doing something he loves. If you hate what you spend half of your conscious life doing, then you'll hate your conscious life. College often opens a lot more opportunities when it comes to management or specific skills, which often require degrees. Still, nobody has to go to college to make good money. Trade schools are an option which is oft scoffed at and can provide more income potential than your average liberal arts degree. If the kid wants to work with his hands, don't waste time with a college degree, but if he/she wants to work with his/her mind, college will probably be the way to go. There is no such thing as a "useless degree" as long as people are driven and apply themselves. (Well there are probably a couple useless degrees out there.)
I have my accounting degree from Ferris. It has served me very well. When I went in to take the CPA exam I was ready to go toe to toe with anyone in that hall. I'm in a small public accounting firm, and my boss is a former IRS agent whose wife works for a Big 4. From what I've heard from both of them, there's no way on God's green earth that I'd go near a Big 4.
To me it all depends on what your degree is in. If it's a degree that you can use in a practical purpose on a day to day basis, you've done well to set yourself up over the long run. Much more often than not, that's a helluva lot better than not having one. I see a lot of my extended family that had no interest in education after high school, and quite frankly, they're fucked. The jobs that were available 25 years ago without an education or a trained skill are now few and far between, at least if you want to make any kind of money to support a family decently. My dad, who worked at the Ford plant in Saline, saw this coming in the early 80's and expressed as much in no uncertain terms.
I don't think that trying to sue an ex vice president is a great way to make money, but to each his own.
Aparrently not having a degree can get you a 6 year $110 million dollar contract/