OT - What should the Red Wings do next?
NHL.com has a list of the Top 25 remaining free agents, and it got me thinking, do the wings persure any of these guys?
What are your thoughts? Should the Wings be done for the offseason, sign another Free Agent or two, or are you calling for a blockbuster trade (i.e. Boston trading Seguin to Dallas)?
http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=677016&navid=nhl:topheads
My thoughts...
1. I would like to get Brunner back on the team. I think he got his whits back about him late in the season last year, and will push to be a top 6 forward on this team.
2. Brad Boyes is a name that jumps out at me. I love his playing style, and he put up 35 points last year on a line with Tavares. I think he could help the wings on the top two lines in scoring and in the physical dept as well. Personally, any Ex-Blues player is welcome on my team. Those "Pesky Blues" have been a thorn in the Wings side for years. I like the type of players that team puts on the ice, and how those guys play the game. Boyes is no exception.
3.Other names that intrigue me are Nik Antropov and Simon Gagne. They are older and coming off injuries, but if they were to have a healthy season, either one could contribute to make this team better.
4. Whatever they do, please do not bring back Cleary!
5. If we don't sign anyone, we need to get young in a hurry. Bring up some kids before they are ready if need be. From what I hear, the likes of Farraro, Jurco, & Riley "the Drunken Teletubby" Sheahan are a year, to a year and a half away. I think bringing a kid up early could speed up the process. Spell them with the likes of Eaves and Miller, and get them some experience in the League.
6. I don't think we should go defense. That is all.
7. PIPEDREAM!!!! Trade everything for Stamkos!! And while we are at it, trade Ken Holland for Yzerman too. That would be a great way to spice up this new-divisional rivalry with Tampa.
Obligatory Hockey Meme
At least we aren't going to have this happen too often anymore...
#bieberhateskids
True but he's pointing to the picture of him in the hawks locker room with said cup on the internets now. If i knew how any of that worked I'd post the picture for you.
A 1-year deal with Gagne seems better to me than a 3 year, $3 million per for Cleary (which is what I was hearing the deal would be).
Too me, Cleary is a very poor mans version of Tomas Holmstrom. I think Gagne still has a enough skill in which he can generate more scoring opportunities than Cleary would be able to on his own.
I agree with not throwing a bunch of money at Cleary. However, I don't think Gagne is the answer at all. Even for one year, he isn't reliable. You can't count on him to be healthy for even 60+ games. You'd be better off rolling with one of the younger guys from GR (which was a completely separate option).
Completely agree. The more I think about it I really believe Detroit needs to bring up those young kids and stick with them. Unless they can grab Morrow, Brunner or Grabovski on the cheap, then I'd like for them to stay where they are now and create a Griffins line.
1st Line
2nd Line
Grand Rapids Griffins Line (Tatar, Nyquist, Anderrson, Mursak, Jurco, Glendening, etc.) - rotate them in and out until you find what sticks.
Checking Line
With being limited to carrying 14 forwards, along with Nyquist and Tatar being out of options (not sure on Andersson) the Wings are pretty locked into what the roster will be.
Abdelkader- Datsyuk- Zetterberg
Alfredsson- Weiss- Franzen
Nyquist- Helm- Tatar
Then the checking line would be some mash of Andersson, Bertuzzi, Tootoo, and Samuelsson (if can't part with him due to injury). This is not signing any additional free agents. The only way I see more Griffins coming up next season is if Holand can swing a trade involving multiple forwards for a top defenseman.
Trade Smith and Emerton and a pick to Vancouver for Edler. Release Samuelsson by any means possible. Trade Tootoo for a pick. Bring up Tatar. Wait five games into the season and LTIR Bertuzzi.
I agree with everything except trading Smith. Fast, skilled, offensively minded defensemen don't come around very often. He is going to be a great fit next to either Kindl or DeKeyser for the next 10+ years.
I think he'll be fine as well. Ericsson used to be the pariah of the defense in the playoffs and he was fine this playoffs.
I heard he has a lingering injury right now, and you cannot cut a player while he is injured. I am really hoping that is the only reason he hasn't already been let go.
/getsonkneesandprays
He can't be cut while he is on the injured list. Once he gets healthy, I believe we can do whatever we want with him.
I need moar threads on what nasty, pretentious, crappy craft beer someone likes. Maybe a thread or two about seeing a 5th string walk on from the '93 team at a WalMart in Ypsi. Maybe another Hernandez thread spewing out rehashed info and opinions on Meyer's culpability.
I got some whargarbl last year (not from this board) for suggesting we pick up JMFJ in free agency and pay whatever because defense would be a big glaring sore spot with the departure of Lidstrom.
Ericsson and Smith didn't step up nearly enough when put in the spotlight. Colaiacovo was surprisingly useful when not breaking himself, although he's gone as well. DeKeyser was pretty excellent when we finally brought him up. We need to invest in a young defenseman.
DeKeyeser - 23
Kindl - 26
Lashoff - 22
Smith - 24
We also have a couple of big time D-men prospects in GR. So a young defensemen is not entirely something we need to focus on. We have a very very strong Top 4 all under 26 (once we lock up Smith, of course).
Invest in a young defenseman who can carry the defense and make stuff happen in the offensive zone as well. I'm not a big Lashoff fan and Smith got exposed big time in the playoffs. I think Kindl and Dekeyeser are both solid, and Kindl does have a rocket of a shot, but I think you're overestimating the talent in those four. I'd love to be proven wrong.
I think everyone is being way way way too hard on Smith. Losing DeKeyser really hurt us in the playoffs. Smith wasn't perfect, but he was trying dam hard against the like of Kane, Bickell, and Toews. He was over his head, yes, but he still had his moments where he shined in that series. I'd put more of the blame on the slow forwards that couldn't help a lick in our own end, which would result in a Smith vs 2 Hawks situation.
Smith will be part of the future of the Wings D. Him and Kindl are the offensive D-men, and Lashoff and DeKeyser are the defensive defensemen of the group.
The real knock on Smith is his speed, or the lack thereof. He just can't keep up at all with guys like Kane or Toews even over short distances. He's a solid puck handler and fairly physical. I suppose we can cover for Smith's slow-footedness with a quicker center or winger.
I think the Wings waited waaaaaaay too long to bring up DeKeyser.
Didn't they bring him up basically right after they signed him?
I was under the impression DeKeyser was sitting in Grand Rapids most of the season, and then Google just told me "No, stupid."
He was playing at Western Michigan for most of the season. He didn't play one game for the Griffins in the regular season.
The wings never "brought up" DeKeyser. They signed him straight out of WMU with about 10 games to go and got him into the lineup ASAP.. in under a week if I remember correctly. A lot of Smith's playoff problems can be directly attributable to his D partner much of the time in Quincey. He would pass him into trouble more times than not. Tough spot to put a young Dman in, especially against a good team like Chi.
Cleary has to go, he is way too expensive for a 3-4 line checking forward. And there is no need to sign another player who would needs to be on the top 2 lines as those spots are all taken. The bigger concern for the wings would be eliminating some guys. Have to move 22, Sammi, and possibly Bert. Tatar has to come up (no options left and he would never clear waivers) and Helm looks like he may be healthy again. That gives us more than enough bodies to start the year.
Boyes is a guy that I wanted last offseason, and he sure would have look better than the guys we signed.. most of who didn't even play and all of whom we signed for more money and years. But, he may want a little too much now and unless he can be effective on a checking line (not sure as I have not seen him play lately) I just don't think he is a good fit for what we need.
If we add a D, I hope we ship out Quincey for him... that would be the old win win. If we sign a depth guy, please please be on a one year deal.
*I type so slow you already figured out the DeKeyser thing.... never mind that part.
After Samuelsson put up those three solid years before we signed him, I was hopeful he had more left in the tank, but then he just broke himself. Between that, Bertuzzi, and Tootoo riding the bench, I'm a bit leery at signing old dudes in general. I hope Alfredsson doesn't flame out right away.
Cleary is a grit guy who occassionally catches fire, but you're right that he's too expensive for his production. Add more playing time for the young guys.
The biggest thing that bugged me was Smith's attitude. He had a ton of bad games and whenever reporters asked him about it, his response was basically "it wasn't my fault", instead of "I could be playing better". That kind of attitude doesn't usually lead to improvements in performance. I think he would benefit from more time in GR but he's not likely to be sent back down.
I also have dreamed of JMFJ playing for the Wings, but he never made it to free agency, so I'm curious what you were suggesting.
And I was hoping he'd make it all the way through to free agency. That never happened, but I got the whargarbl before that was all settled. Also, fuck Columbus.
agreed.
Lots of ideas you threw out there. Discussion commence:
1. Brunner: No; will explain later
2. Boyes: No. Don't need another 30+ forward.
3. Antropov: No. Gagne: No. Don't need anymore forwards
4. Don't bring back Cleary: Completely agree; don't need any more 30+ forwards.
5. Young kids. Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, and Yes again. But, you chose the wrong young kids. We NEED to resign Smith, Nyquist, and Andersson. ASAP.
And as for the young kids in GR, this whole group of kids will be ready next year (and some are even ready right now)
Tatar, Mursak, Sheahan, Jurco, Ferraro, and Glendening. We have too many aging forwards, with no room for these kids.
6. Correct; we don't need any more help on defense.
7. That would be a very terrible trade. We don't want to lose all our young kids for Stamkos.
My final thought regarding what the Wings need to do is to make a trade to clear up some cap space and open up some forward spots.
We only have 2.3 mil to resign Smith, Nyqust, and Andersson. I think we need 6 mil to cover all three. The way we clear up the necessary space is to trade Emmerton and 1 of Tootoo/Bertz/Sammy; and in return we get some kids for GR or some draft picks. That way we clear up cap space and open up forward spots for all the talented youth we have in GR.
My Pipe Dream is getting rid of Bertz, Sammy, and Tootoo and getting a couple of 4th rd draft picks.
I think 4 guys are in the block Sammy, emerton, too too and eaves.
What I would like to see happen for lines:
Hank Pav JA
Franzen Weiss alfie
Bert helm nyquist
Miller Anderson Tatar
Discuss.
Hank - Pavs - Abs (only b/c Babs loves him here; I'd prefer Nyquist or Tatar)
Mule - Weiss - Alfie
Miller - Helm (crossing fingers) - Eaves (these 3 are great together)
Nyquist - Andersson - (one of) Tootoo/ Bertz/Sammy (whover is left on the team)
D-Pairs:
Smith - Kronwall
Ericsson - Kindl
DeKeyser - Quincey
Lashoff
Gotta split up Krons/Ericsson b/c they are just too slow. Need to mix in speed with the big bodies.
I think you have to try Z and Alfy together. Just add Sundin in there and you have a gold medal line.
I forgot we still had Quincey. Can we just light him on fire or something? Auction him off?
That second line of Franzen-Weiss-Alfie could end up being super slow even if they're good at everything else. Put DeKeyser and another not-slow defenseman on the ice with that line.
Quincey was actually solid in the playoffs, can't complain.
I'm right with you. Smith, Nyquist and Andersson are the priorities. They need to lock each one of them up for at least 3 years.
With everything being said, I do like what Detroit has done this offseason and the direction the team is heading. They want to play a fluid, high speed, puck control and transition game. The young guys they have drafted and currently play for GR fit this mold very well. Its definitely a more Euro style type of game (compared to traditional dump & chase, left wing lock systems).
Everyone is talking forward lines, but Babcock switches them around so constantly that I think most of every combo will be had this year. The PP unit is the thing to watch and I anticipate it will be deadly with Alfreddson and his right handed shot added to the fray.
I'll share this since it might facilitate discussion in this thread:
To get a picture of the financial state of the Red Wings when it comes to salaries and cap space, here is a good reference - LINK
Per this link and including recent moves, right now there are 14 forwards taking up almost $42 million in salary, 6 defensemen at a little more than $16 million and 2 goalies taking up just short of $7 million. Salary payroll stands at $66.2 million and cap payroll sits at slightly above $65, leaving the wings with $2.307 million in cap room right now and no floor space.
If you're interested in making theoretical moves to see how it would work against the cap, try the calculator here - http://www.capgeek.com/redwings/cap-calculator/. You can also buy out, acquire and recall players as well as trade. For example, if we were able to complete a compliance buyout of Samuelsson, the cap space is now about $5.3 million and you could sign Nyquist, Andersson and Smith if you so desired....or go to the open market.
In any case, it's a fun tool if you're interested in seeing what moves they might be able to realistically make.
very cool tool!
I wonder if they have something like this for the NFL. Would be cool to see what options the Lions might have now that they've cleared cap room with the restructuring of Stafford's contract.
Thanks for the share!
1. Bring Brunner back down to earth salary-wise.
2. Sign the veteran/leader/spokesman/grinder/workhorse Danny Cleary!
3. Give the young guys playing time. If that means getting rid of Samuelsson/Tootoo/Tuzz, then so be it.
Sign the 3 young RFAs: Nyquist, Anderssen and Smith
Count the remaining money and then sign some muscle... whether it's Cleary or someone else that is willing to check, sit in front of the net, and intimidate when needed. Right now that guy is Cleary, but, anyone in that mold will do. Or, bring Holstrom back!!!!!!!
Wings have the talent but lack the toughness at times. The East, with Boston as the main example, is tougher than the West. Need to address that issue at some point, or, we'll be playing uphill against size and more aggressive line-ups
you must not be familiar with San Jose, LA, Anaheim, Vancouver, St Louis or Phoenix.
Three of those have been the cream of the crop in the NHL the past half decade or (and two more haven't been half bad) so and all are huge and physical. The East has Boston and................
The Wings style fits very nicely in the East save Boston. And the Travel will help.