OT: What is the most over-rated Big Ten football program?
August 5th, 2010 at 11:42 AM ^
So Wisconsin is both over and under rated, or are they rated right where they should be?
August 5th, 2010 at 12:12 PM ^
Rushing to complete between appointments = apparent ignorance.
MGoApologies to all - but don't let that taint the question!
I believe that Wisconsin is generally over-rated, however Wisconsin's Coach Bielema says "NOT!" See link:
http://host.madison.com/sports/college/football/article_5de8b0e4-a02f-1…
I have to plus one you based on the fact you just used the word taint in a real sentance not referring to the space below my balls
August 5th, 2010 at 11:44 AM ^
From my perspective:
Over-rated:
1. MSU
2. Wisconsin
3. Penn State
Under-rated:
1. Northwestern
2. Wisconsin
3. Iowa
FAIL
August 5th, 2010 at 11:45 AM ^
It's easily Michigan State. Every single year in the summer we hear about how they're going to have a "Break out Year" and "will contend for the Big Ten Championship." But, similarly, every year during about week 5 or 6 they fall off the face of the Earth. It's part of what really bothers me about Spartan fans. They give us crap because we've had two down years in 50 and suddenly they want to make the claim as perennial powerhouse of the state? Give me a break.
August 5th, 2010 at 11:54 AM ^
This is quite true. Every year, there is nothing but unbridled optimism surrounding a perennial 6-6 team. No one gets the picture that despite their "promise" (close losses to good teams) they are a team that cannot recruit nationally, and is full of 2 and 3 star recruits, with an occasional big name sprinkled in. They have been breaking out for 10 years. They haven't won a bowl game since Dec 01(over Fresno State), haven't won a Big 10 title in 20 years and have an eye-popping .522 winning percentage since 1995.
August 5th, 2010 at 11:47 AM ^
They expect 9-3 seasons every year because they recruit two or three blue chips a decade, but the bulk of their team is typically made from Charles Stewarts (3-star, Farmington Hills, Harrison).
Greg Jones is a great player, however.
August 5th, 2010 at 11:57 AM ^
As is Cousins. I think they'll be OK this year, but I don't see them being much better than they were last year.
August 5th, 2010 at 11:47 AM ^
I would actually say Iowa is somewhat overrated. Watch any of their games last year? They caught a TON of lucky breaks.
I also feel Northwester is overrated. I mean, they don't recruit great, but recruiting isn't everything. I just feel from the times I have watched them that they sometimes win even when they seem overmatched. (Their win over Iowa last year, and their win over Michigan two years ago.) I don't know how else to explain it...
For underrated, I am gonna go with Indiana. They were really close to winning a few games last year that I thought they had no chance at. Also, their QB is coming back this year.
I would also say Wisconsin is underrated. They outplayed Ohio State last year.
Feel free to disagree!
August 5th, 2010 at 11:52 AM ^
If they seem to win a lot of games where they were deemed to be overmatched aren't they UNDER rated?
I've seen quite a few games where IMO they were outplayed, but they won anyway.
August 5th, 2010 at 11:47 AM ^
I mean I hate to say this but doesn't it have to be us, at least this decade right?
August 5th, 2010 at 11:48 AM ^
I think this a program thing, not a team thing.
August 5th, 2010 at 12:13 PM ^
I meant program, not team.
August 5th, 2010 at 11:55 AM ^
At least the last two years. Weren't we ranked after game four and before the slide hit and we went 1-7.
August 5th, 2010 at 11:47 AM ^
I'm going with an underrated program in Northwestern. This team is consistently solid and nearly (and should have) beat Auburn last year when no one gave them a chance...and even today a lot of people forgot about that.
The obvious answer for an overrated program is MSU.
August 5th, 2010 at 11:48 AM ^
I think Iowa had a really lucky year last year, other than their bowl game performance. They are a team that just doesn't impress me. MSU is a close second.
August 5th, 2010 at 11:54 AM ^
Since the end of the 2008 season, Iowa is 19-6 with an Orange Bowl victory. They beat the tar out of Penn State on the road and Georgia Tech. They put in a RS freshman at QB and almost defeated the Rose Bowl champs on their home field. In 2008, they laid the worst home defeat on the Gophers in their school history, 55-0.
Real lucky, those Hawkeyes are. At some point, repeated luck turns into just darn good. The "Iowa is lucky" meme sounds like a fanbase of butthurt fans to me.
If Michigan "lucked" its way to 11 wins this year the way Iowa did last year, neither you, me, or anyone here would put an asterisk on it. So stop doing it to Iowa's success.
August 5th, 2010 at 12:04 PM ^
Do you remember the game Iowa played against Iowa State (I think) wih the two missed field goals, and then their rather fortuitous win against MSU?
As far as PSU went, the game was played in miserable conditions and I remember as being pretty close, as was their victory over Michigan.
Luck often runs with good teams, which Iowa most certainly was, but they got more than their fair share.
August 5th, 2010 at 12:15 PM ^
Wrong. The Northern Iowa game was not just two missed field goals. They both were BLOCKED. That is down to talent, scheme and execution. That is not luck. Do you consider it luck that App. St. blocked that last Michigan FG in 2007? Hell no, they out-executed Michigan on that play and Michigan suffered the ignominy.
I just watched that PSU game last Saturday night, it replayed on the BTN. Penn State scored on the first play from scrimmage and then Iowa handed the Nittany Lions their ass for 58 minutes. Darryl Clark played like a wet noodle, the Iowa defense beat the snot out of PSU. It was every bit as impressive as any 1997 Michigan defensive performance. There was no luck involved - Ferentz and his staff completely shut down the Lions.
Enough with the luck garbage. Like CTB says below, Iowa almost got to the Rose Bowl without Ricky Stanzi or their star returning RB, and with their star OT and MLB suffering significant injuries during the middle of the season. Luck my ass.
August 5th, 2010 at 12:16 PM ^
Given your convincing points, I would put them at #2 under-rated.
August 5th, 2010 at 11:48 AM ^
I feel that Iowa is the most underrated program in the Big Ten, Kurk Ferentz is a great coach and Iowa is always competitive.
My top 3 overrated would be
1. Ohio State
2. Wisconsin
3. Penn State
Underrated
1. Iowa
2. Northwestern
3. Purdue
August 5th, 2010 at 11:59 AM ^
Not that I'll change your mind, but how can Ohio State and Penn State be overrated? They've won (or split) the last 5 league titles.
August 5th, 2010 at 12:18 PM ^
I agree with that...how can the perennial conf champ be overrated exactly??
August 5th, 2010 at 11:54 AM ^
I actually think they are underrated. I feel like preseason rankings hurt them more than help them more often than not. Also, they have a lot more undefeated seasons than they have NCs, which in my mind falls in the underrated category. Meaning they don't get the benefit of the doubt from the media and other coaches.
Edit: Also, I'm assuming you don't want us to put Michigan in either category. As I'm sure we're entirely incapible of having an objective discussion on whether or not Michigan is over/under rated.
double Edit: I'm also not sure that this is off topic, but the title was descriptive enough to overcome that.
August 5th, 2010 at 12:17 PM ^
That's why we are here!
August 5th, 2010 at 11:52 AM ^
Most overrated program in the country.
August 5th, 2010 at 11:55 AM ^
Yeah. So is USC.
Oh, neither are relevant to this conversation.
August 5th, 2010 at 11:58 AM ^
MSU overrated...I stated previously:
This is quite true. Every year, there is nothing but unbridled optimism surrounding a perennial 6-6 team. No one gets the picture that despite their "promise" (close losses to good teams) they are a team that cannot recruit nationally, and is full of 2 and 3 star recruits, with an occasional big name sprinkled in. They have been breaking out for 10 years. They haven't won a bowl game since Dec 01(over Fresno State), haven't won a Big 10 title in 20 years and have an eye-popping .522 winning percentage since 1995.
Iowa is up there but they are more likely to underachieve every year and it seems like Ferentz is a "hot" NFL commodity for seemingly no reason.
But Wisconsin is a good team. They aren't a big name and don't have any national sex appeal like UM, OSU or PSU. But they are consistent and they win games. If they could EVER land a 5* qb they would be NC contender.
August 5th, 2010 at 11:58 AM ^
Overrated:
MIchigan. Just the one outright B10 title in the last dozen years. Currently on losing streaks to their primary league rivals. Has had more bad defenses than good defense this decade. We have been overrated for a long, long, long time, folks.
Underrated:
Northwestern/Iowa/Wisco....i combine these three because I dont think they get any credit natiionally for being good football programs. Last season, there was a temporary awakening during bowl season, but I just think people downgrade the Big 10 because they cant believe a league can be good if those three programs are among your best.
I honestly dont know how Michigan isnt on anybody's overrated list. We dont have anything close to the achievements to match our alleged pedigree over the last dozen years. E-pinion
August 5th, 2010 at 12:04 PM ^
probably because no one has thought we were gonna win more than 6 or 7 games the last 3 years???
Now it sounds like you are talking about the program as a whole and the national perception. Perhaps the caliber player we have put in the NFL? Perhaps it was the constant top 25 presence before the 07 season? I challenge you to find a positive outlook on any of our past 2 seasons...and I will consider your statement with any validity.
You wanna know how Michigan is relevant? We lose and we are still news. When PSU was losing, no one cared. When Iowa, Wisconsin or any other Big 10 team loses, no one notices. Michigan, OSU, USC, Texas, ND, Florida State and more recently Florida...nationally relevant programs. Overrated should be directly tied into expectations, so if we are overrated this year, then you must think we are good for ...2 or 3 wins?
August 5th, 2010 at 12:42 PM ^
Take off the blinders, youngling
2004: Preseason ranking: 8th. End of season, 14th
2005: Preseason ranking: 4th. End of season: Unranked
2007: Preseaon ranking: 3rd. End of season: 18th, and only after a lucky, gutty bowl win. A loss to Appy State that totally stains the program.
8 wins total in 2008 and 2009
Eight times in the last 12 years, Michigan was preseason top-10. Yet, they only have 4 top-10 finishes when its all said and done. Somebody is overrating somebody on a consistent basis in the preseason polls and it aint MSU.
August 5th, 2010 at 12:46 PM ^
It could still be MSU. They could be ranked in the 30's and end up in the 80's.
August 5th, 2010 at 12:57 PM ^
Too funny. And true.
The thing is I think MSU's rep nationally is pretty much what we all know, a boneheaded team that losses games when it shouldnt and prone to late season tailspans. Sparty No! is truly known nationally.
Them being overrated is a function of the local media hyping them up and, for that, they deserve all the overrated tags they're getting in this thread. But most overrated? I'll save that for the program that until recently had national championship hopes every year, only to be out of said chase before September ends.
I think we are on the rise and perhaps underrated heading into this specific season, but it doesnt change the fact that nationally speaking, over the last dozen years, we are the most overrated program in the Big 10.
Not that it defeats your point...but that was a freep move you pulled there :)
Where's 2006?
Given the turnover margin in the Citrus bowl, I would not call that lucky. If you define a win by a lower-ranked team as being lucky, you're doing it wrong.
While I agree with your general point, you didn't have to cherrypick/exaggerate to make your argument.
I dont think that's what I am doing. The response to my original comment was that this issue needs to be tied directly to preseason expectations. So, I did. Are we that sensitive around here that pointing that out without slurping 2006 is an example of pulling a freep move or cheerypicking info? I didnt think so, and I assumed most people wold grasp that. Frankly, I could have listed more years that would prop up my argument than not, but I just kept it to within recent history. Had the 08 and 09 teams exceeded expecations or had winning records, I would have been inclined to list 06 because we'd have a more even split of under/over performing. But, given I listed three seasons, plus the last 2, that's 5 of 6 years....i didnt feel like I needeed to include the outlier during this stretch to achieve some mythical aura of balance.
As for the luck comment, if people in this thread and other threads can label any close win by NW, Iowa or whomever as lucky, then turnabout is fair play. This, I will grant, is hyperbole........but, it stings, doesnt it, when all people dfo is call your great wins lucky?
Ha so you're best argument is preseason rankings? From 6 years ago? and that makes us overrated? That's a joke. SO anyone who doesn't finish the season higher than their media chosen preseason rankings is overrated? Then everyone is overrated (or underrated for that matter) And you bring up 08 and 09? How exactly were we overrated in years that no one picked us to win anything smart guy? Don't type shit just to put something up here, it should make sense. Lol..
Ha so you're best argument is preseason rankings?
Yes, teams that are rated too highly are over-rated.
Actually I used 3 rankings, the most recent was three years ago. You said I could only evaluate this issue based on expecations. So comparing preseason rankiings to final rankings isnt the way to go then? I wonder what metric would be acceptable then?
Here's the deal.
What would you call a program that gets ranked in the top-10 two-thirds of the time, but only finishes in the top-10 one-third of the time?
I would call it consistently being overrated. Maybe they'll teach the conept next year in the 10th grade and you will be able to grasp it.
And as for 2008 and 2009, go look through espn, yahoo sports or any college football site with archived bowl projections. Hell, look up my past diaries where I point out where people are projecting us. We were a projected bowl team each of the last two summers. Did we make a bowl game? And, I believe UM was ranked in the preseason coaches poll headed into 2008. I
5 of the last 6 years, this team has pretty much the most overrated squad in the Big 10. When they were expected to compete for the natty title, they had 5-loss seasons and lost to Appy State. When they were supposed to be a little down, but still get to a bowl game, they had losing records.
Take off the blinders, please.
You were quick to point out MSU as overrated, but who exactly is overrating them? I re-read your post above about it, You dont even offer any evidence other than rhetoric from their fricking fanbase that they're being evaluated at all. I think responding to you will continue to be a waste of time.
August 6th, 2010 at 10:49 AM ^
Overrated is more than rankings. All I'm saying is that public perception is more than sportswriters and coaches rankings and the national perception of Michigan has always been pretty accurate. Excellent talent, conservative coaching, 8 or 9 wins per year MAX. Thats what people have always thought about Michigan because that's how the program ran for 37 years. No one other than select Michigan fans thought we would win every game, every year. I don't see how that is overrated, expectations of this program vs how people see them has aligned well. Take out Michigan fans because they are obviously biased. Fans of other team think Michgian has a better brand than on the field product, and that is true to an extent.
The outright Big Ten title thing isn't a fair knock on us. Most Big Ten titles are shared nowadays.
I count 6 of the last 12 titles as being shared. And 6 of the last 12 have been won outright.
Michigan won one outright--2003--and shared in three 1998, 2000 and 2004.
How many other B10 programs have 4 B10 titles in the last 12 years? I don't disagree with your overall point, but we are still in the top 3 teams in the B10 for the time frame you picked. If you want to say the entire B10 is overrated I won't argue either, but 4 B10 titles in 12 years is actually pretty good unless your name is Ohio State.
August 5th, 2010 at 12:04 PM ^
Most overrated? I'll give you a hint;
They've been ranked in the nations pre-season Top 25 almost each of the past 50 years over which period they have exactly 1/2 Mythical National Championships.
They are consistently mentioned amongst college football's most storied programs despite what seems like an endless parade of unremarkable 8-4, 9-3 seasons in which they feed off of the lower tier of their conference while struggling mightily against conference powers.
Their most notable feat in the last 10 years is being on the wrong end of the biggest upset in college football history.
When talking about most overrated Big Ten football programs one needs look no farther than Ann Arbor, MI.
August 5th, 2010 at 12:09 PM ^
Wow you're really starting off with a bang aren't you?
Not that I disagree with you, but if its so easy to rack up 8-9 win seasons, why do so few programs do it? Also, name one National Championship in college football that isn't "mythical".
August 5th, 2010 at 12:17 PM ^
Yeah, I hated like hell to burst onto the scene like that but this topic almost lethally exceeded my daily irony allowance.
Truth be told; most of college football's historical powerhouses are overrated and that is going to become more and more prevalent the farther we get from the 3-channel days in into a nearly 24/7 college football news-cycle.
I've lurked here in the past and generally enjoy the discourse but when I saw this topic I wanted to yell into the monitor "It's you!!!!"
Take it as a compliment, the Michigan brand has built up a tremendous amount of equity over the years and still, as a shell of its former self (and I'm not only speaking of the RR regime), enjoys the lofty expectations placed upon it by the media both local and national.
We have won a NC in the last 15 years and come to within a couple of plays of another MNC game.
BTW, may we know which team you support so we can aim my stinging replies at your emotional soft-spots?
Huge Minn. State fan. Our program is still trying to get back the glory years of coach Fox.
August 5th, 2010 at 12:24 PM ^
I thought about this before posing the question. I do not share your view on Michigan being over-rated, unless you view them over the last five years.
I believe that consistent 8-4 records are not all that bad. In fact, there are a TON of schools that would have loved that record.
App State - ouch! We'll have to live with that forever.
But I don't think we quite fall in at number one over-rated in the Big Ten.