3-9, 5-7, and 0-6 vs MSU/OSU happened. It was all over unless he was a blood relative of the entire fan base regardless of whether he deserved more time or not.
This is maaaaybe premature there, ESPN. Maryland #1 FWIW.
3-9, 5-7, and 0-6 vs MSU/OSU happened. It was all over unless he was a blood relative of the entire fan base regardless of whether he deserved more time or not.
a blood relative of the entire fan base
Insert WV joke here?
I am likely going to get killed for this but here goes. I find it kind of ironic that there are people making WV in-breeding jokes after we just hired a guy to be our HC and his main qualification appears to be that he is part of the Bo coaching tree. I supported RR through to the bowl game and I will support BH as well. I am just saying that those that live in glass houses should not cast stones.
Let's make another one of these threads where the best anyone will have to offer in terms of an answer will be pure speculation.
Some at TheWolverine have said that he ruffled feathers with his comments upon arrival regarding the depth chart. That is probably the best you will find in terms of an "answer" unless of course you are in fact Lloyd Carr, Mary Sue Coleman, or work at Schembechler Hall.
Not that it matters anyway. RR is no longer the coach whether a fan or not, and i for one would like to move on with my life
I don't really think it matters much anymore.
Sometimes I get introspective. No, it doesn't matter at all, you are correct.
talk about coaches who coach for Michigan.
what Drew Sharp alleges it be; a fan-boy site devoted to unquestioning rah-rah support for the team, the team, the team. That's all that Drew Sharp can say about MGoBlog. He condemns the "fans."
If Brady Hoke does well, I expect this blog to chronicle it. If Brady Hoke fails, I expect this blog to offer harsh criticism. No matter what, I expect that this blog will supply faster information, better analysis and more content than any other medium covering Michigan football.
As was the case with Rich Rodriguez. When the Free Press lost its mind with allegations against Rodriguez and the football program, Brian Cook and MGoBlog supplied the blowback. Almost, but not quite, alone. Eternal thanks to Jon Chait.A national scandal ensued, and in the end, Brian and MGoBlog were shown to have had the correct take all along.
I don't know of anyone who was quicker to publish serious doubts about Greg Robinson, than Brian Cook. Brian's doubts came on Day One. Not two years later. Something to think about.
So how often should we rehash whether RichRod's personality clashed with UofM? Every 3 months? Every 6 months?
Drew Sharp also alleges to be a journalist. Anyone with two brain cells and an outdated Webster Dictionary can see he is not.
I agree whole heartedly with the blowback theory you speak of. You could be right and I could be wrong. I also might be right. Based on what I have seen and heard from Borges he is willing and capable of having the offense revolving around Denard. He would have to be a shmuck not to. Based on the video evidence I have seen from a few of SDSU games, Denard can easily fit into his offense. They had a speedy tailback, aggressive defense with four man fronts, and a never give up mentality that we have lacked for three years.
Get a good QB coach to develop Denard's accuracy and poise and a descent DC to effectively communicate a defense without beavers as incentive, we might not be as horrible as everyone thinks.
One thing is for sure. Brady Hoke is here. You may not like the choice, but that's life. I really liked RR and thought he should have got one more year to prove himself. Brady Hoke was not even on my radar as a choice, but it is what it is.
I always thought his articles should be put under the editorial section, not news.
John U. Bacon's new book (due this fall) Third and Long: Three Years with Rich Rodriguez and the Michigan Wolverines
Great article from from two weeks ago with some inside info -
And the MGoBlog link discussing the article -
I think there was some question over whether or not he got the "Michigan attitude" which Hoke obviously does, but I don't think people would have been so hard on him if he were to win 9 games this year. Then there would have been less speculation about things like him having a personality issue, and what not. Overall it came down to him not winning enough games. Secondly the relationship between the football and basketball coach doesn't really matter that much. As for rubbing people the wrong way, Bo was no stranger to running people out of town.
As for rubbing people the wrong way, Bo was no stranger to running people out of town.
This is true. You're completely right. It wouldn't have mattered at all if he won. Just thinking, is all.
Yeah true, plus winning = more happiness on his part and he would have been able to smile more.
He was personable, friendly, passionate, and really cared for his kids.
Unfortunately, his luck and his record made him a pariah.
from people who had stories about him from personal acquaintances, he was an overbearing asshole who refused to deviate from what he wanted to do. (particularly with regards to defensive system and play calls)
I've heard control freak, but never an asshole. The two are quite different in my opinion, though these could end in the same fashion.
personality has been reported for him in the past as well as control freak and a-hole.
I'm sure most of the coaches running big time programs are frequently deceived the same way. Hoke doesn't seem to be tho.
This is one of those "a friend of a friend" things, so take it with a grain of salt. But a lady i met has 2 kids that spend a lot of time in and out of Mott's said rich rod was an ahole, while she loved Lloyd. so take it for what its worth.
I'm calling bullshit. Your friend of a friend had kids spend time in and out of Mott's, where RichRod and the players went for charity work, and came out with the impression that he was an asshole? That sounds fucking stupid. I am sure RichRod went to the children's hospital and acted like an asshole. This is just ridiculous.
about a lifelong Michigan fan who had a son and it was tragically discovered that the boy would die a few hours after birth. Rich Rodriguez met the man and decided to go to practice late so that he could spend some time with the man that only wanted to take his son to a Michigan game one day knowing that he would never be able to do that.
The guy spoke very highly of Rich. He said he was sincere, genuine, and extremely thoughtful. This may have been the only story ever written by the Michigan media that paints Rich as an actual good guy. Judging by the quotes from the Mealers, it was not the only time that Rich proved he is a good person.
I understand how people rip on him for the performance of the team and although I would have prefered to see him get a 4th season I understand why he was fired and why people wanted it. But I never understood and I will never understand why he was made to be such a villain. If I ever get to meet him, I will apologize to him for the way he was treated here. I will tell him that I wish people were more open minded. Its funny, for such a liberal city, the football fans in Ann Arbor sure are conservative.
Why does everything have to be about liberal vs. conservative? Anytime something bad happens, it gets blamed on the party one doesn't like, and anytime something good happens it's because one's personal favorite party and belief system won the day. It happened with the Tuscon shooting, and with every other news story of the last 15 years. If your dog gets run over, it's because of those conservative hicks or maybe the SUV-driving ones who can't see over the dashboard; of if you're conservative, it's because of liberal drug dealers/gangsters, or just because liberals like to pass regulations like speed limits way more than they like to follow them. It's a lazy and specious and bigoted way of thinking, and I'm tired of it.
Forgive my aside. I know this is a football-related site, and I'd like to keep it that way. It's nice to be able to come here, away from the maelstrom of political accusations going on in the world outside.
Except for the last sentence which really bothers me, I agree with everything you said.
I meant nothing political in that post.
I meant conservative as in zone left, zone left, zone left, punt from the opponents 36.
Mods - can we start killing off some of these low point posters with annoying comments like this?
Been reading since 2007 but prefer to lurk... I enjoy voting so every now and then I have to post some stuff just to get back to the 100 point total. Its frustrating that the points expire.
I think a lot of the high point posters expect that if you love this blog, you will contribute... but a lot of us just like to read. I like to vote but really don't like to comment. The old system of no point requirement to vote and down votes being free really worked for me.
So this sounds like a fund raiser, but I'm trying to get back to 100 points so I can get back to up-voting and not commenting. If anyone wants to bang me up so I don't have to comment for the sake of getting points, please, do. Pretend like I'm that loose girl you ended up taking to prom and the term "sloppy seconds" isn't really that dirty.
Rich didn't give a damn about anyone except himself. The son of a bitch even tried to start an online petition to have the name of the school changed to RichRod4Life University. Luckily MSC found it one day when she typed "funny petitions" into Google. True story.
I went back and forth about whether to respond to this, but decided to do it anyway. This is such an ignorant statement. One of my most vivid memories of RR are encapsulated in the first 30 seconds or so of this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q47XapDh47g
Rich Rodriguez loved this team as if each player were one of his sons.
Or watch a game this season? RR sat out his best player (one that many analysts claimed WAS the entire offense because he had a headache and was a little whoozy after a hit. That was a game that was going back and forth and one many felt RR absolutely had to win.
TF came in and immediately turned the ball over and still he kept DR on the sidelines. How about WH violating team rules before the OSU game and RR going into the game without a punter?
Your statement is ignorant on so many levels that I can't seem to find it even remotely possible that you followed this team or watched a single game this year.
this picture will forever remind me of the CRex saga.
Schembechler Hall used to be referred to as Fort Schembechler. So you're probably not going to get a lot of behind the scenes stuff for a while if at all.
When Rick Carlisle was booted from the Pistons, people were surprised because of his record. But then talk came out about him not being very friendly with the staff on the organization. That made for a convenient excuse with Larry Brown out there and available.
It's history, so it may be easier to go with what you know. Most people say he was a good guy. He did care about his players. He has a great offensive scheme. But he did not beat MSU or OSU and never had a winning conference record. That last fact was his undoing, more than anything else.
Not sure about his personality but I kind of consider him Michigan's martyr. Who ever came into coach was set up for a couple of very down years especially if you consider Mallet was out the door regardless. Pair all of this with the implementing of a new scheme and he never had a chance.
RR, from what we, the fans, could see, looked and acted like a decent guy. There will be people out there that claim he was pushing those closest to the program (former players, coaches, alum, etc.) further away while he was there. I personally disagree and think they chose to keep their distance, but the thing is, we may never really know.
I do know this. As a student, I met RR 2 times, and both were at charity events for Mott's Children's Hospital. The man was very friendly and I felt very comfortable around this man who was (supposed to be) a giant of a man, being a Michigan football coach and all [conversely, I met Lloyd Carr 2 times as well, and he was extremely friendly, but I was nervous as hell both times and stuttered like a fool]. Nothing to be read into this, but he came across as a very humble and nice dude.
I think there are enough conspiracy theories to last us for many years about the RR era, and I'm sure there is SOME truth to some of them. I think it's best for us to remember him how we the fans want to remember him, whether as a good guy who didn't get a fair shake, a guy who ruined a program for 3 years,or whatever it may be.
Also, John U. Bacon is writing a book about the 3 years of RR, so we have that to look forward to.
This is the equivalent of the post-breakup, one month later "why didn't it work out?" coffee meetup.
At the end of the day, it's awkward, no one gets any answers, you're broken up, and nothing is going to change it.
(See, Bacon, John U.; Third and Long. As noted in the post just above.)
So true my friend. If that has taught me anything its that you often will never know why things ended the way they did in a seemly good relationship. That's one of the first thoughts I had when we got rid of RR. It was a relationship that for whatever reason didn't work out and we'll probably never know. For me, I'm ready to move on, but I understand why many still need to know what happened.
Also see: Espresso Royale, State Street, table by the window.
I was a RichRod supporter, and would have preferred a new DC to RichRod's replacement by Hoke at the time of his firing. (I'm now on the Hoke bandwagon; what choice do I have?)
15-22 did RichRod in. THe worst Michigan defense ever did RichRod in.
In hindsight, I just think RichRod played his cards very poorly.
WHile it always sounds good to hear a coach come in with a my-way or the highway attitude toward the existing players, the coach has to be accountable for the results if too many choose the highway. And that's what did RichRod in.
While I hate to say/admit it, I think driving douchebag Justin Boren away was one of the many threads--or chain/series of unfortunate events--that led to the horrific defense, and RichRod's ouster.
If RichRod says to himself, I don't like it, but I've got to keep a few of these douchebags around until I get my guys, IMO we don't lose 22 games in three years. With Boren, we would have had a decent line. And had we played Threet in an offense that was more suitable to his skills, we may have had a non-impotent 2008 offense. And if he gets along with Scott Shafer, we don't bring in GERG, and maybe we get some more recruits on the defensive side of the ball that were sorely needed this year.
Don't get me wrong, Boren leaving didn't cause RichRod's program to crumble. But in aggregate, the attrition did, as did the lack of attention to the defensive side of the ball when it was needed a couple of years ago.
I think RIchROd is a good coach. And a wiser one that won't make the same mistakes the next place he goes.
And I agree for the most part.
The horrible record and horrible defense did him in. Even if he was Mothera Theresa he still would have been canned.
15-22 did RichRod in. THe worst Michigan defense ever did RichRod in.
I remember people calling into local radio and demanding he be let go after that first season. So its not like he made a good first impression, either.
I would add the NCAA violations to that but after the Cam Newton shenanigans, and Pryor's "Hey I'll sell my stuff for dolla billz yo", the stretching-too-long thing really amounts to a hill of nothing, IMO.
Ultimately, IMO it was the fact that he was doing things differently, was not from around here - not a so called "Michigan Man" (OMG HE SAYS Y'ALL AND IRREGARDLESS) combined with the losses that did him in. If he'd managed to go 6-6 instead of 3-9 that first year people would have just chalked it up to growing pains and shrugged it off.
One thing I will never hold against Rich Rod is the NCAA "violations". This was absolutely bogus from the very beginning -- a complete media hitjob. It seems that DB has taken the same position.
1) He did not pay attention to the whole program: e.g., compliance, defense, special teams
2) When he focused on defense it was "we're doing the 3-3-5", which apparently works great in the Big East, and MWC (and worked so well against Purdue in year one)
3) On of the first things he said was the past didn't matter, which it absolutely does at Michigan
4) He publicly fired all the Michigan Men - the entire existing staff. (Yeah, he hired Fred back, and almost all the administrative staff, but the headline should have been managed.)
5) His recruiting (may have been cornered into) hinged on some risky academic prospects.
6) He has been loyal to his WVU staff, even when the aren't performing.
7) When things obviously weren't working, he tried them again, and again (see 3-3-5).
When Rich first arrived, I said to myself "there goes quarterback U, but if he can get his offense to work in the big leagues, here comes National Championships". I was dreaming of something akin to Florida (and Urban Meyer had managed the transition from pro-set to spread masterfully).
At the time our defensive secondary needed fixing (see 2006 OSU game, Rose Bowl against USC, App State, Oregon, etc.), but the rest of the defense did not (see, Branch, Harris, Woodley, et al.), so I sort of expected some Defensive staff to stay on (not English BTW). That didn't happen, all knowledge of Big Ten and MAC opponents were sent packing, and we had three years of a defensive staff fuddling around trying to figure out how to get a stop in the Big Ten.
So we've tried Big East coaching staff, now lets try MWC staff ...
When RR becomes a head coach again, he will be even more successful, earlier, then he would have been at UM. I think years 4 and 5 would have saved him (at least 9 wins ave. including the bowl gam) and by then his program would have been established. He would have surviced down year 6 (maybe 6-6 or 7-5) and then he could have gotten the 9 regular season win average so desired at UM, at the least.
Michigan is disgustingly arrogant.
Was there something wrong with RR? Is RR not good enough to coach our university? Fucking elitist snobs make me want to puke.
OP this is in no way aimed towards you. Michigan, I will always dearly love this school, but they fucked up. Not in firing RR. But how they treated him while he was here.
If Bo had been around he wouldn't have stood for half this bullshit, he would have thrown his weight behind RR the way Bump Elliott did for him. Not stood idly by in the shadows as his successor struggled day in and day out.
you would have to include some former players that called recruits and told them not to come to Michigan. This is not idle speculation. This is reported by an alum whom I trust. RR may have been honest enough to say it out loud that the roster was crap when he got here. He did in someways say that the kids were out of shape. It showed in practice and they showed at 3-9 that they lacked great talent. Then we all know that many of the players were not all in in 2008 they chaffed at the transistion.
Rich Rod is more of a Michigan Man than anyone that would set their personal prefernces against this team. Brandy stated as much the quy worked 100 hour weeks, he and his coaches busted their asses for this school.
His personality I have no idea I met him once at the first coahing clinic. He was confident, funny, engaging, and as open as any college coach Iv'e ever encountered. I saw what was reported about RR and his coaches work with the Mealer family. Saw how he left the kicker at home for violating team rules, his work with Motts. Those things speak to character. Even Vlad E. who left the team to eventually end up at Toledo had great things to say about RR.
Don't get it twisted if the press wants you dead they will print the words to make everyone that buys that shit think you are dead. and you won't even know how they did it. If you buy it
Bo would have done several things that might well have saved RR, but they would have also required RR to make some serious "adjustments" to his plans.
1. He(Bo) would have never stood for the "everybodys on the bubble" attitude towards the seniors when RR arrived. Bo always believed that seniors who'd paid their dues were indeed entitled to certian things, read his book for details.
2. Even the risen reincarnation of Vince Lombardi himself with a solid record in college and mulitiple NFL championships & superbowl rings would have been embraced by Michigan if he came in and alienated players like RR did. The list goes far beyond just Mallet, Boren etc. Look at the # of transfers and beyond that look at the # of upperclassmen who were flat our "passed over" ala Fredo. I understand that many of them might have been beaten out but I've seen comments by a few who said they were never even considered once RR arrived.
3. RR did not have the resume to get away with the above listed. His resume was GOOD but far from GREAT or impeccable, which is what it would need to be in order to throw the kind of weight around that RR did in his first year at Michigan. A reputation as an offensive innovator & a couple great seasons in the weakest AC conference does not a GOD with an almighty pimp hand make.
I still contend that he should have gottten 4yrs under normal circumstances, however he killed that himself with the debacle that was his 1st year. Throwing Steven Threet/Nick Sheridan out there to run his scheme, knowing full well that they would fail miserably was disrespectfull to the 800,000 + fans who paid money to attend the games that year and they held that against him. Rightly or wrongly. Remember, its not what you say but what the listener percieves that counts, and what a whole lot of them percieved was that he was saying F. U. to a lot of fans by force feeding his system into a program that was ill equipped to have any success with it.
on the premise of throwing Sherdian and Threet to run his scheme. He had no one. Mallett would have transferred regardless of the coach. He tried to go after Pryor but realized that he would not have gotten him the moment Pyror stepped on campus for an official visit. He went after BJ Daniels and would've gotten him but stopped recruiting him the moment that he asked for money. Then there's Justin Feagin who seemingly is a good guy on the surface but his HS didn't know any of the off-field thing. He had to recruit with less than 2 months when he was hired.
Instead of slowing down the transition by adapting the personnell to fit the team's scheme, he decided to go full kilter and let the growing pain come for the teams. It worked last season when they became the top 10 offense in the country. He did it with a 1st year starting QB. If RR had adapt to fit the team personnel, the offense wouldn't have been nearly as good as it was last year and the record would have been a lot worse IMO.
But... He would have at least given the perception that he indeed cared as much about the tradition(30yr bowl streak, no losing record etc) and the seniors who'd paid their dues as he did about implementing his scheme.
If he'd gone 6-6 his first year utilizing Threet in a more traditional offense where he, Brandon Minor/Carlos Brown & others would have had at least some success(beat toledo & other patsies) he would have given the impression that he at least was willing to protect the traditions for the fans that showed up.
Remember, all that offense did was blast patsies for thousands of yards, so the question is "was it worth it?". To have sewn the seeds of discontent in that 1st year among the fanbase in order to accelerate the offensive learning curve? Apparently not because that fanbase & a new AD have spoken. By letting the "growing pains" come, he alienated fans & players who'd paid their dues, its as simple as that. It was a gamble and he lost.
about tradition and try to instill your system asap. The fans should've know what is coming when RR was hired and no coach would not try to adapt the pro-style offense with spread option offense because both are completely different kind of schemes that calls for different type of personnel.
Sure it wasn't the player's fault that there's a new coach in a completely different system, but it's up to the coach to decide which players fits the system the best and which one can help them ease the transition. Boren, Mallett and to name a few didn't want to deal with it so they left.
The scheme is part of the team so in essence, you need to coach both the team and the scheme.
"What's the fastest way to win lots of games?" But "how can I win the most games right now?" Yes, as fans we want to build to a National Championship as fast as possible. But there's no time limit on fandom. How do you say to your senior class "Well, if I altered my system a little, we could win more games, and not make your senior year (after 4-5 years of dedication to the program) a better one, but that won't get me to where ''I' want to be as fast, so, sorry guys, you're out of luck". By not doing whatever it takes to win as many games as possible at that time, you're cheating your seniors, who won't get another chance. And as Brandon made very clear, the program is about the players, not the fans, or coaches.
The irony being is that if he had won more early, he probably would have had more time to get to the level he wanted to reach, but instead by rushing it, got cut short.
Well said. Its supposed to be abou the players and with coach Rod, I think most percieved that it was not. Mostly due to the actions of that 1st year.
I'd bet that if he could have that year back even he would do things differently.
Yup, got cut short. I cant deny that I'd like to have seen a 4th year, but I understand why it was not to be.
something was wrong with the divisive personalities of particular UofM employees, ignorant inbred post Schembechler Michigan players, and fans that dont know football.
So former U-M players are fair game for ad hominem attacks? How about we treat everyone in the family with the same amount of respect.
This post is weird coming from someone named Braylon1
WIthout trying to needlessly bring Bo into this...when Bo got the Michigan job, as history goes, he sat down and researched everything he could about the Michigan program, the traditions, the history. When RR got the job he didn't. One of the first things he did was give the 1 jersey to a defensive back. He called the Ohio State game something to the effect of "just another game". Those being just two examples of not fully comprehending the magnitude of the situation he found himself in. Then with the record and the defense and all the rest of it he just didn't stand a chance.
Although it is perfectly illustrative of the real problem, and it's not what you think.
The idea of a defensive back getting the #1 jersey could have been solved easily, quickly, quietly, calmly. By adults. But the problem was the while adults could have solved it very effectively, we had Braylon Edwards. Who, instead of calling the Athletic Department, or Coach Rodriguez, went to the press. The way one of Braylon's mug shots or arrest warrants might go to the press.
It was utterly needless bad press, with the ironic effect of making Coach Rodriguez look bad, when it was Braylon who created the publicity mess.
And it all epitomized the spoiled, arrogant, insular Carr-tel faction in making things as difficult as possible for Coach Rodriguez.
It is all very, very embarassing. For Michigan.
Can we please, please end every single Michigan-related story you run into the ground, only to gleefully bring them up again to "remind us" of how absolutely and completely egregious it all was?
Every thread, same thing. Freep/Rosenberg/Snyder OR Braylon/DUI/mugshot OR "When I was talking to (insert big Michigan name here) I, of course, reminded him..." OR combination of the three.
Is "Carr-tel" the new one?
Braylon/DWI/Aggravated Assault/Paternity. But we both knew that...
Bando, I'm sorry if it pains you to read all Section 1's postings. I understand -- you don't have to enjoy them. But, could you maybe stay on topic for just a couple of seconds? Do you disagree with what Section 1 said *there*? Yes / no?
- - -
You won't be surprised to hear that I think he makes a good point. Too many have assumed that RichRod knew all about NUMBER ONE (as Braylon would probably put it) and said "@#$% it ... what do I care about that?" before giving the number to a random DB?
I think it's far more likely that he did it out of ignorance (not necessarily a pardonable offense, by the way) and incurred the public wrath of Diva Edwards, who could have been elegant like his dad and handled it behind-the-scenes. Instead, it blew up and found its way into the columns of idiots like Matt Hayes and Tom Dienhart, just like the Boren Family Values.
read any of the books on Bo, he frequently tells the stories of being a kid and listening to Michigan play on the radio, of going on fishing trips in Michigan while growing up in Ohio, etc.
When he and his staff first arrived at U of M from Miami of Ohio, his staff started complaining about the condition of the facilities, since the athletic program was in the red, and immediately Bo set them straight by saying, "wait a minute, do you see this hook in the coaches locker, Yost hung his clothes on this hook, Crisler hung his clothes on that hook, This is Michigan, there is no place better!"
That doesn't come from someone who had to "read up" on Michigan. He knew about Michigan from his love of football and growing up in the Midwest.
And if you listen to Hoke, and realize he grew up in the midwest, played ball at a MAC level school and ended up being the head coach at his MAC alma-mater, you will realize that Hoke was Brandon's first choice because Brandon is trying to hire Bo, NOT Lloyd Carr.
Or the delightfully Sandburg-on-Lincoln-esque story of Bo's dad stopping in Ann Arbor on the way home from one of said fishing trips so Bo could watch the players coming in from practice. Complete with little Glenn E. likely standing on the very spot where the building that sports his name now stands.
It's so damn poetic you would normally doubt such a story could ever be true. But with Bo, you know it was.
but just like you, after the bowl game I just couldn't take it anymore. I think this video pretty much sums up his career here:
was Scott Shafer. Who was then discharged. That's the 2008 OSU game in Columbus. I was there.
Why is he getting negged for this? According to what I've heard Shafer simply wasn't getting along with the rest of the defensive staff, and was let go. I also heard Shafer p.o.'d several local HS coaches.
They claimed he "resigned," but googling the story you find this:
"We just had a mutual decision," Shafer told the Free Press. "We had different thoughts on the way we did things. I take full responsibility for the demise of where Michigan's program is at this time."
Given the subsequent performance of the defense in 2009 and 2010 after he left, one might draw the conclusion that the problem was the rest of the defensive coaches and not Shafer and that the reason he did not get along with them is that they were all former RR guys from WVU. Our big time fail here was that RR was unable to bring Jeff Casteel over as his D coordinator when he moved to Michigan.
Note that the 2010 Syracuse defense was ranked no. 7 overall in NCAA in terms of yardage allowed per game and no. 17 overall in NCAA in terms of points allowed per game.
Lends more credence to an observation that the issue was the assistant coaches that came with RR from WVU and not Shafer as DC.......
That video seriously makes me want to vomit. I also long for that defense again -- if that's even possible (Taylor, Stewart, Trent, Graham, Brown...)...sigh...
At least it played pretty well the first 10 games of the season or so! Hope that Hoke brings in high class defensive talent and returns to 4-3 alignment so that highly rated defensive line guys will want to come and play here again.
Mr. Blazefire is this: Will we finally meet up in the parking space we always use and share some Beer and Brats this year? This coming season will be my third since I started blogging here (I've been to at least 4 games a year for 22 years now) and we always talk about it with no result. I think that this year's spring game, provided it's open to the public should be the time. What say you?
but yes, we still need to do that. I know we've been there on the same game day a few times. I do not know how we missed each other.
The Carr-tel did RR in. They played "dirty pool" behind the scenes, and deliberately encouraged both attrition and the NCAA investigation. And they didn't help with recruiting, either. They made sure RR never got any traction. They would have done it to any outsider, because Carr was profoundly pissed that he didn't get to name his successor.
Of all the Carr-tel candidates, Hoke is the best because he got outside of the nest for awhile. He has a chance to be THE coach who introduces new coaching DNA into the Carr-tel. That would be a great accomplishment, and he may turn out to accidentally be a great "compromise choice" between the Carr-tel and proponents of 21st century football without either side knowing there was a compromise.
For better or worse, Hoke is our hope (NTH).
but also too true.
But what's a forum without a few good conspiracies?
C'mon man. Lloyd and co. wold sabotage the program because he couldn't name a succesor?
Lloyd Carr: Evil, calculating puppetmaster...
It's too bad that meme has caught on, and will continue to be promoted by people who don't know any better, who likely thought he didn't "win enough," or wasn't "exciting enough," wasn't "elite," etc. etc. etc.
Lloyd Carr has more love for our University in the tip of this finger than a lot of us can ever hope to have in our entire beings. He's done more for our University, and continues to do more for our University, than most of any of us can boast, in and out of the public eye. And it's completely unfair the way he has been treated, and will continue to be treated, as a result of the Rich Rodriguez tenure, both in its limited successes and the aftermath of its failure.
And the great irony is that in 2008, Carr called several players who were thinking of transferring and challenged them to stick it out. Most of them did. This little detail conveniently gets ignored by many.
And I'll remember that, hopefully, before taking a cheap shot at Lloyd Carr. The notable transfers (Boren, Mallett, Clemons) weren't "driven off." They left despite the earnest efforts to keep them -- that applies to Carr as well as Rodriguez.
So neg away whiners. I am so fucking sick of honest opinions getting bashed on here. Saying something ridiculous is one thing, But all this other shit is just stupid. I fucking hate how peole are scared to put up there opinion for fear of queer ass internet retribution. Its like this thread-The OP says something people find redundant yet rather than just let it die it gets a bunch of jerk ass comments about re-hash. What fucking part of the solution are you. ZERO. You fall into the same category your critical of. I seriously used to love MGO, but now even though it has great info, the rest of it is a stupid bitch fest where half the people on here act like they are trying out in some popularity contest. Shit dampens my fandom.
If I let anything on MGoBlog "dampen my fandom," I wouldn't be a fan anymore.
It's the internet.
Its one thing to see shit get silly if I was on some site where it had open content about other teams etc. You expect that shit in mass quantity. But on here I feel like this blog has been trashed in overall poster content.
Its frustrating because it was a lot better 4 years ago but I could see it taking shape then. I want the blog to take a step towards cutting it down, and there are measures. I just think its sad that Michigan fans are so shitty with one another about almost anything on here.
If I tell someone I don't like a scheme, player, coach Hoke or Rodriguez-whatever- and I lay out my case in an intelligent way then it should be respected and debated. Or if I have something on my mind that I wanna talk about then I should feel free as should everybody else without ass clowns cluttering up the thread with their bullshit.
But as you stated-it is the internet. And because of that this is what you get and I cant do shit about it. Doesn't mean I am not going to tell people to go fuck themselves and get pissy about it. Its in my nature. I guess I just thought this might be the one place to talk about things related to something as simple as Michigan sports without all of the kiddie shit ruining it. I was wrong.
was that he wasn't defensive enough.
Whether Rodriguez connected with the players or not is open for debate. One thing I have never heard about Rodriguez from Michigan or West Virginia players is that he established great loyalty among the players or that they had great affection for him. I have heard that he is a good guy, a great coach, brilliant, tough, and a guy that makes players better by demanding great effort.
On Hoke, I hear over and again that he connects with the players and they genuinely feel like he is with them. I hear that they want to play for him and bust their asses for him. They do it by desire and not out of fear.
We'll probably see fairly early on whether this difference is meaningful or not.
One thing I have never heard about Rodriguez from Michigan or West Virginia players is that he established great loyalty among the players or that they had great affection for him.
Huh? None of the players on Michigan's team established a great loyalty toward their coach? Is this actually what you are saying? If RR was snatched up quickly by another school (say, Clemson), you don't think that Denard would have strongly considered following one of the only coaches who recruited him to play QB, and only QB? Your anti-RR agenda is making you say some really silly things.
will end up being RR's fault? I'm guessing everything is going to get pinned on him until at least year 3 of the Hoke era.
Does Hoke get a "free(p) pass" and any mediocrity get's dumped on our ex-coach?
Hopefully we will be successful enough that none of that will be necessary.
With the number of starters we're returning, I say absolutely none of it.
Maybe the safeties. But other than that, NONE OF IT.
I really don't have any first hand experience with RR. To me (watching interviews) he seemed to be very passionate about the game and cared about his players. He didn't come off as the warmest of people I guess, but not a bad guy by any means. I guess we'll find out in time.
Anyway, people saying someone they heard from someone that he wasn't that nice of a guy just sucks. I'm not saying that he was definitely a nice guy., but someone having an unpleasant experience with him doesn't really mean much. Everyone has bad days, especially someone who's in a 3-year battle for job security.
have ever deserved the character assassination they've regularly been subjected to over the last three years, and in Carr's case, even longer. The fact that partisans in both camps have routinely played a role in hurling the insults is incredibly unfortunate. The extent to which RR and LC themselves played a role, if any, in perpetuating the negative stereotypes, is something that many seem determined to speculate on, with nothing more than hearsay and rumor to go on.
College football coaches aren't godly saints or Mother Theresa. They're normal human beings like the rest of us, with personal failings and wonderful attributes. I should think that the amount of volunteer work that both Carr and RR did for Mott and other charitable causes would be enough for people to conclude that they're both fundamentally good people, but unfortunately many seem to need a cast of villains in their lives. I don't know why people need to psychoanalyze RR in particular, when it's basically a simple case of him not doing a good enough job of being a head coach to have succeeded here. People everywhere in every field fuck up, make mistakes, step on their dicks, and they move on. Humans are fallible. That's certainly the case for every MGoBlog poster and commenter, too.
Don, surely left to our own devices we all will fail at something and as delusional as I have been about RR he did play a role in his lack of sucess.. However, I submit that RR had some help in failing. The single most damning evidence that RR had some help is to hear an alum tell that former players called recruits and told them not to come to Michigan. RR, or who ever is the coach may be really good at their craft, but they cannot be good without the Jimmys and the Joes. When your best players are walk-ons, OSU cast offs, and a bunch of freshmen. well you get the picture.
If I never hear Michigan Man again it will be too soon.
I don't know. I will say that I honestly was surprised that more players didn't publicly defend RR at the end of the season and lobby for him to be retained. And by and large, they didn't really seem to have taken the news of his firing that hard. I think back to when Tommy Amaker was fired; his players were devastated. Maybe there was some of that and it just didn't get reported. Whatever the case, the players seem to have taken a shine to Hoke, which is a good thing.
All I want to do is wish RR well. He should be welcome here in the future. I hope he does well wherever he finishes up. Like many of you I did not know him personally but I'm sure he wanted what was best for the players and the program.
My nephew went to a high school football camp at Michigan last summer. When it was all over all the kids were told "Whoever wants to shake RR hand get in line". Out of 600 kids only 3 got in line...
My nephew was at the June 19th - June 22nd camp. Michigan does have more than one camp!!! A-Hole
I had the opportunity to have lunch with the team and their families after the most recent spring game and preseason scrimmage, and Rich could not have been a nicer, more friendly guy to everyone he met. Standard caveats about being nice in the presence of family members aside, I truly believe it was Rich acting like he normally would. These half-baked characterizations really annoy the hell out of me.
I don't have anything to add about Rich Rod's personality. I was a big supporter of his and passionately believed that under Rich Rod 2011 would be a great season... until the Gator Bowl. Then I no longer believed. Just as the Gator Bowl gutted the pro-Rich Rod community, it seems to have gutted the last of DB's hope in the regime.
Apparently, breaking up is extremely difficult even when the record speaks for itself. This thread reminds me of a few relationships in my life...
It's already been beaten to death, but 15-21, 0-1 in bowls (in three seasons) and 0-6 against our two big in-conference rivals, plus a defense that, in the words of a famous viral video, "would suck even in flag football" were perhaps the paramount reasons.
for football season to begin.
I think RR's biggest problem might have been that he was from an environment where he had to built the entire program. WVU is right at .600 for winning over their entire history and RR had them at 11-1 and winning BCS games. He was the focus of their program. Here he was just the 18th Michigan football coach and not really the focus. He basically went from being WVU's Bo to the new guy.
Whenever somebody talked about Rodriguez, they said he was a truly upstanding guy, a great guy, wanted to win as much as anybody, etc,
In my experience, when I hear these sorts of things about a person, they're not often true. I'm not saying anything about RR, but the comments that people have made about them struck me as such.
Rich using the word "tremendous" very often. That couldn't have helped the transition.
I know all football coaches are "yellers" but RR seemed over the top. We all remember him looking like he would explode at times. I also remember distinctly how his teams would come out after halftime completely deflated. We were benind but still "in the game" vs. Iowa this year. We came out after halftime instead of being enthused and pumped, the team was deflated and dejected. We got the second half kickoff and promptly went 3 and out in like 40 seconds and the ass-kicking was on.
Seemed like he lacked the ability to get enthusiastic support from both fans and the team.
Glad the experiment isover, but the next two years will be rough.
is a "Michigan Man" now because he is now a former coach - just like Brady Hoke. Now he could get hired and there'd be no problem.
Forget the "dark ages", let's get pumped for the future, support our new coach and staff fully, look forward to DRob staying (yeah), and get excited to get back to rock'em sock'em knock'em down football.
If anything, the man was stubborn and guilty of not doing due dilligence on things. He had no idea the situation he was walking into and he made some very poor choices in recruits with personal issues. Making us sit through watching Steven Threet try to run the zone read was just ridiculous and not something we should have had to put up with. That burned whatever capital he had right there.
The way he was treated here will be a blueprint for how not to treat a new coach though. Good god. Undermined from the word go.
He did keep reiterating that he didn't realize how "bare the cupboard was" and that "Lombardi couldn't win" with this defense. I think people felt that was disingenuous.
I may as well join the party here ...
* I think RichRod could have been more politically savvy at key moments. Maybe when he saw his offensive set-up in early '08 he could have kept his shock and horror to himself. A memorable Rivals posting (which was copied to the 'blog) from a guy named JIzzard19 (or something) suggested that he did NOT keep it to himself but loudly bemoaned his bad luck. I'm sure that pleased all Lloyd's minions.
* Remember all the talk about how Lloyd was running a "country club" during his last years? There might have been some truth to that. I've wondered whether Rodriguez bothered to talk to a handful of older players to get a sense of how Barwis et al. would be received.
* He lacked poise under pressure. His sideline demeanor and behavior in press conferences could have been better IMO.
* Sorry to bring Rita into this, but can you imagine how the plump Midwestern gals (painting in broad strokes here, of course) received her "Miss West Virginia, 1982" look? Must have been awkward! In contrast, imagine how warmly they received Midwestern-cute Laura Hoke and her daughter. Ahh... much better. Small potatoes, but that probably matters to the little gnomes in the athletic department. I'm sure the wine-and-cheese crowd had trouble with Rich & Rita, too.
- - -
He had a tough row to hoe. I'm guessing he couldn't have done anything more to keep Mallet, and I'm also guessing that Michigan was never seriously in play for Pryor. That left him with Threetsheridammit behind a line of mostly second-stringers. Sorry, but no way is Lloyd going to a BCS bowl with that crew.
Did he have a personality that ingratiated him to anyone? In case you don't remember him, he was the head basketball coach at Indiana and the answer is no; his personality grated on people, he was combative (literally) but the man won. And he stayed to become a legend at Indiana. If he hadn't won, I'm sure he would of been out the door right pronto; folks might of been bringing up the same question with Coach Knight.
In the end, it's all about wins and losses.
I don't buy that the fan base had anything to do with Rodriguez's lack of success at Michigan. When Nick Saban went to LSU, they lost to UAB in their first season and LSU fans were calling for his head. When Saban went to Bama and lost to Univ of Lousiana Monroe (possibly the worst D1-A team that year) people were calling for his head too. Every coach has deals with angry fans when they don't win.
Michigan wasn't even close to competing with good teams under Rod.
Since Vince Lombardi who in many ways is archetype for modern coaches gets dragged into the discussion of the RR era, I went and looked up some of the primary sources, e.g. Lombardi on Football (2 volume set and also a neat series of VHS tapes where his actual chalk talks are filmed). Luckily these are still widely available.
1. His defensive coordinator (don't think that term was used then but the equivalent) was Phil Bengston. He is said to be brilliant at that job. Later when elevated to HC, he was only a 50/50 coach lacking Lombardi's fiery ability to inspire his team - even the veterans noted that "something was lacking." So Lombardi had a good DC.
2. But despite being a "offense guy" Lombardi had several observations about defense. Granted this was from the dawn of what we would call modern defense (late 1950 and early 1960s) and because he looked from the perspective of someone who attacked defenses, he saw weaknesses in his own team and made moves to correct them. One point was that he didn't believe in the "bend but don't break idea." He was more concerned about limiting the gain on each play to 3 years or less. He wanted as many 3 and outs as possible to get his defense off the field and his offense back on. This notion that you'll tolerate giving up yardage because it is unlikely the other team could string together 6-8 consecutive plays without an error, penalty or turnover was not in his way of thinking. He wanted a stout defense - didn't believe in outscoring the opponents.
3. He made the most of his personnel - when he got there he realized that Starr was his QB and made Hornung his HB rather than tinker around with using him as a QB or WR. He realized that Dowler was a much better and elusive reciever than as a pure runner so he made him a flanker. He adapted his system to the available players.
4. He paid a lot of attention to detail. Each year, he would go over the play book from the beginning. Even plays the team of returning starters had run thousands of time would be broken down and rediscussed from the beginning. The famous power sweep to the strong side was reinstalled each year as if from scratch. Attention to detail, focus on getting the basic stuff right and the complex stuff will all fall into line.
Invoking Lombardi was probably not a good idea for anyone trying to defend RR. I know RR was trying to ease the tension when he made that quip and I don't hold it against him.
RR made other PR blunders. Errors which would have been OK and forgotten had he won. On the field and off the field as it relates to football, he didn't seem to have a good read on the situation. He overestimated the tolerance for losing. He underestimated the need to have a good defense. Things piled up which suggested a lack of attention to all three aspects of the game (don't know if this was true or not, but it was an impression). His luck was bad (even his harshest critics have to acknowledge a number of injuries to the secondary). The whole Lombardi thing was just one more thing he did NOT need and unfortunately he himself called it up.
I hope he has good luck in the future. I do believe he really tried and wanted to be successful here. I suspect he'll be more careful next time. I hope Brady Hoke turns the team around.
Reading between the lines DB obviously felt that RR was too much about himself and not enough about the kids or the school. Many of DB's comments at various press conferences discussing what he was looking for in a coach seemed to me to hinge around this issue.
I think our previous poster CRex said it best as: WVU is right at .600 for winning over their entire history and RR had them at 11-1 and winning BCS games. He was the focus of their program. Here he was just the 18th Michigan football coach and not really the focus. He basically went from being WVU's Bo to the new guy expected to build on what was here.
That basic change and the baggage that came with it points out what kind of happened here with RR and is the starting point for everything that went wrong, both on RR's part and on the Michigan communities part. RR thought he was brought in to do what he had done at WVU and become the next Bo, and those already here in terms of alumni and players and athletic department staff and what not expected him to come in and honor the previous regime and the "Michigan Way" and maybe make some modifications but not blow the whole thing up.
Bill Martin and Mary Sue Coleman, in essence, brought RR in to blow the whole thing up and then sat back and watched as it all unfolded without providing the proper guidance and support to RR and the proper instruction to all the involved parties on all sides as RR lacked the political savvy and experience to understand the camel through the eye of a needle experience he was undergoing.
It took everyone involved to get us here, and while some are more to blame than others, no one is blameless from RR to Carr to Bill Martin to Mary Sue Coleman to some of Carr's players and beyond. The lack of a top leadership person that made both RR and the rest of the actors in this drama work together and bring them to a mutual understanding led most directly to this entire failed episode. With the former football coach emeritus gone (Bo), and the hire of a man brought in to blow up what had been established by the remaining football coach on the scene (Carr, who rather quickly departed), and a lame duck AD focussed on building a stadium improvement, this is what we got from that leaderless ship.
Listening to Josh Groban is a personality flaw...
did not like the guy. Personally, I liked Coach Rod, outside of the W-L record, but then again I've never met him. Apparently he made a little bit of an ass of himself after he first got hired by getting wasted (as did his assistants) in front of a bunch of former players. Even then, most of them didn't have a problem with his West Virginia lineage, it was more that he didn't seem to care about Alumni and didn't take the time to get to know much about Michigan's traditions. If you asked most of them, I think their biggest complaint would be that he was sloppy and careless, especially when it came to practices. Multiple times guys commented on how our players would act like thugs, cursing non-stop while no coach addressed the lack of focus. To them, that mentality pervaded the program and was why we could never seem to execute in big game situations.
Again, these are not my opinions, I've never been to practice, but just what I heard whenever I would defend Rodriguez to those guys.
Rich Rodriguez was loved in WVU. I'm mean, they loved the man because he was one of them - local product, prodigal son come home (Harbaugh!!!) and compared to Bobby Bowden, Frank Cignetti and Don Nehlen, wildly successfull in the win column. The players he didn't recruit hated his guts. The players he did recruit would have gone to war for the man.
As for the MSM, I don't understand it. Until the improbable thumb injury to Pat White and resulting 2007 Pittsburgh loss, I think they didn't pay enough attention to do reporting on Rich Rodriguez. There was the Alabama thing, but that blew over pretty quickly all things considered.
Now add Michigan into the mixture and things got weird all around really fast.
Here's what I mean by weird: To have the Detroit media or any Michigan alum or former player "upset" by a coach using profanity and "belittling" a player - well, I think those people have very, very selective memories or a very limited understanding of just how in-your-face, belligerent, and trucker-mouth Bo Schembechler and his staff was. They were visciously demanding and perfectionists.
Yet Rodriguez, who swears like the best of truckers on I-80, was made out to be some sort of ignorant, undermining, rebel outsider planting dynamite and C-4 charges under Michigan's Massive Tradition! bridge.
Oh well. That whacky MSM.
Hoke already praised Rodriguez and his staff for their "tremendous" dedication so that's all you need to know. Right?
Good to hear that Hoke is getting all this love, but let's not kid ourselves. His top priority (now that Denard is staying) is holding on to this recruiting class and picking up a few more defensive recruits. If Desmond and the other guys can help with that, that will be 'friend in need' type help.
Of course, the MGoCommunity could also lend a hand; Coach Hoke can use a hand in recruiting, and who better than you to Photoshop Coach Tressel in an S&M outfit (actually, might not be necessary to Photoshop if you have good sources) or Coach Dantonio as Lucifer (same caveat applies)? You guys are geeky enough to find his e-mail; it sure didn't take me very long. Do what you can.
Belein went to RR practices whenever he could, took a real interest. In my two times meerting and talking with RR he was most cordial and patient, pleasant to be with. Mike Kenn who played under Bo for 3 years and then 17 years with the Atlanta Falcons, said that in all of his 20 years of playing high level football, he had never seen better run practices than RR ran. Rita who maybe didn't have the appearance everyone wanted was in my contact with her very serious and community minded. It was in part her idea to turn the spring game into a charity event, and a substantial amount of money was raised for Mott Hospital as a result. I believe a major in the RR downfall was the lack of leadership and public support for RR from the highest levels, including Bill Martin, Dave Brandon, Mary Sue Coleman, along with Lloyd Carr and others.
Strong public support form the top along with Lloyd, in which they could have demanded that while RR is coach that we all get behind him and let this play out may have led to different outcome. I am embarrssed by that lack of leadership and by our impatient, whiny fan base. We obviously are not the leaders and best in all regards. We can't face a little adversity and have a stiff upper lip when we need it. RR was the best option to make us competitive with the SEC. The best of the Big Ten failed New Years day. Is that what we want emulate. As much as I can't stand Drew Sharp he had the right question at the press conference. National championships is what I wanted, and I believe That is now unlikely as we fade back to the traditional Big Ten style of play. We will continue to slide down as a conference until someone comes in somewhere and changes direction as RR was doing.
I like Brady Hoke as a person, leader, teacher, someone who deeply cares about Michigan and the student athletes and I will support him. However, I believe his approach will at best make us competitive in the Big Ten eventually and not a national champion.
i don't know if it was necessarily something wrong with his personality, or his being... but there was definitely something wrong with him as a coach... he didn't win enough to be up to our historic Michigan football standards. plain and simple. i say good riddance... out with the old, in with the new. GO HOKE, and GO BLUE!!!