OT - Verlander or Scherzer?
I literally laughed out loud.
I miss him something fierce.
You can't be serious.
#2 has the best reaction.
Was that in a Josh Groban music video?
I watched that about 10 times, and then realized that it's RR doing that wiggle-snaky whateverthefuckyoucallit thing.
AZ is a better place for him.
Thanks for not hiding your smugness.
And you're calling other people smug? LOL
This is why we need voting back.
-1 Dead Horse beating forthcoming.
Brady Hoke get that $$$$$$$$$ cash cash dollar bills y'allz
Anibal Sanchez has been the best pitcher if you go by ERA, FIP, and K/9. Talk about a great problem to have for Leyland. They have 4 pitchers who can start at Game 1 for the Tigers. How many team in the league can say that? Unreal depth and quality pitchers on one rotation. The bullpen is fortified with Porcello moving to the bullpen as a long relief pitcher. They have Smyly, Veras and Beniot as a 7-8-9 RP which is now solid.
Leyland is the manager and is very loyal to his players. He is going to go with JV. He has been the ace of the staff for several years and I see Leyland sticking with him. It is a good problem to have, I guess.
This is completely not true. Leyland will go with whomever gives them the best chance to win the series. In '06 he went with Nate Freaking Robertson against the Yankees in game 1.
Part of that was by necessity, the Tigers were trying to win the division so they didn't have the luxury of lining up the rotation to face the Yanks. Stupid Royals sweeping us at home.
Actually, I don't think that played much of a factor. I don't recall Leyland going "all out" to win the division. I can't say I remember for sure that they were setting the rotation for the playoffs in that week, but I think they were. If they really were worried about winning the division, I don't think they would have skipped JV's final start. Here's who started to end the season:
And the order of pitchers in the ALDS:
There was a day off before the ALDS, so Bonderman or Verlander could have went on full rest in game 1 and that's what everyone expected. Instead, he went with Robertson, likely to mitigate the short porch for Yankees lefties.
All this, point being that Leyland will not choose the starter for game 1 of the post season based solely on who the better pitcher is.
They started Kenny on 2 days of rest for the season finale? What you've looked up is probably true and I haven't checked but going off of memory, I just figured they had tried to fend off the Twins from overtaking them on the last day yet again.
Yeah, according to baseball-reference he only threw 70 pitches (< 4 innings) in the prior start.
I'm struggling remembering exactly how it was being talked about at the time, but I do remember everyone being surprised - even knowing who was rested and for how long - that Robertson got the call.
This is all true but it was also before JV was the JV we now know.
Certainly true. That ALDS game was his true coming out party.
I think the big surprise was that Bondo didn't get game 1, though knowing the Yankees lefty-heavy lineup, it made sense.
Wait. Since when does September have 31 days?
Scherzlander - I'd start him
He's so hot right now.
Sounds like a guy that would build a school, too.
I think they'll start whomever would be scheduled to start on normal rest. Porcello will be moved to the bullpen, but after that the rotation is so deep I don't see a reason to move things around.
This is one of those hypothetical talk radio questions.
You can't make this decision until you know who you're playing and who's pitching the best come October. A lot can change in 5 weeks.
One thing I know: Leyland will examine all the data and arguments for whomever and make the decision that is best for the team. He's never been one to shy away from unconventional decisions regarding post season pitching match-ups, so this idea that he will pick JV out of pure loyalty is completely unfounded.
HOWEVA, if we go completely blind, i'd go with:
for the playoff. You can make arguments for Anibal to start game 1 based on numbers which is better than Scherzer.
Granted, Scherzer doesn't have as many postseason appearances as Verlander (7 to Justin's 12), but they've managed to put up somewhat comparable stats in their experiences in postseason play.
This is just the historic overview, of course, and the decision will be made based on opponents and current performance at the end of September, I imagine.
K/9 - Scherzer would rate at 10.91, Verlander at 9.85
BB/9 - Scherzer sits at 3.55, Verlander at 3.33
So, in both cases, their K/BB ratio sits within earshot of 3.00. Also consider:
Postseason BA against for Scherzer: 0.214
Postseason BA against for Verlander: 0.226
Postseason WHIP for Scherzer: 1.21
Postseason WHIP for Verlander: 1.24
Ever so slight edge to Max Scherzer there, but with a far smaller sample in his case.
If you look at K%, BB%, LOB% and a few others, they are close enough - I believe - to say that existing postseason data might indicate that you'd likely get comparable performances in the postseason.
Now, there is also FIP - fielder independent pitching - which measures what ERA may look like based on things pitchers can control (i.e.,excluding balls that fall for hits and so forth). Justin Verlander's FIP expressed as ERA is 4.09, compared to 2.70 for Max Scherzer. That has a lot to do with who you're facing, of course, so consider that as well.
In any case, it's a little early to be asking this question, I would think. We still have over a month of regular season baseball left.
If it works out that we can rest some guys and choose our rotation, then there's no question. Scherzer and Sanchez are our two best pitchers. The only question is if you want Fister or Verlander in the third spot. Some might say that JV has the playoff experience, but that experience hasn't been all that great. It's kind of scary how much he has lost on his fastball in one year. I've got much more confidence in Max and Sanchez.
that is the concern. This really sucks because the Tigers just signed him to a long term deal as well. With the need to re-sign Scherzer and Cabrera the Tigers may have to look into trading JV in order to do so.
I'd say there's a 0% chance they sign Scherzer to an extension. Getting Sanchez this past winter basically meant that Scherzer was going to be trade bait after this year. The tigers should get one hell of a return on top major league ready prospects.
He is only getting better and better. I'd trade Verlander before Scherzer at this point.
Because they won't be able to afford what Scott Boras will want for him on the open market. Your choices are either let him walk after next year and get a compensation 1st round pick for him, or trade him after this season and restock your farm system with high end talent that allows you to extend your championship run.
PS There's no way the Tigers can/will/or should trade away Verlander, those type of arms don't grow on trees, he'll get it figured out sooner or later.
That the tigers won't match Scherzers asking price. You don't know what their payroll ceiling is as they havent stated one.
Have another bro.
a few inches off the speed of his fastball, but I don't think that's his biggest problem. It's where he's locating his fastball that's hurting him. JV is not just a fastball pitcher; his curve is one of the better ones in the league, too.
Best case scenerio, IMO, for the Tigers is that they open up a double-digit lead over Cleveland and KC by mid-Seeptember and rest JV one time around in the rotation. This would give him a mental and physical break (don't forget, he's thrown way more innings over the last 4 years than anyone else in the AL) while giving the coaching staff and JV some extra time to work on his mechanics and/or anything else thats causing him to struggle.
I'd go Sanchez-Scherzer-Fister-Verlander. JV has looked absolutely awful at times. In fact, most his starts have been average-to-below average.
I'm mored worried about how we can only put up 3 runs on 15 hits.
Don't forget that was against the 2nd most dominant pitcher in the National League this season... 15 was a little much, but I'm not worried considering it was against a pitcher as good as Harvey. And frankly, since we have something like 3 or 4 guys hitting over .300 and 5 or 6 hitting above .280 and Fielder, I am not too worried... If I were to be worried about anything, I would still be a little frightened about our bullpen depth which should only get stronger when we put Porcello in there for the playoffs (Huge if, though... Not to get ahead of ourselves).
Definitely frustrating but nothing to worry about. They lead the majors in run differential, two out runs, hits, slugging %, team batting avg, OBS, OPS, and are second in runs scored. I'd be far more concerned if they struggled to get runners on base.
Lets wait and see what happens over the next month.
Once we successfully splice them Maxtin Scherzlander will be unstoppable.
Assume Max continues this streak - keeps the ERA down, throws 10 Ks, and goes at least 7 innings each game. He is probably the number 1. Who's your 2? At this point Sanchez is pitching better - ERA and WHIP. Do you use Vers so you have him a second time in 7 games, if needed? Or do you ride with Anibal, the better pitcher, right now?
I'd definitely go with Scherzer plainly on the fact that he has been such a dominant force this season. He is the guy that I would want starting games 1 and 5 in the ALDS series... As for the rest, I would want Verlander, Sanchez, and Fister... I would definitely take Sanchez in games 3 and 7 in the ALCS and WS
Absolutely agree. Scherzer pitches game 1 and game 5 of the ALDS or game 1 of the ALCS. The guys on baseball tonight said start JV then Scherzer but their logic was flawed because they had Detroit going with only a three-man rotation which, clearly, isn't the case.
it's like that scene in Harlem nights when Frankie dumps his family for Sunshine. . .
This year? Max
We have the best rotation and best lineup in baseball. The Detroit Tigers!
If (a) Miggy were in the National League or (b) Chris Davis weren't the roidiest hgh flukehead in baseball history, Miggy would already have wrapped up the triple crown in mid-August. No one has ever won it in consecutive years. Not Ted Williams. Not Rogers Hornsby. Not nobody.
Bonds, McGwire, Palmeiro, Sosa and Giambi all beg to differ regarding that title...
the grave and paid Kate Upton to fuck with JV's head.
You think the Yankees will makes the playoffs?
Sanchez second and then JV barely pver Fister. JV reminds me of Tiger Woods struggles right now. All mental overthink and way too tight. JV has to command and use his off speed better and re-learn tp paint the corners since his fastball if not thrown above 97 and has no movement and is batting practice this time of year to ML hitters.
There are 33 games left. Something about chickens before hatching.
Magic number stands at 28.
With the way this year has played out you have to go with scherzer. How couldn't you? The guys control is unreal. Also, this can take pressure of Verlander to avoid some of the problems he's had in the past once he hit the playoffs. I may even go with Sanchez as the number two guy and have verlander in the three spot. It's not a bad problem to have at all.
Miguel Cabrera is unreal, simply unreal.
That on-base streak graphic said it all.
Miguel has 3 of the 5 longest on-base streaks this year. Which begs the question: What's the record for fewest games in which someone has not reached (controling for regular appearances)?
Maybe he can pitch too
At this point, look at the match up and see if Verlander feels like the right play, but in general I'd go with Sherzer. He's just been the better pitcher, and while Verlander has been a dominant player for years, he's having a down season and there's no reason to believe he'd be able to turn it around in the postseason. Plus, his postseason numbers are not stupendous - 6-4, 4.22 ERA, okay advanced stats and BaBIP, but not nearly as dominant save for Oakland last year. He's a great #2 or #3 depending on the matchup, and I'd honestly rather have him available for a big game 6 than running on fumes for game 7.
1.) by growing debate do you mean Valenti and Foster are trolling you?
2.) does it really matter since no one on this staff needs to pitch 1,4,7? betweem Sanchez, Scherzer, and Verlander you ahve three guys to pitch two games and porcello to roll out in the middle.
who say it's too early. If the season ended now, it's definitely Scherzer, without a question.
The 2011 or 2012 Verlander? No question, it's JV. 2013 Verlander even if you give him some extra credit for long term resume, JV is #2.
And I also agree that he's not a lock for the #2 right now. T
Guess the post-season ERA/WHIP:
4.22 ERA/1.24 WHIP
1.77 ERA/0.98 WHIP
Sanchez is the latter although in fewer starts plus JV was rocked in 2006 as a rookie so the stats are misleading but still.....
Tigers are 1.5 ahead of Boston for HFA throughout the playoffs.
Tigers are 1 GB Atlanta for best record overall (which means nothing thanks to crazy Uncle Bud).
6 Games up on Cleveland basically makes the division over at this point. If the Tigers go .500 the rest of the way out, the Tribe would have to go 22-10. It's OVA.
Will Castellanos get major ABs in September???
While I'd love to see Nick C get a chance to show what he has I wonder what good it will do to start his service time now in a platoon. If Dirks can build off what he's done this week then I can't really see a scenario where Castellanos gets called up instead of being sent to winterball. Since he's not on the 40 man they'd have to designate somebody to clear room, unless the rules are different for September??
Tigers pitchers rankings:
1) Sanchez - Better FIP and xFIP. Would have higher WAR if not for time lost due to injury
2) Scherzer - Pretty damn close to Sanchez, but if you're using wins to measure his season you're doing it wrong. Scherzer is getting a crazy amount of run support, and he's only responsible for a few of those. Would be fine with either of these guys starting game 1.
T3) Verlander/Fister - Unless Verlander has been chillin all year waiting to amp it up in the playoffs, he's obviously a tier below Scherzer and Sanchez, and about even with Fister. Verlander's rate stats (xFIP, FIP, etc) are a bit lower than Fister but Verlander goes deeper into games. Now, maybe the Tigers managment know Verlander has been cruising this year and will amp it up for the playoffs, but he's definitely not a game 1 or 2 starter at this point.
the way verlander is pitching, i think he is our #3, behind sanchez and scherzer