OT: UVA suspends all fraternities after Rolling Stones investigative report on gangrape

Submitted by taistreetsmyhero on

Not sure this is an appropriate topic, but it could definitely have widespread implications. And, UVA's president is Teresa Sullivan (former UofM provost). Link:  http://www.rollingstone.com/culture/news/uva-suspends-fraternities-following-rolling-stone-campus-rape-investigation-20141122

Anyway, for anyone interested in the original Rolling Stone report:  http://www.rollingstone.com/culture/features/a-rape-on-campus-20141119

It's definitely a...strong move. I'm sure it will be critiqued in the coming weeks. Could lead us down a slippery slope--a pretty extreme move rather than an attempt to reform anything. 

EDIT:  this comes a week after WVU suspended all greek life following the death of a student related to hazing 

http://www.nola.com/education/index.ssf/2014/11/after_pledges_death_west_virgi.html

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SFBlue

November 23rd, 2014 at 1:58 PM ^

So you are perfectly fine with punishing dozens of fraternities and hundreds of students for bad acts reportedly committed by completely independent actors?

Keeping within the legal fiction, due process rights could be implicated by action taken against fraternities.  Members of a fratenity have rights of association, rooted in the First Amendment, and fraternities may have property interests in recruiting, etc. Fraternities themselves may also have First Amendment rights, under the U.S. Supreme Court's Citizens United case.  Wholesale bans on fraternities are even more questionable in light of the Christian Legal Society decision.  In short, it's an open, untested legal question. 

But beyond that, and more importantly, it's just wrong to wield indiscriminate and blunderbuss disciplinary action against innocent students. 

 

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SFBlue

November 23rd, 2014 at 2:45 PM ^

"It is beyond debate that freedom to engage in association for the advancement of beliefs and ideas is an inseparable aspect of the ‘liberty’ assured by the Due Process Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment, which embraces freedom of speech."  NAACP v. State of Alabama ex. Rel. Patterson, 357 U.S. 449 (1958).

At least we agree that indiscriminate punishment of innocent students is wrong. 

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Sac Fly

November 23rd, 2014 at 3:06 PM ^

They would have to cite a protected interest that's being taken away, which there isn't, because it's only temporary suspension.

This has been argued before and the fraternity lost.

Iota XI Chapter of Sigma Chi Fraternity v. Patterson, 566 F.3d 138 (4th Cir. 2009)

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SFBlue

November 23rd, 2014 at 5:38 PM ^

Yes, it depends on the specific facts and nature of the suspension.  If related to an investigation by UVA, and limited in scope, it probably passes Constitutional muster, even it it is, in fact, unfair. 

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dnak438

November 23rd, 2014 at 3:05 PM ^

of violent assault.

Are the fraternities really being punished? Maybe, but it doesn't seem like that big of a deal to me.

Sure, people have the right to associate. They don't have the legal right to associate with the University, though, do they?

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justingoblue

November 23rd, 2014 at 5:43 PM ^

If what they're doing is suspending the governing bodies within UVA pending investigation that's probably the right thing to do.

If they're pulling funds for anything or kicking students out of houses or earmarked dorms I don't think that's right unless they have some solid evidence that the chapter itself is engaging in a coverup (or that the person they're punishing is guilty of course).

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gbdub

November 23rd, 2014 at 1:17 PM ^

That might be a little far, but certainly the entire Greek system (sororities included) has done a lot to normalize the "get plastered and have casual sex (and other stuff you wouldn't do sober)" culture that, at worst, leads to the stuff in the Rolling Stone article, but at best still results in an awful lot of regretted encounters that hurt people, even if they don't rise to the level of criminality.

Greeks aren't the only ones that have wild house parties, but they've institutionalized (with the implicit approval of the universities) the behavior and are thus the best first place to start in eradicating it.

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scarlet_lettered

November 23rd, 2014 at 5:55 PM ^

They did sociological research.  Actually one of the best academics working on these issues is a Michigan professor, Elizabeth Armstrong.  You can click on  the link to see her research biography listing those articles.  

You can find citations for the statistics they quoted in this article: Foubert, J. D., Newberry, J. T., & Tatum, J. L. (2007). Behavior differences seven months later: Effects of a rape prevention program on first-year men who join fraternities. NASPA Journal, 44, 728-749.

Hope you find that helpful.  It's worthwhile to have a serious discussion about this.

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gbdub

November 23rd, 2014 at 1:06 PM ^

Serious question: is it a title IX violation to exclude the sororities from this suspension? Even if it isn't, is it a good idea? Because it would appear that, while the sororities weren't providing the perpetrators, they'd almost have to be aware of this and contributing to the culture at UVa that apparently normalized this behavior and discouraged victims from speaking up.

UVa's entire Greek system would appear to be rotten, if these allegations are true, and probably needs to be razed to start over. Saving half of it just kicks the can down the road.

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ziggolfer

November 23rd, 2014 at 1:29 PM ^

So that's what I bring to the table

Banning fraternities will place a temporary fix on this problem. However, secret male orginizations with different names or themes (dinner clubs for instance) will re-form and continue doing what they want to do. Having national fraternities linked to these clubs allows some form of identification and control. Several of the Ivy's realized this same behavior (Yale) and allowed national fraternities return to their school. You have to live down south or in a wealthy society world to understand maybe. Don't jump on this bandwagon and think all will be saved. chances are these fraternities will rise again and do what they want.

Michigan greek life is extremely well run, and I think removing fraternities could cause similar problems here. Heck what we have is so mild compared to even other schools in the area; we should be praized. 

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andre10

November 23rd, 2014 at 2:34 PM ^

Did you even read the article? The current oversight provided by universites over greek life is a joke.

Sure, people might form secret organizations, but in order to grow to any degree they'd have to add more members....which would lead to discovery of the groups, and the prompt suspension/expulsion of the members.

At that point, joining a secret male organization would become more trouble than it's worth, and they'd fade away. 

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ziggolfer

November 23rd, 2014 at 3:41 PM ^

Great way to start off an argument. Can't think of a more eloquent and even internet appropriate interjection.

In case you didn't notice the article discusses that objectification of women is a collegiate cultural problem not just a greek one
"They're echoing that message and that culture that's around them: the objectification and degradation of women."

Read more: http://www.rollingstone.com/culture/features/a-rape-on-campus-20141119#ixzz3JvU1ozMi 
Follow us: @rollingstone on Twitter | RollingStone on Facebook
 

 

Moreover, I'm guessing you don't know anyone who attended UVA or any of the schools I mentionned. I'm guessing you never were inside a GDI house like I was where a rape happended. Finally by ignorant, short, and double worded response , I'm guessing you don't know a victim of assault like I do. Grow up "bro"

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double blue

November 23rd, 2014 at 4:00 PM ^

A rape in a GDI house ? No, that can't be true. They must have secretly been a member of a fraternity. You know bill Cosby was in a fraternity. He says its all their fault.



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andre10

November 23rd, 2014 at 4:38 PM ^

I did, in fact, happen to notice that the article portrays sexual assault as a phenomenon that exists independently of greek life. I also noticed this part:  "Studies have shown that fraternity men are three times as likely to commit rape". 


So  while it is obvious that sexual assault happens outside of the greek context (a point neither myself nor anyone else was disputing) , frat bros are far more likely the commit rape, because even ones that don't encourage gang rape as an initiation ritual have plenty of misogyny baked into the system. 

In any case, none of that was present in my comment, which was about how supposed oversight of frats is a joke (see: this article, where the system did nothing or next to nothing to numerous and systemic sexual assaults from the greek system, and in fact did plenty to protect them).

I don't know why it would matter if I knew someone that went to one of those schools or not (although I do) or that you knowing a victim of sexual assault somehow invalidates my opinion if I did not (I know several, victimized in both greek and non-greek situations, and I find it incredibly offensive that you would try to wave their experiences in my face like a badge of authority).

Please try to read this post more carefully than you did my last one.

 


 

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ziggolfer

November 23rd, 2014 at 5:43 PM ^

You oppened yourself up and encouraged the attack when you ignorantly stated that nationwide fraternity oversight was the issue. Once you state something innaccurate and unsupported, you lose all credibility and open yourself up to person attack. In a large manner, this manner exists at a few schools, but kicking these orginizations off campus won't do any good if they secretly stick around (See ZBT and SAE fraternities at UofM). Secondly, you keep referencing the same article, which by all accounts is well written, but it is best to consider more than one arugment and data soruce. In science you learn that correlation does not equal causation.

Just beacuse this study reports that fraternity men have been found 3x more likely to commit rape does not necissarlily mean that actually is true. I'm not going to explain why correlation does not equal causation. however, it is much easeir to identify them than anyone else. Hence why it can be easier to identify fraternities if they have a national connecton. It does without a doubt show that fraternity orginizations are more likely to be identified, targeted, and prosecuted. In contrast fraternities and pledges at Yale (as mentionned in the article) were secret until the last 2 years. Hence the school and the study had no way to identify them until after the national orginizations and "fraternities" were re-instated.

The more control over these bodies the better. UVA has a cultural problem rooted in its administration, students, and alumni that enables fraternity members (and drug dealers) to perform this behavior. I apologize to you and any of your friends and family who were affected by the shams who carried out these actions. 

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gwkrlghl

November 23rd, 2014 at 1:39 PM ^

Not sure if cancelling all frat activities is precisely the right answer, but in the face of those allegations I don't know that UVA had much choice. Hopefully this results in some real change and not just a big CYA for UVA

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dnak438

November 23rd, 2014 at 1:53 PM ^

But I worry that it will be merely for show.

Some faculty members at UVA are certainly getting their torches and pitforks at the ready: http://www.cavalierdaily.com/blog/on-sexual-assault-letters-from-the-co…

tl;dr:

Heads should roll, criminals should be named and brought to justice, and efforts to radically reform the culture around here should take center stage. This is a moral disaster of the first magnitude, not just a temporary PR glitch. At moments like this, I am embarrassed to be a professor at the University of Virginia.

I'm attaching a brief article I wrote for the Cav Daily back in the late '90s, calling for the abolition of the Greek system in favor of an expanded network of residential colleges, like Brown and Hereford. Back then I accused the Greek system of being alcohol-sodden, elitist, and anti-intellectual — i.e., a system that really should have no place at a university with pretensions to seriousness, let alone greatness — but, alas, it now turns out that I was barely scratching the surface of the moral turpitude of this shoddy tradition.

It's time to get serious about this. Forget about conferences and white papers. We need decisive action, and we need it now.

Yours,

John D. Arras

Porterfield Professor of Biomedical Ethics

Professor of Philosophy

Associate Professor of Public Health Sciences

University of Virginia

U.S. Presidential Commission on Bioethics

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ziggolfer

November 23rd, 2014 at 2:14 PM ^

It seems like she gets what the problem is and gets that there are a lot of factors at play. 

 

Looking at this from a michigan standpoint, I think we benefit greatly from not having an in-state as rooted as UVA. That said, our residents are not the same as Virgina. But as again my experience tells me, in state students who are below UVA's standards usually "Know people" who can get them into the school. This kind of person maybe the worst you want at your school.
I know many who attended this school none of whom are from its native virginia. However, all were a part of greek life and never mentionned anything about such activity. I imagine after reading this first article that this behavior is more common amongst the true Virginian's world. Very sad and hopefully very solvable. I think some new blood and more academic students from across the nation may solve some of the state-sponsored problems that now plaque Thomas Jefferson's pride. 

 

To complicate matters more, let's remember that UVA president Teresa Sullivan started as UofM's provost before 2010. hopefully, she is doing some good as a lot of these stories seem post her presidency. 

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You Only Live Twice

November 23rd, 2014 at 1:55 PM ^

He asked her to a frat party as his date and she said yes.  She was a freshman from a small town and a stellar achiever in high school.  She was thrilled to be dating the handsome frat boy and bought a new dress for the occaision. 

She accepted to attend the party, she accepted the drink.  When he took her hand and whispered in her ear that they should go upstairs where it was quieter, she consented to that, maybe she thought it would be romantic, maybe she was ready for a casual encounter.  It really doesn't matter as so far no crime has been committed. 

Here is what is relevant.  Here is what she didn't consent to.

She didn't consent to be ambushed in a dark room and pushed down on a bed by 7 assailants who beat her bloody when she tried to fight them off.  She didn't consent to the gang rape that followed as they ignored her screaming in pain and crying for them to stop.  Is anyone out there with a daughter feeling like some "men" need to be castrated yet?  The 7th guy was apparently a classmate of hers who seemed ashamed, temporarily but as the Brothers taunted him about not being able to get it up, he shoved a bottle inside her instead.

She didn't consent to being the victim of a violent crime by violent criminals who evidently... surprise of surprises... repeat the pattern over and over and acquire a long list of victims, some of whom are found dead.

Violent crime needs to be prosecuted and treated like violent crime.  University reputations be damned.

 

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