January 17th, 2014 at 10:36 PM ^
January 17th, 2014 at 10:38 PM ^
January 17th, 2014 at 10:38 PM ^
The consensus opinion on this board is that Dumars should have chosen Burke over KCP in the draft. I'm not arguing against that. Would have been awesome to have him in Motown.
I am interested in hearing your opinions on why KCP can't be a successful player with the Pistons and do good things for us. He has all the tools necessary, and is a quality guy with a good head on his shoulders. He's shown some good things in spurts so far. This is just his rookie season, after all.
Thoughts?
January 17th, 2014 at 11:26 PM ^
Burke is the better player.
Then you take the guys you traded to get Jennings and go get a SG and the Pistons would be a better team, plain and simple.
Hell, and they should've signed Andre Iguodala IMO, do that and trade for a REAL SF (sorry Josh Smith) and you're talking about a solid team in the weak East.
I have no idea cap wise if this would work...I assume no, but this lineup
Drummond
Monroe
Deng
Iguodala
Burke
is way better than the POS lineup the Pistons are rolling out today.
Even if you take Deng out and trade Knight and draft picks for a lesser SF, it's still better.
January 17th, 2014 at 11:32 PM ^
Trey Burke and a bunch of scrubs who won 1 game out of 12 while he was injured were 21 points better than the Pistons at the Palace.
January 18th, 2014 at 9:05 AM ^
The sad thing is, the lineup you propose would have been possible AND would be less expensive than the one we currently have.
January 17th, 2014 at 11:28 PM ^
The thing is, he's not Trey Burke!
January 17th, 2014 at 11:46 PM ^
January 18th, 2014 at 12:03 AM ^
Joe Dumars? Oh, you mean that guy who I think should be fired if the Pistons don't make the playoffs, or make the playoffs with a sub .500 record? Or who, I think if he doesn't do something about the Greg Monroe, Josh Smith redundancy, should probably be fired? That Joe Dumars?
Don't mistake me always defending against idiotic arguments concerning Joe Dumars with me always defending Dumars. If the season ended today and I were in charge I'd can his ass and not lose a wink of sleep.
You can however, feel free to keep misrepresenting my positions on things without even the slightest understanding of what they are though. It's a free country afterall.
January 18th, 2014 at 12:32 AM ^
Whoa, whoa. I must have just equated with your defense of the KCP pick as defending dumars, so I apologize. I was just amused because it seems like pistons threads are mostly people arguing against you. No malice meant.
January 18th, 2014 at 12:50 AM ^
Not to be an ass, but (as has even been pointed out by people who actually don't particularly like me) I'm not the one who starts shit in those threads. I merely respond to people's fallacious arguments. I mean, I've always said to anyone accusing me of hating Burke or saying the Pistons shouldn't draft him that they should look up the MGoBlog NBA Draft thread...
Here is the VERY first post in that thread. It's by yours truly:
I'm kind of not so secretly hoping for a Michigan double dip draft for the Pistons. Both guys probably won't fall to those spots though. I feel like all of the talk about Trey slipping to 14 or whatever is just a bunch of smoke from some team (maybe even the Pistons) hoping to poison the well on him a little bit so he falls a few extra spots.
Then WolvinLa2 was talking about where Burke should get drafted and I said:
In a sane and rational world there is no way he falls to 8, but the NBA operates on an entirely different plane of existence. There is no way the Pelicans should pass up on him. He would be perfect to run pick and rolls with Brow for the next 15 years, and could revitalize Eric Gordon's career. The Kings have been parading out a myriad of point guard-like substances for the past few seasons with no real point guard. If they want DeMarcus Cousins to realize his ridiculous potential they need someone who can get him the ball in his spots. I'm banking on both of those teams continuing to be ridiculously stupid though.
Here is basically a summary of my "Holy shit the Pistons might actually have a shot at drafting Burke!" posts...
OMG WE COULD GET BURKE! SCREW THIS UP KINGS!
BURKE! BURKE! BURKE! BURKE! DON'T YOU DARE FUCK THIS UP JOE DUMARS! DON'T YOU DARE!
THE TENSION IS KILLING ME! OMG NOEL TO THE 76ERS! WHAT IS GOING ON? DRAFT TREY BURKE!
Burke doesn't get selected by the Pistons...
BUUUUUUUUUUUURRRRRRRRRRRRKKKKKKKKKKKEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!! NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
So does this mean they haven't given up on Brandon Knight at point guard? I would think so. Kentavious Caldwell Pope isn't a bad pick. He was probably the most underrated player in college basketball last year.
How dare his parents not name him Pentavious Caldwell Pope. I wanted to make PCP jokes. As in, was Joe Dumars high on PCP when he passed on Burke?
Joe D, come on, trade Brandon Knight for Trey. You know you want to. You can totally redeem yourself.
I then started to basically say, "Hey guys, I know we all hate Joe D right now, but KCP might be a pretty good player and maybe we should give him a chance, you know?" Which was met by a great deal of scorn...
Calm down, mugs. No need to hate on Caldwell-Pope info. The dude didn't draft himself....but I guess we're going full on RCMB couch burning mode.
I just hope the media doesn't attack Caldwell-Pope for not being Trey Burke, or hell, do it, and maybe it will light a fire under his ass.
It's funny how narratives are created. If you listen to enough MGoIdiots, I hate Burke, and want to be Joe Dumars' boyfriend. Then you learn the truth of the matter and find out, hey, that wasn't even remotely close to being true. The thread, just in case anyone doubts me: http://mgoblog.com/mgoboard/nba-draft-open-thread-not-ot-yay
January 18th, 2014 at 12:53 AM ^
January 18th, 2014 at 1:16 AM ^
Nah, it's cool. The whole "TheLastHoke hates Trey Burke" thing has always been doubly embarrassing for people pushing it IMO.
For one, I'm one of the few people on this blog who actually likes basketball more than football.
For two, I'm one of the few people on this blog who actually likes the NBA more than college ball.
For three, I'm one of the few people on this blog who loves the Pistons and watches every game regardless of whether they are great or totally unwatchable.
So would it not stand to reason that I, more than anyone else, would stand to benefit from the Pistons drafting Burke?
I mean, even if you assume Burke was going to be a bust, I would be right there, the whole voyage, going down as captain of the Burke/Pistons ship.
The whole thing is laughable to me. Then again it's also fairly indicative of the tenor of discussion on the blog. If you're one of those "in the middle" types who have nuanced opinions on things, people will try to paint you in one corner or the other, regardless.
I think Joe D has done a lot of great things. I think he has done a lot of horrible things. I can understand his logic regardless. For example, with regard to CV and BG. He wanted to make BG microvave 2.0. He also wanted to make CV
Sheed 2.0. I can see the thought process behind it. It just failed horribly.
I also acknowledge that he has made some great draft picks. Andre Drummond might end up being one of the 5 best players in the NBA and the best big. He's been one of the 15 best players in the NBA so far this year and he just turned 20. I'm sorry, but you have to give Joe a great deal of credit for drafting him when so many other teams passed on him.
Greg Monroe was another homerun.
I was none too thrilled about the Josh Smith signing.
I'm leaning towards fire Joe Dumars at this point, but I have opinions and people are going to paint me in one corner or another. It is what it is.
January 18th, 2014 at 1:20 AM ^
Also a bigger basketball fan. I have been a die hard Pistons fan, but I started to watch less as the Pistons deteriorated after the Iverson trade. Even the tearing the team up for cap space can be questioned, seeing what Aaron Afflalo is today. Hindsight, I know, but he was always a solid defender and rotation piece. Obviously the cap space was misspent on BG and CV. Drummond and Monroe were great picks, and even drafting Darko got us a championship season. I think Smith and Jennings are shooters with some documented attitude issues, and changing that starts with the culture presented by Mo Cheeks. I don't know if he can change these players, so I would rather have Burke and perhaps used the pick plus Knight for a shooting guard. I'll give KCP a chance, but I just think Trey Burke is the better pick without question.
Also, you mentioned earlier people think you want to be Dumars boyfriend. I'm sure you could be his boyfriend and still disagree with his drafting record. Just thought of the joke, and it is obviously hilarious. /s
January 18th, 2014 at 1:29 AM ^
I think we are pretty much in agreement on everything.
January 18th, 2014 at 1:53 PM ^
Eh, you shouldn't be allowed to get off that easy. The last time this was being discussed here, you were spewing a bunch of stuff about KCP being superior statistically to Burke, shooting everyone else's opinion down due to "ignoring statistics." You tried to make it about everyone else being emotional over Burke, and acted like you were the rational, analytical one in the thread. In the mean time, your argument was unequivacally wrong, both then and even more clearly now.
It seems you've finally come around though, so welcome to the side of logic and reason.
January 18th, 2014 at 12:42 AM ^
KCP was a horrible pick. Anyone could see that Burke was the better player last year. He willed us to the national championship. KCP didn't have that at Georgia. At least the Palace would be full and not have 200 people there each game.
January 18th, 2014 at 12:58 AM ^
January 18th, 2014 at 1:12 AM ^
A theory was proposed a long time ago how Joe D was so good at winning trades (which, he was) that NBA GMs pretty much decided that they were going to never trade with him. It's actually kind of true when you look at the Pistons trade history after they became extremely successful. The Pistons had the longest non-trade streak in the league, like a ridiculously long period where they made no trades, even though everyone knew that the Pistons needed/wanted to make a trade. In a sense, Joe D might have actually become too successful for his own good.
It's like Masai Ujiri. He's building a rep as a young GM who wins every trade. It stands to reason that in the future, if Masai contacts you with a trade proposal, you might want to ignore it.
January 18th, 2014 at 2:56 AM ^
January 18th, 2014 at 8:35 AM ^
I guess you can't yell at Joe Dumars at the Palace.
http://detroitsportsrag.net/trey-burke-returns-to-the-palace-and-i-get-…
January 18th, 2014 at 11:56 AM ^
January 18th, 2014 at 9:15 AM ^
I find it funny that there are now Michigan fans trying to crap on Burke just to defend Joe Dumars's choices. Now even if you are a Pistons fan first and a Michigan fan second (a terrible choice fwiw), the guy has been an awful GM and inexplicably still has a job.
You know a team is in the dumps when people buy into outlandish rationalizations just to defend the team "it takes 8 years to rebuild in the NBA these days" "you just gotta get lucky with the draft picks" or "it's impossible to win with a young O-Line".
January 18th, 2014 at 11:55 AM ^
Trey>Dumbmars
January 18th, 2014 at 9:55 AM ^
Dumars picks Darko instead of a youthful Carmello.
Dumars picks Kentavious instead of Trey.
'Nuff said.
Dumars continues to try to outsmart common sense and stubbornly refuses to learn from mistakes that are obvious to everyone except himself.
Sheesh!
January 18th, 2014 at 10:34 AM ^
No one thought that would work out. It didn't. At the time he had the same agent as Izzo .
Hmmmm...,
January 18th, 2014 at 12:58 PM ^
should be celebrated for what he did as a player, and for the early moves he made to bring the Pistons the 2004 title.
Beyond that he has made a series of such incredibly bad moves that I just don't see any reason to defend him any more.
KCP is just the latest move that seems to be pretty bad. Sure, could KCP still develop into say an Allan Houston type player? It could happen. Allan Houston sucked his first year too, with pretty similar numbers to KCP. But I won't be holding my breath.
January 18th, 2014 at 10:19 AM ^
only got to see the highlights, but awesome game for trey.
some assists are cheepies where some guy makes a jumper and you get rewarded for giving him the ball. sometimes the basket is created by the pass. trey seems to create a lot of the latter.
the guy is going to average 10 assists for the next decade. i used to love the pistons but when they salary dumped darko (rather than getting the one missing piece that team needed) to resign ben wallace and then did not sign ben wallace i was pretty much done.
drafting trey was a breakaway dunk. dumars turned around and shot a three at the wrong basket.
better start working on that resume joe!