Trey Burke and the Jazz play at the Palace for the first and only time this season. Trey says he is excited to be playing in Michigan again.
Finally, a reason to actually watch a Piston game.
I'm a Jazz fan now. Light 'em up, Burke!
Gotta admit, I'm rooting for them, too. The Pistons simply aren't going anywhere this year.
@#$% you Joe Dumars!
Fu#% Joe D and his moronic draft picks, free agent signings and awful coaching hires.
Hope Burke puts up 30/8/8.
Why stop there? He migh as well have 30/10/10
It's about time for the NBA's first triple-triple.
Dumars has his flaws but his draft picks have been spot on the last 5-6 years.
But with East being as weak as it is they will make the playoffs. Go ham Trey!
Anyone have a link to a free online stream of the local broadcast for us out of towners?
There are a lot more trey fans than there are pistons fans
Hurts. At the time I was okay with losing, and just happy with the awesome run. The more time passes the more I realize how incredible that title would have been and how rare the opportunities are.
Refs were awful...
Adidas sucks. Can WE switch back to Nike?
Here's is the comparison via TeamRankings....
|Avg Score Margin||-6.7||-3.1|
|Pts in Paint/Gm||41.9||51.7|
|Effective FG %||48.1%||48.1%|
|Off Rebound %||25.7%||31.7%|
|Opp Effective FG %||51.1%||51.2%|
|Opp Pts in Paint/Gm||47.4||43.2|
The Fuck Dumars posts are always funny to me. If you're rooting for the Jazz, then you're really not a big Pistons fan, so why do you really care about Dumars?
One could have BEEN a big Pistons fan but is now thoroughly fed up with the Pistons franchise and the moronic personnel decisions made over the past 5+ years. I used to be a diehard Pistons fan. Tonight? i hope they lose 200-0. It's not like they are going anywhere this season, so losing will just help whoever is drafting next year anyway.
If you stopped liking them because they started losing, you were never a diehard fan.
Die Hard does not equal Die Never. No team has my allegiance so much that I could never fire their asses. Not saying that i was ever a huge Pistons fan, but unconditional love does not apply to sports teams.
I used to watch every Pistons game but around 2008 I had enough. JoeD has brought us a championship. But he has single handedly made awful pick after awful pick leading to this crap we currently have in Auburn Hills. Don't tell me about his hands being tied. No one made him sign Ben Gordon , Charlie V, Josh Smith, Jennings. Or his great draft picks.
So you're a bandwagon fan?
For me I stopped watching when they traded Chauncey. I figured why bother paying attention if they were just tanking for a draft pick. Figured I'd pick them up again when they rebuilt. Then they didn't.
That's pretty much when I packed it in too. I figured if they didn't care about winning, then why should I?
I was done once they traded Chauncy for AI, then the team was dead to me when they picked KCP over trey
You weren't a diehard. A diehard means you'll, you know, die rooting and following the team. Which you obviously aren't. You just liked them because they were winning and once you felt that they weren't going to have much a chance for the forseeable future, you dropped them. So why care about Dumars now?
fuck you telling me what kind of fan I am. I don't have to get my fan card from you. I've been supporting the Pistons for decades, long before they won even their first title.
I'll support them again when they stop insulting us with what they are putting out on the floor.
Not telling you who you are a fan of. Just pointing out there's not alot of logic to your rantings
Dumars has lost any ability to make good moves and needs to be fired.
Anything that embarasses Dumars and hastens his firing is therefore a good thing.
Burke + Jazz embarassing the Pistons tonight most likely hastens Dumars firing and is therefore a good thing. It has the added benefit of adding another loss towards a better draft pick in this wasted season as well.
If I thought this team had any ability to be competitive I would root for them. They don't, so I don't. The team is terrible, and the best case scenario is a bad finish that gets them a better pick for the future and hopefully new management to use that pick.
Pretty simple logic.
Unfortunately the East is so filled with terrible teams that being worse that the rest of the crap in the East is tough.
diehard fan - someone who follows and roots for the team to the bitter end, whether it be the highest of highs or the lowest of lows
Your posts do not support your ealier statement of being a diehard Pistons fan. In fact, it's a contradiction to say in the same sentence "I used to be a diehard Pistons fan." That doesn't even make sense.
Being terrible doesn't guarantee you becoming a better team in the future. The lottery is filled with teams that have been perennial losers. Joe D's tenure will take care of itself. Chances are, even if he is fired, whoever we replace him with won't be the one to lead us to an NBA title so it makes little sense to root for the team to lose.
Ok Mr. fan judge. Apparently you know much better than I just how much of a fan of the PIstons I have been throughout my life.
Oh yeah, and if I failed to mention it before, fuck you. Of I didn't fail to mention it before? Oh well, in that case fuck you again then.
That's fine as you saying "fuck you" has no bearing on me whatsoever. What purpose does that really serve over the internet? But I suppose that's probably your "go to" when you get called out for illogical statements. Nice chatting with you.
I don't normally side with posters spewing obscenities, but in this case, it's warranted. Bacon, you sir are an asshole.
As a believer in the total depravity of mankind, I won't disagree with you
I'm with Bacon on this one. Only rooting for teams when they are winning screams bandwagon. And rooting for Dumars/Borges to be fired and openly rooting for each respective to lose are two different things.
I've always found the idea that one is a bandwagon fan if they don't suffer through a team's bullshit to the degree to which other fans expect to be ridiculous. I'm a Lions fan, for example. I always have been and I always will be. I'll also probably be laughing at Lions fans like you all the way to my grave. Call it acceptance, if you will. Or bandwagoning. Who knows.
Monroe and Drummond clearly suck.
Where did I say I was rooting for the Jazz? I'm not really a Pistons fan either though, I just want to see Burke do well.
I missed where you said fuck Dumars
Will I do? @#$% you Joe Dumars.
You know you're allowed to swear on the Internet right? I promise your Mom won't read it
I said fire Dumars. And I'm sure I'll say it again.
I'm cheering against the Pistons because they won't be able to move forward until Dumars is fired.
It's "suck for Luck" to the max.
Joe D's tenure will take care of itself. I don't expect him to be GM much longer, but if he is, it means the Pistons have been making the playoffs. Gotta get lucky to be good in the NBA these days unless your'e the Spurs.
Could get a little case of the yips playing here. Would nice to see him get a hot hand in front of Dumars.
Then Dumars gets fired right after the game.
Right behind the basket on the floor.
drops 50 on them boys. Watching him the other night against the Spurs in those last two minutes was special. Gotta keep beating that horse because Joe D passed on a true point guard that will probably play a decade or longer.
I hope he looks more like he did that last 1:05 than he did the first 46:55. He had a rough game on both ends of the court, though his distribution in the 4th Q was better. I hope Trey has a great game in a loss.
The NY/LAC game on ESPN should also be a good watch - chance to see Crawford, Morris, and Hardaway
It's funny how Blaha hesitates before he says Burke's name.
Not off to a great start for Trey. But that's been pretty normal for him this season.
Pistons off to a solid start. Love Drummond.
TIMMAY FOR 3 IN THE KNICKS GAME :)
Drummond continues to develop his game, he could be special.
He already is special. He has been one of the 15-20 best players in the league this season and he just turned 20.
I've only missed one pistons game all season. I don't know what all this talk about first time watching the pistons is about.
Cuz they aren't a fun team to watch
Only team to win at the Pacers and at the Heat.
I dislike both.
With Manny getting minutes, five M players are in action at the same time in the NBA - cant remember the last time that happened
Trey has gotta work on his defense more than anything else. I've only been able to watch about 5-6 of his games, but he hasn't had a good defensive effort in any of them. Probably the biggest adjustment though going from playing against 4-5 quality PG each season in college to one almost every night in the NBA
I can't bring my self to root against the Pistons so really can't root for Trey this game. I will say Fuck Dumars! I wanted Trey in Detroit and I still don't understand how we could pass on him.
Because they were signing Brandon Jennings.
And Brandon Jennings has been fantastic this season. It really has been the shot selection of Josh Smith that has been the problem.
The Stones are a joke. I am glad about 500 fans attend each game while the Wings have a nearly full to full arena every game. I stopped caring about the stones when Joe D blew up the 2004 team by trading Chauncey. I hope Trey scorre 500 on this joke of a franchise. I won't be watching. There is a college hockey double header on the BTN.
I think it was pretty clear that that core wasn't going to get back over the hump and win anything. I don't mind breaking up the team and trading Chauncey for Iverson. That was solely to clear up cap space. It's what Joe D did with the money that really screwed us up, along with the team being in limbo due to Bill Davidson's passing.
bullcrap....Three plays shows that Joe D is a god damn moron on the level of Matt Millen; Ben Gordon, Charlie V, and Josh Smith. Fuck Dumars. He should have been fired years ago. Anyone who believes otherwise is a complete dumars koolaid drinker.
Uhhh, well two of the signings you just listed are what we did with the money freed up from the Chauncey trade. So I guess you're saying bullcrap to your own statement?
ok, Mrs. Dumars, I would have rather spent that money on a some basketballs than the waste of a roster spot that is Charlie V and Ben Gordon.
Oh Fuck Joe Dumars again.
Where am I defending Dumars? I agreed that signing Charlie V and Ben Gordon were awful decisions. But apparently when I said "what we did with the money freed up from the Chauncey trade really screwed us" doesn't mean that. But by all means, continue to disagree (when you're actually agreeing) with me.
Professor X has a weird condition. He is totally incapable of discerning any sort of nuance. He doesn't understand degrees or caveats. You're either 100% one way or 100% the other way. You have to keep this in mind when engaging in any sort of conversation with him.
I love you too...keep trolling me Hoke (our resident anti-Hoke poster). If you think I only believe in black or white, then you are barking up the wrong tree. I am perhaps the least black and white individual. My main pet peave are black and white people.
I don't know if black and white is your thing or not, but I certainly know that reading comprehension is not.
my publications in the PNAS-USA (and a few other journals) proves that assertion incorrect. Keep swinging.
Then how come you could not seem to grasp that I didn't disagree with you?
God forbin I made a mistake. jesus on a tap dancing cracker.
So then just say, "My bad," own it and move on. Instead you continue to come at the dude when you yourself admit you were in error. It's really weird.
eat me. I would put a bullet in my head if i was normal.
That doesn't seem like a healthy thing to say. I'm here for you if you need to talk.
lol you're the one that overreacted to my post and continued to make the same mistake throughout your posts even when you were confronted about it.
Your statement about BG and CV agrees with his point, but you're trying to appear like you don't think he's right... Interesting.
with and without Trey says all that has to be said about his impact. I know it's old but Dumars is a damn fool for not taking him. His basketball brain and singular desire to win set him apart.
Without their point guard really don't do well
have backups and don't fall off a cliff because they are missing a rookie.
Flagrant 1?!?! What a fucking joke!
Yeah, really awful. Don't see anything wrong with what Stuckey did.
For trey trey
Break the backboard jacking up some more 3's. He shouldn't play in the 2nd half. Those shots are lazy and selfish.
Kanter and Favors are going to be Trey's best friends in Utah. Jazz need to make sure Favors gets re-signed.
has been pretty impressive in the game and a half I've seen him.
Unless something drastically changes, the Josh Smith as a wing experiment has failed. His athleticism is a plus when he's being guarded by PF and he can create more open shots. But when he's being guarded by guys equally athletic as him, he's worthless. Might mean Moose doesn't get re-signed by the Pistons.
Another Dumars genius move!!!! And I thought Kwame stole money.
This game is getting away from the pistons really quickly
Terrible defensively. Mostly on the interior. It'd be one thing if Trey was beating us, but he's having somewhat of a clunker this game. Kanters and the Jazz interior are dominating it.
Zach Lowe wrote a good article on Grantland about the Pistons a couple days ago, titled, "The Pistons Shouldn't Be This Bad."
The big 3 experient hasn't worked.
Mo Cheeks has done a terrible job of coaching and managing minutes.
The have a lot of defensive potential, and a lot of good/potentially good defenders being put in bad spots, which has led to them underperforming mightily on that side of the court.
They have no 4th quarter offense at all what-so-ever.
They probably need to trade either JSmoove or Moose.
Yeah, Mo Cheeks is pretty terrible from what I have seen. And it's sad because I actually think Brandon Jennings could be alot better than what he will be here. No sense of identity on this team.
Burke and the Jazz beatin that ass
Just tuned in. They say Trey had a slow start but he's looking good now. 14 points and 8 assists so far late in the third quarter. KCP has 5 points and 1 assist in fewer minutes. Definitely rooting for Trey tonight.
Yeah his second half >>>>>> first half.
slow of a start. He had a couple of turnovers and wasn't shooting well but he pushed the pace, spread the floor and otherwise helped Utah build a lead.
He shot < 30% in the first half and had 4 turnovers. It was a pretty bad start. His defense was bad too.
Pistons are making it easy for him this half. But Trey sure knows how to put a bad stretch behind him.
Burke's value is in his passing. Scoringwise he has been horribly inefficient early on in his NBA career (shooting below 40% pretty much all year, which is unacceptable).
A lot of guards play many years in the NBA and barely shoot over 40%. Not saying that Burke will be one of those guys -- I believe he will become a mid-40s shooter -- but he certainly isn't the only one with a subpar field goal percentage.
Hell, the guy the Pistons essentially decided they'd rather have running the point -- Brandon Jennings -- is a career 39% shooter, including a robust 37.7% this season. For comparison, Trey is shooting 39.1% early on in his career.
Of all qualified guards (not just point guards) for FG% leaderboards, Trey Burke is 2nd to last in the league in FG%.
That's not just a fact you can swwep under the rug by saying something nebulous like "a lot of guys barely shoot over 40%."
Even adjusting for 3s, he's the 6th worst guard and the 3rd worst point guard.
It is clearly something he needs to improve if he wants his career to go anywhere in the NBA.
Yeah, Burke's field goal percentage stinks right now. No argument there. But he's a rookie, and a guy who missed the first month of the season recovering from a broken finger. He'll improve.
I'd rather have Burke over Brandon Jennings. Jennings has shot over 40% once going into this his 5th NBA season. This is who he is at this point: a guy who can make some passes but takes horrible shots and doesn't seem like much of a leader. Burke still has a lot of time and a proven drive to succeed.
There's also the fact Jennings gets paid three times as much as Burke does, and will for the next few years.
Trey just got the double double. Nine more rebounds for the triple double.
Trey just got the double double. Nine more rebounds for the triple double.
Yeah, he is too small to play in this league.
floater in the lane by Trey. 14 points, 8 assists. Closing on a double double despite a rough start. Everybody in the crowd must be wondering wtf Dumars was smoking when he picked KCP over college player of the year local favorite Trey Burke. Seriously, WTF.
I don't think the phrase "defensive rotation" is in the Pistons' lexicon. It's been that way all year. But hey, at least JSmoove hasn't shot a 3 in awhile. Small victories, right?
is now just dominating. Rebound, drives the length of the court, sweet assist.
Dumars is an idiot. Burke will be ROY
KCP is not some run of the mill player. I think he will be an allstar multiple times. Regardless of who you think we should have drafted.
Somewhere in Europe. There's no premium in the NBA for shooting guards that can't shoot.,,
He can shoot. If youv'e been watching and tracking him this season, you can see he's getting better. But the Pistons are in a "win now" mode so alot of his minutes get swalled by the veterans and the inconsistency in minutes may hurt his development. I certainly wish we had someone other than Mo Cheeks helping him.
He has turned on the shooting in the last month or so. Mo Cheeks was yo-yoing the hell out of his minutes earlier in the year. Young players need stability. As the minutes have become more consistent, so too have his performances.
He's shooting about 54% in January, including 43% from 3, scoring about 10 ppg, and continues to play really good defense for a team that desperately needs help on the perimeter.
By comparison, Burke is shooting about 37% this month (including an attrocious 32% from 3) though his scoring is a bit higher (13.5 ppg) and he's obviously much more of a distributor. I think Burke is the odds-on favorite for ROY, but people are ignoring the fact that he's a volume shooter who isn't particularly good at shooting, which will bite you in the ass over time. Hell, in today's game he shot 17 times+4 FT to get those 20 points, and had 7 TOs for those 12 assists. He's going to put up nice numbers because he's the top scorer and PG who racks up a ton of minutes, but I've been worried about his long-term NBA future simply because the league doesn't have a long history of guys succeeding who are average defenders and mediocre shooters.
Shooting was never Burkes best quality though. He's best when he's in rhythm and running the offense which is something the pistons have not had all year.
I like KCP but not even close to how much I like Burke as a pro prospect. I've never bought into KCP as a legitimate scorer. Maybe he's going to get there but he looks a lot more like a backup on a good team than anything close to an all star. Along with this, the pistons are still short a guy that can run the offense efficiently.
16 points 10 assists 2 rebounds after 3
Double double in 3 quarters ... Attaboy trey!
Why would his fucking feelings be hurt? Jesus christ people are fucking morons. He's not Steve Alford or anything. He's from Columbus and was committed to PSU before switching to Michigan. Other than 2 years at UM what connecton does he have to Detroit that would make him upset about not being drafted?
Numbers but the main reason I wanted Burke was because he has intangibles that Jennings just does not possess. Burke is a born leader and Jennings is all talent and no leadership.
Dumars made 2 fatal moves that should cost him his job this year. 1) hiring Cheeks instead of proven coaches like George Karl and Lionel Hollins, and 2) trading for Jennings instead of drafting Burke.
Not a foul. Ball don't lie.
Pistons stopped playing this game halfway through the 2nd Q.
State grad Piston owner is enjoying watching Burke tonight.
18 points and 11 assists......
I loved Joe D as a player....but maybe its time to get someone else.
LOL. Audible fire Dumars during that freethrow.
I love how Blaha and Kelser have gone from saying how he was choking on it early to singing his praises.
He did have a bad first half.
Blaha especially was quick to highlight a couple of missed shots and turnovers. They know damn well a good game by Trey means more than just a loss.
I can't stand Blaha and it isn't just because he does PBP for Spartan football. I've never enjoyed listening to him and for some reason the way he announces the time ("5 and 42 remaining") drives me up the wall.
was a Michigan grad? ND undergrad, Mich bschool. Traitor. Anyway, I was there last night and the Trey fans were out in full force. It was awesome. Suck it, Joe D.
This game is so frustrating. Playing well the past 2 games, have 5 days off to rest and practice, only to come out and lay a giant egg tonight. What a disappointment.
This team isn't going to get any better until they improve their perimeter defense. Hell, defense period. Just pathetic.
the nba is the worst league ever. completely unwatchable. i would rather dodgeball on the Ocho
You are watching a thing that you hate and commentating about it on the internet. That's weird.
I love you too *Kisses*
i am not even watching this game. I haven't watched a NBA game since 2005. I have the MInnesota/Ohio hockey game on now. At least these athletes don't cry over a hang nail.
You mean you're not watching a thing but feel the need to post a bunch of strongly worded opinions about it on the internet? Sounds about right.
People who bitch about the NBA usually don't watch the marquee games and the teams that play incredibly fun, watchable games.
Same total for Trey and the entire Piston Team.
Good job, Dumars.
He now has more than the pistons have
Can you get ESPN 8 on Comcast?!
Pistons are still terrible. Glad I haven't really watched for many years
The Pistons are letting Jeremy goddamn Evans torch them.
They really need to trade either Josh Smith or Greg Monroe.
Do NOT trade Greg Monroe!
What are they supposed to do trade Andre (never going to happen, ever)?
Trade Josh Smith (no one wants his contract)?
Invest a fuck ton of money in a clearly non-functional big 3 unit for the next 3 or 4 years?
Obviously I would never want to trade Andre. I would try to trade Smith in the offseason. Maybe take on a couple bad contracts and at least get someone who is an actual small forward. Otherwise I would start Singler and use Smith off the bench.
What's the knock on Monroe? I don't watch and thought people were high on him.
Defense. And he is a FA this upcoming offseason. And if he is on the team, Josh Smith is more than likely going to play SF (where he is terrible). And it is more likely that Greg Monroe is movable, while Smith may not be. I'd rather keep Moose, but it's not likely. One needs to go.
The knock on Monroe is that he is an atrocious defender. You are better off having a trash can on the court to guard a stretch 4 on a PnR than Monroe. As gifted as he is offensively, his defense can be so bad at times that it totally negates his O.
People are still really high on him, but Andre is untouchable, and no one wants Josh Smith's contract, and the big 3 are a failed experiment. So Monroe is the odd man out.
And I took the time to log into MGoBlog just to say...
MotherFUCK JOE DUMARS!
And Trey...do you're thing boy! We support you no matter what!
Is about to start posting "small sample size metric stats" to support their argument that KCP is better than Burke.
No metrics here. If you are just going to say better, in general, as in just a better player at what they do- I would say yes, I have full confidence in saying Trey is a better player
And a little something called defense. That being said, it looks like we should have drafted Burke.
Naturally, they're going to be compared because they were back-to-back picks, but they don't play the same position and they're different players. I still think KCP is going to be a good player in this league, but he has a steeper learning curve than Burke. I think intelligent Pistons fans knew that coming in.
Agreed, though it is hard to see tonight. KCP for some reason in my favorite Piston. I have really high hopes for him and I love the athleticism.
Biggest thing that sucks is KCP will be compared to Burke for his entire career at no fault of his own. These guys do play different positions, but Burke has been outplaying this year and was way better tonight. Along with this, the progression of the pistons has gone nowhere or years.
To me KCP looks like an nba player, but more of a rotational guy on a good team. He's crazy athletic, but who cares if he misses a gimme or never can do anything when he gets the ball. His best potential is on the defensive side, but there are still a lot of holes and honestly I'm not sure he will ever be as productive as Burke. Considering that, I just don't see the pick as something to be excited about.
I'm sure The Last Hoke will lead the charge.
I do not know why Jerebko gets no time and Charlie V gets anytime on the court. CV's contract is up at the end of the year and nobody in their right mind is going to trade for him unless they want to clear cap space (but the Pistons couldn't get anything valuable in exchange for him anyways). At least Jonas attempts to play both ends of the court and provides some energy (which this team sorely lacks)
Because Charlie V has a discernible NBA skill?
Well, in that one skill, JJ is vastly outperforming CV on the season.
I would rather have Datome get a lot more minutes.
I would like him to get more time too. Havne't had a personal Pistons cult hero since Walter Hermann. But Luigi and JJ play different positions.
GiGi can play some stretch 4.
It's been a long time since this team has stirred any real emotion in me or a loss really bothered me. Just stale, old, numbing mediocrity. And boredom. I flip past the games and might hang for a few if it's close. Haven't watched this much in quite a while.
Guess that's why it was so easy to root for Trey and not really be concerned who he's doing it to.
"Hey Joe, you wanna trade for my hotdog?"
"No thanks. I'm gonna eat this dead stray cat."
- an 8 year old Joe Dumars at lunch
first Piston game I've watched more than a few minutes of this season. I just can't stand them...their collective team IQ doesn't reach triple digits.
They've actually been a pretty fun team to watch. This was just a particularly bad performance.
If you define choking away games and losing agains terrible opponents as fun, then I agree.
I was more talking about the continued development of what could be potentially the best big in the NBA, Andre Drummond. The team also plays a fast paced style with lots of dunks, alley-oops, steals and blocked shots. I mean, losing is never fun, and every time Josh Smith shoots a three an angel commits seppuku, but they're young and have talent.
It wasn't long ago that some were downplaying Burke's numbers because he played on a "bad" Jazz team while KCP played for the "playoff-bound" Pistons. Well, after tonight the Jazz will be only two games worse than the Pistons in the win column, despite not having Burke for the first month of the season, and playing in a much tougher conference. Burke is legit and I'm sorry, but passing him up looks worse and worse as the season progresses.
20 points 12 assists 3 rebounds. Game over. He sat most of the fourth quarter. He could have been a Piston.
Ohio took a pass on Trey, too.
This is the first Pistons game I've watched in almost a year. I will now wait until they play the Jazz again to watch another.
Tonight I had a solid reason to actually watch a game.
Highlights in SportsCenter in a few...
The consensus opinion on this board is that Dumars should have chosen Burke over KCP in the draft. I'm not arguing against that. Would have been awesome to have him in Motown.
I am interested in hearing your opinions on why KCP can't be a successful player with the Pistons and do good things for us. He has all the tools necessary, and is a quality guy with a good head on his shoulders. He's shown some good things in spurts so far. This is just his rookie season, after all.
Burke is the better player.
Then you take the guys you traded to get Jennings and go get a SG and the Pistons would be a better team, plain and simple.
Hell, and they should've signed Andre Iguodala IMO, do that and trade for a REAL SF (sorry Josh Smith) and you're talking about a solid team in the weak East.
I have no idea cap wise if this would work...I assume no, but this lineup
is way better than the POS lineup the Pistons are rolling out today.
Even if you take Deng out and trade Knight and draft picks for a lesser SF, it's still better.
Trey Burke and a bunch of scrubs who won 1 game out of 12 while he was injured were 21 points better than the Pistons at the Palace.
The sad thing is, the lineup you propose would have been possible AND would be less expensive than the one we currently have.
The thing is, he's not Trey Burke!
So I don't want to read the entire thread, but if I was a betting man, I'd guess thelasthoke was in there valiantly defending dumars.
Joe Dumars? Oh, you mean that guy who I think should be fired if the Pistons don't make the playoffs, or make the playoffs with a sub .500 record? Or who, I think if he doesn't do something about the Greg Monroe, Josh Smith redundancy, should probably be fired? That Joe Dumars?
Don't mistake me always defending against idiotic arguments concerning Joe Dumars with me always defending Dumars. If the season ended today and I were in charge I'd can his ass and not lose a wink of sleep.
You can however, feel free to keep misrepresenting my positions on things without even the slightest understanding of what they are though. It's a free country afterall.
Whoa, whoa. I must have just equated with your defense of the KCP pick as defending dumars, so I apologize. I was just amused because it seems like pistons threads are mostly people arguing against you. No malice meant.
Not to be an ass, but (as has even been pointed out by people who actually don't particularly like me) I'm not the one who starts shit in those threads. I merely respond to people's fallacious arguments. I mean, I've always said to anyone accusing me of hating Burke or saying the Pistons shouldn't draft him that they should look up the MGoBlog NBA Draft thread...
Here is the VERY first post in that thread. It's by yours truly:
I'm kind of not so secretly hoping for a Michigan double dip draft for the Pistons. Both guys probably won't fall to those spots though. I feel like all of the talk about Trey slipping to 14 or whatever is just a bunch of smoke from some team (maybe even the Pistons) hoping to poison the well on him a little bit so he falls a few extra spots.
Then WolvinLa2 was talking about where Burke should get drafted and I said:
In a sane and rational world there is no way he falls to 8, but the NBA operates on an entirely different plane of existence. There is no way the Pelicans should pass up on him. He would be perfect to run pick and rolls with Brow for the next 15 years, and could revitalize Eric Gordon's career. The Kings have been parading out a myriad of point guard-like substances for the past few seasons with no real point guard. If they want DeMarcus Cousins to realize his ridiculous potential they need someone who can get him the ball in his spots. I'm banking on both of those teams continuing to be ridiculously stupid though.
Here is basically a summary of my "Holy shit the Pistons might actually have a shot at drafting Burke!" posts...
OMG WE COULD GET BURKE! SCREW THIS UP KINGS!
BURKE! BURKE! BURKE! BURKE! DON'T YOU DARE FUCK THIS UP JOE DUMARS! DON'T YOU DARE!
THE TENSION IS KILLING ME! OMG NOEL TO THE 76ERS! WHAT IS GOING ON? DRAFT TREY BURKE!
Burke doesn't get selected by the Pistons...
So does this mean they haven't given up on Brandon Knight at point guard? I would think so. Kentavious Caldwell Pope isn't a bad pick. He was probably the most underrated player in college basketball last year.
How dare his parents not name him Pentavious Caldwell Pope. I wanted to make PCP jokes. As in, was Joe Dumars high on PCP when he passed on Burke?
Joe D, come on, trade Brandon Knight for Trey. You know you want to. You can totally redeem yourself.
I then started to basically say, "Hey guys, I know we all hate Joe D right now, but KCP might be a pretty good player and maybe we should give him a chance, you know?" Which was met by a great deal of scorn...
Calm down, mugs. No need to hate on Caldwell-Pope info. The dude didn't draft himself....but I guess we're going full on RCMB couch burning mode.
I just hope the media doesn't attack Caldwell-Pope for not being Trey Burke, or hell, do it, and maybe it will light a fire under his ass.
It's funny how narratives are created. If you listen to enough MGoIdiots, I hate Burke, and want to be Joe Dumars' boyfriend. Then you learn the truth of the matter and find out, hey, that wasn't even remotely close to being true. The thread, just in case anyone doubts me: http://mgoblog.com/mgoboard/nba-draft-open-thread-not-ot-yay
Nah, I believe you. Plus I can understand you approaching the post with anger after arguing with Professor x. Again, meant in jest, I just seemed to remember you being in a lot of pistons debates.
Nah, it's cool. The whole "TheLastHoke hates Trey Burke" thing has always been doubly embarrassing for people pushing it IMO.
For one, I'm one of the few people on this blog who actually likes basketball more than football.
For two, I'm one of the few people on this blog who actually likes the NBA more than college ball.
For three, I'm one of the few people on this blog who loves the Pistons and watches every game regardless of whether they are great or totally unwatchable.
So would it not stand to reason that I, more than anyone else, would stand to benefit from the Pistons drafting Burke?
I mean, even if you assume Burke was going to be a bust, I would be right there, the whole voyage, going down as captain of the Burke/Pistons ship.
The whole thing is laughable to me. Then again it's also fairly indicative of the tenor of discussion on the blog. If you're one of those "in the middle" types who have nuanced opinions on things, people will try to paint you in one corner or the other, regardless.
I think Joe D has done a lot of great things. I think he has done a lot of horrible things. I can understand his logic regardless. For example, with regard to CV and BG. He wanted to make BG microvave 2.0. He also wanted to make CV
Sheed 2.0. I can see the thought process behind it. It just failed horribly.
I also acknowledge that he has made some great draft picks. Andre Drummond might end up being one of the 5 best players in the NBA and the best big. He's been one of the 15 best players in the NBA so far this year and he just turned 20. I'm sorry, but you have to give Joe a great deal of credit for drafting him when so many other teams passed on him.
Greg Monroe was another homerun.
I was none too thrilled about the Josh Smith signing.
I'm leaning towards fire Joe Dumars at this point, but I have opinions and people are going to paint me in one corner or another. It is what it is.
Also a bigger basketball fan. I have been a die hard Pistons fan, but I started to watch less as the Pistons deteriorated after the Iverson trade. Even the tearing the team up for cap space can be questioned, seeing what Aaron Afflalo is today. Hindsight, I know, but he was always a solid defender and rotation piece. Obviously the cap space was misspent on BG and CV. Drummond and Monroe were great picks, and even drafting Darko got us a championship season. I think Smith and Jennings are shooters with some documented attitude issues, and changing that starts with the culture presented by Mo Cheeks. I don't know if he can change these players, so I would rather have Burke and perhaps used the pick plus Knight for a shooting guard. I'll give KCP a chance, but I just think Trey Burke is the better pick without question.
Also, you mentioned earlier people think you want to be Dumars boyfriend. I'm sure you could be his boyfriend and still disagree with his drafting record. Just thought of the joke, and it is obviously hilarious. /s
I think we are pretty much in agreement on everything.
Eh, you shouldn't be allowed to get off that easy. The last time this was being discussed here, you were spewing a bunch of stuff about KCP being superior statistically to Burke, shooting everyone else's opinion down due to "ignoring statistics." You tried to make it about everyone else being emotional over Burke, and acted like you were the rational, analytical one in the thread. In the mean time, your argument was unequivacally wrong, both then and even more clearly now.
It seems you've finally come around though, so welcome to the side of logic and reason.
KCP was a horrible pick. Anyone could see that Burke was the better player last year. He willed us to the national championship. KCP didn't have that at Georgia. At least the Palace would be full and not have 200 people there each game.
a jawdropper on how a GM can go from one of the bright young masterminds in the NBA to an absolute dufus in the second half of his tenure. Outside of Drummond, I can't recall one move he has made that has been a definitive positive for the organization. The decision to pass up on Trey, and literally showing up at Josh Smith's doorstep 1 minute past the trade deadline just convinces me that he didn't learn a thing since the Charlie V and Ben Gordon blunders. It also doesn't help that Gores stupidly mandated a playoffs or else ultimatum (basically) so Joe tries saving his ass and playing for the 8 seed, opposed to tanking in the best NBA draft since '03. And no, we don't retain our first round pick this year if it ends up in the top 8. This franchise is in no man's land.
A theory was proposed a long time ago how Joe D was so good at winning trades (which, he was) that NBA GMs pretty much decided that they were going to never trade with him. It's actually kind of true when you look at the Pistons trade history after they became extremely successful. The Pistons had the longest non-trade streak in the league, like a ridiculously long period where they made no trades, even though everyone knew that the Pistons needed/wanted to make a trade. In a sense, Joe D might have actually become too successful for his own good.
It's like Masai Ujiri. He's building a rep as a young GM who wins every trade. It stands to reason that in the future, if Masai contacts you with a trade proposal, you might want to ignore it.
as u could assume.. because of Trey Burke. He smoked the Pistons.. and it was great to see the crowd constantly cheer Burke on. I saw so much Michigan gear at the Palace and so many signs people made thanking Burke for his play at Michigan. Man, it hurts bad knowing we could have had him. Pistons would be better off and promoting Burke would be huge for the franchise. Blahh I want Trey back : (
I guess you can't yell at Joe Dumars at the Palace.
I find it funny that there are now Michigan fans trying to crap on Burke just to defend Joe Dumars's choices. Now even if you are a Pistons fan first and a Michigan fan second (a terrible choice fwiw), the guy has been an awful GM and inexplicably still has a job.
You know a team is in the dumps when people buy into outlandish rationalizations just to defend the team "it takes 8 years to rebuild in the NBA these days" "you just gotta get lucky with the draft picks" or "it's impossible to win with a young O-Line".
Dumars picks Darko instead of a youthful Carmello.
Dumars picks Kentavious instead of Trey.
Dumars continues to try to outsmart common sense and stubbornly refuses to learn from mistakes that are obvious to everyone except himself.
Drafted Mateen Cleaves as alottery pick (sane year as Crawford but after him).
No one thought that would work out. It didn't. At the time he had the same agent as Izzo .
should be celebrated for what he did as a player, and for the early moves he made to bring the Pistons the 2004 title.
Beyond that he has made a series of such incredibly bad moves that I just don't see any reason to defend him any more.
KCP is just the latest move that seems to be pretty bad. Sure, could KCP still develop into say an Allan Houston type player? It could happen. Allan Houston sucked his first year too, with pretty similar numbers to KCP. But I won't be holding my breath.
only got to see the highlights, but awesome game for trey.
some assists are cheepies where some guy makes a jumper and you get rewarded for giving him the ball. sometimes the basket is created by the pass. trey seems to create a lot of the latter.
the guy is going to average 10 assists for the next decade. i used to love the pistons but when they salary dumped darko (rather than getting the one missing piece that team needed) to resign ben wallace and then did not sign ben wallace i was pretty much done.
drafting trey was a breakaway dunk. dumars turned around and shot a three at the wrong basket.
better start working on that resume joe!