OT-UMich classes

Submitted by PrincetonBlue on

I'm currently a junior in high school and am looking to dual-enroll in calculus III.  I'm looking at places like the local community colleges like Schoolcraft and Washtenaw, but I realized I forgot about the most obvious choice of all: Michigan.

Could anyone break down how the cost of classes go?  They say that the cost per credit hour is $661 and I'm not sure what that means.  And also, how well would math credits transfer into UMich from places like Schoolcraft and Washtenaw (Recently legislation that guaranteed transfer credits between Michigan colleges expired, and in the future I'd actually like to go to Michigan)?

Don't worry about admission because for dual enrollment it is different than actually being admitted into the school.

EDIT: In addition, if anyone could give me tips on what teachers to get or avoid that would be nice.

EastCoast Esq.

May 1st, 2014 at 5:44 PM ^

You might want to contact a school administrator for details rather than rely on a sports message board. Maybe somebody will provide a helpful link, but this definitely isn't the first place I would look for program details.

uminks

May 2nd, 2014 at 12:57 PM ^

If your going to be an engineer with advanced degrees you are just getting started by getting through Calculus and DE. But you will be ahead of most per-engineering students. Way back when I was in High School, our highest math class was an AP trig-precalculus class. Now a days many high schools offer Calc II.

Wolverine In Iowa

May 2nd, 2014 at 5:06 PM ^

CSB time - I took some honors calc class at U-M, and no one, I mean no one, in the class could understand a goddamned word the TA was saying.  She was Chinese.  Someone in the class raised holy hell, and we had the CHAIRMAN of the math department teaching our class from then on out.

caliblue

May 2nd, 2014 at 10:19 PM ^

was a perfectly awful teacher, but i have difficulty thinking that a high school student should take honors calc 2nd year as a first class whether taught by a professor or not. That would be some competition. I was a 3.69 BS in chem and 215 was my hardest class by a mile. Even Pchem was easy by that milestone. DiffiQs was much more fun !

Elwood

May 1st, 2014 at 10:10 PM ^

Better instruction. All around a better experience. Also, I wouldn't worry too much about grading if you're in HS. I took 285 and it was a lot better than 215 from my friends' experiences. If you want to really understand college level math, take a class like 489 (mathematical logic) or 312/412 (modern algebra)

MichiganTeacher

May 1st, 2014 at 8:14 PM ^

I'm ancient ('93) but yeah, I agree. IIRC I took 186/285/286, and it seemed much better (harder, but more useful, and definitely more 'real' math) than the 115/116/215/216 series. I'm kind of surprised that the numbering system is still the same.

UM2k1

May 1st, 2014 at 5:53 PM ^

Have you taken calc I & II as dual enroll? I'm pretty sure those will be pre-reqs as college courses. I remember during my orientation, I had to test into calc II even though I had taken calc I dual-enroll while in HS (and the credits were transferring in).

UM2k1

May 1st, 2014 at 6:01 PM ^

Also, to answer your question regarding cost; calc classes were 4 credits when I was there, so it would cost you $2,644 for the class (assuming the $661/ch is correct).



You should know too, UM math courses were typically during the day (8-4), so it might be difficult to attend. When I did dual-enroll it was through a community college, which typically offer evening courses for working people (unlike UM).

WolvinLA2

May 1st, 2014 at 8:01 PM ^

It may have changed in the last 10 years, but I took Calc BC in high school, got a 5 on the AP test, and they started me in Calc 2 at Michigan.  After getting a 5 on the AP test, I got a B+ in Calc 2, so although I was certainly prepared for it, it wasn't a breeze or anything (like the AP test was).  

Just as a reference to the difficulty of college courses vs. AP tests.

Stewart52

May 2nd, 2014 at 9:15 AM ^

I think it just depends. I took Calc BC and got a 5 on the AP test, but when I started at Michigan in Fall 2008 I went into Math 256. If I remember correctly I could've gone into Calc 3 but because it was honors applied and because I wanted to start off with a solid GPA I chose Calc 2. I don't think there's a standard procedure for which class you have to go into and both calc 2 and 3 are options.

WolverBean

May 2nd, 2014 at 2:00 PM ^

(jeezus, that long?) I took Calc BC jr year of HS, took calc 216 my sr year of hs and aced it, then took 285 instead for calc III and it kicked my ass big time. (note: you can take calc III and IV in either order: they're both offered both semesters, and they don't really built off each other). My problem with 285 was mostly that it involved actually doing proofs, which I'm terrible at. I can solve equations, but justifying them? That's why I'm an engineer and not a mathematician. But I think everyone's mileage varies. People will encourage you to take the honors section because you're young and bright and people always encourage young bright students to challenge themselves (as they should). But which version of calc you take isn't just about how "smart" you are. Each version has a different focus. Take whichever version has the approach that seems most relevant to you. (That's general advice for choosing college courses, not just for calculus.) That might be honors, or might not be.

And don't worry about all the college kids looking at you funny. I was nervous that I'd stick out like a sore thumb as the obvious high school smartypants kid in a room full of college kids, but it turns out that it isn't that obvious, and the kids who do notice don't really care. Heck, I found out 3/4 of the way thru the semester that there was another HS kid in my class, and even I hadn't noticed.

Also, one thing that may or may not be a problem for you: the semester break at Michigan probably doesn't align with the semester break at your high school. I ended up having to leave halfway thru my 6th period class for a month in order to go to calc because the second semester at Michigan started before the first semester at Pioneer ended. HS teachers are usually pretty cool about this kind of thing -- the teachers usually respect the smart kids who are trying to challenge themselves -- but be aware that it could become a problem, and make sure your HS administrators are all on the same page about it.

This is Michigan

May 1st, 2014 at 5:56 PM ^

Don't have an answer, but a junior in high school taking calc III seems to be on an accelerated track. Impressive. I imagine you have already passed the AP exam? 

MLaw06

May 1st, 2014 at 6:54 PM ^

I took AP Calc BC as a junior and got a 5.  That was worth 4 credits when I went to college.  In senior year, I took multivariate calc and AP Statistics (stats was worth 4 credits and multivariate calc was worth none). 

Usually math and science classes are like 4 credits and english/humanities classes are like 3 credits.  I think, in theory, it should match up to how many days a week the class meets (like 4 days a week or 3 days a week).

UMgradMSUdad

May 1st, 2014 at 7:41 PM ^

It is college by college.  My oldest daughter (yes, the Sparty) started at State with 50 credit hours, earned through AP credit.  Almost every university she applied to counted a different number of credit hours. Also, all those credit hours actually ended up making her college costs more expensive (but only slightly more) because at State, tuition was higher for Junior and Senior level courses than Freshman courses, and I believe by her second semester she was ranked as a Junior.  However, she could have graduated in 3 years, which would have been cheaper.  She did have a scholarship that paid for nearly everything though, and it was for 4 years. What it allowed her to do, was to take some classes for fun (to make sure she stayed at fulltime status) her last two years.

MGoBender

May 1st, 2014 at 9:09 PM ^

In senior year, I took multivariate calc and AP Statistics (stats was worth 4 credits and multivariate calc was worth none).

This was going to be my suggestion.  Take AP Stats.  If you want to keep your calc fresh, take calc-based physics class if you can.

Unless you know what you're going to major in in college requires Calc 3, I wouldn't rush into it.  Calculus is overrated.  I say this as a high school math teacher and a person that majored in math at Michigan.  Stats classes are more widely applicable to future careers.

If you know you're going to major in math or engineering, then sure you'll need to take calc 3.  But I would still suggest putting it off if you can explore other options in your senior year of HS.

EDIT: Another calc alternative: AP Computer Science if you have that option.

ryebreadboy

May 1st, 2014 at 6:01 PM ^

Regarding transfer credit, I'd definitely recommend speaking with an academic adviser. A lot of times they only like to give departmental credit unless you have a syllabus showing the course covers all of the same topics. Regarding cost, $661 per credit hour for a 4 credit class = $2644 for the class.



Point of interest, it was only $500 per credit hour back in summer 2006. How about that inflation?

ST3

May 1st, 2014 at 6:02 PM ^

I grew up in East Lansing and was in a similar situation. That was 20+ years ago, so take this with a grain of salt. I went to MSU for 2 calculus classes and differential equations my senior year in high school. When I was admitted to UofM, they converted the 11 MSU credits to 7 UofM credits because at that time, UofM was on semester and MSU was trimester. Skip ahead to my senior year at UofM - they told me that MSU's classes didn't cover something, so they were readjusting my credits from 7 to 6 and requiring me to take a 400 level Math class at UofM. That left me one credit short of graduating, so I ended up taking intro to Geology for 1 credit to graduate on time.

Space Coyote

May 1st, 2014 at 6:32 PM ^

Go the community college route. You can go to Michigan in a few years, and I highly recommend you do, but you're a JR in high school, I think your best bet is saving the money, doing something that is probably better suited for your schedule, and something closer to in between what you'll eventually see in college and what you're currently seeing now as a high school student.

Basically what I'm saying is I'm old and school costs a lot and now that I've finished school I respect how much it costs.

TESOE

May 1st, 2014 at 11:45 PM ^

lmgtfy - I will save you the snide links...

 

This may not format well...

xfer credit to Michigan is here...

http://www.ugadmiss.umich.edu/TCE/Public/CT_TCESearch.aspx

 

Host Institution Host City Host State Type Subject / Crs Nbr Course Title UM Subject UM Cat Nbr Comments Applicable To
WASHTENAW COMMUNITY COLLEGE ANN ARBOR MI CC MTH 293 CALCULUS III MATH DEPT ONLINE MATH COURSES ARE NOT TRANSFERABLE. COURSE EQUIVALENCY EXPIRES AUGUST 3, 2016 AND ANY NEW EVALUATION SHOULD BE SENT THROUGH THE MATH TRANSFER CREDIT WEBSITE: http://www.lsa.umich.edu/math/undergrad/coursesforfreshmen/infinplaceme… LSA, Nurs, Kin, Mus, Art, Ed

Mich Fees

http://ro.umich.edu/tuition/tuition-fees.php

Undergraduate Tuition and Fees
College of Literature, Science & the Arts Michigan Resident Non-Michigan Resident
  Lower Division

(0 - 54 CTP)
Full-Time (12 - 18 credits) $6,474 $20,099
  Part-Time First hour $870 $2,005
  Part-Time Additional Hours $510 $1,645
  Upper Division

(55 or more CTP)
Full-Time (12 - 18 credits) $7,309 $21,518
  Part-Time First hour $940 $2,124
  Part-Time Additional Hours $580 $1,764

WCC fees

http://www.wccnet.edu/studentconnection/tuition/

Slam dunk...WCC is the way... Colleges are going to look at your grades not where you went for basic stuff like this....

Tuition Rate/Fee Chart

(Does not include $7 Technology/Enrollment Fee charged per credit hour)
Number of credits Distance Learning / Online Courses* In District** Out of District*** Out of country or state
1 $94 $91 $146 $193
2 $188 $182 $292 $386
3 $282 $273 $438 $579
4 $376 $364 $584 $772
5 $470 $455 $730 $965
6 $564 $546 $876 $1158

There may be some special deals for HS dual enrolled kids... but c'mon... enjoy HS... no need to push this.

I took a 295/296 series back in the day.  My instructor taught Ted Kaczynski... his name was George Piranian.  He was special as was the class.  I've never again been so rigorous in my math.  George died in 2009 ... RIP.  He had an Erdos number of 1.  Thank you George and thank you Michigan for an incredible ride.

Michigan Arrogance

May 1st, 2014 at 6:33 PM ^

A couple things:

- If you're local to A2, consider WCC- the cost will be WAY less (probably half) and you might find some evening (late afternoon?) courses that fit your schedule a bit better as a HS student.

- if do the UM route, those credits will Xfer anywhere. You're obvsly a fast learner and hard worker being in BC calc as a JR, but UM is a whole different level than AP courses- the structure and contact time is WAY different and the instructor won't be spending a week or 2 on the basics- more like 1-2 lectures. The learning is on you, not the teacher (unlike HS). Short story: Math 215 at UM is what I'd recommend. The honors courses are great, but 215 is a fine course and surely will have more scheduling options.

- contact an advisor, obvs

 

PS: if you have any physics experience, the vector stuff will help a bunch in Calc III

Rosey09

May 1st, 2014 at 8:05 PM ^

I agree with considering another school to take Calc III than Michigan. I don't think taking the course there was worth the extra cost that you'd pay compared to a local community college. Just make sure that wherever you take the class will give you credit that can transfer to where you'd like to go.

I'm sure you've already done this, but I'd also look into how much math you'll need to take for the majors you're considering. I was a chemical engineer at Michigan that came in with BC Calc credit and was able to knock math out in my freshman year before I even started taking classes in my concentration because we only needed to take up to Differential Equations.