That's a really, really ugly story, but I wonder if the line at the very end isn't correct. Brent's behavior seems pretty head injury-ish to me (as a non-doctor).
OT: Ugly situation in Dallas Cowboy player's death about to get even worse
or a mixture of utter shock and alcohol. Or a combination of all three.
I don't think this is a new development either, since I heard it a few days ago?
Everyone is a loser here, no matter what... Easy as that.
Ok I can't pass judgment on anybody who acts or fails to act in an extreme situation until I experience it myself.
You can definitely be judged for ending up in that situation though.
That is a situation that never needed to take place and was totally avoidable. Unfortunately I've been affected by situations like this through the loss of two friends to drunk drivers. He's a millionaire. Call a nice limo to pick you up. Stories like this one really bothers me.
Perhaps I'm wrong, but I believe the NFL set up a hotline in recent years that any NFL player can call and get a complimentary cab if he's been drinking. I think I read an article about that a couple years ago, but the facts might be a little hazy.
Even if it's not free for NFL players, nobody should be driving drunk, period.
It is possible, perhaps likely, that players are wary of using that hotline for fear of by doing so they would be getting their names added to some kind of "list" that the Commissioner's office maintains for the sake of holding leverage over anyone whose name makes it on there.
That doesn't excuse drunk driving, and God knows being arrested and/or killing someone is worse than being put on the "naughty" list to be fined at a later date, but with the climate of intimidation that Roger Goodell has put into play since taking over, it doesn't surprise me that players don't trust the league, its officials, or its services.
I have a hard time believing that a guy who calls for a cab because he's been drinking would somehow negatively affect his reputation around the league.
In fact, I might be inclined to think the opposite. If Roger Goodell knows that Player A has called that hotline X number of times, that would indicate to me that he's taking his responsibility seriously to stay off the roads when drunk.
The hotline has been run by the NFLPA for a few years in an attempt to convince more players to use it. But yea, I agree with you that it shouldn't have a negative impact regardless.
Generally, these sorts of programs or benefits are set up such that names ands other identifying information are not reporteed to the employer, only usage statistics. It is highly unlikely they would be added to any list accessible by the league.
hmmmm, oh yeah, a union. Maybe they might be convinced they have some vested interest in the players health and well-being. They might even find it beneficial to limit the probablility of athletes finding themselves on the front page of the wrong section of the paper.
cost 90 bucks an hour. It's not a big deal if it's the top players but for UDFA, PS players, that's an excessive amount of money. Not saying it's wrong, but something to think about.
$90 an hour or thousands of dollars in legal costs and spending years in prison. $90 an hour sounds pretty good to me.
while you are correct, 95% of humans will choose the "free" route aka driving yourself. The fact of the matter is that these guys belong to a "union" how about their dues actually pay for this service off the top that way its a sunk cost and hopefully one wouldnt think twice about calling the line.
not that it makes any difference, but i read that it wasn't 'complimentary', it was $90/hour charged to the player. the nfl just is making sure that they have a cab any time, anywhere that the player needs it. but they still have to pay the $90/hour.
If it was related to a head injury, and or he was stunned, that's fine. But don't call him a hero. We are too quick to call people heroes these days, and it should be reserved for truly heroic acts.
I haven't heard a single person refer to him as a hero.
But maybe I just haven't been paying attention.
A quick ten-page Google search for "Josh Brent" and "hero" returns only results that say that he is not a hero. Most of them are about this report.
are also different flavors of "hero". I think most people are capable of determining for themselves where an act falls on their personal heroism scale.
Soooo if it's so easy how come the people doing the coercing weren't pulling the guy out? What was the eyewitness doing to help that lets him pass judgement? Anybody who's been in a serious car wreck knows that your higher brain functions don't work quite right even if you didn't get a whack on the head or whiplash. Some people overcome that and act like heroes. Some people do stupid crap trying to be a hero and get themselves hurt even worse. Some people get the shakes and are functionally worthless for awhile. It's tough to judge character from that.
If "not wanting to jump back into a flaming wreck you just escaped from" makes you an asshole, well, most everyone is an asshole.
Well, I'm not sure that Stacee Williams would have been as capable of pulling an NFL linebacker out of a car wreck as, say, a 300 lb. man who plays football for a living.
Okay, but it's not like she tried. She's condemning someone for failing to do what she herself was unwilling to attempt.
I have no idea how big or fit or young Stacee Williams is, but I'm NFL linebacker sized...and there are approximately zero females I know who would be capable of pulling me out of a car.
All she's really saying is "He's not a hero" and he didn't try to help the dying passenger without being coerced and prodded.
Nothing in your argument suggests that she's wrong about any of that.
Also, her comments appear to have been made after she learned that Josh Brent was an NFL player and driving drunk. I'm sort of willing to forgive her for making some heated comments in the aftermath.
Hell, there are heated comments over in the "Dennis Norfleet to safety?" post on the front page, and as far as I know, nobody in that thread just burned to death in a fiery crash.
Well according to ESPN you are 6'2" and 268 pounds. I would say a little bit bigger than linebacker sized.
Hey, that's about the size of Levon Kirkland...
If he was calling out as she claims, he could have assisted her. Why was he trapped? Maybe the door was jammed from the inside and just needed some coercion from outside. Maybe he was tangled in the seat belt. Maybe he just needed a little extra help to break free. Maybe he was just panicking and needed someone to calm him down. Maybe Stacee foing to helThere are any number of scenarios in which
I have no further interest in this conversation. Right now you're mad at a bystander for criticizing a guy who's (allegedly) a drunk driver and (allegedly) guilty of manslaughter.
I am shrugging my shoulders at this.
I'm not mad at her, I'm annoyed that people are making this big news, like it should totally change how we think about the situation. To the extent that I'm bothered by Stacee Williams, it's limited to minor annoyance at her dramatic casting of judgement that someone took a little too long to do what she was unwilling to do.
And you make my point: you and I judge the guy for drunkenly committing manslaughter. She (and the OP) judge the guy further for not being 100% after narrowly avoiding his own death.
That was weird, bad iPhone. Anyway there are a lot of scenarios in which Stacee could have helped even if she can't carry a linebacker up a flight of stairs.
At any rate, apparently Jerry died of blunt force trauma to the head and neck, so the time taken to get him out of the car doesn't seem to have affected the outcome. Hell maybe dragging him out of the car made it worse.
My only point is that the fact that it took a guy who had just been in a rollover a couple minutes to get his head in order and act doesn't affect my opinion on him, and it shouldn't affect yours. He's a bad guy for driving drunk and crashing. He's not a bad guy for getting shook up by a major crash.
To be perfectly clear, the guy is obviously not a "hero" for what that's worth, and clearly deserves a great deal of blame for drunkenly causing the crash. I'm just annoyed by the tone of the report, which implies that an accident survivor not leaping into a flaming car to save someone is condemnable in and of itself.
You don't think you have atleat a little bit of a positive duty in this case? It was clear that he had the ability to pull him out of the wreck, seeing as he did it.Then add on top of that the fact that you caused the situation in the first place. I could accept an argument from a bystander saying "I saw that the car was on fire and didn't want to risk it," but not from the person who caused the situation. I would have no problem condemning him further for not pulling the passenger out.
EDIT: To your last point, "if not going back to save the friend that you put in harms way makes you an asshole..." yes. Yes it does. There are other cases where you may not be directly at fault for the accient where I would back down from that stance. But not here.
The first thing you learn in a first aid class is "I'm first". That is, before approaching a person in need of help, make sure doing so doesn't put you or someone else at a high risk of injury. More injured people just make things harder for the professionals when they arrive and may well make things worse for the originally injured person.
Now that said, I generally agree that I personally would want to do something to help in that situation. After all, a friend is hurt and I was at fault. Decent people ought to want to help, ASSUMING THEY ARE COHERENT AND RATIONAL. That's a big assumption, and the description sounds like this guy was not. That's partially his fault for being drunk, but to the extent that being injured in a serious car wreck made him irrational, that's something you can't fault.
"What was the eyewitness doing to help that lets him pass judgement?"
I don't know, but I can tell you what the eyewitness was NOT doing that lets him pass judgement - he was not drunk driving, crashing his car, and killing his friend. We cannot place an obligation on an innocent bystander to risk their own life in an attempt to save another. The driver's obligation is a different story.
She does not have an obligation to help. But if she chooses not to help, she shouldn't go off on people who also didn't help for not helping.
If your rule is applied more generally, I'm basically understanding you to say that women should never complain if a guy refuses to lift heavy stuff.
Because, after all, if my girlfriend won't try to move that huge bookcase, then she shouldn't call me lazy for not moving it, either. I will be sure to tell her this the next time she asks me to carry her suitcase or load up some furniture in the back of a truck.
I think the actions that caused the wreck in the first place automatically disqualified Brent from being considered a "hero."
The "eyewitness" clearly is way over the top here. I haven't even heard anyone call Brent a hero, all I've heard is people just destroying the guy for what he did. My thing is people die and get others killed every single day in alcohol related incidents, but because this guy plays for the Cowboys (and is an athlete in general) and this happened to another athlete people want him to face the death penalty. (I've actually read people saying this) Remeber Donte Stallworth? He killed a homeless guy while he was drunk? Yeah, he's still playing.
All I can say is be careful when you drive, everyone. Especially if you are driving late, there are people out there who will drive in any state of mind, risking their own life and lives of others. After midnight the rules change - green means slow down, make sure it's clear, then go. Yellow just means stop.
The guy killed by Donte Stallworth was not homeless. He was a construction crane operator jaywalking in a busy street while trying to catch a bus.
Stallworth accepted a plea deal of 30 days in jail, a lot of community service, and an undisclosed settlement to the mans family.
In no way am I trying to justify Stallworth, or anyone, drinking and driving. Just getting the facts straight.
Dany Heatley would be a better comparison... Though he wasn't intoxicated.
I hate it anytime his name is just thrown out there as an example. Tragedy? Yes. Overblown? Yes.
The thing people forget about Stallworth is that he did the responsible thing and drove home the morning after drinking. He had slept and thought he was OK to drive in the morning, when it turns out he wasn't. Also, there is a video that kind of shows the homeless guy jumping in front of Stallworth's car (a Bentley) presuming the guy just wanted to get hit and get a large insurance settlement. Stallworth was told to plead innocent by his lawyers because they were convinced they had a case to get him off on all charges, but Stallworth felt so guilty, he plead guilty and served his debt to society.
*Edit: implying he did the right thing is not correct. He THOUGHT he was doing the right thing by waiting for the morning and merely assumed, as I'm sure many of us have, that he was OK in the morning.
i was unaware that this guy was a hero regardless of this development. he got drunk and got into an accident which killed his best friend. he's as far from hero as it gets. he's nothing but an idiot that will live with this guilt for the rest of his life.
Is just an example of someone trying to get on the news.
Im a Cowboy fan, and this is just another thing to add to the laundry list of lawlessness the Cowboys have been guilty of. Selling drugs, fights, now this to add? When is enough going to be enough? Jerry obviously cant get a handle on these guys and hasent been able to in a long time. I know DUIs and DWIs are common in the NFL, but this one takes the cake. I am completely sick of the BS. Josh Brent is NOT a hero and nor should he be viewed in that way. I know he is remorseful, and he feels horrible, but he needs to be severely punished. Make an example that another death as the result of drinking and driving is one too many. RIP Jerry Brown.
I haven't heard Brent called a hero by anybody, and what is a hero these days? Even the most "heroic" throughout history have had flaws, and anyone calling Brent a hero should have their head examined. Driving drunk is stupid. Anyone with even a low education level has had this pounded into their head at some point. To do it anyway is deserving of whatever punishment the system comes up for him.
I'm sure there would be women who would attempt it, but I don't think it's unreasonable or unlikely for a woman standing next to a huge man saying pull him out. There are still a lot of women who expect men to step up as protectors. And given their sizes, this doesn't surprise me at all.
She probably couldn't comprehend why he wouldn't just do it and expected that telling the guy with muscles to do it would be more effective than trying herself.
I've read that the autopsy showed blunt trauma to the head and neck was the COD. You might be right.
Or since Vilma was re-instated today he'll blame this on him setting a bounty out.
I don't think I've ever heard of anyone being a hero before/during/after driving drunk.
Doesn't make any difference whatsoever, in my opinion. The dude was drunk (allegedly..) and was just in a car accident terrible enough to kill someone. I think it's safe to say his head was not in the right place. THAT is what I'll ridicule him forever for, not for choosing not to be a hero and run into a fire to save someone else.
I'm not sure why this was even posted. We don't know this person's credibility or anything else about him or her. Brent's attorney has already rebuked this allegation. As said earlier, I'm sure he was in a state of shock that most on here have never known. I won't judge him for this "supposed" inaction. I will judge him for drinking, driving and speeding.
is the best post in the thread, and spot on.