OT - Two Florida Police Officers Killed
Nothing to do with Michigan or football at all, but still a tremendous tragedy.
http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/06/29/florida.police.shot/index.html?hpt=T1
You have to wonder if the suspect will elect to end it himself, or allow the state of Florida to execute him, because either way, that is one dead, dead, dead man.
im sure you do them proud here
I'm pretty sure they'd be just fine with me calling out some POS who uses a thread about two police officers being murdered in cold blood to get on his soapbox and start crying about police brutality
The loss of any human life is a tragedy. As a Cardiologist I see people die on a fairly regular basis and when it happens it is tragic. It doesn't matter what the circumstances are, I think the loss of any human life is a tragedy.....for someone.
It doesn't matter who they are, what kind of life they have lived or what their occupation is. The fact of the matter is they are people and matter to someone. Whether they are a father, son, sister, uncle, aunt, mother, cop, banker, doctor, murderer, theif, etc etc etc. These people will all leave behind people who loved them and will be devestated at their loss.
To try and say that some peoples death is tragic while others isn't purely based on what they do is insane to me.
True story: I was on call on a weekend and a man was brought in with multiple gunshot wounds. The man was well known in the area as the biggest drug dealer around our parts and had been in jail multiple times. He had killed a couple of people in his past but only was convicted of manslaughter so was out of jail in 4 years.
Myself and the surgeon on call were called in and both of us knew the man personally (we had grown up with him). Over the course of our lives I had grown a degree of distain for this individual because of the paths he had chosen.
When I saw who it was I had one of those moments where one wonders whether the world would potentially be a better place without him in it. In all seriousness, his life was in our hands and no one would have known if we didn't do all we could to save him.
Right then the mans girlfriend and three year old daughter came in the room. The girlfriend was hysterical as was the young daughter (though I think she was just reacting to the mother). It was then that it hit me.....She wouldn't be better off without him. The daughter wouldn't either nor the mother or brothers. It would have been tragic to them.
That night we saved a man that many people probably think the world would be better off without, but to at least a few people, we averted a tragedy whether you would characterize it as one or not.
you thought about denying care to a patient based on your own assessment of his life, and then thought better of it? what does that have to do with this?
ive already stated multiple times that the deaths of those officers was as significant as anyone else who died in the world that day, no more no less. i dont feel extra sad because they are police officers and im not rejoicing their demise either. what has everyone's petticoats in twists is the fact that i said i DO feel extra sad for victims of police exploitation.
You first said that two cops being murdered wasn't a tragedy. My point is that night I realized that every loss of life is a tragedy to someone. At least stand behind what you said.
I don't think you can generalize like that and say its not a loss because the Tampa police force isn't the best. The focus should be on these two, and it doesn't appear that they did anything to "deserve" being shot (to the extent that its even possible to "deserve" that).
I think any senseless death is a tragedy. I do agree that there is no reason to care more about the death of a police officer than the death of a Nurse. HOWEVER, the solution to that is to care more about the death of the Nurse, not less about the death of a police officer.
Potato pahtahto.
The articles you post don't involve the officers that died, or even the same district that the officers that died work in. I don't see how posting two articles that reflect poorly on random cops, should reflect the sympathy at all felt for the loss of the two cops shot. That is the equivilent of me saying I feel less sypathy for a white guy dying, because there have been white guys that have done bad things, and white guys aren't innocent by default. Pretty ridulous post.
If you want to state that you feel no sympathy because you assume by default that these cops were assholes and deserved to die, then I guess you're entitled to your opinion, and I would form an opinion about you. However, just posting two random articles and trying to connect the two is a bit absurd.
But then i read about these. police in america are not innocent by default.
"The police" aren't really a cohesive unit. Like any group of people granted a measure of power in society, some of them are going to abuse it and some of them are going to do good with it.
Just because some cops are not great human beings doesn't mean that two men shot and killed during a routine traffic stop (!) don't deserve your sympathy.
If nothing else, if good men and women don't become cops, then all we'll have left are the bad apples. Change the system from within.
Suicide gets a bad rap sometimes. Think about how much better the planet would be if this guy had woken up today, put that handgun he was carrying into his mouth and pulled the trigger.
Two wives, four parents, five kids, any number of friends....all of them would be having a fine day today. They wouldn't spend the rest of their lives with two big, giant gaping holes in them. Instead, there would be one more dead, sorry piece of crap lying on the floor and his two brain cells would be on the wall.
Hell, if he had walked down to the Gulf, wandered in over his head and taken a couple of big gulps, the crabs and the gulls could have been having a nice meal for weeks!
The shooters better give up in a well lit, public place if they want to see jail. Most murderers of police officers have a way of "becoming aggressive" upon capture and "have to be put down in self defense."
Most murderers have already shown/proven that they are, in fact, aggressive.
And "most murderers" of police officers are captured and convicted... not murdered by shady cops that are out for "blue code" revenge.
I agree, but blue code justice happens. If you don't think so you are naive.
8 years defending police officers suggests I am not naive - but very educated on the topic. Honestly, of all my cases I'd estimate 5% are about "shady" police officers; 50% about cops doing exactly what society wants of them but something goes wrong... and 45% are about shady "victims" and even shadier Plaintiffs' attorneys.
Every profession has it's share of asshats -- but for police officers it's those 5% that everyone wants to focus on. Even when 2 good cops get shot down for doing the job we all expect of them you get reactions (as seen on this thread) of pure disprespect and negative stereotypes.
EDIT: -His Dudeness: I didn't / don't consider your post to be "pure disrespect" and Irealize your comments were not a negative response to the OP or the story itself
police in america are not innocent by default.
Just...stop and think about what you're saying for five minutes. Don't be an asshole...stop and toss that one thought over a couple of times.
im not saying they deserved to die, but im not going to feel any worse for these two than i did for amadou diallo, sean bell, or little ayanna.
Talib Kweli said it best in "The Proud" from 2002's "Quality
"kurt loder asked me what id say to a dead cop's wife/i said cops kill my people every day, thats life"
I mean, I love Talib Kweli and all, but that's really the *best* way to say it?
thats the best way to express MY thoughts on the matter.
i have more in common with most police brutality victims than i do with police.
The shooter in the article posted to be a police brutality victim?
Many police brutality victims are doing something wrong in the first place, something that doesn't warrant a beating but does warrant attention.
So . . . I guess we know what kind of person you are.
interesting comment coming from the guy who said that "you cant take the pahokee out" of a kid
Hey, at least you know how to argue using a non sequitur! That should serve you well.
At leasy you know what a non sequitur is.
you seem to consider police brutality a real tragedy but brutality against police merely sad.
police brutality involves willful abuse of the power granted them by society.
brutality against police is regular old senseless violence. which i am NOT advocating, for the nth time.
brutality against police is regular old senseless violence. which i am NOT advocating, for the nth time.
No. It WOULD be regular old senseless violence, except that many people have viewpoints similar to or worse than yours, and target the police like klan members target other races.
sort of like how there are cops who target poor black and hispanic youth? nothing happens in a vacuum
and for the record, no one with viewpoints like mine targets anybody. ive actually lost people to gun violence. its not for me. just because i find police misconduct to be particularly distateful doesnt mean im in favor of retaliatory violence.
nothing happens in a vacuum
Exactly. That's why you even making mention of those other cops' issue, and then further using it as a springboard to explain your viewpoint that ESPECIALLY in a cop's case, we shouldn't presume innocence, etc, is such a douchey thing to do. Since nothing happens in a vacuum, you should take each case on a one by one basis.
By grouping cops together to pass summary judgement, you're contributing to the problem in a very bigoted, almost racist way.
first of all i never insinuated, hinted, or certainly flat out declared that THESE cops were guilty of some social injustice. people are almost choosing to be OMG OUTRAGE over what im typing if they are reading my words as my support for a cop killer.
but unless the OP also has posted about the people in detroit who experience gun violence every day...then that type of mentality is on the other side of the fence from me. and to be honest, do you think that in a post about police brutality, a dissenting pro-police poster gets neg banged? because i dont.
the only police ive judged in here are the ones who've committed violence against parties named in the thread.
do you think that in a post about police brutality, a dissenting pro-police poster gets neg banged? because i dont.
It would depend on if it were about a very specific case of police brutality, and also what the facts are, as well as what the dissenting poster said. If the poster said, "Well, these cops were probably in the wrong, but they have a tough job and it might not be quite what we think", then no.
If, on the other hand, they said, "I was going to feel bad for the victim of police brutality, but then I remembered the case in Florida where a guy killed two cops for no reason. Don't just assume innocence here.", then yeah, I think there would be a big problem.
You sound like you're still sore from the Detroit Riots. Different people from different times. Do NOT let it influence you now.
'If the poster said, "Well, these cops were probably in the wrong, but they have a tough job and it might not be quite what we think", then no.'
why is the "but they have a tough job..." part needed? i know that police have a tough job, but they arent conscripts. besides, when i start tempering my thoughts based on how the MGoBlog community (or any other) will react to them i'll have reached a low point in life.
besides, when i start tempering my thoughts based on how the MGoBlog community (or any other) will react to them i'll have reached a low point in life.
I agree. BUT, the fact that you received such a strong negative reaction should indicate that either your thoughts or your delivery need reevaluation.
And yes, the "they have a tough job" part IS needed. You and I deal with hostile bosses that could fire us. A police officer deals with hostile criminals that could kill them. That definitely earns them an extra layer of respect/willingness to try an understand. And no, I'm not giving them an outright defense. I'm not even giving them the benefit of the doubt. I'm giving them additional consideration.
I agree. BUT, the fact that you received such a strong negative reaction should indicate that either your thoughts or your delivery need reevaluation.
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possibly. and the fact that it took 90 minutes for someone to accurately summarize my point supports that thought.
but you're going to great lengths to minimize it, which isn't that many steps away.
If you think that this constitutes "regular old senseless violence", then you could have either a) ignored this thread or b) give sympathies and move on. Instead, you chose to decry police brutality. This suggests several possibilities, namely that you a) have a deep-seated bias against police in general, b) are being a contrarian for the sole purpose of creating a situation where you can feel justified and oppressed by the majority, or c) both.
because my opinions on this story are as valid as anyone else's.
because the thought that police dying on the job represents a special sort of valor at baseline, is insulting to me.
because i can.
i can promise you i didnt sign up 2 years ago and plot a troll extravaganza. i dont expect anyone here to agree with my opinions, even though there are millions of people who do. everything ive typed comes from a genuine place.
Your opinion is not as valid as everyone else's because it is fucking stupid. Fuck you and your ignorance you moron.
Don't forget Timothy Stansbury
Abner Louima while we're at it.
sodomy with a broom at the hands of goons armed with guns and the law...a real tragedy
Wrongful killings are tragic, whether the deceased are black or police officers or Asian or women or men or children or astronauts or custodians.
yea upseting considering some of us put ourselfs on the line in federal or sate law enforcement every day
So, "TheDirtyD" is a cop? That is good to know.
On the actual subject - terrible story. No idea why someone would kill two cops if they only had minor offenses (high on PCP? something in the car? something in their past that hadn't been caught yet?). Even more terrible that one wife is pregnant and the other has four young kids.
How anyone could make a joke (Justin Turner) out of that is sickening.
no im not a cop, im an airline pilot but, a lot of my good friends are U.S marshalls, FBI, agents staties and so forth i lost my friend i grew up with who was a cop his 3rd day on the job during a traffic stop the sad part was he was handing him a written warning for speeding.
yea upseting considering some of us put ourselfs on the line in federal or sate law enforcement every day
Us??
perhaps some readers are not yourself or I but others might be.
I just tried, and apparently Droid doesn't do capital punishment.
Motorola and Verizon are getting sued for this, unless Google Justice comes out soon.