No idea the answer to your question, but I must say that was an impressive array of spelling errors.
OT: Toyota: totally up shit creek?
I still gave him a +1 though, for "shit creek" alone.
...as a place name, it should be capitalized.
+1. Here's lookin' at you Cock. Thank you for your insight.
that by the time he's out of middle school, Toyota will be perfectly fine.
Nice. He's an apprentice of mine.
+1 for being a good sport. I was laughing tears after e.go.blue's reply.
More like English 070. Me hate spelling.
cannot get a brake.
(chirp chirp... chirp chirp)
That's fucking terrible.
Not at all.
up shit creek, but they're in some trouble.
What Ford needs to do is really do some serious PR on their own vehicles. They really have to promote the Focus, the Fusion and the new Taurus, even more than they have in the past. Those three are some of the best new cars out there.
GM has to start hyping the Cruze as a solid fuel efficient option once that hits the showrooms. The Malibu is one helluva car as well, and Buick is making some nice cars, too.
Chrysler.....well.......Ford makes the Fusion and Taurus and GM has a nice option in the Malibu. There's just nothing new at Chrysler, and there probably isn't going to be for a little bit yet.
Toyota made a very nice reputation over the last 20 years with their quality. It's not going to come crashing down overnight, but it's going to take one helluva hit.
NBC did a special a couple weekends ago at the Detroit Auto show...they showed Ford and GM's new models (Cruze, Taurus, etc). When they got to Chrysler, they said something to the effect of: Chrysler doesn't have any new models, but the board is confident the new year will bring Chrysler around.
So sad. I want Chrysler to turn it around...I just don't see it in the cards.
Just a slight correction, the new global C-platform Focus isn't going to show up in showrooms until late this year. Until then we are stuck with a face-lifted version of the Focus that was introduced all the way back in 1999 (party like it's....) It really annoys me that the Europeans have gotten a slew of awesome C1 platform Foci between then and now, it has always been one of my favorite small cars but the current model is just severely outdated when compared with its contemporaries right now.
Mazda3 was built on C1. So was Volvo S40.
Yes we did get those C1 platform cars in addition to the Volvo V50, C70, C30, XC60, and Mazda 5 but none are "American" cars. Also, I wasn't really enamored with the MS3 and the 2.3L DISI engine after reading Blackstone Labs reports and how it abused oil. IMHO the 2.5L I5 in the euro Focus RS was a much better FI base to start from.
What's your stance on the Fusion and Taurus?
I really like the Fusion in the C/D segment. The Taurus is a nice car, just a far bigger car than I want or can see myself needing in the foreseeable future. That said, I would definitely shop both of them if I was looking for something in their class. I am a big Honda fan but I am not as enamored by their latest generation of vehicles and I would like to support Ford if they produce a competitive product (which they do now IMO).
I was referring to your "American Car" comment.
The Fusion is built in Hermasillo Mexico from the Mazda6 platform designed by Mazda, although the current gen Fusion displays much more American design influence than the first iteration. Mazda6s are also built in Flat Rock, Michigan.
The Taurus is the built in Chicago (IIRC) from the [evolved] last-gen Volvo S60/80 platform, which is why they had such trouble fitting an appropriate engine into the car prior to the 3.5 TwinForce/EcoBoost engine and redesign occured.
Technically, the entire Ford car renaissance is driven from global (or at least outside US lead development) platforms. The new Focus is moving to the next gen C1. Fiesta is the global B platform designed for Europe. Fusion is built off the evolved C/D platform born in the first-gen Mazda6. Interestingly enough, Fusion branched the C/D platform more towards D, while Mazda6 and Mondeo (globally anyway) are on a separate branch of that platform. Taurus is still on that heavily modified Volvo platform, and will be in the forseeable future as Ford has divested Volvo and is yet to announce a global FWD/AWD platform, although a global RWD platform is in the works.
TL;DR - An "American Car" doesn't make sense as a business concept anymore. A car built in a American by an American owned brand, well, you have that option still.
That is why I put quotation marks around American Car. Most of Ford and GM's best models use platforms designed by their overseas subsidiaries such as the ones you listed from Ford (Or the Opel/Saab Epsilon platform, Opel Epsilon II, and Holden Sigma platforms) and some of them aren't even built in the US anymore. I didn't feel bad at all buying my wife a Honda Accord (hers was built in Marysville, OH) but I would like to support Ford for vastly improving quality and not taking bailout money if they offer a competitive product. In the end Ford will only overcome my brand loyalty to Honda if I decide that Ford offers a better product after research and test drives.
Toyota Unveils New Slogan: “Drive a Toyota. You’ll Never Stop.”
Someone should inform Calvin that urination in public is illegal and that he is about to be crushed by a giant logo.
from a NASCAR board?
Calvin, you are without loyalty. Is there anything you won't piss on?
Toyota gives a lot of business to Michigan parts suppliers. I'd hate to see anything hurt businesses in the state.
Toyota's issues are not even close to as bad as the Big 3's struggles have hurt the suppliers in the great state of MI.
Oh, great! So suppliers will lose another healthy customer. Seriously.
It could actually help Ford, GM and even potentially Chrysler and their suppliers when people buy more of their products because of these issues.
Well, hopefully all the suppliers will be able to make up the logistics gap. Because, you know, increased demand will turn in to immediate purchases from these suppliers. Oh...wait..
What a wonderfully neophyte view on manufacturing. Seriously.
could just go away and I wouldn't shed a tear. The japanese auto companies have no problem purchasing from american suppliers, just as long as those american suppliers purchase the raw materials used to make those products from the foreign supplier of Toyota or Honda's choice. They are willing to pay more then double the cost to ensure we get our latex and powders from Japan. We could easily get equal quality goods right here in America for less then the cost of shipping those raws from Japan. No Japanese raws, no business...so on the outside it might appear they are contributing to the health of the local economy but in reality not so much.
Moving Forward...and not stopping.
Could end up hurting GM a little bit too, right? The Pontiac Vibe is a joint venture with Toyota (the Toyota Matrix), so those are getting recalled too.
This is the last year for Pontiac. G.M may decide to not work with Toyota after this incident. We'll see.
They've already decided to not work together (at least from a model sharing standpoint) before this all happened. As part of the GM bankruptcy, they decided to get rid of their interest in NUMMI (in California), which was the GM/Toyota joint venture where these were made. Toyota since then has said their shutting the plant down later this year.
just dont have the business to sustain that plant anymore. As someone employed by a supplier I for one am thrilled..NUMMI is a pain in the arse to deal with.
I sure hope the big 3 can jump on this and use it to get the ball rolling. Its not just the US that needs them, its North America.
well, maybe mexico and usa need the Big 3, but not canada. all they need to do is win gold in curling to end the recession and send the people into a frenzy of consumption spending
you are right... north america needs this more than just the US... how many people do you know in windsor that have lost their jobs because of the fall of the big 3... people might not realize that the big 3 is a big part of southwestern ontario...
toyota prius power steering issues? heard it on npr.
So about 2 months ago my mom rammed her '05 Camry (not part of the recall) into a local dry cleaners. Thing just took off on her from a parked position. Luckily nobody was hurt and insurance covered the damage, minus a $1000 deductible. She was told by Toyota that it was probably her floormat and that they wouldn't do anything about it. She was scared to drive the car and ended up trading it in for a Honda. A few lawyers told her she had no case.
It seems now that there might be a case, but it probably wouldn't be worth it to try to get back the $1000. It definitely freaked her out, especially at first when she thought she did something wrong and nearly killed people in the store, but not enough to sue for "psychological damages." Sucks that Toyota didn't take it seriously, but you can't sue for that, right? Maybe it's worth reporting to someone in the hope this doesn't happen to other '05 Camry owners?
Any advice would be appreciated.
-1 for trading in a Toyota for a Honda.
But to be constructive, you can sue for absolutely anything if you've got a lawyer who's willing to pursue the case thoroughly (maybe not worth your $1000). I can see a few lawyers shrugging this off 2 months ago as no case, but with Toyota going into PR panic mode and problems popping up left and right, I'm sure those same lawyers would reconsider today. Sue for damages: physical, psychological, imaginary, whatever...go for the jugular.
That, or you can wait for the inevitable class action suit to drop.
Also, I'm not a lawyer.
I have a very limited understanding of how class action suits work, and whether this Toyota thing will likely end in one. Don't want to sue for the sake of suing, but it would seem fair to at least get that $1000 back, if not a little extra for this nightmarish event and the ensuing headache.
To answer the original question, you probably don't have much of a case. You probably could recover actual damages if you prove the manufacturer's faulty design caused the wreck. It's generally strict liability for these kinda things. As you said, there's no basis for punitives, emotional distress, etc.
To scottcha - no, for several reasons. First, you can't sue for anything. File a frivolous claim and you get hit with Rule 11 sanctions. Second, there wouldn't be a $1000 payment for this type of case - they are taken on contingency and the most you would pay upfront is the filing fee (couple hundred). Finally, because of the contingency factor, these kind of lawyers won't take just any case for fun - they won't make any money on the case if they lose. The kind of lawyers that accept marginal cases are unintelligent themselves - they are seeing merit in meritless cases or perhaps just don't have anything else to work on. That's why several lawyers turned down the case.
That's kinda what I figured.
Thanks, Captain Obvious!
Honestly, it's probably not worth the hassle to sue, especially if insurance covered most.
Despite what the sensationalist media will tell you, recovering any punitive damages or emotional distress is difficult, and recovering a significant amount of either is an exceedingly rare event, usually coming off of extraordinary facts.
By the way, none of this is legal advice, just a general discussion, etc etc
I'm totally suing Captain Obvious
PO BOX: Never Never Land
Alright then. I'll remember not to hire you the next time I lean too far into the flaming cheese fajitas at Mexican Town Restaurant.
and you being a Michigan fan was there no discussion on getting a product made by a Michigan based company after Toyota freaked her out?
My mom buys into stereotypes and gets pretty stubborn about it, so there's no arguing logic with her. Most of her friends drive Japanese cars, and most of them buy into the meme that they are safer and more reliable (she doesn't live in Michigan and never has). When I recently adopted a half pit-bull she flipped out because of the rare horror stories and BS stereotypes.
She probably watches a lot of local news and their contrived exposes.
This thread has been pretty funny.
However, I drive a Toyota and I love it. Best car I've ever owned.
Just like your refrigerator is the best refrigerator you've ever owned? Sorry that you don't appreciate cars.
I just traded in my 10 year old Corolla for a new GTI. It's amazing how much more fun the GTI is...
Worst car I've ever owned (2004 GTI). Two manual tranmissions, one coil pack, one faulty aluminum rim not covered under warranty, slipping clutch off the lot, and all this in 10,000 miles. On top of this I was treated like a pesky booger. Best vehicle, Jeep Commander or Plymouth Neon. Preventive maintenance, I've learned over the years, is the best way to stay away from the dealerships. As soon as you see a bill from them, your opinion of the company can change quick.
Bummer. I have a 2001 GTI VR6 with 100K miles and it runs great. Really fun car.
In my lifetime I've owned 2 Fords, 1 Chevy, 1 Pontiac, 1 Olds, 1 Chrysler, 1 Jeep, and 1 Toyota. Of those cars, my wife currently drives the Jeep and I drive the Toyota. (I love the fact that my wife has the Jeep for winter months, she's not a very good winter driver.)
Anyway, based on my own experience, I can tell you this: The fit and finish, overall quality and reliability of my Toyota has far surpassed any other vehicle I've ever owned.
My Wifes Jeep is nice and all, but it has a lot of cheap plastic and the leather is neither soft nor real. The seat warmers do work well though, so she's got that going for her. On the other hand, my Toyota has real leather and the interior materials are of the highest quality. I've owned this Toyota for almost 10 years and it still looks brand new, inside and out.
Of the "American" cars I've owned: The 2 Fords were junk. (The Ford Explorer I purchased brand new in 1998 was in the shop probably 10 times in the first year. I eventually sued Ford under the Lemon Law and won.) The Chevy was OK, the Pontiac Grand Am I drove during college was pretty cool, until it broke down, the Chrysler was pretty nice, but had lot's of cheap plastic, and the Oldsmobile was nice.
While I might not appreciate your defintion of "Cars", I do appreciate high quality, reliable cars.
Sure they have no presence in Michigan but I don't think we should be cheering on Toyota's demise. They have ten or so factories in this country as close to us as Indiana. Between manufacturing, suppliers and dealerships, Toyota employs or indirectly pays well over 100,000 US citizens. I know a few myself and would hate to see them out of a job as I am with GM.
The Toyota corp has also donated hundreds of millions over the last 20 years to US charities. I'm just saying*
*I do not work for or represent Toyota in any way. I don't even own one.
Actually, Toyota's North American Technical Center is in Ann Arbor, and two years ago or so announced an expansion that would add 400 engineering jobs to the area (making a total of about 900). This sort of thing can happen to any company, especially large corporations.*
That being said, the Big 3 should use this to shift their momentum. For GM and Ford, I don't think this could have come at a better time.....Chrysler on the other hand....eh.
*I work for an OEM, but not Toyota.
Forgot all about that.
That center is actually also Toyota's North American automotive R&D headquarters and a lot of the reports on the recall are filed from Ann Arbor.
It's still far more important for the region that the Big 3 do well, of course.
Toyota has a technical center in Michigan somewhere.
ann arbor. it's up by earhart on the northeast side of town.
I'm not sure where things are in development, but Toyota was putting in a research and development facility with a testing track in York Township near the border between Saline and Milan school districts.
"up a/shit creek without a paddle."
I mean, if you're up the creek, you can just float down it with the current. I'd think it would be much worse to be down shit creek without a paddle.
I presume with a paddle, you would just paddle to shore and be on your way. Without a paddle, you're forced to either linger in a creek of shit (following the current to where there's likely a massive buildup of shit), or use your hands to paddle to shore, both of which are decidedly sub-optimal.
People need to stop referring to the Big 3. Chrysler is like the 7th biggest automaker, has been bankrupt twice and acquired and sold 3 times. It's a shitty car company, always has been.
Hush your mouth...Mopar was/is a muscle car powerhouse. The barracuda might be the most awesome muscle car ever.
Big 2, Little 1?
And sadly, that isn't even close to the most ridiculous idea in that book.
I loved the series. However, IIRC at the end of that book terrorists flew a passenger jet full of jet fuel into the Capitol building. It seemed a little too on-point after early fall of 2001.
Isn't Chrysler's biggest chip military procurement? They make Jeeps and the Abrams tank, correct?
And Commando Elite action figures.
General Dynamics makes the Abrams, and The U.S. military hasn't procured a "Jeep" in over 20 years.
What's left of Chrysler makes decent minivans, and NASCAR wannabies now.
but I'm sure that the good people at Hyundai (no, seriously, I love them) are planning on stepping into the breach here. They've been steadily increasing their market share and profits, and this only provides them with a new opportunity.
Hyundai kinda reminds me of Lexus when they were introduced in the late 80s. They built a luxury vehicle that rivaled the established players of the day (Mercedes, BMW, etc) at a price point quite a bit south of the others. Hyundai did this with the Genesis...but of course it's yet to be seen if they'll be as successful as Lexus has.
I never, ever thought I'd see someone compare Lexus and Hyundai. Well played, sir!
Honestly, for me this is like a second Christmas. You have no idea how much I hate Toyota. Not a small part of that is that they're the Detroit Three's biggest rival, but the thing is, to me, Toyota makes refrigerators. Washing machines. Their cars are nothing but appliances that move you around. They have no style, no excitement, no performance. God forbid we ever see a world in which the Toyota approach to cars is the only one.
And it's actually a dangerous one for the company, because if they lose their reputation for quality, what do they have? They're boring as hell and not priced any better than any other car. They can't make a truck that does a job better or a sports car that beats its competitors, and every attempt at style has been a disaster (FJ Cruiser - I have never understood why the Pontiac Aztek gets criticized and the FJ Cruiser gets a pass.)
I'll never be caught dead in a foreign-brand car, but at least I can respect, say, Nissan or Mitsubishi for making an attempt at building a car worth driving instead of a blandbox reminiscent of nothing but my toaster.
Toyota made and popularized the world's first practical, high-volume hybrid vehicle. While the Prius probably doesn't fulfill your fun quotient, we need these kind of advances.
Subarus are a great car to drive. I got one to replace my '96 Pontiac which seemed to require about $2k in repairs each year.
I actually like the FJ, especially in yellow.
Toyota has a business model. They targeted the sedan market, and have shown a lot of success there. Initially, they weren't interested in trucks so much, and that's why Toyota trucks ten years ago were junk compared to Ford and Chevy.
However, you're sorely mistaken to think that Toyota hasn't made a serious push into the truck market with their newest Tundras. They're also going to be releasing a diesel version of the Tundra soon, which is about the last stronghold that Toyota has yet to breach. Of course, getting into this market will be difficult more Toyota because Ford and Chevy really do make some nice trucks.
Again, Toyota is not interested in sports cars. Lets be honest though, the Toyota Supra Mark IV's are some solidly built cars with a lot of performance capabilities. It's sad that it went by the wayside, but those could be some really nice cars.
Still, with this economy, its hard to really build a tier 1 sports car and make a profit. Heck, Honda has always had a really good performance sports department and look what (sadly) happened to the NSX.
Now companies are doing what Nissan did--taking their top end sports cars and making them affordable. Nissan did this with the Skyline (now the Infiniti V35 series), and I expect whenever Honda re-releases the NSX it will not longer be a pure sports car but a luxury vehicle with some nice pick up.
The point is, its just not profitable anymore to make super awesome cars. Toyota realizes their niche is the classic sedan, and they do a good job at it. Having really captured that market, now they're expanding into others. Sometimes they do a good job (i.e. Tundra), and others not so much (FJ cruiser).
My only issue with Toyota is that the media has fawned over them for years concerning safety and reliability (wait, where have I heard that before...) despite the fact that their cars have had problems similar to those experienced by the likes of Ford, GM, etc. And I'm not talking about just this recall - I distinctly remember a story in the Freep when I was in college about ignition problems with Corollas and Camrys. It was the type of problem that domestic autos would have been vilified for, but Toyota just skated by. And like this recall, they apparently knew about the problem at least a year in advance and slow-played it in order to minimize the negative PR hit.
I don't wish any ill will or pain upon Toyota because they do make nice, functional cars that provide some style and substance that domestic autos ignored somewhat in the race for the biggest SUV. I just hope that this revelation changes the narrative for Toyota to one shared by virtually all other major autos - good car company that, unfortunately, has problems from time to time.
that this series of incidents drives down the market on used Toyotas and I'm able to get a bargain on one or two year old Camry.
Every company has recalls.
Every company helps the US economy, in one way or another.
Every company has defects.
Drive the car you like and be done with it, that's how I see it.
2003 Ford Ranger 4x4 with the 4.0 V6 under the hood. Just under 80K. I have 2 complaints: Ford's propensity to put a 4:10 rear end in almost every 4WD vehicle they can get their hands on, and my truck's appetite for rear brakes. I'm on my 3rd set of rear brakes. Other than that I love the truck and intend to keep it for years to come.
My dad worked at the Saline Ford plant. A Ford paycheck provided my father the opportunity to buy his farm, and the proceeds from corn and soybeans, as well as the Ford paycheck, allowed my sister and I to both attend and graduate from college. So when the time comes to replace my vehicles, it's a no-brainer. A Ford gets parked in the garage, and that will continue to be the case as long as Ford continues to provide for my dad's (now) retirement. That was the deal when he was hired in 1968, those were the rules he played under, and that's how we're going to operate.
I have yet to own a bad Ford product, and in my 35 years on this earth, my dad has yet to have a bad Ford truck. He's had 4 of them that I can remember, and they last about 10 years each. And being on a farm, those are not easy miles on those trucks. They've been worked, and when he's done, there's not much left when the odometer reads 190,000.
I wholeheartedly agree that for most vehicles, the best thing you can do is the preventative maintenance. If you do that, for most vehicles all 100,000 miles means is that it's time to change the spark plugs. 20-25 years ago 100,000 miles meant time for replacement. Now that number is closer to 150K-200K.
USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA
Studied them for a few MBA presentations. They are following the Toyota model for entry into the US market and are coming on quickly. They've switched from low-end econoboxes to making quality midlevel models.
My guess is that in 5 years we'll be mentioning them in the same breath as Toyota or the Big 2.
I'm in the market for a new car and I'm going Ford all the way. Buy American and buy Michigan.
did you know toyota backwards is atoyot.... actually that makes no sense
One of the top-most priorities for all car manufacturers today is to provide the safety to car owners. Car safety is one of the most important business philosophies of Toyota. Toyota (toyota used cars) has continually introduced advanced and innovative safety features such as SRS air bags, anti-lock brake, advanced steering control, traction control and various other features to ensure maximum safety to both the passenger and driver.