How don't you realize that your girlfriend was really a man? I feel like you would be able to recognize a man trying to impersonate a woman if you heard that voice enough.
Peppers at 10, which seems low.
How don't you realize that your girlfriend was really a man? I feel like you would be able to recognize a man trying to impersonate a woman if you heard that voice enough.
Maybe because you did realize your "girlfriend" was a man and that wasnt a problem for you.
The humiliation is enough to drive a person to suicide. He would have received better treatment by the media for a DUI or drug offense. I feel bad for the guy.
This video is freaking hilarious!
Is English his first language? Listening to him speak, I wonder if he actually wrote that statement he released last week or if an ND rep whipped it up.
Of course he didn't write it. And ESL question is not ok, dude.
It's an honest question. Is English his native language or did he grow up speaking Samoan at home, or something else? I'd never heard him speak until recently. He sounds like he has a pronounced accent.
If English is his second language, I could maybe buy the "he was duped" argument a little more.
Maybe Manti was into the Mahu's
Transgendered and transexual individuals greatly disturb most God-fearing Christians, who believe that everything other than 'conventional' marital sex is a mortal sin. The ancient Hawaiians were not as tightly strung, in their graceful understanding that all human beings possess a complete Tao of male and female qualities within themselves. 'Mahu' is a Hawaiian term that describes a man who has chosen to live as a woman and in the ancient (pre-missionary) culture, such individuals were respected and regarded as important members of the community.
Between the Mormon family, it's one I was inclined to believe but after hearing Michael Wilbon talk about Teo in general on the radio yesterday, I think that Teo is probably just that... for lack of a better term, simple. Wilbon said that after he talked to Teo (pre heisman ceremony), Wilbon was struck by just how child-like Teo seemed. That's something that can be seen in tons of athletes. I don't know where he grew up in hawaii, but the question of "street smarts" comes to mind. Many people aren't exposed to lots of things before they go off to college, and I'm guessing Teo had never thought that someone could be hoaxing him, and that what he thought was real was real.
The main aspect to the "beard" angle for me is that Teo's dad thought Lennay was going to be his Daughter in law. So Teo talked her up to his dad quite a bit. Whether that's because Teo wanted his dad to think he was straight, or becuse Teo was duped this badly... Eh, I don't really care.
Please don't reference Michael Wilbom again. Thanks in advance.
It takes virtually no street smarts to avoid talking TO A MAN on the phone and using that as the basis for "falling in love" with an imaginary lady.
Te'o is obviously full of shit.
Remember the Bernard Boursicot/Shi Pei Pu affair? That was diplomat (i.e., not a dumb jock) who thought he was in a relationship with a woman for more than twenty years before he found out it was really a man.
Hmmm...speaking of which, has anybody considered that maybe Chinese intelligence agents set up Teo to embarrass America?
I'd have way more sympathy for Te'o if he had actually hooked up with this Tuiasosopo character dressed in drag and just didn't notice the dong. This story is somehow way creepier and sad than that.
I'd have way more sympathy for him if he was actually gay with Tuiasasopo and just came out with it. Sure, he would get ripped on in NFL locker rooms for it, but probably not as much as he will now. And at least then he'd be open about who he was, and might end up with a Tebow-like following from the LGBT community. Talk about a corner of the market that is totally untapped.
So to speak.
Maybe there was a girl that was involved.
Oh, well that's what I get for not paying attention to what used to be an interesting story.
If Te'o can be fooled into falling in love by talking to some dude on the phone for hours at a time, I'm about to make some serious cash as a sultry phone sex operator.
Mo money, mo money, mo money!
She said it was decent money if you didn't mind the late hours and occasional weirdos.
Apparently these are voicemails from the dude to Manti???? Sounds like a chick to me...
"Lennay" was nagging Manti about not answering the phone, and they never even met in-person! Hilarious.
He talked to her on the phone! His phone records where made public on ESPN the other day showing hours of call to the lady. Anyone could fall for this crap but, we wouldn't refer to them as our GF. I think that angle got played up when she "died" the day after his grandmother.
This story just needs to go away
He didn't release his phone records. He emailed an excel file which supposedly contained a summary of his phone calls... big difference.
Maybe the real, original, unexpurgated records have a few calls from agents on there too. What about some well-to-do boosters from Chicago and New York?
Was your subject line from forrest gump?
1. Te'o's agency is the same as Couric's. His people didn't call hers to set up the interview, they're the same people. If you don't think this interview is going to paint him in the best light possible... I've got a cliche to sell you
2. Since the interview was recorded a few days ago, it's come out that Tuiasosopo (sp?) the man behind the hoax, was on the phone with Te'o all that time. What?
I don't really care what comes of this, but it's totally a weird situation. I don't understand why Teo's agents want him to keep talking (unless to help their client Couric). NFL teams are going to grill him in the interviews, and that's what is going to get him drafted (or let him fall), not any interviews he does on daytime TV.
Yes, I'd like more information on this cliche you're selling. Can you give me a description of it? Also, how much are you looking for it? For the right price, I might be willing to make you a deal.
I've got a foolproof system to lead horses to water., and I have a system to make sure that you NEVER start a land war in russia.
For water it's a lump sum payment, but for the russian-land-war-avoidance, that's a 3 month course and subsequent subscription.
I'm interested in the leading the horse to water system but I'm wondering does your system also get them to drink the water? Very important.
All I know is it's over a week later...and I'm even more confused than when this fucking thing started.
story for me on the Te'o story is not social media, but media in general, and how the media comes to influence peoples opinions and beliefs with such considerations as source and agenda, and what constitutes "truth" and how we as a country/society can possibly believe that we are receiving "truth" from any media outlet regarding content that they have a vested interest in. The take-away from the Te'o story is what you see on TV/Internet/Media may be true, it may not be true, it may be partially true, and it may be false but presented to you in such a method that you would be dubbed inhumane to question even if the content itself is not objectively believable. It put on full display how deficient the channels of mass information and communication are in this country.
But it can't really happen here. The slope is too slippery to avoid devolving into politics at some point. There are a lot of ways that what you're saying is true, and ruthlessly applied to current affairs.
not being able to happen here is part of "it."
But I am but a modest observer, and you are right the slope is very slick. I will not speak another word of it.
One name: Jean Baudrillard. Alright, I better get out of here before being banned for mentioning French critics.
Takes me back to my flirtation with teh po-mo mo-fos.
It's been a long time since I read him, but from what I remember I wasn't all that impressed. His early stuff in the post-Marxist/revisionist Marxist vein was interesting enough, but by Simulacra and Simulation I think he'd gone off the rails a bit. The idea that there isn't any accessible reality beyond representation (signs refer to signs without any ultimately external referents) is silly, IMO.
I blame Kant. The french seem to be perpetually trying to overturn his phenomenal/noumenal distinction, but they go about it the wrong way.
It's funny how many media outlets published a list of holes in the story, yet in two interviews, neither interviewer has followed up with questions on the holes and Te'o has failed to address them. It seems like the PR strategy of "say a bunch of nice, feel-sorry-for-me things over a long period of time and everyone will forget about it" worked.
It's worked on me to be honest because it has become apparent that this story is going to die quickly and the vast majority of people have latched on to the Te'o/ND created narrative. I cared about this story at first because the use of tragedy for media attention really bothered me. I still think Te'o and ND used the death of a girl (fake or otherwise) to hype Te'o for the Heisman and the ND brand going forward. It just seems that mainstream media and the public no longer care about that and have allowed Te'o/ND to dictate the message.
media must salvage the perceived integrity of the story they tell. It is of utmost importance that the consumers of said media believe there to be one objective "truth" and then "the nutjobs that don't believe that official truth." The Teo' story threatened the very core of that narrative and the mainstream media has engage in a weeklong concerted effort to return public perception to the status quo.
While the MSM may step off of the gas for a bit, with the news about a man being the likely voice on the other line I'm pretty sure that, once Roniah Tuiasosopo gets his interview, we are likely to find out one of two things
1) Te'o got fooled by a man pretending to be a woman over the phone for a long, long time, which is going to be hanging over this poor guy's head. In that case, less MSM but a ton of social and other media will be all over it.
2) He didn't get fooled, which opens up the potential for the biggest LGBT outing of the decade (for sports, of all time).
Either way, I'm really feeling sorry for Te'o at this point, even accounting for all the lies and typical ND nonsense.
...if that happens and this story ends up some how outing the first homosexual athlete in the NFL then...wow, that actually is a helluva of a story.
Or 3) that this Ronaiah character is lying, which wouldn't exactly come as a major stretch.
The ESPN/SI contingent has fallen for it, but I don't think the general public has. The majority of people on twitter from what I've seen don't believe Te'o. Even the few that do believe him have to stop calling him niave. The word is stupid. Anyone who believes Te'o also has to believe that there had to be some serious cheating going on at ND for him to survive 4 years there.
He's a liar and a disgrace to football fans. He got all the attention and glory everywhere from his lies and now he is still lying to cover up the original lies.
he's a liar. fantastic. his lie was what? that he didn't immediately confess that he was duped when asked about his non-existent-girlfriend before the bowl game? becaue, i surely would have been waiting for the opportunity to tell the world that i was a giant sucker. moreover, i'm pretty sure that i'd want to avoid the mediafest that would be sure to follow if i disclosed that three days before the bowl game.
or the lie that he exagerrated his relationship with a girl that he believed was dying from cancer and who he believed was drawing strength from their relationship. i can't imagine a more horrifice "disgrace to football fans".
te'o is a naive sucker. but, his lies were pecadillos. they were the sorts of lies that it would be stranger not to tell than to tell. the strange part was that he fell for it. but, he did. and, i have no idea what any of us are entitled to know the first thing about that...
te'o may be an impressive dupe, but he's a pretty lame liar.
"that he didn't immediately confess that he was duped when asked about his non-existent-girlfriend before the bowl game?"
Imagine how long you'd wait if dude really knew it was a dude. Not that there's anything wrong with that.
"Damn, dude, thats a dude, dude!"
Not sure how he was duped when he never went to her funeral or grave or anything, why?
whenever he answers a questions his eyes go away from KC and move down and to the side. Not a sign of high veracity...
What if there was a cake there? Would it be a sign of his high voracity?
Or a hot imaginary girlfriend! Now that he knows he doesn't have to grieve for a dead girlfriend he's on the rebound!
Say what you will, but I would still give Katie Couric a shot at the champ.
/That's kid-speak for have the S with her.
have S with her kid-speak to begin with?
The mere fact that you call making love "Pop-pop" tells me that you're not ready.
how is notre dame plausibly culpable if they didn't create the hoax in concert with te'o? given that it appears that te'o didn't create the hoax, what is their responsibility? nd's hype machine surely played this up, but that's not morally problematic, because they believed it was true. do you think that the michigan/ohio/alabama hype machine would have behaved differently? they were wrong, as it turns out, but that doesn't meant that there was anything remotely under-handed here. what were they supposed to do, investigate it themselves? they had no reason to doubt that it was true.
one of the many aspects of this story that i find absurd is that the social media/blog/24 hour newscycle universe forces people to prove their innocence. te'o has had to prove that he didn't pull the hoax, when there was never any evidence that he did in the first place. now, notre dame has to prove that they didn't do something under-handed when there is literally no evidence of that assertion? more ridiculously, under no account did anything criminal happen here. just something really weird in the personal life of a college linebacker.
i don't think that opposing fan bases think about this subject particularly fairly. imagine that a michigan player was similarly duped (it apparently happened to a handful of nfl players as well). i highly doubt the judgements would be so fast or furious. instead, i imagine there would be outrage that some relatively small exagerrations/lies from the admittedly weird private life of a college football player were used to drag them through the muck, humiliate them and force them to apologize. this is particularly problematic given that those lies were or no consequence and in the context of salacious accusations that were completely unsupported by evidence and have turned out to be mostly false. (i.e. that te'o created the hoax)
Why are you assuming Teo wasn't in on the hoax...because he said so with big sad eyes?
ND and their AD could have just supported Manti, but not taken a position on the "hoax." Instead, they hold a press conference, say they independently investigated and Manti was only a victim. Now it turns out the investigation was beyond lame and Manti didn't know the voice was his close friend acting like a girl?
ND thought they could go with the cover-up and this would all go away, just like the rapes and their thorough "investigations."
1. the assumption of innocence. weirdly, if this were a legal matter these assertions of guilt would seem problematic. given that this is a much smaller thing, its somehow acceptable to assume that he's guilty...
2. hours of telephone records
3. text messages shown to schapp
4. flowers purchased
5. the similar duping of the arizona cardinals fullback about the same girl
6. the reported apology to te'o from the dude that supposedly did this
7. if there was a smoking gun that it would have come out by now. the absence of such a smoking gun increase the odds of a duping.
8. the absence of any evidence whatsoever that he did know
9. he denies it. there is nobody on the other side calling him out on that.
10. the plausible alternative hypothesis that he's just a naive, nice sucker who grew up in an incredibly sheltered, incredibly religious universe in a tiny tight-knit community on an island and who has spent the last 4 years on a similar tight-knit and very small island in northern indiana.
so, there is some evidence that he was not in on it and literally none that he was. why do you assume that he was in on it? what would he have to do to prove himself to you? isn't it profoundly unfair that he has to prove his innocence?
I agree there was a relationship, but probably with his boyfriend.
1. He's innocent...it's not illegal to be gay
2. The calls are real, just to his boyfriend
3. The texts are real, just to his boyfriend or for the cover-up (Lennay)
4. He sent his guy flowers
5. I thought the fullback met the girl in person? How?
6. Boyfriend sends a cover-up apology, big deal.
7. The smoke detector is blaring.
8. Evidence? Why not release the real phone records instead of a summary?
9. He denies it....well, golly, you got me there.
10. He not drooling in the corner, hard to believe he's this dumb.
ok. fine by me. i suspect you're wrong. i know that you have no evidence whatsoever to support your position. feel free to assume the worse of a person on the basis of no evidence whatsoever. that's a lovely standard to apply.
you mocked everything that you couldn't disprove and didn't answer the question about standard of evidence. well done, indeed.
Will you join my poker group?
He lied about meeting this girl (in person) after a game against Stanford, even going so far as to describe her physically and did not correct it when that account was printed in the newspaper.
Unless he has some hallucination creating mental illness or was on psychoactive drugs, he made up a story to further this bullshit long before the "hoax" was exposed.
He never said that they met in 2009 after the Stanford game, that was a fabrication by the Tuiasasopo crew.
The 2009 Stanford stuff is reported to have come from the Te'o family.
I just marked that comment overrated. It felt good on numerous levels.
That account was in the South Bend Tribune. Who do you think their source was?
Doubtful. The gay hypothesis and the storyline of 'Lennay' dying doesn't align very well.
Mike Florio, founder of profootballtalk.com and a lawyer, has written a lot on Te'o and one of his points was that in court once you prove someone has lied about one thing it becomes alot easier to believe they lied about other stuff. I've lost count of how many lies Te'o has told.
Finkle and Einhorn, Einhorn and Finkle, Finkle is Einhorn, Einhorn is Finkle! Einhorn is a MAN!
He found Captain Winkie!
They only part I disagree with is the "will be" boyfriend. There has to be some serious strain on that relationship now. They will be so famous, they will get a name just like Bennifer, TomKat and Brangelina. Hmm, let see: Ro-Ti? ManSopo? Tuia-Te'o?
Your parents taught you to always be there for someone when they need help. That's why you never tried to see your girlfriend even though tragic things kept happening to her over and over.
Every time he talks, he seems like he's half asleep. Either he really is the dumbest person on the planet or he's the best actor in the world, playing the dumb angle to perfection to get out of all the lies he told for so long that drove his hype.
I've been watching and laughing at this story since day one but I don't know if I even want to watch this interview. All the focus is going to be turned into a PSA announcement to show the public how to avoid being victims of an invisible online love interest, when in reality, you won't fall victim to it as long as you have an IQ of over 70.
The puzzle pieces are finally starting to fit. If the person he was talking to for all those hours was his buddy, it makes sense that they would only allow Schaap to view a summary of his phone call records and just the area code. If they released the full number, it would probably just be his buddy's regular and Manti would have known who it was for sure.
I have a hard time believing his good friend could fool him with a fake female voice for hours and hours.
Just come out of the closet, Manti. You already will be treated differently in the lockerroom after this drama.
Manti Te'o Joins Notre Dame's Long Tradition Of Bullshit: http://deadspin.com/manti-te.o/
I hope at the end of her interview she closes with... "Thank you for your time today Manti; now I want to be perfectly clear that just because we sat down and talked today... we are NOT dating!"
Not Buying what you are Selling!!!! If he's that dumb, he shouldn't be able to even pass a basket weaving class.
I can see the NFL combine questions now... "So, Manti... the TE tells you he's not going to run a route, and stay in and block... do you believe him????"
Go Blue, glad we're not trying to defend this Kid... who I am now pissed about actually feeling sorry for in the past!
I PULL MY GIRLFRIENDS FROM THE AIR SOMETIMES SAYIN A-YO I'M MANTI TE'O
I'm no conspiracy theorist whatsoever, but in the voicemails Katie Couric just released today...there's not one mention of "Manti," "Notre Dame," "Football," etc.
These are very generic audio messages.
As anyone who has seen the "Catfish" movie can attest to, it's not hard to manufacture these.
She says "I miss you" a couple times, which, how can you miss someone you HAVE NEVER MET IN YOUR ENTIRE LIFE! I think to "miss" a person you have to have been in the same room at least once.
Purple stuff even though we've never met. Sunny D is all I have in my fridge.
At this point, I'm still on the side that believes that Te'O was hoaxed. Most of the people I talk to about it seem to say "How can he 'date' someone for so long and not even see her? Does he even know what skype is? He never saw pictures of her? How can he fall for a man's voice on the phone?"
Well yeah, maybe for YOU this whole thing sounds absolutely ridiculous and absurd and something that YOU would never fall for. It sounds pretty absurd to me as well. Not many people I know would fall for something like this. But I don't know anything about Manti Te'O's personal life. I don't know what he was raised to believe, what his morals are, what he thinks is right and what he thinks is "dating". It seems like a lot of people think that the reason this all had to happen was because Te'O had some master plan behind it. Maybe he was a 22 year old who did not make wise decisions? Funny how some people can be different and not do something that you may have otherwise done.
What percentage of the college-aged male population would fall for this?
1%? That might be a bit too generous. I'd say closer to 0.5%. Now what are the odds that the one person that this "hoaxer" goes after is in this 0.5%?
Seems pretty unlikely.
a bunch of eagles apparently fell for a similar thing. the fullback from the cardinals swore that the very same girl that he believed that the very same girl that te'o fell for was real...even after being told that she wasn't.
its easy to call people idiots in retrospect.
Actually it was the Redskins, and they didn't fall for it, they caught onto the scheme once the "catfish" didn't show up to in-person meetings.
I mean I'm sure people like Tuiasosopo try this scheme all the time, but most people would realize it's a farce when the culprit keeps cancelling in-person meetings. Most people would realize it's a farce when the culprit's skype "doesn't work." Most people would realize it's a farce by googling the "character's" name.
It's pretty implausible to defend somebody that believes such a person could exist.
the reason that it wasn't inplausbile at the time is because the reality was more increcible than the fiction that te'o believed — who would have believed that somebody who knows you well enough to be able to push your buttons would create a fake online identify, endlessly fake phone calls, send you fake pictures, have fake scriptual exchanges etc.
you have to determine which is more incredible: that somebody would create an entirely fake person, in great detail, just to mess with you or that a person who you've never physically met is real. you have to decide which of these improbabilities is less improbable...and only through the retrospectoscope is that obvious.
furthermore, a huge proportion of our society belives in the literal truth of the bible — improbability is not a good guide to whether people might hold a belief or not.
He can be both the victim of a hoax and someone who lied about what was happening, though.
Te'o is the one who described the meeting that never happened after the Stanford game. Te'o is the one who described this girl as the "love of his life" without ever actually having been in the same room as her, nor has he explained how that could have been possible solely based on some texts/tweets/calls, nor has he explained how this charade could have carried on for three years. Te'o is the one who didn't even consider visiting the "love of his life" at any moment as she got into fictitious car accidents and battled fictitious cancer and was fictitiously kidnapped by fictitious drug dealers.
This stuff sounds like a much bigger hoax than some dude on the internet pretending to be a pretty lady.
He really believed there was a girl out there but also added to the fiction himself out of some combination of shame and a desire for attention and sympathy. Specifically, he lied for attention and sympathy on the weekend of the Heisman ceremony...I believe, arguably, in the worst of both worlds for him: he appears to be both a liar and a dullard.
Even assuming Te'o sincerely believed he was in an important relationship with some chick he never met or saw, his actions/statements are nutty and inconsistent. Either he turned some online chatting into "true love" for media attention or he genuinely fell in love with an empty internet profile but couldn't be bothered to make any effort to contact this special person (nor did he even consider it, if he's to be believed) as she suffered through a series of improbable awful events. Throw in the lying to and/or by his family about the relationship's backstory and you get a lot of shit that doesn't add up.
I find it pretty hard to digest that Te'o is just the one unlucky bastard who lied/embellished about an internet girlfriend who he did sincerely think was real and in a legitimate relationship with him, only to later find out she actually didn't exist at all.
My theory involves him being both a contemptibly lazy boyfriend and a singularly notable dunce, so it very much might be wrong.
It honestly seems like Te'o could have some sort of mental illness. I can certainly understand chatting with someone over the phone or online for a few months. At that point it seems like you would want to meet in person before things progressed any further. If this person constantly makes excuses to not show up and meet you it is time to move on.
Notre Dame: where a Catfish story garners more press/investigation than a rape-suicide story and a possible manslaughter story. They play the houlier than thou shtick more than any entity I've ever seen and it couldn't be further than the truth.
Fuck Notre Dame.
Te'o says in the interview "Yes, I lied, but what would you do if someone brought the subject up?" The problem with that is that he brought it up twice. Chris Fowler asked him at the Heisman ceremony what the most memorable part of the season was, and Te'o told him a story about his girlfriend's death. Fowler did not say, "So, it must have been hard when your girlfriend died."
He could've done what he did after the NC game.... Avoid the question and give an answer to a question that wasn't asked.
He's gay, next story.
1) yes, he's a pretty dumb and repressed kid who hails from a sexually repressed family climate (this makes me sympathetic, others critical); 2) yeah, he milked it and he lied; 3) yeah, ND milked it and yeah the media milked it and no milking it angle is going to be criticized by the media now; and 4) it's a net PR loss for ND anyway and that is good because this level of stupid deserves to be a net PR loss.
I don't care if Teo was "duped" or not anymore...because its irrelevant. He lied and/or embellished the story to further his image in some way, "duped" or not. When you look at what Teo said of the course of the season and the stories written, it's hard NOT to come to that conclusion, hoaxed or not. And the level of "investigation" that ND performed is laughable at best, and totally looks like a transparent attempt at a cover up. Which...when paired with other recent ND stories that were swept under the rug, is not surprising at all. And the media...well, just confirms what I already kinda knew about them. They lack substance and integrity.
Also, I now hate the word "duped". Thanks, internet.
Come on man, Notre Dame investigated it fully. I heard they used Google AND Bing while investigating.
b/c however you spin it, Te'o is pathetic.
I hope the NCAA takes a look at the fact that it appears Te'o had Tom Condon as an agent before the national title game. Also what happened to Swarbrick's claim of multiple people being involved?
Victim of a hoax or not, Manti Te'o has already admitted that he is a serial liar. He's already admitting lying profusely to his family, friends, and the media as a whole. We just don't know the full extent of his lies.
he admitted to lying about two things:
1. he talked abou the "girlfriend" before the bowl game after he suspected she didn't exist.
2. he talked about "meeting her" when he didn't.
any remotely decent teammate would have told lie #1 — it was 3 days before the bowl game and the media circus isn't going ot help your team win. similarly, anybody who was remotely humiliated by the situation (who wouldn't be) would be awfully tempted to tell lie #1.
lie #2 is similarly unimpressive. basically, it amounts to a guy exagerrating (in a pretty minimal way) his relationship with a girl. if you haven't met somebody who has done that, let me know.
he has claimed, and nobody has disproven, that he believed everything else he said about her. he's a sucker. and there is one of those born every minute, but there is no evidence that he is a serial liar. he told two lies, about his personal life which had no consequence outside his personal life, at least one of which is one that any teammate would have told. that's some serial liar. bernie madoff he is not.
Either he told some pretty big lies to his dad or his dad just made up numerous fictitious flights our fictitious girlfriend was taking to meet Te'o in Hawaii. He probably could have also told Notre Dame not to help with stories and go to a fundraiser in the name of his fake girlfriend a month after he found out she was fake. Either Notre Dame was playing it up at that time or Te'o was. Pick which one gets to look like an asshole
1. His dad has said that he elaborated the details of the relationship. He believed, as did everybody, that they had physically met, but he admits to elaborating the story. It isn't an enormous elaboration.
2. He said that he found out in early-December, a month before the bowl game. He told ND shortly after Christmas. If, as he states, he suspected he was duped...I think that I'd cross my fingers and hope that nobody ever figured it out. Of course, he could have done something different, but its awfully hard to see his failure to act as a massive sin. Nobody needed to know that this was untrue — this wasn't a matter or national security, or even of the public interest. It was a private lie that he believed to be true. If we all went on believing it was true, none of our lives would have been the worse...
This is a story of a giant prank that was amplified a thousand times over by the media and abetted somewhat by some relatively minor elaborations by the Te'o family. Its reasonable to believe that they got caught up in the media narrative and fed the story somewhat. That's it. I've yet to hear about a whopper of a lie...other than the one that was sold to Te'o. I've yet to hear the moment where he crossed some moral line that I couldn't easily imagining myself or others crossing in similarly embarrasing circumstances. I've also yet to hear a narrative of who was harmed by these horrible lies.
So his Dad is a liar as well? I guess it runs in the family.
I noticed you skipped over the fundraiser set up for the fake girlfriend. You know, where Notre Dame, weeks after they found out about the "hoax," sent someone to interview the person who set up the fundraiser because the Te'o family wanted them to. That was weeks (and over a month for Te'o himself) after everyone knew this was fake.
I'll skip over that also because you deemed that not a "whopper of a lie." You also seem to think that everyone lying about this, Te'o, his family, Roniah, Notre Dame....you think this is all perfectly normal given the situation? I wasn't even mentioning all his teammates, who said it was well known there was no relationship and Te'o just liked attention. Let me guess, all of them are lying also? Or was it the reporter who took the statements from his anonymous teammates...he was lying, right? How many people are we up to that are lying in this story? By the way, you really suck at thinking logically.
Also, people who have died from actual cancer and people who are living through actual cancer are the ones hurt by all these lies. They have to see their suffering be trivialized by a lying dickhead so he can tug on the heart strings of Heisman voters.
i didn't respond to the fundraiser bit, because i have no idea where that came from. when did it happen? nd states that they found out about the hoax on 12/26. the story broke something like 10 days ago. when was this fundraiser? where is the evidence that Te'o family wanted nd to do anything about it? notre dame is not a single person — where is the evidence that anybody who knew about the hoax had anything to do with the fundraiser?
and, you're simply wrong about Te'os teammates. one anonymous player said that he liked attention. the vast majority, of the many players that have been questioned, have said that they believed she was real. there are several accounts of players saying hi to her on the phone. there is an account of the recruit who was there when he heard that she died and of the hush coming over the lockerroom. similarly, we have the arizona cardinals fullback who believed she was real. and then we have the girl who posed in the photos, who fell for the ply to get her picture. the only remotely critical "evidence" against te'o has been anonymous — one anonymous player and one anonymous deadspin source that was 80% sure that te'o was in on it. that's it for evidence other than the elaborations that te'o has come clean on.
assuming that te'o crafted this huge narrative to bolster his heisman chances and that he is a liar of munchausian proportions, plese take me through the account of how an "actual cancer" patient is harmed by even that lie. i'm sure there are "actual cancer" patients, this very moment, bemoaning not their fate from cancer but the fact that a college linebacker trivialized them. i'm going to get some popcorn.
i think you suck at determing what is a "fact" as opposed to an internet rumor that has spiraled out of control. separately, i'd love for you to take he through my logical failing. please show me the error of my ways.
You should probably read the AP story on it. It wasn't so much a fundraiser as it was a guy who set up a charity for the fake dead girlfriend that Notre Dame sent someone to interview and put the story on their website. Then, the obvious question would be, since Notre Dame found out she was fake in December, why they sent someone to interview the guy weeks later after the NC game (as the guy who set it up did so because of a picture he saw from the aftermath of that ass kicking). The answer would come from a Notre Dame representative who said they sent the reporter at the wishes of the Te'o family. So it wasn't so much that I read it on the Internet so it must be true, it's that a representative from Notre Dame told a reporter who wrote a story about it. Either Te'o wanted to keep lying or the Notre Dame rep is lying.
If you saw this whole situation where the love of someone's life is in a serious car crash and is diagnosed with cancer and you came to the conclusion that it is logical that their boyfriend would never have visited them, let alone seen their actual face while talking to them, I don't know what to tell you. Great logical thinking?
I really love the implication that actual people with cancer shouldn't be insulted at someone lying about how sympathetic they are towards cancer patients after they found out the cancer patient they loved was fake. I'm sure parents and friends mourning the deaths of their loved ones who had cancer are happy a star football player was fake grieving a fake girlfriend after he found out she was fake. I'm sure that is not a slap in the face to people who actually have to deal with the pain of cancer, not just the fake pain of fake cancer.
1. so, an alumunus who knows nothing throws a fundraiser. notre dame sends a videographer. we have no idea who, amongst the hundreds of people that works at notre dame, makes that decision. pretty clearly not all notre dame employees knew about the hoax until the story went public. furthermore, the story does not say what you imply — that the te'o family requested they send the videographer. rather, it says that notre dame wasn't going to say one thing either way about the story until the te'o family spoke. so, yes, you fell entirely for unsubstantiated nonsensical internet rumor. or your'e not very good at critical reading.
2. you then engage in the common tactic of finding the worst possible interpretation of the story in order to drag somebody through the muck on the basis of no facts. i can't make this point enough times — the burden is on those who want to prove that somebody acted in immorally. not the other way around. your argument, ultimately, is that you can't imagine a way that somebody would have said the things te'o said and be a decent person. that, of course, is because you only listen to the part of the story that fits your preconceived notion and make no effort whatsoever to empathize with te'o, who by the simplest factual story is more victim than perpetrator. regardless, "i can't imagine a way that this makes sense" is a statement of your lack of imagination, not a statement of fact.
try, to imagine yourself in te'os shoes for a minute. you are a naive, nice guy. you, belive this girl exists. you feel really awful for her and you feel like you have a connection. you don't really deep down believe that she is the love of your life, but she (who is trying to dupe you) tells you that you ar the love of her life. you respond in kind, because your'e not the kind of jerk who tells girls with cancer that you're not that into them. when asked by reporters, both because it makes you seem like a stand-up guy and because you want to make her feel better, you elaborate...you publicly repeat the "love of your life" statement. that, would be a harmless lie. that would be telling a family member of somebody who recently died that their death was painless, even if it wasn't entirely painless. a lie intended to make somebody feel better. even if it was a lie that was intended to enhance teo's stature, still an entirely harmless lie. the failure here is not my failure of logic, its your failure of empathy. your failure to imagine the circumstances under which one might justly elaborate. you failed, completely, to point out a logical flaw in my account...just a failure of your imagination. te'o didn't go to the funeral, because, he didn't really believe her to be the love of his life. he believed her to be a nice girl he met on the internet, felt connected to and felt sorry for...on this scenario, which is supported by as many facts as your te'o-is-satan scenario, te'o is a nice guy who elaborated. strike him dead! the broader point is that the burden of proof is on those that want to call te'o satan. until you can disprove my te'o-as-nice-guy scenario and demonstrate that your te'o-is-satan scenario is more plausible than this and all other plausible stories, you have judged prematurely and unfairly.
3. the argument that actual cancer patients were harmed by this is more hilarious than anything. if you're dealing with cancer, i'm pretty sure that a linebacker's lies aren't on your problem list. moreover, how, pray tell, did te'o slur cancer patients? even if he was a complete liar, he portrayed cancer as a serious and awful illness. he talked aout how terrible he felt for the girl, etc. he didn't down-play cancer in any way. he actually raised its profile and the public appreciation of its horror. to the extent that he did so falsely it was because he was lied to, not because he was a liar.
moreover, given that was duped, he didn't fake mourn anything...he mourned for real. his "fake mourning" apparently consists of his failure to promptly and completely confess to the fact that he was duped.
finally, imagine that i'm a patient with lung cancer. please tell me a story about how my life is worse off because of te'os story? i can't fathom how this might work. i have lung cancer. a linebacker was duped into believing that a girl he knew from the internet died from cancer. he said that he was really sad about it. i'm outraged because? or, i'm outratged that when he found out he was duped, he failed to do something? what should he have said..."i manti te'o, epic dupe, apologize to any cancer real cancer patient...your disease is very obviously much worse than the non-cancer that my non-girlfriend had. however, it is important that you understand that i believed that the non-cancer my non-girlfriend had was real cancer, even though i might have only believed that she was a very-nice-girl-from-the-internet as opposed to the love of my life"?
anyway, i'm still waiting to hear the narrative about how a person with lung cancer was harmed by te'o statements. take me through it step by step. i have logic issues, as you point out. so please go slowly. but, i believe your argument is a clumsy attempt to try and make te'o statements which were only relevant to his personal life into much greater sins than they are.
I don't know how to put this any nicer: you are a fucking idiot if you believe Te'o and I hope a cancer patient punches you in the face so you feel actual pain instead of the insult they feel when people fake grieve and fake mourn the death of fake cancer patients. Also, go back to Notre Dame boards so you can join in the discussion of how Te'o is vindicated because he didn't submit his phone records but submitted a spreadsheet with his phone calls that I am sure is really real.
where unproductive disagreement on trivial absurdities devolves into incoherent tribal rage!
you'll note that i didn't say what i believe. i have no freaking idea what happened. and neither do you. and that's the point. if we're telling just-so stories, i can tell a te'o is nice just-so story that is just as plausible as your teo-is-evil just so story.
if this were a possible conspiracy to cover up some horrible act, te'o would be innocent until proven guilty. given that we're talking about a harmless lie in his private life, te'o shouldn't have to offer the world anything at all. in spite of that, because of the public presumption of his guilt, he has offered an account of what he believed and a modest amount of circumstantial evidence to support his claim. there is no alternative account supported by anything other than speculation. under the circustances that's good enough for me. if its not good enough for you, the standard of evidence you require would place you at risk of being judged pretty damned lightly. ...your significant other accuses you of cheating because they can't imagine why else you'd come home late from work every night...your story that "work is just really busy lately" just isn't believable to them..."why is it suddenly busy right after you got a new assistant?"...and even though you show them the time stamp on the ticket from the parking garage, that isn't enough. part of the reason that peope are innocent until proven guilty is that its really hard to prove that you're innocent, even when you are.
and, yes, if i meet that cancer patient who is enraged that a linebacker was duped about a story involving cancer and feels that they, as a cancer patient, feel harmed by his dupedom...i fully expect to be punched in the face when they realize that i once, on the internet, defended that linebacker. i'm feeling pretty good about cancer patients...kind of worried about meeting you, though.
Obviously based on your posts, you come down on the ND side of the coin but its a fact that he lied repeatedly to his family which then caused his family to pass along that information in the numerous articles written about her. And then two days after he found out she was "alive" (on Dec 6), he lied again during the Heisman ceremony (on Dec 8) and again during interviews on Dec 10th. The Heisman ceremony is especially bad in that he wasn't asked directly about his GF but responded anyway something to the effect that "when I was told my girlfriend died....." All of those events happened long before the bowl game.
my point all along has been that there are lies: "i had nothing to do with the watergate burglary" and there are te'o's lies. and they are very different things. failing to speak the 100% god's truth every moment of the day is a conversational norm. te'os lies are closer to "yeah, sweetie, you look good in those jeans!" than it is to the sort of thing that we rightfully morally castigate people for. he admitted to not being 100% truthful, but i don't see that as much of an impressive moral failing in context.
based on te'os account, which has been unchallenged, his lies prior to early december consist of stating that he physically met a girl who he had not physically met. here, as he has said, his lie was born of embarrassment — a big hubub was made of his relationship and it would make him look like a (ironically) a liar, a wuss and generally not a very manly man if he admitted that he never even met her. his lies after he suspected that she wasn't real can be understood as trying to protect his team from a mediastorm and as trying to hide his humiliation.
what would you have said in those circumstances? maybe you wouldn't have gotten caught up in the girlfriend narrative, but maybe you would have liked the fact that the media was telling a hero-worship narrative about you and you fell in with it. maybe you would have thought that the hoax was hilarious and you would have come clean. i, for one, would have lied my ass off and prayed to god that nobody ever found out.
context is everything here. who was harmed by the lie? nobody. whose business is it, other than those in your personal life? no one's. how big of a lie was it? not really that huge...he believed he had a "relationship" and he amplified it. then he failed to undo the story when it took on a life its own. these were small lies about his personal life. these are the sort of ies that we tell each other every day and that nobody ever calls to account. i suspect they are the sorts of lies that are beneath virtually every story of heroism...just nobody had the will or means to call them lies in the past. what would have been the consequences of coming clean? he would have provided a huge distraction to his team and guaranteed enormous scrutiny on him...instead, he rolled the dice and did what i would have done — prayed that nobody would find out.
that isn't the context that accompanies a massive moral failing. that's the context of a tremendously naive 22 year old caught up in something that took on a life of its own. the moral failings of those who reported on this are far worse than te'os.
It's really too bad that the media have turned this into a circus. Ultimately, a college kid got pranked. And the prankster did a world-class job. Many of the same people who routinely watch shows like Punk'd are suddenly indignant and surprised when a very clever young man decides to "try this at home."
Years ago, when people could laugh whenever they wanted to, this would have been seen as really funny. Now, we see nothing but outrage. Any outrage should be directed at the media for creating the angle they have used for this story.
Imagine how the story would have been had a more responsible media decided to treat it as a harmless prank instead of calling a college kid's character and/or intellect into question.
At it's core, it's really just a prank. Yet, it's kind of a ponzi scheme of pranking too. Teo got duped, media gets duped, fans & bystanders get duped. Damn near everybody duped & embarrassed and now half the world has their panties in a bunch about.
Thing just blew up and someday everybody will laugh about it.
You can't be serious.
I'll wire you $500K tonight. All you need to do is give me your routing number. Whattya say?
Let's assume Te'o is the victim of this Tuiasosopo character's elaborate prank. What was the payoff? To make Te'o play better when eventually inspired by the death of his imaginary girlfriend?
Was this all to embarass Te'o? If so, why didn't Tuiasosopo simply inform the media long before Deadspin, and before the national title game, when it would have been a bigger, more disruptive deal?
Pretending to be some dude's internet girlfriend for 3 years and then saying, "Oh, I'm dead now." without informing anyone of the super long ruse is a really shitty prank. Pranks don't last this long or end this way. They just don't.
Agreed....pranks are TPing the trees or filling dorm rooms with styrofoam peanuts. If Te'o was duped by this guy Tuiasosopo, Tuiasosopo is a mentally ill MFer.
To use the Punk'd example someone mentioned above, where was the Punking? Pretending to be someone's girlfriend for three years (which I imagine takes a lot of work), making that person fall in love with you without ever meeting (which according to Te'o is what happened), then faking the imaginary girlfriend's death, which receives massive publicity and then...telling nobody about it, including the guy you played this awesome "prank" on.
Yeah, that makes a whole lot of fucking sense. Sounds like we should totally believe that the guy we all know is lying and has lied in the past is being totally honest about the parts of the story he swears he isn't lying about any more and just move on.
This is exactly the sticking point for me. What's the motivation? What did he get out of it? If he was blackmailing Te'o, then that would have come out already, for sure. Why would Te'o hide that?
Like you said, you don't pull a prank on someone and then keep it a secret. It just doesn't make sense to me at all.
I'm not saying the "Te'o is gay" theory is necessarily the correct one, but I'm pretty sure the one Te'o is going with isn't either.
Mantei needs some advice about the need to always inspect these anatomical areas when in doubt:
1. Adams apple
4. CROTCH AREA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Shoulders. Unless she's a dedicated competitive bodybuilder, that's usually a dead giveaway.
My girl actually bought me that sweater he has on in the interview for Christmas.
As "your girlfriend"?
The thing that I can't understand (aside from everything else about this story) is why Te'o would have ever responded to "her" of all "people." He has been a high-profile player for years, and must get random tweets all the time from hot (based on their thumbnail pic) women. Was it because she had a Hawaiian-sounding name?
Katie is asking some great questions. Manti looked a bit sad after she brought up the gay angle and the audience laughed.
He is simply the most naive person I have and will ever encounter in my whole life.
You'll have to define that for us.
Whoops, typo. My english teacher would be irate right now. Thanks!
Actually, I didn't even notice the grammatical issue. I was trying to make a Te'o joke (i.e., did you literally encounter him, or did you meet him over Twitter, or...oh fuck it).
when everyone (not just ESPN, I am talking about you CNN, MSNBC, Fox, etc) are so obesessed with the romantic snafoo of a 20 year-old kid. Come on CNN, can't you (expletive) cover something like -ohh, I don't know - Syria, Mali, Algeria, North Korea threatening us with nukes, Afghanistan, Iraq? This is really beyond ridiculous. Who the (expletive) cares whether some college kid was duped online by some dude. It really baffles me how much attention this is getting. A blip, fine, just because it was made into a big deal, the (fake) girlfriend dying, affecting his game, etc, etc, but come on news providers. I guess I should not be surprised by the likes of CNN when that trashy lady Kardashian's bump is one of the major headlines. BBC World and Al Jazeera (surprisingly) are the only decent news shows actually delivering local (national) US news and news from around the world.
I highly recommend not watching major American news outlets.
I pretty much don't, other than the PBS News Hour. I have CNN turned on in the morning when I am preparing lunch but it is mostly for background noise. In general, I find most American news outlets the opposite of good, on par with the NY Post. I remember when CNN actually had good coverage of national news and international news. But these days, CNN spends its time either reporting on the likes of Kim Kardashian or beating a dead horse, by which I mean covering the same story (i.e. Treyvon Martin, the CT school shooting) for an entire week and getting every talking head's opinion, as if there was nothing else of importance happening in the US or the rest of the world to report on.
In both of the threads I started, I tried to turn the attention away from how stupid/deceitful/dumb/gay Manti Te'O may or may not be, and on to the issue of whether this can be made into a Notre Dame PR scandal.
Who the (expletive) cares whether some college kid was duped online by some dude. It really baffles me how much attention this is getting.
You're right. I don't care. I'm trying to figure out if Notre Dame can take the big hit in all of this.
I'll totally believe Manti was in on the hoax as long as someone can explain to me:
1. How you have a gay relationship with someone you've never met? If the theory is this was all a cover of him being gay with Tuiasosopo then how do you explain him never having met him until late November 2012? The only person pointing to them having a pre-existing relationship is the one unnamed Deadspin source who said they "were family" (which shows she obviously had no clue what she was talking about) "or at least family friends" (according to both sides completely untrue).
2. If this is a hoax for publicity, how did they mastermind this elaborate scheme starting back in 2008? Just walk me through how you would go about planning this with someone you don't know.
3. Explain why in either of the above scenarios Tuiasosopo would've also hoaxed AT LEAST 5 other people as reported by ABC. If this is all a cover for being gay or a part of a big publicity stunt plan, why is he hoaxing other people as Lennay?
4. Explain why Te'o would try to check out this person within the Polynesian community if he was complict and wanted to keep this going as a cover. Wouldn't you, in fact, want to draw as few questions as possible to your cover?
5. Explain why dozens of people have come forward after the story broke saying that Tuiasosopo either confessed to them or that Manti was not in on it or that they were hoaxed by "Lennay" or a combination.... but there has not been a single named on the record source with firsthand knowledge at any point that has said Manti was involved.
If you can answer those five questions, I'll believe whatever you want. But some of you want sooooooooooo badly for Te'o to be "in on it" you're willing to believe whatever conspiracy theory you want that Te'o MUST be involved. It's sickening.
The obvious, simplest answer is that Te'o got hoaxed and then lied a bunch after the fact. See how few crazy explanations and rationales are needed to justify that? SMH.
The notion that he "lied a bunch after the fact," though, is not small...And while I agree with you generally, you have to admit it's strange that he didn't make any effort to see her before she (as far as he knew) died.
Yep he is gay.
The NYT liveblog is here and still updating with commentary actually.
They did a pretty thorough job of breaking this down, right to his reactions to various questions. It's a pretty good read if you want to go with an extensive summary of the interview rather than look for the video itself, especially since it seems only to appear in select snippets at the moment .
Just from reading their summary, it would appear that that there was at least some focus on the timing of the story versus when Te'o discovered that Kekua was not real, and they note that the question made Te'o visibly uncomfortable.
It also appears that he was in the Bay Area at one point with the team when Lennay had lukemia, but when asked, he simply claimed that he couldn't bring himself to ask about being allowed to visit. Not sure what to make of that, but if this was someone you were in love with, why not ask?
The opinions overall were pretty blunt on the NYT blog - for example: "Te’o isn’t doing much to come off as intelligent or mature. He actually said “I had my doubts” about Kekua and the leukemia twist, but veered off to say that he talked to a friend’s mother who was a cancer survivor and that made him understand what Kekua was going through."
In any case, for those who did not see it - like me - the basic gist appears to be here, but it is not without opinion inserted, of course.
He's either a blatant liar or the the worst boyfriend in the history of ever.
Neither of those is a good place to be.
NFL players respect bad boyfriends
There are still enough ways to prove/disprove the current narrative that someone will take the time to investigate. Te'o has delivered pieces of proof and they seem a concoction of the last week or so.
Enough people are conspiracy theorists and investigative hobbyists that someone will dig even further.
Deadspin shouldn't let this lie - they quoted folks of "80% sure Te'o was involved" and alluded to his continuing the hoax. Where are they now?
NFL execs won't invite Katie to their interviews. They'll hire PIs and others to determine if Te'o lies to them.
For over a week now. What have they turned up? A landslide of evidence backing up Manti's story and NOT ONE SINGLE PERSON with firsthand knowledge to say he was "in on it." Nor a single shred of evidence implicating him.
The people Deadspin quoted have backed off their claims because they had no idea what they were talking about. One said "I'm 80% sure Manti must've been involved" as conjecture because he "didn't think Manti was dumb enough"... so not based on any evidence or fact, just his opinion.
The other source stated "Manti and Ronaih are family"... which is just flat out wrong. "Or maybe family friends"... something both the Te'o's or Tuiasosopo's have said isn't true.
So you had two people talking out of butts and speculating and discredited. But of course, you don't care. Because you want Manti to be in on it. So you'll just ignore everything else out there and stick to your conspiracy theories. That's your perogative.
Te'o's angle for this story, whether true or not, may be technically possible, but not exactly plausible. We have been in an age of technology for 15-20 years. Just how the hell does Te'o come to date someone for 3 years without ever having used Skype/factime/Google hangout with "her"? Nobody is THAT naive. I cannot be expected to believe that.
The sheer amount of inaccuracies in this thread by posters who have their minds made up is crazy. It's well established they "dated" for only a couple months starting in the spring of 2012 until September of 2012 when she "died." Before that it was an occasional tweet or facebook message or call at most. From 2008 to 2012 there are at least 5 people who have come forward saying they were the victim of a similar hoax by "Lennay Kekua".
I corrected a mistatement. He only told his parents he "met" her in 2009 as a lie to explain how he knew her... that's the only reference to that. It has aboslutely no bearing on their contact level/relationship. The timeline is really simple if you actually look it up. They only "dated" from spring 2012 to her "Death" in Spetember. The post I repleid to said they dated for 3 years. That's what I corrected. So where am I wrong?
Dude, surely you have something better to do than troll a Michigan blog and try to convince us that Te'o is completely innocent in this. We can be innaccurate whether it is because we are dumb, want ND to look foolish, don't like Te'o, didn't read everything, etc. because we are not journalists. We are average people consuming what the media and Te'o put out there for us and we are understandably confused and question how this happens in today's media age.
I understand that you will go to bat for ND and the individual players, but you are wasting your time on here. People either have their minds made up or are understandably skeptical of the whole story. I personally do not know what to believe because what started as a tragic love story, evolved to a hoax Te'o was in on, to a hoax he was not in on, to 3 people hoaxing him, a guy impersonating a women's voice, there was a drug dealer in there somewhere, people had met Lennay in person, etc. It goes on and on and is intriguing, but pointless. Don't act surprised when people don't take your Somoan hero at face value when it is clear that Te'o lied and played up the relationship to the media. That much we know to be true.
Nobody was hurt (phsyically) and no laws were broken (that we know of) and simply put ND looks pretty dumb (per usual) and Te'o is at the least, very niave. So, whatever.
I never should've come on here. I haven't been on here since I created an account to talk lacrosse about Michigan's new team last year. That discussion went a lot differently. I'm obviously not going to change anyone's mind and that's fine... so time to check out of this topic.
I have been married to a lovely woman for ten years, though she lives at a distance and we have never met in person. We have four children via awesome phone sex. I talk to her once a week and I send her 50% of my net pay to support the kids. It is a nice arrangement.
Early on, an Arizona Cardinal former teammate (assuming Floyd) said that he saw Te'o multiple times with this "girlfriend". Other teammates said the same thing. He himself said that he met her after a Stanford game. So which truth or "story" is he going with this time? And even if he was seen with a girl, how does he explain to people that the girl in the "picture" doesn't match the person standing before him and/or others? Sorry, but I'm not buying the hoodwinked scholor athlete.
It was a polynesian fullback with no Notre Dame ties. Who knows what he meant or who he was referring to.
It's already been well established that he lied to parents about meeting her at Stanford and they're the ones who spread that story to the newspapers.
Is every single post where you correct someone who has their facts wrong or present anything that doesn't say "whatever I don't care what he says he was in on it" or "whatever he's gay" gets immediately down voted.
I was directed to this thread by a bunch of Michigan engineers I work with... none of whom think Manti was in on it because they've actually paid attention to what has come out since the initial Deadspin article and we talk about it daily in the office. They told me the message board world was still thoroughly convinced he was in on it. I asked why and they said they want him to be in on it so nothing that comes out will change theirs minds.
The logic that "well, I think his story isn't plausible so he MUST be in on it" makes no sense. Our legal system doesn't work that way for a reason. It's darn near impossible to prove a negative. As an experiment, trying proving he was in on it. Try proving the other side you want so badly to believe.
How did he concoct this thing starting 2008 with someone he didn't know and had never met until November 2012? Why is there not a single person with first hand kmowledge who has come out on record and said they think he was in on it? Why has there not been a single piece of evidence uncovered so far implicating him in it with all of the digging that is going on? How do you explain the other 5 people hoaxed by Lennay from 2008 to 2012? How do you have a gay relationship with someone that you need to create a cover for if you've never met them until November 2012?
A large chunk of you already have your minds made up and that's your perogative. I hope at least a small portion of those who want to believe he was "in on it" take a step and try to be intellectually honest. You can still have your cake and eat it too... as Manti is clearly liar who lied about certain aspects of the relationship both during and after all of this... so he can still be a bad dude and shithead in your book.
But whatever, this is probably a waste of time as I'm sure this will just get downvoted and hidden too because it doesn't follow your desired narrative.
It is nearly impossible to prove from my living room. But boy does it smell fishy. I have to squint hard to see a world where a heterosexual stud linebacker at a major university wastes three years with a fictional woman when there are thousands of real women who want him. I could, however, see an engineering student in this situation.
If he spent 4 months on her instead of 3 years? Because that is how much time they were "dating" according to every news source out there. In the time preceding April/May 2012 and after September 2012 he has had real girlfriends.
But as a Mormon he can do just as much with his real girlfriends as a fake one... nothing at all until he is married.