MGoBender

July 21st, 2012 at 5:20 PM ^

It's not "asinine."  A player's place in the order does have a mental aspect to it.  But more importantly:

Raburn batting with Cabrera behind him usually means that Raburn will get some good fastballs to hit.  Raburn has the pop to put a poorly thrown fastball over the fence (unlike the guys as the bottom of the order who are either left-handed or have little power).

EDIT: Also, I wouldn't be surprised to see Q replace Raburn at some point, in which case you'd want him in the #2 slot.

Vivz

July 21st, 2012 at 5:20 PM ^

Its also about refusing to swap Delmon/ move up Jhonny. By that logic i'd rather one of them there. Delmon as much as i can't stand him has been good against lefties, and would do same thing there. 

And seriously since i disagree its flamebait?

MGoBender

July 21st, 2012 at 5:24 PM ^

You can disagree, but you don't have to do so in a sophomoric manner by saying "Jim Leyland has an assinine attachment..."

Fact is, there are reasons for not moving those guys up.  Sure, there's an argument to make to move them, but there's another sound argument the other way.  You can disagree with either without saying the other is assinine.

You want Delmon protecting Fielder.  That's a given - he's really the only major power thread the Tigers have outside of Fielder and Cabrera.  So then it's a matter of moving Peralta up or not.  If you move him up, you kill the bottom half of your order and you take away any protection for Delmon.

Could you imagine Delmon trying to hit with nobody behind him?  I don't think he'd ever get a fastball.

Vivz

July 21st, 2012 at 5:28 PM ^

You're marking me as flamebait because i use "asinine" instead of something else like "stubborn"? I would think with delmon his power is against lefties i can buy youre argument. But If not platooning him, he should at least slide down vs righties. His recent hot streak has been against a ton of lefties. If you move Jhonny up you would have to move someone else down so i don't quite buy the destroying bottom of the order. 

MGoBender

July 21st, 2012 at 5:35 PM ^

A: I'm not marking you as flambait.  I marked your original "assinine" comment as flambait, and that's it.  Other people are also doing that.  I'm not holding some little agenda here.

B: Holy shit, someone just called that Boesch homer!

C: Leyland (and most managers) want power threats, not just average guys, behind you're big guns to counter IBBs with potential multi-run homers.  Regardless of their success this year (Jhonny's hitting for the same average with half the homers BTW), Delmon has the proven track record re: homers.

Vivz

July 21st, 2012 at 5:39 PM ^

A) Fair enough on that one, the other leyland lovers need to grow up then. 

B) Yep

C) I can agree with that, but what about the lefty/righty splits? If the averages are close that makes sense, but there is a pretty big difference (Delmon .258 BA  .643 OPS vs righties and  Jhonny .285, .756) 

MGoBender

July 21st, 2012 at 5:44 PM ^

Trying to get inside Leyland's head here...

As much as we all know Leyland is a firm believer of righty/lefty matchups, we also know he is a fan of the long ball.  I go back to the power argument.  I think Leyland prefers the more significant upgrade in power to be behind Fielder as opposed to the smaller upgrade in average.

I tend to agree with that argument for the reason I mentioned above.  If someone walks Fielder with the bases empty or first base empty I want the next guy to be able to make them pay with one swing of the bat.

And the final point again, is Delmon is too much of a free swinger to have much success without a decent hitter behind him. 

Vivz

July 21st, 2012 at 5:53 PM ^

But DY hasn't really been more of a power threat this year vs RHP then Jhonny. They both are at ~220 ABs vs RHP which is a decent sample size (not tiny) and Jhonny has a better SLG% 416 vs 356 along witha better AVG and OBP. Thats why i had included the OPS.

ILMichFan70

July 21st, 2012 at 4:51 PM ^

However it will be interesting to see how his hand affects him for the rest of the game. The bullpen is very young and has been struggling as of late.

WMUgoblue

July 21st, 2012 at 4:54 PM ^

Wonder when Sale's innings will finally catch up to him. He's ridiculously good, but I wonder when he'll start to get tired. Keep it up Rick and let's get some offense going boys.

Ultimate Quizmaster

July 21st, 2012 at 5:07 PM ^

I was driving through Chicago a few weeks back and there were signs screaming about how they were leading the division and needed fan support.

Chris Sale good, but it's just one of those rookie pitcher phenomenons; though I admit he is better than Hellickson and Chacin before they came back to earth.

ILMichFan70

July 21st, 2012 at 5:16 PM ^

This is Chris Sale's third year. He's been in the league since 2010 so he's not a rookie. However it is his first year as a starter since he was in college. He was drafted in 2010 and entered the league in 2010 as well. He was always strong out of the bullpen but everyone here has been pretty surprised the way he's been as a starter. I think it's tough to assume he's only going to be good this year.

Phil Brickma

July 21st, 2012 at 5:11 PM ^

Anyone have any idea what happened to Sale? I saw that he tried to field a ball with his pitching hand. I saw that they looked at him and had Axelrod warming up, but that was the last I saw. Any update on that?

Also, Ricky looks fantastic today. Ricky is just as inconsistent as Max. We need to see more Good Ricky.

Also, in honor of "Give him the heater, Ricky," I give you the best of Lou Brown.

WMUgoblue

July 21st, 2012 at 5:21 PM ^

He sets the table, there's no coincidence this team struggled a bit when Jackson went on the DL. Miggy has been incredible but Jackson has been a consistent force all season and his defense is 2nd to none. I think your point is valid but I think AJ has still been the MVP to this point.

snarling wolverine

July 21st, 2012 at 5:30 PM ^

The Tigers are certainly better with Jackson than without, but that doesn't make him more valuable than Cabrera.  It's not like Cabrera went on the DL when Jackson came back.  They have both in the lineup now.

Cabrera leads the AL in hits and is not too far away in HR and RBI, and his OPS is off the charts.  Plus, he has a knack for clutch hitting.  It seems like he's had a ton of 2-out hits lately.

WMUgoblue

July 21st, 2012 at 5:35 PM ^

Like I said its a valid argument to make that Miggy is an national MVP candidate but Jackson production out of the lead off spot has been great. .313, 10 knocks, 40+ RBI and has really come into his own. People were complaining (rightfully so) that our biggest need was a lead off hitter, well guess what he have one.

I guess I kind of expect Miggy to put up these kinds of numbers every year because he's going to be a 1st ballot HOF'er, where Jackson's production has been a monumental surprise.

Vivz

July 21st, 2012 at 5:22 PM ^

Especially when AJ was on the DL for a while and Q did an admirable job filling in and earned staying up here. If Cabrera went down we don't have someone who could fill in like that.

ckersh74

July 21st, 2012 at 5:25 PM ^

Tim McCarver as one of the best color analysts ever? John Madden's career has nothing on him?!? Jesus H. Christ dipped in barbecue sauce.

Gawd, imagine if Cabrera had a #2 hitter in front of him.