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OT: Tigers sign Rajai Davis

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December 10th, 2013 at 12:34 PM
#1
Moleskyn
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Joined: 06/28/2010
MGoPoints: 5343
OT: Tigers sign Rajai Davis

Tigers have signed OF Rajai Davis to a two-year deal, in the range of $9-10 million ($4-5 million/year). Here's a link to his stats page. And a summary from MLB Trade Rumors:

Davis, 33, hasn't played in an everyday role for the Blue Jays over the last three seasons, but has seen enough action to rack up nearly 1,200 plate appearances, recording a .252/.299/.369 slash line. The speedster has also added 125 stolen bases over that period. That batting line may not be particularly impressive, but his .297/.363/.455 line against left-handed pitchers dating back to 2011 certainly is.

Not a blockbuster signing, but I like it. He's got good speed, can hit for average, and looks to be about an average-to-below average fielder. I think this could turn out to be a good signing.

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December 10th, 2013 at 12:36 PM
#2
Willy Wonka
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Joined: 01/21/2012
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He's

Better than Dirks.

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December 10th, 2013 at 1:31 PM
(Reply to #2) #3
Cold War
Joined: 01/15/2012
MGoPoints: -3537
The team is unquestionably

The team is unquestionably weaker where it sits now.

Kinsler/Infante is a wash, and we're losing two big sticks (Peralta and Fielder, no matter how disliked they were) and replacig them with a completely unproven rookie at third and a light hitting shortstop. The rotation is definitely weaker with out Fister.

There is a slight upgrade to Nathan in the pen (Benoit was actually pretty damn good) but it doesn't begin to offset where we've regressed.

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December 10th, 2013 at 1:33 PM
(Reply to #24) #4
wolverine1987
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Joined: 07/07/2008
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So far.

I completely agree with you, but I doubt the Tigers are done adding players. It's also woirth noting that some baseball guys disagree with us.

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December 10th, 2013 at 1:39 PM
(Reply to #24) #5
MaizeAndBlueWahoo
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Most of the critics talked

Most of the critics talked about nothing but how bad the infield defense was and how slow the team was in the field and on the basepaths, and how bad the bullpen was.  DD apparently decided they were right.  I realize you may not have been one of them, but finding a guy with Peralta's bat and Iglesias's glove costs $18 million.

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December 10th, 2013 at 2:17 PM
(Reply to #24) #6
Syyk
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Joined: 01/26/2009
MGoPoints: 2023
I would have liked to see

I would have liked to see them add another big bat (particularly Choo), but it's clear they didn't want to take on anymore large contracts at the moment. However, theyr'e revamping the roster away from a power-hitting lineup, to one with better defense, more speed and better baserunning. That suites CoPa better than the more stationary lineup they had before.

But to address your arguments... Kinsler/Infante is not a wash. Infante had a career year (or clsoe to it) last season. He has a career .721 OPS and has hit more than 15 HRs once in 12 seasons. Kinsler has a career .804 OPS and has hit over 30 HRs twice. In fact he has over twice as many career HRs (156) than Infante (74), in four fewer seasons. He also steals far more bases than Infante. Yes, Kinsler has had a down couple of yaers, but even then his numbers are better than Infante's (with the exception of last year). I like Infante a lot, but to argue that he was anything other than an average 2B offensively is silly.

Peralta is certainly a loss offensively, but I think a lot of Tigers fans overrate his 2011 and forget just how dysmal he was in 2012. He bounced back in 2013, but we're looking at a guy with a career .755 OPS and some nice pop for a SS. While not a defensive liability, he was losing significant range as he got into his 30s. Iglesias is a huge defensive upgrade over him, and still an extremely young and raw hitter.

The loss of Fielder's power certainly hurts, but hopefully it can be made up for with the improvements in defense and speed. This team is built completely differentlly than the Tigers of the past. They're going to be manufacturing a lot more runs, and hopefully the defense will save a lot of runs, too. I thikn Porcello will particularly be helped by it.

They really need to sign a few more arms for the bullpen, though. I'm hoping for Jesse Crain, at least.

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December 10th, 2013 at 2:53 PM
(Reply to #24) #7
umchicago
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Joined: 02/05/2009
MGoPoints: 16158
agree

but a platoon of dirks/davis may put up pretty good #s; very choo-like, for a fraction of the cost.  now, if DD goes out and gets a lefty hitter that can poke 15-20 HRs, i think the team is pretty much set to start the season.  the O will be down a bit, but the D will be much improved.  once the season unfolds a bit, DD will likely go out and fill any holes.  just my two cents.

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December 10th, 2013 at 3:13 PM
(Reply to #41) #8
umchicago
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Joined: 02/05/2009
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lefty free agent bats

kendrys morales (swith hitter) - price might be a bit too high; raul ibanez - perhaps a one-year deal for a chance to play for a winner.

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December 10th, 2013 at 3:44 PM
(Reply to #46) #9
Syyk
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Joined: 01/26/2009
MGoPoints: 2023
Where is Morales going to

Where is Morales going to play, though?

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December 10th, 2013 at 1:49 PM
(Reply to #2) #10
MaizeAndBlueWahoo
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MGoPoints: 32946
Two players with normalized

Two players with normalized 600-at-bat seasons from their 2013 numbers:

A: .256-12-51, OPS .686.  Career BA .276, career OPS .745, career FP .986

B: .260-11-44, OPS .687.  Career BA .268, career OPS .693, career FP .986

Obviously one is Davis and one is Dirks.  Other than the basepath speed, why is one so obviously better than the other?

The answer is that Tigers fans seem to always hate what they have and want what they don't have.

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December 10th, 2013 at 1:59 PM
(Reply to #27) #11
5starrecruit
Joined: 01/19/2013
MGoPoints: 79
You just said it, the

You just said it, the basepath speed. 

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December 10th, 2013 at 4:13 PM
(Reply to #33) #12
MaizeAndBlueWahoo
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Let's face it though: I know

Let's face it though: I know that's not what was specifically said here, but when people complain about Dirks, foot speed is not usually why.

The platoon is probably a good idea, and Davis will be very useful in PR situations, but hopefully people aren't expecting him to be an upgrade at the plate, except to the extent that the platoon does that.

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December 10th, 2013 at 2:19 PM
(Reply to #27) #13
Syyk
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Joined: 01/26/2009
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But, I don't think they're

But, I don't think they're replacing Dirks with Davis. They're going to platoon them. Davis hits lefties far better than righties, and provides significant speed on the basepaths and steal potential. If Dirks can be more the player we saw in 2012, I actually really like this platoon.

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December 10th, 2013 at 3:47 PM
(Reply to #39) #14
umumum
Joined: 01/06/2011
MGoPoints: 4481
I think you are being nice

by saying you don't think they will platoon them---platooning Davis and Dirks is the obvious intent.  Two decent full-time players may well make one very good full-time player.

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December 10th, 2013 at 12:41 PM
#15
Schembo
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Joined: 01/06/2011
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I like the signing.  It's

I like the signing.  It's hard to believe how radically different this team is from last year.  The lack of power makes me nervous and there's alot riding on Martinez and his ability to protect Cabrera in the lineup.

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December 10th, 2013 at 12:45 PM
(Reply to #3) #16
ijohnb
Joined: 09/21/2009
MGoPoints: 51841
The

Tigers will have the same amount of power as they did last year, they will just be paying $20 million or so less per year for it.

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December 10th, 2013 at 2:56 PM
(Reply to #5) #17
umchicago
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Joined: 02/05/2009
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huh?

not true w/o fielder and peralta.  that said, i like their replacements for the improved D.  the fister deal still confuses me though.

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December 10th, 2013 at 12:47 PM
(Reply to #3) #18
not TOM BRADY
not TOM BRADY's picture
Joined: 06/02/2012
MGoPoints: 23254
Protections

Protection is a myth. Just one of many stories. Here's proof of the tigers situation. http://m.espn.go.com/general/blogs/blogpost?blogname=sweetspot&id=42494&...



Hopefully the link works. Posting from phone.

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December 10th, 2013 at 1:19 PM
(Reply to #7) #19
Schembo
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Joined: 01/06/2011
MGoPoints: 5394
Good article, thanks for the

Good article, thanks for the link.

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December 10th, 2013 at 2:58 PM
(Reply to #7) #20
umchicago
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Joined: 02/05/2009
MGoPoints: 16158
not really

it may be true regarding Cabrera, but a team is much better off having a good hitter behind a cabrera so he can drive in 100+ runs and make a team pay for walking him.

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December 10th, 2013 at 12:48 PM
(Reply to #3) #21
goblue20111
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Joined: 10/31/2010
MGoPoints: 7208
We have enough power.

We have enough power. Comerica isn't the kind of park where you want guys who can't hit for average or get on base. That's been a problem with this team for too long. 

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December 10th, 2013 at 1:01 PM
(Reply to #10) #22
BlueinLansing
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Joined: 09/01/2009
MGoPoints: 16425
I don't know

I thought it was pretty obvious we missed Peralta's power the last 50 games of the season.

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December 10th, 2013 at 3:10 PM
(Reply to #15) #23
BlueRaines
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Joined: 12/10/2009
MGoPoints: 702
Like when they won 14 games in a row without

Like when they won 14 games in a row without him?

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December 10th, 2013 at 5:39 PM
(Reply to #45) #24
BlueinLansing
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Joined: 09/01/2009
MGoPoints: 16425
was thinking

more like when they went 20-27 after that 14 game streak in August and September., and hit the second fewest homers in the AL during September.

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December 10th, 2013 at 9:39 PM
(Reply to #53) #25
MGoBender
Joined: 03/26/2010
MGoPoints: 14933
Which is when Miggy hit... 0

Which is when Miggy hit... 0 homers.

(Maybe 1, I forget.  But you get my point).

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December 10th, 2013 at 2:13 PM
(Reply to #10) #26
turtleboy
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Joined: 04/22/2011
MGoPoints: 17692
Completely agree. I've always

Completely agree. I've always been mystified by Illitch building the ultimate ballpark for fielding and average, then consistently building teams that focus on power.

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December 10th, 2013 at 1:11 PM
(Reply to #3) #27
coldnjl
Joined: 12/31/2009
MGoPoints: 12625
this actually suits them

this actually suits them better for their home park....speed, defense, and line-drive power plays well in this park and will give them a slight advantage vs. many teams...an advantage that they didn't have last year...

I guess this means that the Choo deal is dead

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December 10th, 2013 at 12:44 PM
#28
not TOM BRADY
not TOM BRADY's picture
Joined: 06/02/2012
MGoPoints: 23254
He's

He is going to platoon with Dirks or maybe someone else's. Davis crushes left handed pitching.



I would like to see the tigers to trade for Domonic Brown. Wouldn't come cheap but the team still needs a left handed bat.

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December 10th, 2013 at 1:02 PM
(Reply to #4) #29
BlueinLansing
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Joined: 09/01/2009
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He can play

all 3 fields so he'll give Jackson and Tori rests when they need it as well.  Not to mention a nice PR option.

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December 10th, 2013 at 8:34 PM
(Reply to #16) #30
DK81
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Joined: 02/11/2012
MGoPoints: 3233
This will be huge for days we

This will be huge for days we rest Hunter.

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December 10th, 2013 at 2:12 PM
(Reply to #4) #31
Michigan4Life
Joined: 07/29/2010
MGoPoints: 16372
Platooning works

Dirk against righties and Davis against lefties.  You maximize both players value.  Look at the A's, they pretty much platoon a lot of players and they were successful last season, winning the division.  Yes, they lost to the Tigers in the playoff because Tigers have better pitching.  Tigers will still have better pitching in the playoff with JV, Max and Anibal (all essentially aces).  If they can improve the production and depth from the roster as whole, the Tigers should be a better team in the long run with less money on the book.

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December 10th, 2013 at 12:47 PM
#32
LiveFromAA
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Joined: 07/30/2013
MGoPoints: 1479
Yep, more role-playing

Yep, more role-playing outfielders are exactly what this team needs.

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December 10th, 2013 at 12:47 PM
#33
WMUgoblue
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Joined: 12/06/2009
MGoPoints: 12142
He's pretty bad against

He's pretty bad against righties so obviously Dirks still looks to get more AB's but Davis is a perfect platoon partner, and pinch runner. Now time to get to work on the bullpen Dombrowski.

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December 10th, 2013 at 4:46 PM
(Reply to #8) #34
Prince Lover
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Joined: 07/01/2013
MGoPoints: 12108
Couldn't agree more

Not a bad signing, not great, but solid. But in order to feel good about this season, DD needs to address the bullpen. With the weakened lineup, he needs to assemble a staff who can protect their smaller leads.

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December 10th, 2013 at 12:47 PM
#35
LSAClassOf2000
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Joined: 01/07/2011
MGoPoints: 81317
I Like This...

I like this signing as well, just perusing the stats page at Fangraphs. Perhaps most notably, I like the idea of having someone who can get on base and is a realizable threat to steal a base or two. I don't think we've had someone like that for a while in the lineup - it is a nice added dimension to any offense. 

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December 10th, 2013 at 12:49 PM
#36
a2_electricboogaloo
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Joined: 04/21/2011
MGoPoints: 9219
He stole bases on about 40%

He stole bases on about 40% of his hits.  So 40% of the time he gets a single, it becomes a double.  That could be huge for getting RISP for Miggy and VMart.

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December 10th, 2013 at 12:51 PM
(Reply to #11) #37
the Bray
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Joined: 06/29/2009
MGoPoints: 922
80% success rate?

If he steals them at an 80% success rate, then 8% of his singles become outs.

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December 10th, 2013 at 12:58 PM
(Reply to #12) #38
a2_electricboogaloo
a2_electricboogaloo's picture
Joined: 04/21/2011
MGoPoints: 9219
I'd gladly sacrifice 2

I'd gladly sacrifice 2 singles to get 8 doubles (out of 10 that is).  Especially from a guy like him, who can score on most hits outside the infield if he's on second base.

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December 10th, 2013 at 3:21 PM
(Reply to #13) #39
umchicago
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Joined: 02/05/2009
MGoPoints: 16158
depends

batting at the top of the order or on base with no outs, he better steal at a higher rate than 80% to make it worthwhile.

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December 10th, 2013 at 1:07 PM
(Reply to #12) #40
scottmaure
Joined: 01/03/2011
MGoPoints: 175
Added bonus

When on base he's probably. The biggest distraction in baseball. Helps hitters a lot. Very underrated signing.

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December 10th, 2013 at 12:53 PM
#41
scottmaure
Joined: 01/03/2011
MGoPoints: 175
Jays fan here

Take it from....I hate that the Jays let this guy walk. Down a run in the 8th or 9th and with him pinch running it was a given he'd be on 2nd and almost a lock that he'd be in 3rd. I believe he leads MLB in steals of 3rd the past 4 seasons and was 2nd to Ellsbury in total SB's last year with far less playing time. Great signing.

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December 10th, 2013 at 1:12 PM
#42
UofM Die Hard i...
UofM Die Hard in Seattle's picture
Joined: 03/10/2011
MGoPoints: 4698
Tigers

are makig solid moves..cutting pay but keeping world series type team in tact.  Sucks to lose Prince but it was the right move.

 

Great moves, looking forward to seeing this team gel.  

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December 10th, 2013 at 1:15 PM
(Reply to #19) #43
a2_electricboogaloo
a2_electricboogaloo's picture
Joined: 04/21/2011
MGoPoints: 9219
I've liked pretty much every

I've liked pretty much every move we've done this offseason, except for the Fister one.  I understand it most likely had to be done, but I think we should have gotten some better prospects than what we got for a player of his caliber.

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December 10th, 2013 at 1:49 PM
(Reply to #20) #44
UofM Die Hard i...
UofM Die Hard in Seattle's picture
Joined: 03/10/2011
MGoPoints: 4698
ahhh forgot

about that Fister move...ya that one irked me a bit. I like Fister, agreed that we should have got more for him.

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December 10th, 2013 at 10:49 PM
(Reply to #28) #45
Cold War
Joined: 01/15/2012
MGoPoints: -3537
He was worth a good everyday

He was worth a good everyday outfielder. Anything less, keep him. Still shaking my head.

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December 10th, 2013 at 1:49 PM
(Reply to #20) #46
ppudge
Joined: 10/19/2008
MGoPoints: 6672
I agree with this. In

I agree with this. In Dombrowski I trust, but I really think he undervalued Fister, who is a solid #2 on a lot of teams.

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December 10th, 2013 at 1:56 PM
(Reply to #20) #47
maize-blue
maize-blue's picture
Joined: 01/10/2013
MGoPoints: 30120
Yup. That seemed to be a

Yup. That seemed to be a lopsided trade. I think most estimated Fister as one of the top 30 pitchers in all of baseball.

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December 10th, 2013 at 3:07 PM
(Reply to #32) #48
umchicago
umchicago's picture
Joined: 02/05/2009
MGoPoints: 16158
agree

i just don't understand the rush to trade fister.  i think he could have got a lot more had he waited for the winter meetings (going on now) got multiple offers and took the best deal at that time.  i doubt there was a rush on the guys we got in return.

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December 10th, 2013 at 1:25 PM
#49
SalvatoreQuattro
SalvatoreQuattro's picture
Joined: 11/30/2010
MGoPoints: 39920
Meh. Tigers offense will be worse as will

the starting pitching. Bullpen and defense will be better. This team isn't any better or worse overall. A lot of moves to remain basically the same team quality-wise.

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December 10th, 2013 at 1:29 PM
(Reply to #22) #50
coldnjl
Joined: 12/31/2009
MGoPoints: 12625
and your point??? This team

and your point??? This team got to the finals the last few years with their past build, yet never advanced and lost to teams who had many qualities more comparable to this team. Their is still money available, so lets see what they will do before judging. Staying the same would have been the worst thing of all.

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December 10th, 2013 at 1:53 PM
#51
maize-blue
maize-blue's picture
Joined: 01/10/2013
MGoPoints: 30120
Not a big power guy.

Not a big power guy. Would 20-25 HRs combined with Dirks be a close estimation?

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December 10th, 2013 at 1:55 PM
(Reply to #30) #52
not TOM BRADY
not TOM BRADY's picture
Joined: 06/02/2012
MGoPoints: 23254
No.

More like 15-18.

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December 10th, 2013 at 2:00 PM
(Reply to #31) #53
maize-blue
maize-blue's picture
Joined: 01/10/2013
MGoPoints: 30120
Hmm.. Well, hopefully those

Hmm.. Well, hopefully those numbers will be good enough.

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December 10th, 2013 at 2:06 PM
#54
Naked Bootlegger
Naked Bootlegger's picture
Joined: 01/28/2011
MGoPoints: 15407
Q Berry, but more

Q Berry brought so much energy to the team 2 years ago.   Sure, we rode his wicked hot streak for a month or two, but I miss his legit base-stealing threat.   Davis seems like Q. Berry with more plate consistency, esp. against lefties.   If he's defensively sound, then I'm on board (I admittedly haven't paid much attention to the Jays over the past few year).

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December 10th, 2013 at 2:50 PM
#55
French West Indian
French West Indian's picture
Joined: 12/28/2011
MGoPoints: 1840
Excellent.

They needed another outfielder.  Probably still need bullpen help but that can be such a crapshoot that teams almost have to tinker with it on an on-going basis during the season.

It'll be very interesting to watch the Tigers next season with the changes in personel & new manager.  It might sound odd but my biggest concern is that they push too hard during the season and then run out of steam in September or October.

The 2011-13 versions of the Tigers seemed to learn that they playoffs are a crapshoot and that they simply needed to qualify (instead of dominating regular season).  Given that they made the "final four" during those seasons, it seemed to work.  Verlander, in particular, seemed to be pacing himself last year before turning it up in the playoffs.

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December 10th, 2013 at 3:43 PM
#56
bronxblue
Joined: 11/22/2008
MGoPoints: 59111
I really like this trade.

I really like this trade.  Detroit was slow and full of defensive liabilities last year.  This year, they'll give up some power but that outfield should have significantly better range as well as (I hope) some improved baserunning.  Going station-to-station like this team needed to last year really hurt, especially in the playoffs.  Davis isn't going to set the world on fire, but any guy with that type of speed will keep pitchers honest and can be disruptive even if his OBP is pretty meh.

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December 10th, 2013 at 6:48 PM
#57
ca_prophet
ca_prophet's picture
Joined: 09/07/2010
MGoPoints: 3147
Davis is not a bad signing but he doesn't make us better

I was really hoping for Shin-Soo Choo, and would have gladly ditched our collection of misfit toys (Davis, Dirks, Kelly) to do so.

The problem with building around defense is that it's inherently less valuable than offense.
1. Every hitter gets 3 guaranteed chances to affect the game with his bat, but they don't have to hit it to you.
2. The range of defensive talent is constrained at a given position because most fielding chances can be handled by even the worst major leaguer. Basically, too many chances are routine, so having superior talent doesn't pay off because you get so few chances to make a difference. You get that grounder to short right field so seldom compared to routine pop ups and watching the pitcher strike a guy out.
3. Defense is less valuable than offense unless you score a lot (basketball), because you can't win a game without scoring. In hoops, the value of a denied possession is practically equal to a converted possession, because the average score is in the sixties. In baseball, taking away runs is not as good as scoring them because you can't win -1 to zero.

Trading defense for offense in baseball is usually a lose unless you're way out on the margins. The Tigers look to be worse overall this year unless they add another bat, and now there's no room for Choo.

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December 10th, 2013 at 9:46 PM
(Reply to #54) #58
MGoBender
Joined: 03/26/2010
MGoPoints: 14933
Normally, I would agree. 

Normally, I would agree.  Hitting is much more important than defense.

However, there's something to be said for building a team with more balance.  Last year we were the epitome of a long ball team.  We relied on the 3-run homer, which is what you should do with the lineup we had.  Problem was Fielder disapeared completely in the playoffs and for much of the second half.

Speed doesn't disappear like the long-ball can, so I like having a little more balance.  Especially with the ballpark we play in.

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